Bitcoin Forum
March 30, 2024, 02:08:41 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 [283] 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 ... 501 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1150710 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
jaysabi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044
Merit: 1115


★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!


View Profile
November 27, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
 #5641

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

1711764521
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711764521

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711764521
Reply with quote  #2

1711764521
Report to moderator
1711764521
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711764521

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711764521
Reply with quote  #2

1711764521
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
November 27, 2015, 10:08:03 PM
 #5642

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Were it not for the fact that the CLAMs were dug in a particular order (probably a mistake by the digger), it never would have been clear how many there were to dig by one person. He could have simply dug slowly and essentially invisibly for a long time. Whether that would have netted a larger payoff or not is not clear to anyone, but that doesn't stop people from having opinions on it.
SebastianJu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 1077


Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile


View Profile WWW
November 27, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
 #5643

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

No, he sounded like he did not make the price crash by selling. So if he did not want to crash i would have posted in this thread that iam to dig a certain amount of clams and that i will invest them in jd or so. And i would ensure that i would do a public auction when i would want to sell clams. Because i would have no interest in crashing the price and devalueing my asset. That would clammers set at peace and the biggest price drops would not have happened.

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
goose20
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 27, 2015, 10:26:21 PM
 #5644


- snip -

Were it not for the fact that the CLAMs were dug in a particular order (probably a mistake by the digger), it never would have been clear how many there were to dig by one person. He could have simply dug slowly and essentially invisibly for a long time. Whether that would have netted a larger payoff or not is not clear to anyone, but that doesn't stop people from having opinions on it.


I own CLAM.
I am sitting on a paper loss.
I am not the whale digger.
I've been following the discussion.

What i dont really get is why such an issue because it's "one person". Why does 500k being dug/owned buy one person differ from 100k people digging/owning 5 each? We all knew what the possible total available of supply of clams were. As luck would have it, one guy hit the lottery (assuming of course that there wasn't any pre-seeding).
goose20
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 27, 2015, 11:23:03 PM
 #5645

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

No, he sounded like he did not make the price crash by selling. So if he did not want to crash i would have posted in this thread that iam to dig a certain amount of clams and that i will invest them in jd or so. And i would ensure that i would do a public auction when i would want to sell clams. Because i would have no interest in crashing the price and devalueing my asset. That would clammers set at peace and the biggest price drops would not have happened.

Depends on what your definition of 'crash' is.

I may have it wrong, but i was actively trading clam on Poloniex at the time. There came wave after wave of selling. The price was on its way down because of the selling pressure. Doog subsequent to that picked up on the digging and detailed his analysis. The selling pressure coupled with the 'outing' of there being a whale digger, is what imo crashed the price. There would not have been a crash but for the initial selling.
dooglus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1327



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 12:04:31 AM
 #5646

Is there an API to retrieve the current active supply? This has become an issue for coinmarketcap. Please reply there:

I replied:

Where do you get 1460K number?  The explorer used to have the number of claimed clams, but now I can't find it.

You can use this:

https://just-dice.com/api/supply

{"moneysupply":1541886313048927,"digsupply":81867962870962,"stakesupply":64446172641730,"activesupply":146314135512693}

You probably want activesupply/1e8.

Just-Dice                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   Play or Invest                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   1% House Edge
shawn2025
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 47
Merit: 1


View Profile
November 28, 2015, 12:44:27 AM
 #5647

Is there an API to retrieve the current active supply? This has become an issue for coinmarketcap. Please reply there:

I replied:

Where do you get 1460K number?  The explorer used to have the number of claimed clams, but now I can't find it.

You can use this:

https://just-dice.com/api/supply

{"moneysupply":1541886313048927,"digsupply":81867962870962,"stakesupply":64446172641730,"activesupply":146314135512693}

You probably want activesupply/1e8.


