Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box

[BlackPrapor]

Hmmm, for some reason moderators moved all FPGA topics into subforum, except BFL thread, but moved "BFL scam" thread nontheless. I smell skunk here...

[cablepair]

lol they are probably getting ready to delete it because of all the off topic stuff (sorry) 

[kano]

Well ... have BFL created a thread anywhere yet?

[cablepair]

Well ... have BFL created a thread anywhere yet?

dont think so

[WhitePhantom]

Well ... have BFL created a thread anywhere yet?

dont think so

I get the impression that they mostly see Bitcointalk as a place people go for entertainment purposes; not to do business.  I don't completely agree with that viewpoint, but I'd guess it's why they haven't participated here much.

So...Anybody have a rig box order in place?  It looks like a sweet machine, no?

[antirack]

So...Anybody have a rig box order in place?  It looks like a sweet machine, no?

I have cancelled my order when I was asked to pay the remainder of almost $20k on Feb 24, after I had already made down payment of $5k (for which I have already received a refund). Delivery time was said to be "a comfortable 8-10 weeks", so we should see something happening at around end of April or beginning of May. On the other hand, I understand that there is no prototype so things could turn out to take much longer than that.
 
The price went up to $28,980 (in that email), so for a difference of $4k or even $5k I was not willing to take the risk and pay for a product that may or may not see the light of day, or at least not with the promised specs. Honestly, I expect them to run into a few problems but if it shows up and works as expected, the rig box is back on the table.

Goat said he knows somebody who placed an order for 2 rig boxes, but I guess that's what they call hearsay. Not sure if his contact actually paid the remainder.

Even if they didn't get any pre-paid orders for the Rig Box, they should have earned some money with the singles and should be able to produce at least one or two.

[Matthew N. Wright]

So...Anybody have a rig box order in place?  It looks like a sweet machine, no?

I have cancelled my order when I was asked to pay the remainder of almost $20k on Feb 24, after I had already made down payment of $5k (for which I have already received a refund). Delivery time was said to be "a comfortable 8-10 weeks", so we should see something happening at around end of April or beginning of May. On the other hand, I understand that there is no prototype so things could turn out to take much longer than that.
 
The price went up to $28,980 (in that email), so for a difference of $4k or even $5k I was not willing to take the risk and pay for a product that may or may not see the light of day, or at least not with the promised specs. Honestly, I expect them to run into a few problems but if it shows up and works as expected, the rig box is back on the table.

Goat said he knows somebody who placed an order for 2 rig boxes, but I guess that's what they call hearsay. Not sure if his contact actually paid the remainder.

Even if they didn't get any pre-paid orders for the Rig Box, they should have earned some money with the singles and should be able to produce at least one or two.

Agreed.

[kunibopl]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist. you can think of it as a very aggressive marketingstrategy, but it isn't honest.
moreover it's funny they show even a picture of the rigbox. the thing on the picture is smaller than a PSU for 2500W.
but the most striking aspect is: why should the rigbox have a better performance in terms of hash/W?
they would need to use different chips. why not use these for the single?
it's just not credible.
I would be very astonished, if a rigbox with these specs sees the light.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist.

On that note, I announced the Bitcoin Magazine before we even had the flatplan figured out. Is that dishonest or just over-zealous?

I'm actually asking. I personally think Butterfly Labs was over-zealous and they've already learned their lesson (as have we btw).

[kunibopl]

ok, but you don't charge 30k$ for your magazine, that hasn't been printed :-)

[antirack]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist.

On that note, I announced the Bitcoin Magazine before we even had the flatplan figured out. Is that dishonest or just over-zealous?

I'm actually asking. I personally think Butterfly Labs was over-zealous and they've already learned their lesson (as have we btw).

I am not sure if you have previous experience with publishing a magazine (not just editing or writing a story or two). If you had, you'd probably added a bit of buffer here and there, or would have vaguely stated "coming in 2012" with the option of releasing it much earlier. Or having no competition at all, you may even have opted to not announce it until you were sure things are properly in place and only a few weeks away.

Lets stick with your business as example to draw parallels to the "matter on hand". If you would have competition, I could see why you would want to claim it's coming in a few weeks. If you wouldn't have money to finance printing and editorial staff, I could also see why you would want your customers to send you money in believe it's coming in a few weeks. If you would have to convince a printing company or other supplier in the background that you are a trustworthy company and hence print or deliver with payment terms (or deliver at all), I would also understand why you would create a web site with "imaginative" products and claim to have a lot of experience and customers in the "scientific" field. And if you would see this all as big stunt that may or may not work out, I can also see why you would hide your identity from the public and not take a personal risk. I'd definitely not want to send you more than a few Bitcoins (as I did, as a matter of fact).

