Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Phinnaeus Gage]

quiet in here......

"Shhhh! It almost tape out time."

[Pentax]

quiet in here......

"Shhhh! It almost tape out time."

Looks like a training session for the new PR guy...

[DebitMe]

quiet in here......

"Shhhh! It almost tape out time."

Looks like a training session for the new PR guy...

That is the funniest thing I have read in a very long time, HAHA very nice!

[DebitMe]

Alright, well my hopes are high today, lets get the news of tape out!

[goozman96]

Definitely doesn't sound like they'll be ready to ship May 1

[goozman96]

How can the miners be ready but the "extra features" be in beta? Can the miners ship without the features? Or is it something physical that needs to ship with the miner? (In which case, the miners would be delayed till the extra features are ready)

[DebitMe]

Here is what I gathered and questions I have...
-Tape Out has not happened and is being delayed by about a day and a half?
-All the previous board designs and case designs, and heatsink designs, and fan designs, and power supply designs, and internal arrangement designs were wrong and are being changed.
-Boards will be able to handle extreme overclocking, but we will have to supply our own power supplies (I believe we should be given upgraded power supplies as part of the compensation package so that we can run overclocked and have a chance to make positive ROI, but thats just me)

Questions?
-Will we get a special update in 36 hours when tape out actually happens?
-What is this "extra feature" prospero?  Is this a different line of chips?  If so, why is engineering time being diverted to this and not to getting your original line completed?  What are the "special features"?  Will Batch 1 be given free upgrades to this "special chip" for having to wait?  If you are still on your May shipping deadline, and this is the same chip, having it as "beta" ready on 1st of May doesnt sound promising for having a full product ready to go for shipping?  Is this your way of saying that my product may have problems/issues, but its only a beta product so its "OK"?
-For the layman, what does it mean that you synthesised the FPGA LTC code?  Will these be dual miners now?  Or is this a different product line, which again reverts to why is engineering time being spent on other things when you are delayed your customers by over 2 months?
-Is our warranty voided if we overclock the prospero chip?  For batch 1 people, overclocking seems like the only way to make a positive ROI (or at least have a better chance at it), can we get warrenty for overclocking our machines?  And how about upgraded PSU's that can handle overclocking?

[Pentax]

Are refund requests going to be honored or not?  This is a simple yes or no question BA.

don't give us the same 'submit a ticket, yada, yada, yada'

what is the policy of BA as to refunds at this point.  people need to know this simple piece of information.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Seems to me that with deleting posts of only one Bitcoiner--me--and creating a banner for the upcoming Austin conference to be manned by a proven liar, I don't see where they'll find the time to do other things, i.e. answer repeated questions about refunds.

<snip?

Do we accept resellers?
Yes. In order to save our customers shipping costs, we will accept a company that wishes to become our reseller and proves that they are experienced and trustworthy.

Let's revisit Black Arrow's first trustworthy reseller, shall we?

From the desk of Bobsag3, a.k.a. Matt Carson, Black Arrow's first and #1 reseller for their miners.

<snip>

I never ended up moving to another warehouse in Rolla, just the one. We went right from small warehouse in rolla > denver warehouse in one move, early Jan.
We paid for every month, and if your in contact with who you should be to verify that kind of info, they will verify it. So yes, your blowing smoke up peoples asses.

And with that im done on the subject. I think people have seen im more than up front compared to most here- but lets stay on topic about BA, or about actual minersource orders.

Timeline of Matt Carson's datacenter locations. Originally posted in Black Arrow's self-moderated thread, but quickly deleted for being...wait for it..off-topic (and that I was trolling, so they claim). Black Arrow has proof that Matt Carson can NOT be trusted, but continue to use him as their official reseller in the US. If I were to use Tom Williams, of mybitcoin.com, as my official reseller for some product, stating that people change, would I be able to sell many product, Alex Sovu, of cardreaderfactory.com? Me, the asshole, no think so, yet...

BUILDING #1: Purchased the building, awaiting infrastructure.

Building was purchased today!
All the wiring and infrastructure equipment arrives tomorrow-Wednesday. Over 400lb. Poor UPS man

<snip>

Thanks- Ill be moving to a custom made facility here in under 3 weeks.

BUILDING #2: Moving to a better facility here (still in Missouri) located 90 miles away.

Major Update!

We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.

Major Update!

We will be moving to a much large, much better facility here by the end of the month. There may be a short down time (its only a 90mi drive) while being setup at the new facility, but we will not be turning anything off right up to the last minute.

Building acquired

I cant answer on the software but I can on the shipping. Looks like the boards should be done here within 48 hours, and then will be dispatched after a small amount of testing to AUS, and me in the US. At least from me, all boards will then be tested again (Not sure how long... suggestions?) and then immediatly shipped out same day via UPS Next Day/2nd Day air [depending on location]. As soon as we know the boards are done, we can give  concrete delivery.

I'd sample test say 1/10th of the boards for a few hours on testnet.  That'd be my recommendation

Yeah I can do that. *might* be able to live stream, or atleast upload a ton of pictures.
I will be shipping from MO. Middle of the country, and if your anywhere close to me Im ok with local pickup .


