NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs

[patmast3r]

I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.

1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x?
2) You know the name so you're involved?
3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum.

And now you combine:

There is no central authority.

Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability.

I am awaiting your answer, thank you.

1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking
2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement.
3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal.

Noone was hired, No money was spent.

Hope that answers your questions.

[patmast3r]

Why is NEMforum always so slow?

It isn't for me.

[patmast3r]

I can't believe this type of action. I invested in NEM over a year ago, because I got really interested about the ideas of how to improve the fairness in finance. I have been checking all the time how things are rolling, but not been active posting. Just here for the interest for a great project and with just one account and stake. Actually I registered to BTT just for NEM. I think that many accounts are registered during that time because of the end of 2013 bitcoin boom.

And now I find my address on the sockpuppet list about to get kicked out. This just makes me speechless. I have praised this project to all my friends and people I've met that are interested in technology. And now this. You should really reconsider how you wan't to conduct these kind of processes.

  

As I told you via pm - Every single person that was marked as sock will get the chance to make their case during the extended redemption period. People have hade their case during the first round as well and some of them got back.

[zoata87]

I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.

1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x?
2) You know the name so you're involved?
3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum.

And now you combine:

There is no central authority.

Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability.

I am awaiting your answer, thank you.

1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking
2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement.
3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal.

Noone was hired, No money was spent.

Hope that answers your questions.

So Mr.X came - showed - and there was the final decission. Community involvement zero. Very transparent.

[patmast3r]

NEM's goal was always to have a wide distribution to unique people. We know that having whales risks the success of a crypto currency, so you should all be happy that somebody puts that much effort in it.

And what about this: Start complaining, when you see your stake was removed. Not before that...

That's a selfish move.

First I think about the Project itself. This decision will hurt the project. Many questions will arise and NEM will suffer from FUD after release like NXT suffered.
Then I think about my friends.
And then I think about my own stake which I don't care that much.

NEM's goal was always to have a wide distribution to unique people.

They are killing their own goal. That's why I said that NEM was derailing from its course as well.

FUD is something NEM has dealt with from day 1. Bring it on I guess.
Your a Sr. Member and a known NXTer. If you make your case during the extended redemption period you and your friends might get their stakes back (if you where removed that is). TWinnderD (I'm sure the name rings a bell ?) was in the exact same situation and got most of his stakes back (but then again he just made his case and asked me instead of going striaght into the thread and starting to point fingers).

[patmast3r]

I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.

1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x?
2) You know the name so you're involved?
3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum.

And now you combine:

There is no central authority.

Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability.

I am awaiting your answer, thank you.

1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking
2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement.
3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal.

Noone was hired, No money was spent.

Hope that answers your questions.

So Mr.X came - showed - and there was the final decission. Community involvement zero. Very transparent.

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.

[mikesbmw]

NEM's goal was always to have a wide distribution to unique people. We know that having whales risks the success of a crypto currency, so you should all be happy that somebody puts that much effort in it.

And what about this: Start complaining, when you see your stake was removed. Not before that...

That's a selfish move.

First I think about the Project itself. This decision will hurt the project. Many questions will arise and NEM will suffer from FUD after release like NXT suffered.
Then I think about my friends.
And then I think about my own stake which I don't care that much.

NEM's goal was always to have a wide distribution to unique people.

They are killing their own goal. That's why I said that NEM was derailing from its course as well.

FUD is something NEM has dealt with from day 1. Bring it on I guess.
Your a Sr. Member and a known NXTer. If you make your case during the extended redemption period you and your friends might get their stakes back. TWinnderD (I'm sure the name rings a bell ?) was in the exact same situation and got most of his stakes back (but then again he just made his case and asked me instead of going striaght into the thread and starting to point fingers).

Well I can imagine a lot of people being a "bit surprised" by this... Can't you?
I'm not on the list btw, I'm just all about transparency.

[zoata87]

I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.

1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x?
2) You know the name so you're involved?
3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum.

And now you combine:

There is no central authority.

Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability.

I am awaiting your answer, thank you.

1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking
2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement.
3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal.

Noone was hired, No money was spent.

Hope that answers your questions.

So Mr.X came - showed - and there was the final decission. Community involvement zero. Very transparent.

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.

The final list was final. There are way enough posts on the official forum. Community decided also - no more investigation. Another question; "...He showed everyone the data..." Who is everyone? As is said, i didnt see anything.

[patmast3r]

I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.

1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x?
2) You know the name so you're involved?
3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum.

And now you combine:

There is no central authority.

Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability.

I am awaiting your answer, thank you.

1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking
2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement.
3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal.

Noone was hired, No money was spent.

