Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[raskul]

the thot plickens.

[Unacceptable]

I don't know whether to post this, sorry if it seems rude, but I feel I must say it as a potential customer...

Why can't you use your talents to develop something using the ASIC platform? I for one am waiting for the dust to settle and will be looking to buy into ASIC technology once there are units on warehouse shelves. I am not particularly interested in massive profits, just a little profit plus the satisfaction of mining for the resilience of the network. I am under the impression that the Avalon's custom ASIC chips are/will be available in bulk to people such as yourselves, and the developers specifically want this technology to be distributed.

The issue of electricity cost vs. mining revenue will be making new investment into FPGAs too risky for me, sorry

We are looking into developing an ASIC but we won't sell them until we have a working product.

Power consumption is not such a big issue for FPGA. They use only a little bit more than ASIC.

As many times as I've read similar, Roger Ver should erect a billboard depicting such verbiage.

You guys want to see an amazing graph?: https://blockchain.info/charts/received-per-day?address=1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7

It stems from one of Black Arrow's wallet address: https://blockchain.info/address/1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7 They better hope that that's not their only wallet, otherwise they're in a heap of trouble.

This is how I found it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130428000608/http://www.cardreaderfactory.com/shop/lancelot.html

First deposit was on Oct. 19, 2012, and currently has $78,472.50 USD in it for anybody seeking a refund from Black Arrow. And, if that's not enough, you'll soon learn once you visit the address above that Black Arrow is garnering 5 BTC every two days via mining income while its investomers are in a holding pattern till May. Doing some quick math, that'll be 5 X 30 X 600 = ~$90,000 USD he'll receive during the next 60 days, while his investomers will only be earning (more quick math, so please check my work) 0 X 0 X 600 X (# of rigs ordered) = 0 during the same timeframe.

Now, I'm no MENSA dude, but to me the investomer's ROI is not looking too good at this penning, while Black Arrow is swimming in bitcoins, all the while checking his margins to see if he could honor any refunds. Perhaps, it's just some Romanian thing, and I'm simply a fuckin' idiot wasting my life away on this here laptop living in my dead mother's van down by the up-the-creek-sans-a-paddle.

~TMIBTCITW

Welcome back Phin 

[tokona]

So they are mining at around 15TH/s as we speak. What are they using to mine? Bitfurries? And why isn't that mining power being allocated to their customers?

wouldn't surprise me at all.   I asked early on in this debacle if they were mining for themselves and got the BA cricket choir response.   they manufacture mining equipment, so it seems pretty logical that there's something hashing away.

if it is true and this this is going straight into their pockets while their customers are sinking fast I wouldn't be shocked one bit.  based on their actions to date I have little little doubt that they do not give a damn about their customers.


they're still showing bitfuries as in stock:  https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/40ghash-16x-bitfury-hashing-board.html


see this topic on their forum, started Jan 17, where a customer is asking why his delivery date has been changed to May:

http://ecointalk.net/topic/422-my-order-delivery-date-has-changed-to-may-why/


BA didn't actually announce this delay until when, the 29th I think, when they sent out that official e-mail.  when did they really know there was going to be a delay, I have to wonder.  They were still booking orders right through that Jan 29 date, as far as I know, without letting prospective customers know of any potential issues whatsoever, which, unless that thread above was just some odd coincidence, they absolutely knew about while still feeding their customers and prospective customers the BS song and dance.

we're on track, or a little ahead, last I heard.  blah, blah, blah.  we're still taking orders for batch 2.  blah, blah, blah.  look, here's a new rendering.  blah, blah, blah.  we're in this for the long term.  blah, blah, blah.    we care about our customers.  blah, blah, blah.   


and to this day still no clear statement on refunds.  blah, blah, blech.

But, give credit where credit is due, for they have recognizing a troll when they see one down to a science, deleting every one of my posts in this thread, albeit they're a tad behind, probably waiting till their last Bucharestica is the Bestica hookah session wears off. (full disclosure: while seeking humor for the latter part of that sentence, I just learnt that Romania also legalized the smoking of a certain plant, whereupon Matt, when he reads this, will go, "Wait, what! Hehehe!")

