GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[rdyoung]

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining 

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

[MOB]

My Zenpool payouts come from the address you linked.  Do your payouts also come from that address?

Not sure what we can glean from this though. There is no large origin payment that funds this address, but rather all microtransaction to and from.  So it seems this represents one of the hotwallets into which users deposit and withdraw, but is not a mining wallet or GAW-funded wallet.

I can't find anything potentially useful other than the date of the first payment being August 9th.

It would be nice to find more addresses that Zenpool uses-does anyone have a different one?  Do a few withdrawals and re-adds and see what you find?

[Mesterlovesz74]

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining 

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

[rdyoung]

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining 

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

Your logic is faulty. First, the only one you will hit positive roi with in 60 days is the zenpool solo, the others pay what you would earn on average with most multipools. And even if you do positive roi, that doesn't make it a fine investment, that just means that those that bought after you paid you out.

[rdyoung]

My Zenpool payouts come from the address you linked.  Do your payouts also come from that address?

Not sure what we can glean from this though. There is no large origin payment that funds this address, but rather all microtransaction to and from.  So it seems this represents one of the hotwallets into which users deposit and withdraw, but is not a mining wallet or GAW-funded wallet.

I can't find anything potentially useful other than the date of the first payment being August 9th.

It would be nice to find more addresses that Zenpool uses-does anyone have a different one?  Do a few withdrawals and re-adds and see what you find?

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

[rdyoung]

Well someone has been reading this thread, there are several sizeable withdrawals from that wallet.

[Honeycutt22]

Well someone has been reading this thread, there are several sizeable withdrawals from that wallet.

Yea we know josh and some of the moderators read it.

[suchmoon]

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

There isn't any purpose except perhaps to justify PrimeHashlet's price? That pool branding is super weird considering that they don't mine on those pools.

Good luck with your investment, don't forget to tell all your friends to keep it going.

[suchmoon]

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

[dyask]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

[Honeycutt22]

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

The new scamtalk! Sweet!

New forum is having ALL sorts of issues... Suprising such a well funded company can't seem to get a forum conversion done properly. Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts? I can't even register or anything:(

[rdyoung]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

[Honeycutt22]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

What's that mean exactly?

[rdyoung]

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

The new scamtalk! Sweet!

New forum is having ALL sorts of issues... Suprising such a well funded company can't seem to get a forum conversion done properly. Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts? I can't even register or anything:(

You or I would. But Josh likes to live life by the seat of his hashlets.

The way I would do this whole changing of forum software dance? You setup the new software on a different server and start migrating data, etc. Once its up and running to your satisfaction you point the dns at the new instance, and your good to go.

[suchmoon]

Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts?

Affirmative. There have been a few store "upgrades" where they switched gawminers.com from one shopping platform to another, and it's pretty clear they don't have dev/test environments (or if they do they are horribly clueless about it). Orders got lost, order numbers didn't match, even amounts got all messed up because coupons and discounts didn't transfer. It took weeks to get points and store credit back after one of the upgrades. Same thing with helpdesk transition, my tickets got closed/merged/etc with no rhyme or reason. Just the sheer number of these "upgrades" and migrations (I think it's in double digits now if you count store, helpdesk, and forums) in their 5 months shows a fairly substantial lack of competence.

[rdyoung]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

What's that mean exactly?

What does what mean?

Real life example. I got my father and some other friends/family interested and investing in crypto.
If my father sends me funds via bitcoin or usd, I have to do something with it, either I account for it as selling him part of my % of the operation and use the funds to buy groceries or I have to spend it on more hashing power, buy more xyzcoin, etc. Money doesn't do well sitting still, unless your playing buy/hold.

[rdyoung]

Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts?

Affirmative. There have been a few store "upgrades" where they switched gawminers.com from one shopping platform to another, and it's pretty clear they don't have dev/test environments (or if they do they are horribly clueless about it). Orders got lost, order numbers didn't match, even amounts got all messed up because coupons and discounts didn't transfer. It took weeks to get points and store credit back after one of the upgrades. Same thing with helpdesk transition, my tickets got closed/merged/etc with no rhyme or reason. Just the sheer number of these "upgrades" and migrations (I think it's in double digits now if you count store, helpdesk, and forums) in their 5 months shows a fairly substantial lack of competence.

Whats even better is the fact that not long ago they had email issues, apparently they were killing whatever service they were using.
If they have a hash farm, why aren't they hosting their own websites/email/etc?

[MOB]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I agree--no logical basis for this.  This transaction data (so far anyway) does not prove anything, or even strongly suggest anything.

They receive income in BTC, LTC, USD (credit + paypal), so finding a single BTC wallet is not enough evidence to make any claims.

[verloren]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

a zenhash made .0006 as well...so if the prime makes the same...wth?

Yes, ZenHashlet and PrimeHashlet are paid the same (assuming you point PrimeHashlet to ZenPool, which is the only option than makes sense).

There is supposedly some future magic coming for PrimeHashlet, which is why the price is different.

Supposedly, only the Primes get hash rate boosts in the future.

New forum is having ALL sorts of issues... Suprising such a well funded company can't seem to get a forum conversion done properly. Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts? I can't even register or anything:(

You or I would. But Josh likes to live life by the seat of his hashlets.

The way I would do this whole changing of forum software dance? You setup the new software on a different server and start migrating data, etc. Once its up and running to your satisfaction you point the dns at the new instance, and your good to go.

Can't even register, log in, or even recover my password. New forum software is incredibly laggy.

[rdyoung]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I agree--no logical basis for this.  This transaction data (so far anyway) does not prove anything, or even strongly suggest anything.

They receive income in BTC, LTC, USD (credit + paypal), so finding a single BTC wallet is not enough evidence to make any claims.

Thing is, this is THE wallet. And I have posted before, in business you move money around.
Plus, just how much money do you think they are bringing in via ltc and doge? Likely nowhere near as much as they bring in from btc/usd.

Lets make a big assumption here, lets say josh wasn't full of shit when he said they rent out hashing power to third parties.
If they made a business deal with someone they would likely get paid a large chunk of bitcoin or usd at once. If it was usd it would need to be converted into btc for payouts, if it was btc we would expect to see some large funding deposits to that wallet to cover payouts.

The same money movement would also apply to some form of daytrading. We should see funds going into an exchange address and then back out to cover withdrawals. You can't invest money that doesn't move.

Those of you not seeing how its poor money management to leave it all in one wallet have never run a business. Unless you want your business to fail, you have track all funds incoming and outgoing. You also have to keep funds seperate to help in the accounting. BTC makes it easy to keep funds split up. Have 1 address for "investors" and another for payouts. Even pbmining which may or may not be a ponzi has different addresses for deposits and a dedicated address for payouts.