[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[thefix]

Not going to list or get in fights about all the things wrong with Java, there is vast amounts of information already available on that.

Regarding the floor,  I guess it depends on the rate of dumping by the dumper.

Many other factors to consider as well--- not just a single digger

Remember the Millions of coins that have not been claimed yet

We could see many more large diggers very soon or down the road.

People have to decide if they want to take the risk of supporting future large diggers.

Or, what if there isn't really any..  maybe just a bunch of lost forgotten addresses? 
Could be a very limited supply then, of clam.

Could be, it just depends on your tolerance for risk

[thefix]

Sorry for the giant post, but there's too much to reply to here...

Making a new coin and leaving CLAM rules unchanged does seem the fairest way to proceed. Then the people who didn't hear about CLAM yet will still have CLAM waiting for them when they finally do hear about it.

Maybe as BAC suggested we should take any discussion of "doogcoin" off this thread, like how discussion of "Bitcoin XT" was moved away from BTC forums - since it really isn't anything to do with CLAM, other than using a snapshot of the CLAM blockchain for its initial distribution.

I took a snapshot of the JD database just as CLAM block 730000 was staked. As the first multiple of 10k after the idea was proposed this seems as good a point as any. Having the snapshot point be in the past prevents any manipulation by people buying CLAM just to increase their initial allocation of "doogcoin". I checked the Poloniex charts and it appears there was no unusual trading before that point.

I know this is kind of off the table for now, I am just curious how quickly you could implement this if you found the need?

[rocoro]

Sorry for the giant post, but there's too much to reply to here...

Making a new coin and leaving CLAM rules unchanged does seem the fairest way to proceed. Then the people who didn't hear about CLAM yet will still have CLAM waiting for them when they finally do hear about it.

Maybe as BAC suggested we should take any discussion of "doogcoin" off this thread, like how discussion of "Bitcoin XT" was moved away from BTC forums - since it really isn't anything to do with CLAM, other than using a snapshot of the CLAM blockchain for its initial distribution.

I took a snapshot of the JD database just as CLAM block 730000 was staked. As the first multiple of 10k after the idea was proposed this seems as good a point as any. Having the snapshot point be in the past prevents any manipulation by people buying CLAM just to increase their initial allocation of "doogcoin". I checked the Poloniex charts and it appears there was no unusual trading before that point.

I know this is kind of off the table for now, I am just curious how quickly you could implement this if you found the need?

Hmmm... couldn't large investors  / holders (at the time of the snapshot) just dump that new coin down also?  

I don't see how that's a great solution.

[thefix]

Sorry for the giant post, but there's too much to reply to here...

Making a new coin and leaving CLAM rules unchanged does seem the fairest way to proceed. Then the people who didn't hear about CLAM yet will still have CLAM waiting for them when they finally do hear about it.

Maybe as BAC suggested we should take any discussion of "doogcoin" off this thread, like how discussion of "Bitcoin XT" was moved away from BTC forums - since it really isn't anything to do with CLAM, other than using a snapshot of the CLAM blockchain for its initial distribution.

I took a snapshot of the JD database just as CLAM block 730000 was staked. As the first multiple of 10k after the idea was proposed this seems as good a point as any. Having the snapshot point be in the past prevents any manipulation by people buying CLAM just to increase their initial allocation of "doogcoin". I checked the Poloniex charts and it appears there was no unusual trading before that point.

I know this is kind of off the table for now, I am just curious how quickly you could implement this if you found the need?

Hmmm... couldn't large investors  / holders (at the time of the snapshot) just dump that new coin down also?  

I don't see how that's a great solution.

I am mostly just interested in how quick it could happen not so much about right or wrong. It would all sort out with people using it or not much the same way people are voting for clam now with $$$

[smooth]

Don't you wonder that CLAM still goes down, even when the digger has revealed himself?

Being caught in a marketwide downdraft means something. Almost every coin is down today except NMC and RBY.

BTC up, pretty much everything else down.

[dooglus]

All I can say is THANK YOU digger for fucking up a great coin. Now you can dump as much as you want.

If you were a bit smarter, you could have profited 10x more from CLAM but I guess greed really conquers all.

I understand that you're mad about the price dropping, but I don't think your two sentences make sense together.

The digger had a certain large amount of CLAM to dig. He wanted to sell it all. If you're right that he could have profited 10x more, that means he could have taken 10x more value from us CLAM holders. Wouldn't that have fucked up the coin more? We would end up having bought the same number of CLAMs from him, but having paid 10x more for them. How is that good for us?

I know this is kind of off the table for now, I am just curious how quickly you could implement this if you found the need?

