Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box

[DeathAndTaxes]

I noticed on Butterfly labs' website that they say that they're collecting sales tax for all US orders...

They have to mean in the states they have a presence (likely put that language in there in case that changes in the future).

BTW. Not all states even have a sales tax so collecting in all 50 states is impossible even if you did have a Nexus in all 50.

[testerx]

I noticed on Butterfly labs' website that they say that they're collecting sales tax for all US orders...how can that possibly be right?

I find that hard to believe.  The big guys don't do it so why would a little guy piss his customers off doing it?

That's why I'm asking if they're actually charging people sales tax like this.  Their pre-order form claims that they do for all US orders:
http://www.butterflylabs.com/pre-order-form/ (at the very bottom)

It's especially weird since anybody who's mining as a business (i.e. reporting your mining income) would be deducting their mining hardware purchases but when reporting their state income taxes for their mining business you'd have to have paid *your* state's income taxes.  Which would be handled by the filer.  They really shouldn't be charging sales tax on anything except Missouri sales especially since they're a pretty small vendor.  

[SgtSpike]

It's especially weird since anybody who's mining as a business (i.e. reporting your mining income) would be deducting their mining hardware purchases but when reporting their state income taxes for their mining business you'd have to have paid *your* state's income taxes.  Which would be handled by the filer.  They really shouldn't be charging sales tax on anything except Missouri sales especially since they're a pretty small vendor.

Say what?

If you buy an asset and pay sales tax on it, that doesn't exempt you from paying income tax on the revenue it generates.  Neither does generating revenue and paying income tax exempt you from paying sales tax on business expenditures.

I'll agree with you that they shouldn't be charging sales tax for anywhere but the state they reside in though.

[Tamerz]

I noticed on Butterfly labs' website that they say that they're collecting sales tax for all US orders...how can that possibly be right?  You'd have to have a business presence in all 50 states to be required to collect sales tax in all 50 states, and you'd have to remit sales taxes to 50 different states for which you'd need to have 50 sales tax certificates.  Unless they're actually sending sales taxes to 50 different state tax boards plus calculating the tax rate for every county in all 50 states they're breaking the law.  You can't just charge Missouri sales tax on an interstate transaction.

For people who ordered, what sales tax rate did they charge you?

I asked them this same question and this was the response:

Code:

Just to Missouri.

Kind regards,
Sonny K
BF Labs Inc.

[RandyFolds]

I noticed on Butterfly labs' website that they say that they're collecting sales tax for all US orders...how can that possibly be right?  You'd have to have a business presence in all 50 states to be required to collect sales tax in all 50 states, and you'd have to remit sales taxes to 50 different states for which you'd need to have 50 sales tax certificates.  Unless they're actually sending sales taxes to 50 different state tax boards plus calculating the tax rate for every county in all 50 states they're breaking the law.  You can't just charge Missouri sales tax on an interstate transaction.

For people who ordered, what sales tax rate did they charge you?

Technically, they only need to collect sales tax for states in which they have retail presence, or in which they operate.  I don't know why they are collecting sales tax for all 50 states.  The government is trying to change the laws so that sales taxes would have to be collected for all states even for online sales, but last I checked, they had not come close to pushing that through.

But yes, if they are collecting sales taxes for all the states that charge a sales tax (even though they don't have to), they'd better be submitting those taxes to those states or they'll be heftily fined!

Are they even a registered entity? Last I heard, their wyoming registration had gone delinquent, and you can't collect sales tax without a resale permit.

[Buckwheet]

I want to know why their shipping is $34. They sent them out in USPS boxes(but didn't use USPS as the shipper), and based on the dimensions USPS flat rate large boxes could be used for a flat cost of $15.50. This does not include the online purchase price discount or if they actually implemented using the new USPS regional rate boxes which are just as large and can cost quite a bit less then the flat rates depending on where the end location is and how heavy the overall package is.

If they are willing to sudo abuse the postal service for free boxes, then they should purchase a used UPS zebra printer for $99 and then order the free thermal labels from UPS to print your USPS postage on. Not to mention, you can then use Paypal's shipping software to print in bulk to the thermal printer.

I just can't believe they would stuff $20 worth of shipping materials into the boxes.

[Inaba]

Insurance.

[Buckwheet]

Insurance.

Shipping a large flat rate box with online purchase of the insurance and the postage costs: $22.80.

If they used Regional Rate B boxes which are 12" x 10-1/4" x 5", which should fit the box according to their website specifications: $16.33.

Edit: The regional rate costs would change based upon where they are sending them. But they should almost always be cheaper than the flat rate, and if not then..go flat rate.

[P_Shep]

Beer money.