Listen, I believe in this product.  Every time it halvs, I double or tripple down.
I hate this bickering, it's like the old Dogecoin days.  I won't tell you how much I hold, but I
will tell you I will buy more if you fuckers halv it again.  I'm down for the long run.  I only keep
taps for updates and your damn drama... you have a solid product if you don't allow the votes
or polls to fuck it up.  I look to CLAMS as a long term investment.  The others IMHO fuck
a good thing up.  Don't change a thing.  Let the diggers dig. Just stay solid for fucks sake. 
If you don't like it, buy something else. 

Respectfully. 

/s/ 
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 01:11:44 AM
Last edit: November 28, 2015, 01:54:32 AM by smooth
 #5648

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

No, he sounded like he did not make the price crash by selling. So if he did not want to crash i would have posted in this thread that iam to dig a certain amount of clams and that i will invest them in jd or so. And i would ensure that i would do a public auction when i would want to sell clams. Because i would have no interest in crashing the price and devalueing my asset. That would clammers set at peace and the biggest price drops would not have happened.

Depends on what your definition of 'crash' is.

I may have it wrong, but i was actively trading clam on Poloniex at the time. There came wave after wave of selling. The price was on its way down because of the selling pressure. Doog subsequent to that picked up on the digging and detailed his analysis. The selling pressure coupled with the 'outing' of there being a whale digger, is what imo crashed the price. There would not have been a crash but for the initial selling.

What the digger said was:

Yes, it is true that I am digging and selling my CLAMs for BTC. Though I am not dumping hard. I usually just put asks above the market price. I rarely ever do a market sell order. So although I am adding sell pressure to the price by adding asks to the orderbook, I am not "dumping" technically.

So if you saw "waves of selling" either:

A. Digger isn't telling the truth about not dumping

B. Digger is telling the truth and the dumper was:

1. Unrelated
2. Someone else who figured out the same thing dooglas figured out before he posted it
3. Someone dooglas told about his findings before posting them
4. Dooglas
5. Someone spooked by the increase in above market sell orders.
Hippie Tech
aka Amenstop
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624
Merit: 1001


All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2015, 01:31:35 AM
 #5649

Oh wow. Interesting. Did he provide proof? Where's the wallet coming from and why did he chose to crash the price the way he did instead playing the game calmly and earning more that way?

Guess the recent talk of stopping the digging ability of clams was the next bad result coming from that wooden hammer method he used.

I did not choose to crash the price. The unfortunate revealing of my large potential dig caused the price to crash, because everyone sold fearing that I will crash the price. That's how market works. It will find the true price based on available information.

So you say it wasn't you who sold but the fear of other clam owners? I thought they checked things and found that the digged coins were sold. Though i did not observe it closely.

If you are right then i imagine it is no fun watching the price for you. Especially the current discussion about stop of claiming.

I think it would have been way wiser to come clear in the beginning, you could have brought confidence to the market and stop the price drop when you would have claimed that you won't sell or that, when you want to sell, you will make a public auction.

Do you think that if he had announced before he sold a single CLAM that he had 500k CLAMs to dig but would be selling slowly that the price would not have dropped dramatically? I think that whether he announced or whether he was found out, the price drop was inevitable and unavoidable. Thinking that selling slowly wouldn't have crushed the price once we all knew how many extra CLAMs were being dug is not a view that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

No, he sounded like he did not make the price crash by selling. So if he did not want to crash i would have posted in this thread that iam to dig a certain amount of clams and that i will invest them in jd or so. And i would ensure that i would do a public auction when i would want to sell clams. Because i would have no interest in crashing the price and devalueing my asset. That would clammers set at peace and the biggest price drops would not have happened.

Depends on what your definition of 'crash' is.

I may have it wrong, but i was actively trading clam on Poloniex at the time. There came wave after wave of selling. The price was on its way down because of the selling pressure. Doog subsequent to that picked up on the digging and detailed his analysis. The selling pressure coupled with the 'outing' of there being a whale digger, is what imo crashed the price. There would not have been a crash but for the initial selling.

