Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

I'm sure #1 on Bob's list is "Where is my money?"

I'm sure he'll be taken care of just like any BA customer.





So, he's got that going for him, which is nice.....

[56k]

Nope pretty sure he gets lube

[Craige288]

Take a look at the difficulty :- https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Looks like someone started a farm but made the mistake of ordering power supplies from BA ! LOL

I know the network fluctuates but could this possibly be our X3s being shut down for shipment?  We will never know!

[notbatman]

One week left in this month... looks like the delay train has plenty of momentum left in it.

September delivery anybody?

[notbatman]

I suspect matt will be bringing back suitcases full of miners this time. The X3 hour glass still has a few grains of sand in it. We can all pray for a BTC market miracle. Maybe alex can do the funny hand shake and play kissy kissy with the guys at opec.

[notbatman]

Cryptocurrency is something from science fiction that's come to pass and it's got us all betting on the future. Our bet of 2Th/s on February 24th was a good bet; 20 imaginary Bitcoins and counting. Times this by all the thousands of orders and oh-my that's enough imaginary Bitcoins to make MK smile.

I can't help but think that all the original X3 hash boards got hooked up to the controllers and PSUs from the bitfury farm they sold off and have mined many of those imaginary Bitcoins into reality.

Does the current X3 use a revised hash board?

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

On their website BA offer X3s for immediate shipping. It means that they have them in stock.

It means they are should be refunding the orders as they promised. They have been ignoring all my e-mails.

I lvie in London. If I don't receive reply by the end of this month I will either pay to solicitor to chase this fraudster up ro I will gather bunch of me Eastern European buddies and pay Alexandru Ion Sovu a visit in Reading, UK.
I bet he has already changed his address but that's not a problem to find out neither.

I've got enough of this bullshit.

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

On their website BA offer X3s for immediate shipping. It means that they have them in stock.

It means they are should be refunding the orders as they promised. They have been ignoring all my e-mails.

I lvie in London. If I don't receive reply by the end of this month I will either pay to solicitor to chase this fraudster up ro I will gather bunch of me Eastern European buddies and pay Alexandru Ion Sovu a visit in Reading, UK.
I bet he has already changed his address but that's not a problem to find out neither.

I've had enough of this bullshit.

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

On their website BA offer X3s for immediate shipping. It means that they have them in stock.

Where did you read this?

>>>> We are still manufacturing this item, it will not be shipped immediately <<<<

If they don't have them then they shouldn't post as "in stock" but as "pre order".
Also in description it is still written that this pre-order is long due "This is a PRE-ORDER (Batch 2), available for dispatch around 15/05/2014".
Also they already shipped miners to Minersource. They have not posted any updates for weeks and completely switched off customer service 2 months ago.

[DebitMe]

The conversation that was posted about 8 pages back between Dan at MS was my email chain.

I have since refused the shipment and it was sent back to them.

If anyone has requested a refund from Minersource and has not received it, please send me a message.

If your order ships, do not accept it, if you accept it you will make it quite a bit harder to get your refund.

Interesting return path. It shipped out from Commerce City, Co. The tracking return the package to Rolla, MO. Which JUST happens to be where Bob and Dan seem to live.

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:
"Preorders

The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order."

If anyone can provide me with some clarity I will really appreciate it.

to start, a companies ToS means absolutely nothing.  They can write whatever they want in it, but if they violate the government laws, they may have as well written them in the sand on a beach, because they are worthless.  Now BA has decided to business in the U.S., the U.K., as well as a slew of other companies whose laws protect the consumer from unfair business practices such as this.  In the U.S. for example, you are allowed to request a refund even after the product is delivered for some period of time (someone can correct me on the exact length of days here as I am unsure off the top of my head) no questions asked.

Now, if a refund request was submitted prior to shipping, it is on the companies responsibility to oblige the request, and shipping the product blatantly ignores that.  Any judge will easily award the customer the lawsuit and make the seller refund for the product.  He should just make sure he has copies of all emails sent to and from BA, as well as copies of when his shipping notice was received and the tracking info.  Now being in China, that complicates things, and a rejected package will probably have a very hard time getting retribution even though the law is very clear.  This is because it can get messy when going international.  But the fact remains, that he has the right to request a refund at any point, regardless of what any ToS say on BA's.

Also, it can be proven that BA very clearly violated their own ToS many times.  The one I am referring to is when they said they needed to cash out the order money to pay for production.  There are many people who have tracked their bitcoins and they are still sitting in the same address that they were sent to, obviously not cashed out by BA.  Just another instance where the scum of the earth company has lied about what they are doing.