I think that if it ever came to the point that I felt I had to stop using CLAM at Just-Dice, it would make more sense to use an established more stable coin (like BTC (but don't tell uvwvj)) and simply put a cap on the bankroll size to avoid things getting out of control like they did before.

We're not near that point now. I just don't think it's worth the hassle of making a new coin, setting up a block explorer, petitioning to get it listed on exchanges, having to listen to attacks from all the people who disagree with the arbitrary choice of initial distribution, and all that stuff that goes along with making a new coin.

[freedomno1]

All I can say is THANK YOU digger for fucking up a great coin. Now you can dump as much as you want.

If you were a bit smarter, you could have profited 10x more from CLAM but I guess greed really conquers all.

I understand that you're mad about the price dropping, but I don't think your two sentences make sense together.

The digger had a certain large amount of CLAM to dig. He wanted to sell it all. If you're right that he could have profited 10x more, that means he could have taken 10x more value from us CLAM holders. Wouldn't that have fucked up the coin more? We would end up having bought the same number of CLAMs from him, but having paid 10x more for them. How is that good for us?

I think the pacing is what would be more important, that said is the Clam Whale almost done digging yet the price is low enough that at this stage a fast dump is a lot better than a slow prolonged one.

[dooglus]

I think the pacing is what would be more important, that said is the Clam Whale almost done digging yet the price is low enough that at this stage a fast dump is a lot better than a slow prolonged one.

He's done digging, apparently. But not done selling.

And when you say "better", better for who? It's a zero sum game. Better for the digger means worse for the rest of us, doesn't it?

[rocoro]

I think the pacing is what would be more important, that said is the Clam Whale almost done digging yet the price is low enough that at this stage a fast dump is a lot better than a slow prolonged one.

He's done digging, apparently. But not done selling.

And when you say "better", better for who? It's a zero sum game. Better for the digger means worse for the rest of us, doesn't it?

I guess its' all how you look at it,  some people are seeing it as a chance to load up on more clam.

For every sell there is buys. 

[Hippie Tech]

That scam site is still showing on your sig and we have yet to hear how or why you were paid and/or if you have been deleting posts.

[SuperClam]

That scam site is still showing on your sig and we have yet to hear how or why you were paid and/or if you have been deleting posts.

"That scam site" is nothing more than a gateway/advertising page when I checked when you first brought it up.

I will pull out the older laptop and get the login credentials when I have a secondary reason to do so.
At the moment, I have better things to do.

I haven't deleted any posts except those I have referenced in this thread, and often even quoted them before they are deleted.

Your questions have been repeatedly answered.
My patience with your trolling is growing thin, Hippie Tech.

[jaysabi]

Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

He did not admit to where it was from, but suspicions seem to be that it was a wallet used for cheating faucets.

I missed or do not understand this part of the story. What is the allegation as far as cheating faucets goes?

[seedtrue]

Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

He did not admit to where it was from, but suspicions seem to be that it was a wallet used for cheating faucets.

I missed or do not understand this part of the story. What is the allegation as far as cheating faucets goes?

A I wrong in assuming most of these addresses were funded from faucets originally? When the digging started I had analyzed a few of the addresses, and that is the conclusion I came to. Looking over the 2 addresses you signed, I am still under the same assumption.

I won't say, but wouldn't it be so sad if I was just scamming faucet payouts for tiny amounts of bitcoin. And those faucets payout didn't make me much but it made me a ton of clams!

[Hippie Tech]

That scam site is still showing on your sig and we have yet to hear how or why you were paid and/or if you have been deleting posts.

"That scam site" is nothing more than a gateway/advertising page when I checked when you first brought it up.

I will pull out the older laptop and get the login credentials when I have a secondary reason to do so.
At the moment, I have better things to do.

I haven't deleted any posts except those I have referenced in this thread, and often even quoted them before they are deleted.

Your questions have been repeatedly answered.
My patience with your trolling is growing thin, Hippie Tech.

Quoted what ? lol.. You only made 4 posts that month.. after registering for that scam.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717300.msg8243713#msg8243713



Also please explain, what I believe is your first post on the CLAM ANN...

The ANN is legit.  My Clams were in my wallet, and so are my BTC as well.

Mildly familiar with the code, and frankly there aren't a whole lot of changes.

I will delete my account if this is a scam to steal wallet.dat files.

Mildy familiar ?

5 days later, you are once again leading us on to believe that you are not "Creative".

Trying to do the math on the Proof-Of-Chain distribution.

CLAMS has a total POSSIBLE distribution of 15 Million.

I think that is not taking everything into consideration, however.

Actual Total Distribution = Total Possible - Lost BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Destroyed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Un-Redeemed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys


The question is, what does that mean?