[DeathAndTaxes]

They wouldn't be the first company too bad shipping costs.  Hardly a sin.

Isn't it funny shipping costs are always either too high or too low?

I can get a 60" HDTV delivered from Amazon for $0 shipping and sometimes a fan on newegg can have higher shipping cost than purchase price.

[Buckwheet]

They wouldn't be the first company too bad shipping costs.  Hardly a sin.

Isn't it funny shipping costs are always either too high or too low?

I can get a 60" HDTV delivered from Amazon for $0 shipping and sometimes a fan on newegg can have higher shipping cost than purchase price.

I think their shipping was $24 before and they raised it. Yeah its not a sin, it just strikes me funny when businesses in general publish their shipping rates and because I am an online retailer I know they are just full of it. They imbed their margins into shipping costs.

[SgtSpike]

They wouldn't be the first company too bad shipping costs.  Hardly a sin.

Isn't it funny shipping costs are always either too high or too low?

I can get a 60" HDTV delivered from Amazon for $0 shipping and sometimes a fan on newegg can have higher shipping cost than purchase price.

I think their shipping was $24 before and they raised it. Yeah its not a sin, it just strikes me funny when businesses in general publish their shipping rates and because I am an online retailer I know they are just full of it. They imbed their margins into shipping costs.

Every company does that.  Often times, it's because it also includes the wages/labor hours used to package, any packaging materials, cost of boxes, etc.  And then some extra to pad the revenues.

[Buckwheet]

They wouldn't be the first company too bad shipping costs.  Hardly a sin.

Isn't it funny shipping costs are always either too high or too low?

I can get a 60" HDTV delivered from Amazon for $0 shipping and sometimes a fan on newegg can have higher shipping cost than purchase price.

I think their shipping was $24 before and they raised it. Yeah its not a sin, it just strikes me funny when businesses in general publish their shipping rates and because I am an online retailer I know they are just full of it. They imbed their margins into shipping costs.

Every company does that.  Often times, it's because it also includes the wages/labor hours used to package, any packaging materials, cost of boxes, etc.  And then some extra to pad the revenues.

$15-$20 just seems a bit excessive for one product when if you ordered 10 the shipping rate is the same.

And no, not every company does it to this extent.

[SgtSpike]

They wouldn't be the first company too bad shipping costs.  Hardly a sin.

Isn't it funny shipping costs are always either too high or too low?

I can get a 60" HDTV delivered from Amazon for $0 shipping and sometimes a fan on newegg can have higher shipping cost than purchase price.

I think their shipping was $24 before and they raised it. Yeah its not a sin, it just strikes me funny when businesses in general publish their shipping rates and because I am an online retailer I know they are just full of it. They imbed their margins into shipping costs.

Every company does that.  Often times, it's because it also includes the wages/labor hours used to package, any packaging materials, cost of boxes, etc.  And then some extra to pad the revenues.

$15-$20 just seems a bit excessive for one product when if you ordered 10 the shipping rate is the same.

Maybe that's how their method of giving a bulk order discount to people?

[cablepair]

I want to know why their shipping is $34. They sent them out in USPS boxes(but didn't use USPS as the shipper), and based on the dimensions USPS flat rate large boxes could be used for a flat cost of $15.50. This does not include the online purchase price discount or if they actually implemented using the new USPS regional rate boxes which are just as large and can cost quite a bit less then the flat rates depending on where the end location is and how heavy the overall package is.

If they are willing to sudo abuse the postal service for free boxes, then they should purchase a used UPS zebra printer for $99 and then order the free thermal labels from UPS to print your USPS postage on. Not to mention, you can then use Paypal's shipping software to print in bulk to the thermal printer.

I just can't believe they would stuff $20 worth of shipping materials into the boxes.

lol, no offense but you are a cheap, cheap man arent you?

[malevolent]

This is a common practice to earn a bit on shipping, sometimes the seller lures the buyer with a low price only to get it all back with expensive shipping..

[fred0]

I find it incredible to believe that BFL is making so little that they are enhancing their margin using shipping costs.

[bulanula]

I find it incredible to believe that BFL is making so little that they are enhancing their margin using shipping costs.

They must be since they are selling 4k chips for 0.6k or at least that was what some of the educated people were guessing about the chips used

[SgtSpike]

I find it incredible to believe that BFL is making so little that they are enhancing their margin using shipping costs.

Why does it matter how much they make as to whether they want to enhance their margin using shipping costs?

[fred0]

I find it incredible to believe that BFL is making so little that they are enhancing their margin using shipping costs.

Why does it matter how much they make as to whether they want to enhance their margin using shipping costs?

Well, they are not selling thumb drives, these are $600 devices.  If you want these shipped bulk rate, then be my guest.