What the digger said was:

Yes, it is true that I am digging and selling my CLAMs for BTC. Though I am not dumping hard. I usually just put asks above the market price. I rarely ever do a market sell order. So although I am adding sell pressure to the price by adding asks to the orderbook, I am not "dumping" technically.

So if you saw "waves of selling" either:

A. Digger isn't telling the truth about not dumping

B. Digger is telling the truth and the dumper was:

1. Unrelated
2. Someone else who figured out the same thing dooglas figured out before he posted it
3. Someone doggias told about his findings before posting them
4. Dooglas
5. Someone spooked by the increase in above market sell orders.


6. BayAreaCoins
7. KeyserSozeMC

Wink

dooglus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1327



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 04:50:37 AM
 #5650

What the digger said was:

Yes, it is true that I am digging and selling my CLAMs for BTC. Though I am not dumping hard. I usually just put asks above the market price. I rarely ever do a market sell order. So although I am adding sell pressure to the price by adding asks to the orderbook, I am not "dumping" technically.

So if you saw "waves of selling" either:

A. Digger isn't telling the truth about not dumping

B. Digger is telling the truth and the dumper was:

1. Unrelated
2. Someone else who figured out the same thing dooglas figured out before he posted it
3. Someone dooglas told about his findings before posting them
4. Dooglas
5. Someone spooked by the increase in above market sell orders.

Even if the digger never did anything other than selling into existing buy orders, the price would still drop. Selling into buy orders removes buy orders from the market without removing sell orders, leaving an imbalance. The price will adjust downwards as new sellers find less attractive buy orders remaining.

I did sell some CLAMs immediately before making my first post and didn't tell anyone else about it. I think it was around 5000 CLAMs that I sold. The price had already fallen from ~0.012 to ~0.0075 before I sold anything as I remember it, so it wasn't 3 or 4 in your list that started the price collapse.

Just-Dice                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   Play or Invest                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   1% House Edge
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 04:54:56 AM
 #5651

What the digger said was:

Yes, it is true that I am digging and selling my CLAMs for BTC. Though I am not dumping hard. I usually just put asks above the market price. I rarely ever do a market sell order. So although I am adding sell pressure to the price by adding asks to the orderbook, I am not "dumping" technically.

So if you saw "waves of selling" either:

A. Digger isn't telling the truth about not dumping

B. Digger is telling the truth and the dumper was:

1. Unrelated
2. Someone else who figured out the same thing dooglas figured out before he posted it
3. Someone dooglas told about his findings before posting them
4. Dooglas
5. Someone spooked by the increase in above market sell orders.

Even if the digger never did anything other than selling into existing buy orders, the price would still drop. Selling into buy orders removes buy orders from the market without removing sell orders, leaving an imbalance. The price will adjust downwards as new sellers find less attractive buy orders remaining.

He claimed not to sell into existing buy orders.

Quote
I did sell some CLAMs immediately before making my first post and didn't tell anyone else about it. I think it was around 5000 CLAMs that I sold. The price had already fallen from ~0.012 to ~0.0075 before I sold anything as I remember it, so it wasn't 3 or 4 in your list that started the price collapse.

That could have been one of the "waves" of selling being reported though. If I recall correctly, at the time most alts were being battered (as they are now) by an inverse correlation with the BTC price rise. So the original (much smaller) drop could possibly have had nothing to do with the digger at all (#1 above), but then one thing led to another. Coincidences do happen.
dooglus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2940
Merit: 1327



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 05:31:21 AM
 #5652

He claimed not to sell into existing buy orders.

Yeah, I got that exactly backwards, sorry. Either way, he's adding to the sell pressure which will tend to push the price down.