[DebitMe]

The conversation that was posted about 8 pages back between Dan at MS was my email chain.

I have since refused the shipment and it was sent back to them.

If anyone has requested a refund from Minersource and has not received it, please send me a message.

If your order ships, do not accept it, if you accept it you will make it quite a bit harder to get your refund.

Interesting return path. It shipped out from Commerce City, Co. The tracking return the package to Rolla, MO. Which JUST happens to be where Bob and Dan seem to live.

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:
"Preorders

The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order."

If anyone can provide me with some clarity I will really appreciate it.

to start, a companies ToS means absolutely nothing.  They can write whatever they want in it, but if they violate the government laws, they may have as well written them in the sand on a beach, because they are worthless.  Now BA has decided to business in the U.S., the U.K., as well as a slew of other companies whose laws protect the consumer from unfair business practices such as this.  In the U.S. for example, you are allowed to request a refund even after the product is delivered for some period of time (someone can correct me on the exact length of days here as I am unsure off the top of my head) no questions asked.

Now, if a refund request was submitted prior to shipping, it is on the companies responsibility to oblige the request, and shipping the product blatantly ignores that.  Any judge will easily award the customer the lawsuit and make the seller refund for the product.  He should just make sure he has copies of all emails sent to and from BA, as well as copies of when his shipping notice was received and the tracking info.  Now being in China, that complicates things, and a rejected package will probably have a very hard time getting retribution even though the law is very clear.  This is because it can get messy when going international.  But the fact remains, that he has the right to request a refund at any point, regardless of what any ToS say on BA's.

Also, it can be proven that BA very clearly violated their own ToS many times.  The one I am referring to is when they said they needed to cash out the order money to pay for production.  There are many people who have tracked their bitcoins and they are still sitting in the same address that they were sent to, obviously not cashed out by BA.  Just another instance where the scum of the earth company has lied about what they are doing.

Thanks for the response. My only issue is that these items weren't marketed as commercial products, rather built to order. This changes which laws apply. If it is actually a built to order product, it would be as if you pay a construction company to build a house, and then once its done, decline payment. If those same rules apply then maybe they aren't required to do refunds. Did anyone hire counsel regarding this matter for clarification? Many people are saying many things and I'm not sure if they did their homework. I have already reported to BBB and FTC, and declined shipment. Unfortunately, I can't afford a lawyer for such a small amount of money, but someone I know with experience says it will be tough because they offered compensation and the units are performing above spec, so the TOS might apply. They then recommended I accept shipment and compensation. I regret ever ordering from BA.

I have done my homework and worked with a lawyer over this.  Thankfully, MS and I were able to come to a mutual decision that we were both happy with and nothing proceeded further than the preliminary meetings with said lawyer.  This is not the same as a house...because these are not houses.  I cannot quote exactly where in the law the difference is (although I know you can back out of a house being built with some stipulations as well), but I would assume these are covered under a completely different set of rules and regulations than consumer products.  Regardless, my previous assessment is true and consulting with a lawyer will lead to the same information.

[DebitMe]

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:

Time and time again the "Terms of Service" have been struck down in the court of law due to conflicting with law. Terms of Service does not nullify your rights.

And the FTC has been VERY specific about this. The FTC is also VERY specific about the rules of refunds. FTC rules state specifically that if a customer requests a cancellation of his order BEFORE shipment, then the seller is REQUIRED to give a 100% full refund. There are NO IF's, AND's, or BUT's about it.

When it comes to BA, I do not know since they are not located in the United States.


[/quote]

If they operate in the US, they must conform to US laws.  Think of it this way, you can sell on Amazon in other countries now and have your funds converted to your local currency.  But, in order to open an Amazon account in those countries, you must follow their laws and open any accounts or receive any business numbers required.  You must conform to the laws of wherever you are selling your product.

[Pentax]

The conversation that was posted about 8 pages back between Dan at MS was my email chain.

I have since refused the shipment and it was sent back to them.

If anyone has requested a refund from Minersource and has not received it, please send me a message.

If your order ships, do not accept it, if you accept it you will make it quite a bit harder to get your refund.

Interesting return path. It shipped out from Commerce City, Co. The tracking return the package to Rolla, MO. Which JUST happens to be where Bob and Dan seem to live.

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:
"Preorders

The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order."