And I just want to say guys - Barn has been working very hard behind the screens to bring this all together... this stuff is immensely complex.

Here we are, on November 18th, and Matt still has his datacenter in Missouri at the second facility:

<snip>

This is why I went from garage > warehouse > bigger warehouse. Heat is nuts.

Shenzhen, China    11/26/2013    8:05 P.M.   Departure Scan

Yea, but do the thumbs have any tracking info?  When you get the board delivery after a quick run though where are they coming from for you. I seem to expect California.

No idea on the thumbs- thats all Barn.
I will be shipping out from Central MO.

Does anyone have any details regarding power consumption. The genesis block calculator says expected power usage per unit to be 2100 watts. I am afraid for me that's not going to work. To be honest I was expecting something that would work on a residential 120v circuit. They also do not offer any hosting yet unfortunately.

I got ya covered
But yeah that is kind of silly. Im glad when I put my new facility together I decided to say fuck it and got all 240v

November 26th, edited on the 28th, Matt Carson is still in Missouri at the second facility: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347732.msg3723600#msg3723600

bobsag3: Vetted Co-op member. World's lowest hosting fees for vetted miner hosting at a professional colocation hosting facility in Missouri!  Official Black Arrow US Reseller and US Distributor for Drillbit Systems. New Pres. of our Mining Operations arm of our LLC. Providing R19 and R19B miners to the GB Forum!

And still upgrading his second facility:

<snip>

No problem. Im having a 400A 240V pannel installed just for the 2kw+ miners that seem to be coming out.

On December 12, 2013, fresh back from China, Matt Carson posted the following... BTW, still located in Missiouri:

This makes no sense financially and if it's going to be hosted in a data center it should be using specialized GPU mining racks that can run more GPUs per motherboard/CPU.  You really need open racks and to use PCI-E riser ribbons if you want to build a GPU mining rig, using a desktop computer case makes no sense especially because heat is a huge issue with scrypt mining.  Also to be honest, scrypt mining is VERY finicky compared to SHA256 mining, you're talking about constant lockups and crashes if heat isn't perfectly controlled.  The amount of time that's going to go into keeping everything running is going to be much higher than with bitcoins and given how the Bitfury towers already caused a ton of problems I'm not sure the coop has enough manpower to keep racks of scrypt miners up and running.

The new facility comes with me also having hired 6 more people to help out. I am currently training them right now.

On December 13, Matt Carson hired additional staff to work at his Missouri-based datacenter, to date not mentioning Denver even once.

<snip>

I am working with them right now for me to help with their tickets, so we can get the response time much faster. I have hired additional staff that start work here in a few weeks, and I know they are working hard to improve their systems.

I cant speak on the refunds unfortunately, I am still discussing the options with them.

Four hours later, Matt mentions for the first the move to Denver, right after somebody ask about local pickup since he lives in KC. Did his new hires move to Denver with him?

We will offer local pickups- but we are moving to a massive new facility in CO, so pickups will have to be from there .

ALSO: I now have access to the BA ticket system, so if you need a response feel free to PM and I can at least check on the status for you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288012

We are all moved into the new place, lots of updates and pictures to come!

BUILDING #3:

Somewhere in Colorado, in some warehouse with 16-18 foot ceilings, ideally well-suited for bitcoin miners that love fiberglass dust sourced from the exposed insulation in the ceilings and walls, blown free from the constantly moving vortex of air due to the industrial-sized air conditioning unit(s). Whatever you do, don't open up that massive overhead door that's probably not well-sealed, otherwise you'll really have the dust a flying.

This has been the third time you're on record in stating that you only moved once. Care to try for a forth time?

~TMIBTCITW

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Black Arrow has deleted the above post no less than three times, yet continues to champion their number one reseller.

Says a lot about who Black Arrow is, ergo they can NOT be trusted.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Pentax]

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  

this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.

could be.  I don't know that this is the time limiter on this project however.

From that standpoint, as long as we're waiting for things to get built that should have been built 2 months ago, can I suggest we install a beer tap on these things.    The cold beer can be run through the units and used to cool the chips when you're overclocking in order to frantically try to recover your money spent on these.

Of course we know that overclocking, while possible, voids your warranty, so don't do that.  And no-one should expect to get their money back, as this is not a financial services company.  And don't ask for a refund.  Well you can, but you might or might not get it, as we can't figure that out over the course of a month or more.

With this liquor enabled miner at least the end user can get a buzz on while watching their money go down the drain and pondering how a company that names it's currency producing products 'Prospero', can then turn around and tell people they shouldn't expect to prosper from them.

Maybe we should call it Sinkhole at this point.  Truth in advertising and all that good stuff.

[DebitMe]

Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).

GOOD CATCH!  I missed that and I assume it was a typo on BA's part, as 1400W should handle the complete X-3 based on previous chip specs, but please clarify.

[Pentax]

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  

this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.

could be.  I don't know that this is the time limiter on this project however.