Quote
I did sell some CLAMs immediately before making my first post and didn't tell anyone else about it. I think it was around 5000 CLAMs that I sold. The price had already fallen from ~0.012 to ~0.0075 before I sold anything as I remember it, so it wasn't 3 or 4 in your list that started the price collapse.

That could have been one of the "waves" of selling being reported though. If I recall correctly, at the time most alts were being battered (as they are now) by an inverse correlation with the BTC price rise. So the original (much smaller) drop could possibly have had nothing to do with the digger at all (#1 above), but then one thing led to another. Coincidences do happen.

Yeah, I don't know.

I've had one person accuse me of using "inside information", and that it was unfair that I sold some CLAMs before publishing my findings. I'd counter that the information I found was on the public blockchain, and so wasn't "inside information" at all.

Just-Dice                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   Play or Invest                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   1% House Edge
goose20
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 05:41:01 AM
 #5653

What the digger said was:

Yes, it is true that I am digging and selling my CLAMs for BTC. Though I am not dumping hard. I usually just put asks above the market price. I rarely ever do a market sell order. So although I am adding sell pressure to the price by adding asks to the orderbook, I am not "dumping" technically.

So if you saw "waves of selling" either:

A. Digger isn't telling the truth about not dumping

B. Digger is telling the truth and the dumper was:

1. Unrelated
2. Someone else who figured out the same thing dooglas figured out before he posted it
3. Someone dooglas told about his findings before posting them
4. Dooglas
5. Someone spooked by the increase in above market sell orders.

Even if the digger never did anything other than selling into existing buy orders, the price would still drop. Selling into buy orders removes buy orders from the market without removing sell orders, leaving an imbalance. The price will adjust downwards as new sellers find less attractive buy orders remaining.

I did sell some CLAMs immediately before making my first post and didn't tell anyone else about it. I think it was around 5000 CLAMs that I sold. The price had already fallen from ~0.012 to ~0.0075 before I sold anything as I remember it, so it wasn't 3 or 4 in your list that started the price collapse.

This imo is what was happening. I know what the digger has said. But initially his sizeable sells were causing the price to drop. Definitely caused an imbalance.
I think it was only after he got a decent fill of btc and the price dropped significantly did he ease up. He may not have intended to cause what he did, but he did initiate the downward spiral.

I still believe in CLAM and i do use it on JD. In my mind i just pretend the whale digger hit it big on JD. He cashes out some, the price drops some, then we move on and CLAM survives and thrives.

It's way oversold and more valuable than current price suggests. Just my own thoughts. (Disclaimer: i own xxxx CLAM)
People are welcome to have their own.
Smiley




smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 05:44:39 AM
 #5654

He claimed not to sell into existing buy orders.

Yeah, I got that exactly backwards, sorry. Either way, he's adding to the sell pressure which will tend to push the price down.

Quote
I did sell some CLAMs immediately before making my first post and didn't tell anyone else about it. I think it was around 5000 CLAMs that I sold. The price had already fallen from ~0.012 to ~0.0075 before I sold anything as I remember it, so it wasn't 3 or 4 in your list that started the price collapse.

That could have been one of the "waves" of selling being reported though. If I recall correctly, at the time most alts were being battered (as they are now) by an inverse correlation with the BTC price rise. So the original (much smaller) drop could possibly have had nothing to do with the digger at all (#1 above), but then one thing led to another. Coincidences do happen.

Yeah, I don't know.

I've had one person accuse me of using "inside information", and that it was unfair that I sold some CLAMs before publishing my findings. I'd counter that the information I found was on the public blockchain, and so wasn't "inside information" at all.

And for the same reason it isn't implausible that someone else (not you and not the digger) figured out the same thing and started the selling. It is very hard to know what really happened.
crazyivan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007


DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!


View Profile
November 28, 2015, 07:16:45 AM
 #5655

This kind of BS reply can write only the digger himself or someone who uses the same tactics. What s the problem in selling slowly? He d make more money and the rest of the CLAM community would make more money. The only ones who would pay more are new CLAM entrants and event them would make money from staking a highly valueble coin.