[Matthew N. Wright]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist.

On that note, I announced the Bitcoin Magazine before we even had the flatplan figured out. Is that dishonest or just over-zealous?

I'm actually asking. I personally think Butterfly Labs was over-zealous and they've already learned their lesson (as have we btw).

I am not sure if you have previous experience with publishing a magazine (not just editing or writing a story or two). If you had, you'd probably added a bit of buffer here and there, or would have vaguely stated "coming in 2012" with the option of releasing it much earlier. Or having no competition at all, you may even have opted to not announce it until you were sure things are properly in place and only a few weeks away.

Lets stick with your business as example to draw parallels to the "matter on hand". If you would have competition, I could see why you would want to claim it's coming in a few weeks. If you wouldn't have money to finance printing and editorial staff, I could also see why you would want your customers to send you money in believe it's coming in a few weeks. If you would have to convince a printing company or other supplier in the background that you are a trustworthy company and hence print or deliver with payment terms (or deliver at all), I would also understand why you would create a web site with "imaginative" products and claim to have a lot of experience and customers in the "scientific" field. And if you would see this all as big stunt that may or may not work out, I can also see why you would hide your identity from the public and not take a personal risk. I'd definitely not want to send you more than a few Bitcoins (as I did, as a matter of fact).

I honestly haven't followed -every- detail. Did they hide their information? (I seem to remember some idiot asking for a bounty for a photo of their ID or something)

[triplehelix]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist.

On that note, I announced the Bitcoin Magazine before we even had the flatplan figured out. Is that dishonest or just over-zealous?

I'm actually asking. I personally think Butterfly Labs was over-zealous and they've already learned their lesson (as have we btw).

in my opinion announcing is fine, accepting full payment and missing delivery by months then potentially doing the same thing with a second product, while in the same vein, elevates from over-zealous to dishonest.

in short, it comes down to how far behind you fall before you deliver.  bfl's not delivering in quantity their first product, and asking for full payment of a $30k second product still 2months from delivery, is really pushing the line into the dishonest/unethical business practices area.

its one thing to have customers money fund manufacturing ramp up, its another to string them along and have them pay for prototyping, testing and waiting months for the "privilege".

[kakobrekla]

I find it strange to advertise products, that don't exist.

On that note, I announced the Bitcoin Magazine before we even had the flatplan figured out. Is that dishonest or just over-zealous?

I'm actually asking. I personally think Butterfly Labs was over-zealous and they've already learned their lesson (as have we btw).

-BFL lesson: keep fake delivery time online to keep orders/money pouring in.
-buyers lesson: order rigbox asap as their delivery is fucked - it will already take months to get it.

[rjk]

LESSONS LEARNED:

Under promise, over deliver - NOT the other way around. Someone send a note to all those new startups now please.

[DiabloD3]

LESSONS LEARNED:

Under promise, over deliver - NOT the other way around. Someone send a note to all those new startups now please.

Nope, over promise, under deliver, then jack up the price massively for the second gen product while all the people with the first gen products masturbate on their blogs with it

[RandyFolds]

LESSONS LEARNED:

Under promise, over deliver - NOT the other way around. Someone send a note to all those new startups now please.

Nope, over promise, under deliver, then jack up the price massively for the second gen product while all the people with the first gen products masturbate on their blogs with it

Aaaaaand, finally, we have a succinct summary of BFL's business practices.

[DiabloD3]

LESSONS LEARNED:

Under promise, over deliver - NOT the other way around. Someone send a note to all those new startups now please.

Nope, over promise, under deliver, then jack up the price massively for the second gen product while all the people with the first gen products masturbate on their blogs with it

Aaaaaand, finally, we have a succinct summary of BFL's business practices.

I was describing Apple, actually.

[Matthew N. Wright]

LESSONS LEARNED:

Under promise, over deliver - NOT the other way around. Someone send a note to all those new startups now please.

Nope, over promise, under deliver, then jack up the price massively for the second gen product while all the people with the first gen products masturbate on their blogs with it

Aaaaaand, finally, we have a succinct summary of BFL's business practices.

I was describing Apple, actually.

[bulanula]

I doubt anyone would fork over the 30K to get a Rig Box at this uncertain moment.

They may have delivered for the Singles but people are still complaining about them being very slow with this.

Might still be a long con so stay cautious I would say.

Myself, I eagerly await the moment gigavps got his Single but this time with the Rig Box if possible.