[XMR] Monero Speculation

[jmpFCE2]

...lot of this community is so full of shit. If you want people to eat the shit you are trying to shovel them, tone it down a bit closer to reality.

Slow and steady wins the race. No need to pump (and dump) constantly.

Said every bitcoin loser in 2013, right before history was made.

poor doggy fighting for the bone with DASH and Time is not on your side. HF

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[dEBRUYNE]

...lot of this community is so full of shit. If you want people to eat the shit you are trying to shovel them, tone it down a bit closer to reality.

Slow and steady wins the race. No need to pump (and dump) constantly.

Said every bitcoin loser in 2013, right before history was made.

poor doggy fighting for the bone with DASH and Time is not on your side. HF

Why does his "background" matter for this conversation? One of the perks of the internet is that people easily misinterpret eachother, which probably happened here.

[TPTB_need_war]

Scorched earth for crypto:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/products_services/socrates/new-bill-to-collect-taxes-outlawing-encryption/

[meme magic]

Scorched earth for crypto:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/products_services/socrates/new-bill-to-collect-taxes-outlawing-encryption/

you know it wont pass, yet.

[smooth]

Scorched earth for crypto:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/products_services/socrates/new-bill-to-collect-taxes-outlawing-encryption/

you know it wont pass, yet.

Putting it in play was the goal. It will pass when there is some catalyst to pass it, just like the Patriot Act.

[rdnkjdi]

We're going from bad to worse.....

I purchased a bit right before polo went down.
What's the price at?

Exceedingly stable, at 0.00231169

Kind of like a safety meeting:  Nobody Works, Nobody Gets Hurt.

How can you call a 40% drop in a few days "Exceedingly stable"?

I get that you are long on XMR, but that is delusional as hell.

 ThePatient asked about price since polo went down.  I answered quite literally. No change is stable. 
Loosen up a little.

Oh, so no change in the last 1-2 hours qualifies as "Exceedingly stable" unlike the last 48 hours where XMR took a fat shit on everyone who had been buying into the hype.

Its that kind of ridiculous pump/hype spin that people hate about crypto and alt coins.

It perfectly qualifies in context. You are the bad faith troll in this case. Welcome to my ignore list, by the way

wtf, there's no context where you could define the current XMR price "exceedingly stable"

Exactly. It's an absurd statement that has no basis in reality. The last few hours have been "Exceedingly stable". Perhaps when compared to the damn near record breaking fall that has happened over the last couple days, anything could be considered "Exceedingly stable"

Its not just that one guy either, there are actually people defending that train of thought. That's exactly what I was talking about. The kind of complete bullshit spewed by these pumpers/hype-artists/"marketing" scammers.

XMR is a good alt coin, but a lot of this community is so full of shit. If you want people to eat the shit you are trying to shovel them, tone it down a bit closer to reality.

Slow and steady wins the race. No need to pump (and dump) constantly.

It wasn't that long ago that it was $0.50.  The rise obviously came from people diversifying Eth.  It appears that this money is now going back into fiat or bitcoin (for the amount alts have dropped - bitcoin hasn't risen.  In the same way bitcoin didn't fall with the altcoin rise.  I find both very puzzling when we are talking about volume in the alt market that is over half of bitcoins total volume). 

Maybe Risto is jumping ship for the halvening (wouldn't surprise me). 

Anyway.  I bought in when it was $0.50ish.  I feel like $1.50 is a much fairer valuation.  I've quit buying silver to pay off my mini GPU farm and switched to buying Monero.  Hope I don't hate myself later.  But XMR should fairly be at the price of Dark/Dash ... it isn't because of the emission curve.  Isn't the GUI coming soon?  Emission curve should be slowing down this year.  Only unkown is ZCash.

This is just one more of dozens of examples of where people can be pointed to when they accuse XMR of instamine.  High emission rate screwed early adopters as much as late adopters.

[TPTB_need_war]

Only unkown is ZCash.

I think the biggest unknown is whether privacy for crypto-currency really has a big potential market.

I think the upside for Monero may come more from its CPU-friendly hash and greater decentralization (compared to Bitcoin's trajectory) than for its privacy. In that case, Zcash seems to have the wrong philosophy about distribution and they have yet to announce their proof-of-work algorithm.

I view Zcash mostly has a technology incubator. Ditto Monero's privacy. The boots on the ground feature of Monero is its distribution and CPU hash.

You buy now preparing for the stampede into private assets coming next year.

The privacy feature may be a rationalization even if isn't really immune to the tax authorities. Remember the masses are very late to realize anything, so when they realize it is time to stampede, they will still be a long way from realizing which anonymity technologies are NSA-proof. And I am not about to scream from my rooftop in a futile attempt to inform them.

[dEBRUYNE]

Only unkown is ZCash.

I think the biggest unknown is whether privacy for crypto-currency really has a big potential market.

I think the upside for Monero may come more from its CPU-friendly hash and greater decentralization (compared to Bitcoin's trajectory) than for its privacy. In that case, Zcash seems to have the wrong philosophy about distribution and they have yet to announce their proof-of-work algorithm.

I view Zcash mostly has a technology incubator. Ditto Monero's privacy. The boots on the ground feature of Monero is its distribution and CPU hash.

It seems like they are going with Equihash:

https://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/blogs-media/equihash-asymmetric-proof-of-work-based-generalized-birthday-problem.pdf

In addition, I think the importance of fungibility enforced on the protocol level (with privacy as by-product) is a bit underestimated. As far as I know, Zcash will allow both transparent and private transactions.