Hope that answers your questions.

So Mr.X came - showed - and there was the final decission. Community involvement zero. Very transparent.

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.

The final list was final. There are way enough posts on the official forum. Community decided also - no more investigation. Another question; "...He showed everyone the data..." Who is everyone? As is said, i didnt see anything.

everyone in this case is core team + me. He is an active nemster so he might have showed more people. I can't be sure about that. Appearantly not many though.

[patmast3r]

I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".

Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead. 

[zoata87]

I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.

So the whole core team did nothing to involve the community because they were afraid of their reaction? Thats's the point? So the better choice is to ignore them, i got it. Thats centralized as hell and has absolutely nothing to do with freedom and other principles NEM stands for.

[zoata87]

Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead. 

I don't need to blow of anything but you can't deny this was a really stupid step.

[patmast3r]

I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.

So the whole core team did nothing to involve the community because they were afraid of their reaction? Thats's the point? So the better choice is to ignore them, i got it. Thats centralized as hell and has absolutely nothing to do with freedom and other principles NEM stands for.

I think you got that wrong. We didn't want the socks to know. If I was afraid of the communities reaction i wouldn't have published those results (well tbh I was reluctant).

[Fatih87SK]

My questions; Part 1;

How can we trust a mysterious guy which is doing an audit and make decisions about which are sockpuppets and which are not?
Why is he anonymous?
What method is used?
Is this method working well? Prove?
Who decided to use this method?
Was there an audit after the mysterious guy showed his result?
Why were the stakeholders not informed of any of this?
Who are the ones that can make key decisions for NEM right now? Because I don't feel comfortable with it.
Where is the decentralized spirit of NEM? This action killed the whole idea of a decentralized movement IMO.
How will the Boss of NEM gain his trust fom his 'beloved' stakeholders which are feeling ignored?
Will the stakeholders of NEM ever get a voice or are they fooled by looking at fancy colours of logos?
When will NEM reach out to their 'stakeholders' and ask for their opinion about NEM matters?
When will NEM turn into a real Decentralized community like NXT instead of a high school project?
What is the difference between the Old Economy Movement and the New Economy Movement if the actions of these two Movements are identical? Having a fancy Wallet?
What is the reason I should join in the NEM adventure when there are other projects where participants/stakeholders are taken serious by joining votes etc.?
Was is taken into account that many people would dislike this action?
NEM is derailing from the promises that was given to the people in Bitcointalk. Are those promises wiped out and is sailing a new course?
What is the new mission of NEM?
What is the new vision of NEM?
Will the stakeholders taken seriously on future decision at all or will the boss of NEM take these kinds of important decision by himself?
Will NEM build a Voting System like NXT to let the stakeholders vote in a decentralized way or is this not important for you guys?
Are there more mysterious/anonymous members of NEM which are taking decisions for NEM which is not communicated?
When there are centralized authorities in the current economical businesses there are audits. Does your team has audits since NEM is taking decisions on a centralized way?
If yes; Who is the auditor? If no; How is NEM better than the current economical system?

[mixmaster]

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

This! Please, at least TRY to understand this.

The socks HAD TO think the stakeholder list was final, otherwise they would have been really careful with further steps.

[Fatih87SK]

I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".

Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead. 

It's not what NEM did. But how they did it.

In silence. Anonymous. Not transparent. Bad timing etc.

Ofcourse it's good that a puppet with 200 accounts get deleted. But like I said; not the result, but the road to it is really wrong.

[kodtycoon]

I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".

Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead. 

It's not what NEM did. But how they did it.

In silence. Anonymous. Not transparent. Bad timing etc.

Ofcourse it's good that a puppet with 200 accounts get deleted. But like I said; not the result, but the road to it is really wrong.

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

This! Please, at least TRY to understand this.

The socks HAD TO think the stakeholder list was final, otherwise they would have been really careful with further steps.

[patmast3r]

I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".

Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead. 

It's not what NEM did. But how they did it.

In silence. Anonymous. Not transparent. Bad timing etc.

Ofcourse it's good that a puppet with 200 accounts get deleted. But like I said; not the result, but the road to it is really wrong.

I can't say I wholeheartedly dissagree but I will say that we're doing the best we can with the best intentions in mind. 

[zoata87]

I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?

"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"

Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.

This! Please, at least TRY to understand this.

The socks HAD TO think the stakeholder list was final, otherwise they would have been really careful with further steps.

So all discussions about another investigations were pointless. The community was taken for another ride as with the logo voting.

[3x2]

People were allowed to have 2 stakes and if someone have 20stakes he should be kicked out, its simple as that. But also if people are managing account of others then they shouldnt loss their stakes, Its hard for pat too