While I don't think the tone of DrkLvr_'s reply was helpful, I think I see things the same way as him.

If the digger makes more money, the rest of us make less. There's no way for everyone to make more.

You talked about how when you are a "top 10" holder of a coin and want out, you sell it slowly so that you get a better price for it. That means you make more than if you would by dumping it quickly, but the buyers *pay* more than they would if you had dumped it quickly. That's good for Ivan, and bad for everyone else.

Somebody selling 500k CLAMs into an 800k market is always going to depress the price. Selling them cheap is better for *us* than selling them expensive.

If you're looking for someone to "blame", I think you need to look at the developers who came up with the initial distribution method. They're the ones who (probably unknowingly) gave 500k CLAMs to a single person. In retrospect, rewarding people with CLAMs for filling the BTC blockchain with unspent outputs wasn't the best idea. The rest was pretty much inevitable from that point. Each market participant acts in their own perceived best interest.


I agree with the second part of your post, the dev team should have thought this better but also I should ve thought this better when joining CLAM. Also, I went out when the price started falling so I dont hold much ATM and this is not the primary reason why I write this. So again, I do not blame anyone and I m not angy, just disappointed.

About the first part of your post, getting 500k at cheaper price s always good, in case you have market to stake and sell them back. My point is, with such a huge amount being dumped, CLAM s not going to have extremely hard time recovering, if ever. So, if an average holder need to wait for 5 years to sell his CLAM in order to make money from buying CLAM cheap, this is not gonna work.

You already have this in practice. The digger has removed most of his huge sale orders and we have only 30k on Polo but the price still goes down. Why? Cause people know what s going to happen.

Killing the dig is the only option I can think of for CLAM to survive. If I am mistaken and there s something wrong with my logic, pls show me where I am wrong. I am an easy guy to talk to.

 


For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
nakaone
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500


View Profile
November 28, 2015, 08:20:33 AM
 #5656

do not get me wrong, I could not follow the whole discussion:

Is it not possible by market mechanisms to solve the problem? I simply believe that the market was wrong about the (expected) price. The market corrected (massively). The functunality and the contract of clams as well as just-dice usage are not affected are they?
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
November 28, 2015, 08:48:52 AM
 #5657

This imo is what was happening. I know what the digger has said. But initially his sizeable sells were causing the price to drop. Definitely caused an imbalance.

How do you know the sells were his?
crazyivan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007


DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!


View Profile
November 28, 2015, 08:54:21 AM
 #5658

It is true that if I had been more careful and not revealed my total dig amount, people would not have caught on so quickly, and I could probably have made more BTC from my CLAMs. But as dooglus said, I was adding 500k clams to a total supply of 800k clams. The price will go down no matter what. If no one knew how many I had and I sold it real slow, the price might have gone down much slower. I would have made a lot more money, and a lot more people would have lost money.

Remember that CLAM price had a huge run up before I started digging. Clam had only 1 use case, which is JustDice. The price at that time was not sustainable. I saw that and decided to cash out at that time. I'm sure others saw it too and cashed out. Waves and waves of selling is not because of me. Of course, I added to the selling pressure by putting in limit sells above market. But that doesn't really matter, because once Dooglus revealed my total dig amount, the market started to panic. The price fairly quickly dropped to the new "true" price given the new information out there. I did not increase my selling. Actually, my selling strategy has remained unchanged since the beginning.

I have nothing against you, you have your own interests to take care and CLAM rules allowed you to dig and sell whenever you want.

Revealing your existence and the number of coins you own, in addition to your selling pressure, has probably been crucial for this price dump.