"Romania also legalized the smoking of a certain plant" That is great, if that is true, maybe the best news in this thread!

[sticky]

quiet in here......

[bobsag3]

Latest UPDATE from BA

Progress update - 20 Feb 2014
1.Following Verisilicon’s tapeout final review meeting it was decided that they need to update the IO and metal according to Analog IO team requirement. VeriSilicon needs additional 36 hours to extract the final specification of GDS and run STA. At the same time FE needs to run POSTSim based on the final Netlist. As this is a 100 million gate design it requires intensive CPU support. VeriSilicon agreed to work over the weekend to maintain our working schedule and are confident that the files will be sent to the factory in 36 hours.
2.We finished the hash board for X1. We will review and send to the factory tomorrow. The board was designed for a maximum of 160A (exceeding the 88A @ 0.85V required).
3.Each X3 module will use 5 hashboards and will have 2 Minion ASICs. This solution was chosen to support the high current (up to 33 Amperes @ 12V) required by the power chips. Another issue which we had to overcome was the fact that the smaller connectors already available on the market were either too big or had too few pins to support a single ASIC hash board 35mm wide. We are in the process of designing 2 different boards for the X3 hashboard: 2 x 160A and 2 x 200A to support extreme overclocking. The final decision of which PCB we will use will be taken after we’ve tested the real silicon.
4.We have finished the control board for X1 & X3 and will send it tomorrow to the factory. 3 months ago we decided against using Raspberry PI or Beagle Bone. RPI proved too unreliable during extensive usage and none of them would satisfy our requirements. We’ve opted instead to design our own board based on ARM chip. This task was equivalent of designing a whole new Raspberry PI and was major design work. We are convinced that our customer will benefit the extra features.
5.We have entrusted AMKOR for packaging the Minion. We had several meetings last week in order to choose the best package and have decided to go with Stiffener FCBGA instead of Lidded FCBGA as previously announced; this package provides better cooling performance and will have extra capacitors on the substrate.
6.We’ve maintained a very busy meetings schedule with VeriSilicon to clarify the PO and packaging.
7.Following the feedback of our case designers we have hold a meeting with the PSU factory and agreed:
a.To shorten the PSU for the X1 with 10mm in order to get closer to our 200x200x70mm case target.
b.To reduce the height of the X3 PSU by 20mm in order to be able put the Ethernet connector in the back of the case.
8.We have increased the heatsink fins thickness to 0.5mm, asked the factory to produce 2 samples (1.8mm spacing and 2mm spacing).
9.We have met with potential resellers but this cannot go on. We receive so many meetings requests and unfortunately we will have no option but to decline them as our management team has more pressing issues to deal with currently; our commitment is with our existing customers and ensuring the sold products are delivered. We will review this process at later stage.
10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.
11.We have synthesised our FPGA LTC code and it is mining correctly with 4 cores.
12.Our 1st line customer support team are struggling with the volume of messages posted by our customers. We have sent a representative to Philippines for few days for further training. The initial feedback is encouraging, the current procedures are currently under review and we expect improvements soon.
13.The number of the messages on the forum is overwhelming and we are not in the position to address all of it. Despite all of our efforts we’ll only be able to answer only a proportion
14.We have completed the design and manufacture of the banners for the Texax Bitcoin Conference. http://texasbitcoinconference.com/ . This announcement confirms that we will be present there; Minersource, Our reseller from USA, will represent us.

[Airwhale]

What does this mean?

10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

[ChuckBuck]

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

[bobsag3]

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.

[ChuckBuck]

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.

Sorry, misunderstood the phrasing.  I'm guessing this isn't your words, so it can be taken out of context to mean the miners themselves will be beta.

Usually in the tech world, beta means a few months away from production.  Hoping you and BA pull through for us.

[blackarrow]

Here is what I gathered and questions I have...
-Tape Out has not happened and is being delayed by about a day and a half?

Yes.