I would expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be EXREMELY LESS than 15 Million at any given time.  In order to get to the full 15 Million possible distribution it would have to be one of if not THE world's leading crypto-currency.

Mining inflation normally destroys coins.
For every coin created by mining, there must be an equal in-flow of dollars of demand.  If there isn't then the value of the coin drops.

With CLAMS, there is no mining and only 1% Proof-Of-Stake.
So each unit of demand should only be counter-acted by new users who redeem their CLAMS.  And, new users who redeem their CLAMS are in and of themselves a source of demand.

If you add to that equation the kHashier.com multi-pool, which has been stacking BTC while waiting for the markets to adopt and have a stable market for CLAMS.....

I still think those who dump their CLAMS immediately after redeeming, or those who don't keep an eye on this one will deeply regret it.
I don't see a single negative when the economics are considered.

Just my two-cents.

2.5 months later, you're a pool op.

Just a notice to everyone!

Expect the kHashier.com multi-pool to go offline for a moment later this evening, possibly quite soon.

x11 is being added.

It is expected to come back up (and stay up) quite quickly - but we all know how updates go.

[freedomno1]

I think the pacing is what would be more important, that said is the Clam Whale almost done digging yet the price is low enough that at this stage a fast dump is a lot better than a slow prolonged one.

He's done digging, apparently. But not done selling.

And when you say "better", better for who? It's a zero sum game. Better for the digger means worse for the rest of us, doesn't it?

It's like a thorn prickle, the quicker it's taken out of your side the faster the market can absorb the impact and recover.
In a sense better from the perspective of if X took 2 years and kept the market artificially low because the market sentiment sees it as a negative vs someone who releases all their holdings and lets the market rebalance at a higher level I prefer the quick bloody cut over a long stab.
At least then the market can suture the wound up.

It may be zero sum but suffering wide it's worlds apart  

[thefix]

All I can say is THANK YOU digger for fucking up a great coin. Now you can dump as much as you want.

If you were a bit smarter, you could have profited 10x more from CLAM but I guess greed really conquers all.

I understand that you're mad about the price dropping, but I don't think your two sentences make sense together.

The digger had a certain large amount of CLAM to dig. He wanted to sell it all. If you're right that he could have profited 10x more, that means he could have taken 10x more value from us CLAM holders. Wouldn't that have fucked up the coin more? We would end up having bought the same number of CLAMs from him, but having paid 10x more for them. How is that good for us?

I know this is kind of off the table for now, I am just curious how quickly you could implement this if you found the need?

I think that if it ever came to the point that I felt I had to stop using CLAM at Just-Dice, it would make more sense to use an established more stable coin (like BTC (but don't tell uvwvj)) and simply put a cap on the bankroll size to avoid things getting out of control like they did before.

We're not near that point now. I just don't think it's worth the hassle of making a new coin, setting up a block explorer, petitioning to get it listed on exchanges, having to listen to attacks from all the people who disagree with the arbitrary choice of initial distribution, and all that stuff that goes along with making a new coin.

I understand that, who needs that kind of hassle and extra work.

[SuperClam]

That scam site is still showing on your sig and we have yet to hear how or why you were paid and/or if you have been deleting posts.

"That scam site" is nothing more than a gateway/advertising page when I checked when you first brought it up.
I will pull out the older laptop and get the login credentials when I have a secondary reason to do so.
At the moment, I have better things to do.
I haven't deleted any posts except those I have referenced in this thread, and often even quoted them before they are deleted.
Your questions have been repeatedly answered.
My patience with your trolling is growing thin, Hippie Tech.

Quoted what ? lol.. You only made 4 posts that month.. after registering for that scam.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717300.msg8243713#msg8243713

I was a bit busy working on a new project.
You might have heard of it; it's called "CLAM".

I have quoted virtually every single post self-moderated/deleted on this thread and then went on to explain why it was deleted.
It is self-defeating in a way - but, I simply hate censoring/moderating.
Again, you might have noticed.

Are you suggesting that every single person who had that site's signature on their profile, or banner on their website was part of the "scam"?
I wasn't even aware it had been a scam, until you brought it up.

Also please explain, what I believe is your first post on the CLAM ANN...

The ANN is legit.  My Clams were in my wallet, and so are my BTC as well.
Mildly familiar with the code, and frankly there aren't a whole lot of changes.
I will delete my account if this is a scam to steal wallet.dat files.

Mildy familiar ?
5 days later, you are once again leading us on to believe that you are not "Creative".