If anyone can provide me with some clarity I will really appreciate it.

to start, a companies ToS means absolutely nothing.  They can write whatever they want in it, but if they violate the government laws, they may have as well written them in the sand on a beach, because they are worthless.  Now BA has decided to business in the U.S., the U.K., as well as a slew of other companies whose laws protect the consumer from unfair business practices such as this.  In the U.S. for example, you are allowed to request a refund even after the product is delivered for some period of time (someone can correct me on the exact length of days here as I am unsure off the top of my head) no questions asked.

Now, if a refund request was submitted prior to shipping, it is on the companies responsibility to oblige the request, and shipping the product blatantly ignores that.  Any judge will easily award the customer the lawsuit and make the seller refund for the product.  He should just make sure he has copies of all emails sent to and from BA, as well as copies of when his shipping notice was received and the tracking info.  Now being in China, that complicates things, and a rejected package will probably have a very hard time getting retribution even though the law is very clear.  This is because it can get messy when going international.  But the fact remains, that he has the right to request a refund at any point, regardless of what any ToS say on BA's.

Also, it can be proven that BA very clearly violated their own ToS many times.  The one I am referring to is when they said they needed to cash out the order money to pay for production.  There are many people who have tracked their bitcoins and they are still sitting in the same address that they were sent to, obviously not cashed out by BA.  Just another instance where the scum of the earth company has lied about what they are doing.

Thanks for the response. My only issue is that these items weren't marketed as commercial products, rather built to order. This changes which laws apply. If it is actually a built to order product, it would be as if you pay a construction company to build a house, and then once its done, decline payment. If those same rules apply then maybe they aren't required to do refunds. Did anyone hire counsel regarding this matter for clarification? Many people are saying many things and I'm not sure if they did their homework. I have already reported to BBB and FTC, and declined shipment. Unfortunately, I can't afford a lawyer for such a small amount of money, but someone I know with experience says it will be tough because they offered compensation and the units are performing above spec, so the TOS might apply. They then recommended I accept shipment and compensation. I regret ever ordering from BA.

these are not custom, built to order products.  this is a mass produced product.  

I would not listen to anyone that doesn't know exactly what they are talking about, and that includes me, just to be clear.  My posts are opinions based on what I've dug up while trying to get my own money back and nothing more.  

as others have said, if their TOS conflict with the law it is meaningless.  end of story.  they can tell you this or that or run you around the mulberry bush, but it's nothing but smoke.

Aside from all that, which really is the end of the debate, what I have seen in terms of this issue of compensation is that if they offer compensation for a delay it is up to the consumer to decide whether or not it is suitable compensation in terms of the compensation offered and the new delivery date. They can elect to accept what are then effectively new terms for the deal or not.  

Just making an offer of compensation is not enough to bind the consumer.  If it were, they could offer you a penny and it would be enough to keep you stuck in the deal, if you see what I'm saying.  

I think it is likely that literally every single customer of this company is sorry they ordered from BA, including the resellers at this point.  Every single one of us has lost a money on this horror-show.

[56k]

Stupid question: When is shipping of X3? 

Come on sir everyone knows it's NEXT WEEK

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

If someone wants to sue the director.

Mr Alexandru Ion Sovu
24 Branksome Court
Prospect Street, Reading
RGI 7XR
Berskshire, UK


He is Romanian, living in UK
His email address is alex27a@gmail.com

All info can be found in the link below
http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf
http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/

[sirsmokesalot]

On their website BA offer X3s for immediate shipping. It means that they have them in stock.

It means they are should be refunding the orders as they promised. They have been ignoring all my e-mails.

I lvie in London. If I don't receive reply by the end of this month I will either pay to solicitor to chase this fraudster up ro I will gather bunch of me Eastern European buddies and pay Alexandru Ion Sovu a visit in Reading, UK.
I bet he has already changed his address but that's not a problem to find out neither.

I've had enough of this bullshit.

Right on man! Time to hold these stupid fucks accountable for what they have done.

[nexus99]

Everyone threatens legal action...  but will anyone actually do it?

[coda]

time for action now ! let the swarm out !

[goozman96]

I would like to see someone take legal action against these toddler engineers and management at black arrow. Perhaps that guy who is out 25k? Keep us posted!

[Craige288]

Everyone threatens legal action...  but will anyone actually do it?

With  $25K on the line!  YES !!!  I've made it very clear to them that this end of month promise is their last chance as far as I'm concerned.

I got the standard, pinch of salt reply as usual.