[rdnkjdi]

I think the biggest unknown is whether privacy for crypto-currency really has a big potential market.

I think the upside for Monero may come more from its CPU-friendly hash and greater decentralization (compared to Bitcoin's trajectory) than for its privacy. In that case, Zcash seems to have the wrong philosophy about distribution and they have yet to announce their proof-of-work algorithm.

I view Zcash mostly has a technology incubator. Ditto Monero's privacy. The boots on the ground feature of Monero is its distribution and CPU hash.

Ehhh from what I've read ZCash will have a much similar worldview on their algo as Ethereum.  Botnets are bad.  ASICs are bad.  GPU's are good.

I suppose you see it as CPU > GPU > ASICs.  I'm not really sure what to think at this point.

[TPTB_need_war]

It seems like they are going with Equihash:

https://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/blogs-media/equihash-asymmetric-proof-of-work-based-generalized-birthday-problem.pdf

Afair when I reviewed that paper when Zcash first mentioned it, that can only theoretically limit the parallelization speed up to a factor of around less than 10. But afaik that doesn't characterize entirely about the electricity consumption advantage for an ASIC which is the more important factor.

Afaik, an asymmetric algorithm like that is more likely to be broken (sped up or electrically optimized) by some number theoretic or algorithmic insight. I realize the Birthday problem is a very studied problem, but I trust that much less than a straightforward symmetric memory hard algorithm. I should spend some more time on that white paper in the future when I restudy my design for a CPU hash, so I can try to find more flaws in either approach. I'll wait (because I have other priorities), which will give us time to be sure that is the algorithm Zcash has chosen before investing more effort.

I fear ingrained investment more than botnets. Botnets don't have to fight you and sell you out to protect their vestment. They are just there to get some coins cheaper which drives the difficulty higher than it would be otherwise. If the botnets ever do dominate (which is unlikely) then they are competing with each other. We all can go buy a botnet too, which will drive the prices of botnets higher. In short, botnets are a decentralized resource, unlike cheap electricity which is centralized.

I think the key for Monero is remaining small enough. So the big win will be the stampede in if it comes (smaller market cap should far exceed Bitcoin's percentage gain), and that is the time I would be selling and waiting to see what is next for Monero in terms of where we are at that time in terms of state-of-the-art in sustaining decentralization.

Folks I don't share the 10 - 20 year plan viewpoint. These are not heirlooms because of the trend to centralization and the power law distribution of wealth. We go out and make our mark on society with something and it has a natural peak based on its fitness.

Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game. I realized I make my money being a creator and marketer, not as a speculator. I learned my lesson already.

[rdnkjdi]

I think the biggest unknown is whether privacy for crypto-currency really has a big potential market.

I could be wrong.  But travelling for several months to SE Asia & meeting people who are more globally minded ... I believe every year brings people who drive the world forward with technology and innovation to a point where they believe privacy matters.  And in money more than perhaps anything.

Not because they want to hide from government entities so much as they want technology inventions that keep governments in check.  If I'm right about this trend then even as bitcoin (or whatever leads the market at the time) becomes more popular the niche of people who grow to understand that it isn't required to settle for transparent blockchains will grow.

And not because they are interested in hiding from TPTB - but because they are interested in keeping them in check and see this as a way to do it.

[vuduchyld]

I think the biggest unknown is whether privacy for crypto-currency really has a big potential market.

"Privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn’t want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn’t want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world."

Eric Hughes, A Cypherpunk's Manifesto

http://www.coindesk.com/the-rise-of-the-cypherpunks/

[vuduchyld]

Think about some of the obvious use cases we all dream about...getting paid in crypto.  Should everybody in the world have a salary that is public record?

Do we want to have psychopaths monitoring every dime spent by every public figure?  Do I even care or should I know how much my mayor paid for that refrigerator?

[TPTB_need_war]

Well if you are not hiding from the government and just want privacy, then we could just use a centralized mixer.

So perhaps what I mean is that first crypto-currency has to become popular and then we have to work out which forms of privacy are plausible, scalable, realistic, and which the government will allow us to have.

It is not clear to me yet that sophiscated on chain anonymity is going to have a big market. And if it does, perhaps Zcash's algorithm will be favored because afaics can protect better against IP address correlation.

Yet I think next year, Monero will be in the strongest position with mature technology for privacy and a liquid coin with centralized distribution. I doubt Zcash will be that mature by then.

[Lebubar]

Someone dumped too hard, and broke Poloniex.

Pls don't joke around... I have way too many coins on polo for that to be funny.

Without gui I think you are not the only one.
Unfortunately in case of problem on Polo XMR community will be the more affected.

[ebookscreator]

Do you think guys monera has a potencial to grow and increase more like lisk and ethereum.. i think monero is the one old altcoin and still alive.. i want to know more about monero..
can you link me guys from monero thread?

[freedomgo]

Do you think guys monera has a potencial to grow and increase more like lisk and ethereum.. i think monero is the one old altcoin and still alive.. i want to know more about monero..
can you link me guys from monero thread?

Monero will rise like Ethereum but not like LISK. Monero is very unique. I think it is the number 1 in the  anonymous coins.

[volyova]

What would happen with Monero if Poloniex went down?

[ArticMine]

What would happen with Monero if Poloniex went down?

What happened with Bitcoin when MTGox went down?

[spatula]

What would happen with Monero if Poloniex went down?

What happened with Bitcoin when MTGox went down?

Price crashed and years later still hasn't recovered?