Trying to do the math on the Proof-Of-Chain distribution.
CLAMS has a total POSSIBLE distribution of 15 Million.
I think that is not taking everything into consideration, however.
Actual Total Distribution = Total Possible - Lost BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Destroyed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Un-Redeemed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys
The question is, what does that mean?
I would expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be EXREMELY LESS than 15 Million at any given time.  In order to get to the full 15 Million possible distribution it would have to be one of if not THE world's leading crypto-currency.
Mining inflation normally destroys coins.
For every coin created by mining, there must be an equal in-flow of dollars of demand.  If there isn't then the value of the coin drops.
With CLAMS, there is no mining and only 1% Proof-Of-Stake.
So each unit of demand should only be counter-acted by new users who redeem their CLAMS.  And, new users who redeem their CLAMS are in and of themselves a source of demand.
If you add to that equation the kHashier.com multi-pool, which has been stacking BTC while waiting for the markets to adopt and have a stable market for CLAMS.....
I still think those who dump their CLAMS immediately after redeeming, or those who don't keep an eye on this one will deeply regret it.
I don't see a single negative when the economics are considered.
Just my two-cents.

Refer back to :

<These> questions have been repeatedly answered.

2.5 months later, you're a pool op.

Just a notice to everyone!
Expect the kHashier.com multi-pool to go offline for a moment later this evening, possibly quite soon.
x11 is being added.
It is expected to come back up (and stay up) quite quickly - but we all know how updates go.

We were running a multi-pool in support of CLAM.
If I remember correctly it was low or zero fee as well.

Do you have a problem with me being involved in other projects besides CLAM?
Heck, this wasn't even 'besides' CLAM, it was designed to help CLAM.

Last I checked, I was a volunteer.
If you'd like to hire me, pay me a salary, and specify in my contract that I not take part in side projects in the crypto-space....
Send me a PM.

[crazyivan]

All I can say is THANK YOU digger for fucking up a great coin. Now you can dump as much as you want.

If you were a bit smarter, you could have profited 10x more from CLAM but I guess greed really conquers all.

I understand that you're mad about the price dropping, but I don't think your two sentences make sense together.

The digger had a certain large amount of CLAM to dig. He wanted to sell it all. If you're right that he could have profited 10x more, that means he could have taken 10x more value from us CLAM holders. Wouldn't that have fucked up the coin more? We would end up having bought the same number of CLAMs from him, but having paid 10x more for them. How is that good for us?

If he were a bit smarter, he would have spread his selling over a long period of time. This would allow new people to enter CLAM and absorb his coins. This is what I do with coins where I am among 10 top rich list. I do not dump, I sell it bit by bit, making sure I do not hurt the price. This way I can keep my earning potential and at the same time respect the coin and community which brings me money.

This asshole did none of that. He just dumped and the only reason he stopped now is cause he s figured out what he has done. However, now is too late. Among all PoS coins I currenlty hold, CLAM is by far the worst performer in the last 3 months.

Also, please, stop this shit about the big come back. Nobody s crazy enough to buy into a coin where you have a greedy maniac holding 350k coins just waiting for you to set buy order so he can dump.

I m not angry, I m just disappointed. Cause every great project in crypto gets destroyed by the greed, stupidity and selfishness.

So now we can sit and watch price sliding down for the next 6 months until it ends up being peanuts. I m sure they ll be a lot of CLAM community around once all this is over.

[edmundduke]

All I can say is THANK YOU digger for fucking up a great coin. Now you can dump as much as you want.

If you were a bit smarter, you could have profited 10x more from CLAM but I guess greed really conquers all.

I understand that you're mad about the price dropping, but I don't think your two sentences make sense together.

The digger had a certain large amount of CLAM to dig. He wanted to sell it all. If you're right that he could have profited 10x more, that means he could have taken 10x more value from us CLAM holders. Wouldn't that have fucked up the coin more? We would end up having bought the same number of CLAMs from him, but having paid 10x more for them. How is that good for us?

I m not angry, I m just disappointed. Cause every great project in crypto gets destroyed by the greed, stupidity and selfishness.

So now we can sit and watch price sliding down for the next 6 months until it ends up being peanuts. I m sure they ll be a lot of CLAM community around once all this is over.

If someone wants to sell, then it is up to them to do so. Why is it your concern ? Maybe he needed the cash or did not believe in CLAM enough to keep them ? Why aren't you pissed at people who sell BTC in large amounts? You should go and rant about bitcoin also as you trade CLAM for bitcoin as all dumps there affect CLAM.
Its the diggers choice what he does with the coins and how he does it. This is how the distribution was done, everyone who bought in knew the risks. Now move on and stop bickering.

[clf99]

clam hittin new lows vs btc on poloniex