But the main question is what now? Where do we go from now? Cause if this the whole plan, you digging and dumping, I m afraid you wont have anyone to sell to. Cause I know I would not place a single satoshi as a buy order knowing the price s gonna go only down. Also, only a noob would enter the market now and buy so new people re out too. I know some people re gonna say I m sharing negative marketing to CLAM but I would not like for these noobs who enter PoS for the first time to come here and lose their money without even having a chance to profit. On the other hand, I would like CLAM to go down, ever. I hope you see my point, what do we do now? Where does CLAM go from here?

Not to mention the fact I hope you do plan to keep some of your CLAM to stake and profit from PoS in the future as well. So, dev team, community, where do we go from here? What is the way out? Sitting and doing nothing isnt cause one does not need to be a genius to figure out where all this is gonna end if nothing s being done.

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
Trent Russell
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 132
Merit: 100


willmathforcrypto.com


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
 #5659

...
If you're looking for someone to "blame", I think you need to look at the developers who came up with the initial distribution method. They're the ones who (probably unknowingly) gave 500k CLAMs to a single person. In retrospect, rewarding people with CLAMs for filling the BTC blockchain with unspent outputs wasn't the best idea. The rest was pretty much inevitable from that point. Each market participant acts in their own perceived best interest.

I agree with the second part of your post, the dev team should have thought this better but also I should ve thought this better when joining CLAM.

Someone could criticize BTC in the same way: there are "whales" (e.g., Satoshi) and so don't join up. Do you have the same concerns about BTC?

Killing the dig is the only option I can think of for CLAM to survive. If I am mistaken and there s something wrong with my logic, pls show me where I am wrong. I am an easy guy to talk to.

So, dev team, community, where do we go from here? What is the way out? Sitting and doing nothing isnt cause one does not need to be a genius to figure out where all this is gonna end if nothing s being done.

It's not clear to me how this will end up if nothing is changed.

The current selling by curious and (even perhaps moreso) other people is pushing down the price a lot. That's bad.

Eventually curious won't have such a large stash to sell (same for the people who are choosing to get out now) and there will be fewer clams on the market. That's good.

Some people will be afraid of a future whale digger and will stay away from Clams. That's bad.

Some people will hear someone got a free six figure jackpot from Clams initial distribution and then take the time to look into Clams. That's good.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm only saying it's not clear to me you're right.

crazyivan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007


DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!


View Profile
November 28, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
 #5660

I have nothing against you, you have your own interests to take care and CLAM rules allowed you to dig and sell whenever you want.

Revealing your existence and the number of coins you own, in addition to your selling pressure, has probably been crucial for this price dump.

But the main question is what now? Where do we go from now? Cause if this the whole plan, you digging and dumping, I m afraid you wont have anyone to sell to. Cause I know I would not place a single satoshi as a buy order knowing the price s gonna go only down. Also, only a noob would enter the market now and buy so new people re out too. I know some people re gonna say I m sharing negative marketing to CLAM but I would not like for these noobs who enter PoS for the first time to come here and lose their money without even having a chance to profit. On the other hand, I would like CLAM to go down, ever. I hope you see my point, what do we do now? Where does CLAM go from here?

Not to mention the fact I hope you do plan to keep some of your CLAM to stake and profit from PoS in the future as well. So, dev team, community, where do we go from here? What is the way out? Sitting and doing nothing isnt cause one does not need to be a genius to figure out where all this is gonna end if nothing s being done.

No doubt, the digging was the catalyst of the price dump. But CLAMs were previously overpriced. The price today is closer to the right price given the current situation: there are potentially still millions of undug CLAMs and the only use case for clams is JustDice.

I think you and others are focused way too much on the price of CLAM. If your only interest in Clam is to profit from it then Clams won't go anywhere. The price matters very little. For Clams to succeed, there needs to more reasons to own Clams.

Haha. We re focusing on the price of CLAM?? So why did you dump any of them if you believed so much in reasons to own CLAMS? You could have staked all of them and sell stakes only.

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
Pages: « 1 ... 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 [283] 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 ... 501 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!