-All the previous board designs and case designs, and heatsink designs, and fan designs, and power supply designs, and internal arrangement designs were wrong and are being changed.

We take the extra time to make them better. We could have delivered a working version by now but we decided not to sleep on it.

-Boards will be able to handle extreme overclocking, but we will have to supply our own power supplies (I believe we should be given upgraded power supplies as part of the compensation package so that we can run overclocked and have a chance to make positive ROI, but thats just me)

No, the PSU has been upgraded as well. We expect that 1400watt running at 80% load (for maximum efficiency) for 10 minions to yield 1200-1400 Ghash.

Questions?
-Will we get a special update in 36 hours when tape out actually happens?

yes

-What is this "extra feature" prospero?  Is this a different line of chips?  If so, why is engineering time being diverted to this and not to getting your original line completed?  What are the "special features"? 

It's software. Features provided by different team of engineers. We will not announce what it does until delivery.

Will Batch 1 be given free upgrades to this "special chip" for having to wait? 

What special chip?

-For the layman, what does it mean that you synthesised the FPGA LTC code?  Will these be dual miners now?  Or is this a different product line, which again reverts to why is engineering time being spent on other things when you are delayed your customers by over 2 months?

Different product, different engineers, no preorders.

-Is our warranty voided if we overclock the prospero chip? 

If you change the voltage over specs, yes.
If overclocked more than our specs, yes.

For batch 1 people, overclocking seems like the only way to make a positive ROI (or at least have a better chance at it), can we get warrenty for overclocking our machines?  And how about upgraded PSU's that can handle overclocking?

We sell and manufacture hardware. We cannot advice you on your ROI or any other finance/investment issues. A chip will do as much as it has been designed for, not more. We are unable to offer warranty if someone burns their chips while on steroids.

[drinkmorecoffee]

While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.

[FlappySocks]

While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.

Embedding the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi into your own hardware is not a big deal any more.  It hasn't been for some time, only now it's a whole lot cheaper thanks to the introduction, and success of the Pi.  The extra effort just goes to show BA are in this for the long haul.

[raskul]

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  

this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.

[ghcannon]

Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).

[raskul]

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  

this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.

could be.  I don't know that this is the time limiter on this project however.

From that standpoint, as long as we're waiting for things to get built that should have been built 2 months ago, can I suggest we install a beer tap on these things.    The cold beer can be run through the units and used to cool the chips when you're overclocking in order to frantically try to recover your money spent on these.

Of course we know that overclocking, while possible, voids your warranty, so don't do that.  And no-one should expect to get their money back, as this is not a financial services company.  And don't ask for a refund.  Well you can, but you might or might not get it, as we can't figure that out over the course of a month or more.

With this liquor enabled miner at least the end user can get a buzz on while watching their money go down the drain and pondering how a company that names it's currency producing products 'Prospero', can then turn around and tell people they shouldn't expect to prosper from them.

Maybe we should call it Sinkhole at this point.  Truth in advertising and all that good stuff.

their whole update just reads like;

'f*ck you - we have your money, what you going to do about it?'
gotta feel for the guys n gals who put their money into this, whether they get their miners in the end or not is actually irrelevant now.

[tempestb]

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.

[ChuckBuck]

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.

That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

[ChuckBuck]

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.

That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

They answered this question last page, the current production line will not incorporate Scrypt mining.  They are working on a scrypt miner (different project, different engineers) presumably paid by our pre order money...
The surprise they said was software related, but they will not tell us what it is until release.  So....we are back to withholding information.  IMHO releasing as much info as possible is their best bet right now, but they have our money and probably will just disregard that statement.

Understood, hard to keep track with this thread sometimes as it gets derailed by whether Matt Carson takes a dump in Missouri or Colorado or if has a tool shed in Wyoming.  Gets dizzying.

Just want facts, Q&A, not conspiracy theories.

[raskul]

Do you have any more renders?





Wa-hahaha   

stop it, these guys have paid a lot of money to these crooks.

[ghcannon]

Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).

I'll repost this once in a while until I get a response. I really hope it is a typo.