From that standpoint, as long as we're waiting for things to get built that should have been built 2 months ago, can I suggest we install a beer tap on these things.    The cold beer can be run through the units and used to cool the chips when you're overclocking in order to frantically try to recover your money spent on these.

Of course we know that overclocking, while possible, voids your warranty, so don't do that.  And no-one should expect to get their money back, as this is not a financial services company.  And don't ask for a refund.  Well you can, but you might or might not get it, as we can't figure that out over the course of a month or more.

With this liquor enabled miner at least the end user can get a buzz on while watching their money go down the drain and pondering how a company that names it's currency producing products 'Prospero', can then turn around and tell people they shouldn't expect to prosper from them.

Maybe we should call it Sinkhole at this point.  Truth in advertising and all that good stuff.

their whole update just reads like;

'f*ck you - we have your money, what you going to do about it?'
gotta feel for the guys n gals who put their money into this, whether they get their miners in the end or not is actually irrelevant now.

I don't know about the update, but that's pretty much how I see their overall approach at this point.  In my opinion that looks like this:

We'll tell you what we want, when we want, and control information to the greatest extent possible.  

If we don't like the question, or don't want to answer, we'll simply ignore it, like we're doing with the central question of refunds.  Or we'll tell you to submit a ticket to shut you up, and do nothing with that when you do.

We'll throw you a bone and tell you to sit like a good little doggie and wait for your miner which has been rendered a loser due to our fook-ups.  

if you don't like it, we don't give a damn.  we took your money, so we're done with you anyhow.  now please shut up so we can steer focus away from the fact that we are costing our customers thousands of dollars and back to an area more conducive to our profit margin.

[DebitMe]

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.

That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

They answered this question last page, the current production line will not incorporate Scrypt mining.  They are working on a scrypt miner (different project, different engineers) presumably paid by our pre order money...
The surprise they said was software related, but they will not tell us what it is until release.  So....we are back to withholding information.  IMHO releasing as much info as possible is their best bet right now, but they have our money and probably will just disregard that statement.

[DebitMe]

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.

That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

They answered this question last page, the current production line will not incorporate Scrypt mining.  They are working on a scrypt miner (different project, different engineers) presumably paid by our pre order money...
The surprise they said was software related, but they will not tell us what it is until release.  So....we are back to withholding information.  IMHO releasing as much info as possible is their best bet right now, but they have our money and probably will just disregard that statement.

Understood, hard to keep track with this thread sometimes as it gets derailed by whether Matt Carson takes a dump in Missouri or Colorado or if has a tool shed in Wyoming.  Gets dizzying.

Just want facts, Q&A, not conspiracy theories.

At least when they put the scrypt ASICs up for sale we will get 10% off because they lost us a ton of money with these orders, but then again, it isn't their problem since they only manufacture hardware.  Now that I think about it, that statement basically says we don't give two shits about our customers.  lol.  That statement they made (now for the 2nd or 3rd time) always troubled me, but I could never find the words to express how I felt when I heard it, but there it is.  They do not give a shit about us. 

[OleOle]

Do you have any more renders?





Wa-hahaha   

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Do you have any more renders?





Wa-hahaha   

stop it, these guys have paid a lot of money to these crooks.

Thanks for the update, blackarrow.  But the fact that your product page still says "In Stock" is blatantly deceptive.

If we put the product out of stock, our website will not take any orders. We've added a note to the product to explain the situation.

Three days ago, I placed an order for an "In Stock" product and was immediately told the item was backordered and I would receive a notification in the next 4-7 days for payment.  I now learn through your post that my order will most likely not be available for an additional 4 weeks.

I understand the manufacturing and supply chain process can be very challenging, but placing an overseas order like this requires a great deal of trust from the customer and when a customer's expectations are manipulated and/or misinformed by the seller - that trust erodes quickly.

Of course, I have not yet made any actual payment, so there is no measurable loss of funds here, but you should know - this sort of practice is disruptive & irritating and furthermore seems unsuitable to the communicative & helpful person that you seem to be.

We've been more than open with everybody here about how the production is going.

We've asked everybody not to pay for the products that are not in stock but we still see unhappy customers like you. I guess you cannot make everybody happy whatever you do.

I'm amazed how some people are so sensitive about such a minor detail but they are pouring money in some companies that have not shipped anything for 1 year (Butterfly Labs).

[Phinnaeus Gage]

On that date in February we will sell cheaper than our competition. This is our promise.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If trust is an issue for you (which I understand why it might be) keep reading this thread and you'll see happy customers. Maybe then you'll change your mind.

[OleOle]

Do you have any more renders?





Wa-hahaha   

stop it, these guys have paid a lot of money to these crooks.

Indeed, crooks with renders.

At least now they are providing some information, previously they thought renders would pacific the storm of criticism by customers ripped off by the '75% scam'.

That's 25% virtual hashing to the customer with the remaining 75% scammed from the customer due to misconstruing delivery dates.




There was a crooked man, and he walked a crooked mile,
He found a crooked sixpence against a crooked stile;
He bought a crooked cat which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all lived together in a little crooked house.