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Author Topic: Bitminter bitcoin mining pool - shutdown mining 2020-07-01 website 2021-06-01  (Read 324339 times)
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AaronS
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October 23, 2014, 10:02:09 PM
 #241


While your theory is correct the fact is since shift time has changed my earnings have dropped. This appears to be because the shorter shifts have encouraged big time renters to do what must be the equivalent of pool hopping. I would be okay with that if they stayed long enough to find blocks, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Granted my 24/7 408 Ghps is not finding blocks either, but my share is hardly noticeable compared to some of these renters. Is it time for the small miners to give up? Or can someone recommend a different pool?

Big hashers jumping in and out does not affect your pay: it decreases your pay per block but increases the number of blocks found, resulting in the same net pay on average.  Since the pool has been lucky as of late your pay should have been better than normal.  Ever increasing difficulty definitely decreases your pay if your hash rate remains constant.  I think this is where the blame lies for your decreasing pay.

The question about when to "give up" has more to do with your cost per hash than your total hash rate.  If you already own the hardware it's simply a matter of comparing the cost of electricity to run it versus the income it produces.  If you're really lucky and run you equipment somewhere you don't pay for the electricity then there is no reason to stop no matter how low the hash rate is.

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October 23, 2014, 10:08:11 PM
 #242


While your theory is correct the fact is since shift time has changed my earnings have dropped. This appears to be because the shorter shifts have encouraged big time renters to do what must be the equivalent of pool hopping. I would be okay with that if they stayed long enough to find blocks, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Granted my 24/7 408 Ghps is not finding blocks either, but my share is hardly noticeable compared to some of these renters. Is it time for the small miners to give up? Or can someone recommend a different pool?

Big hashers jumping in and out does not affect your pay: it decreases your pay per block but increases the number of blocks found, resulting in the same net pay on average.  Since the pool has been lucky as of late your pay should have been better than normal.  Ever increasing difficulty definitely decreases your pay if your hash rate remains constant.  I think this is where the blame lies for your decreasing pay.

The question about when to "give up" has more to do with your cost per hash than your total hash rate.  If you already own the hardware it's simply a matter of comparing the cost of electricity to run it versus the income it produces.  If you're really lucky and run you equipment somewhere you don't pay for the electricity then there is no reason to stop no matter how low the hash rate is.

Aaron

Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?
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October 23, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
 #243

PPLNS is not vulnerable to pool hopping.

There won't be a ban on part-time mining. If you mine in the pool your work gets paid the same way as everyone else's.

strongenough24 and theweiss could you edit your last posts to fix the quotes? You make it look like people said things they didn't say.

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October 23, 2014, 10:33:12 PM
 #244

Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?

Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution?

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strongenough24
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October 23, 2014, 10:44:34 PM
 #245

Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?

Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution?


Huh? Actually my question was an honest one, not a commentary. I assume the answer is yes? It does appear that shortening the shifts has increased your income. I wish I could say the same for mine.
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October 23, 2014, 10:53:52 PM
 #246

PPLNS is not vulnerable to pool hopping.

There won't be a ban on part-time mining. If you mine in the pool your work gets paid the same way as everyone else's.

strongenough24 and theweiss could you edit your last posts to fix the quotes? You make it look like people said things they didn't say.


Sorry. Posting from my phone was a mistake. But I will say I did not ask for a ban on short term mining. I only said it looks like the shorter shifts have encouraged it.
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October 23, 2014, 11:00:47 PM
 #247

The shorter shifts have made renting more risky.  You have less time to get paid out on your shifts, so with long blocks, the chance of an unpaid shift goes up.  If that unpaid shift is where you spent your money renting, you get nothing.

The increase in renting has more to do with the drop in prices in the rental market than in gaming a particular pool.

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October 23, 2014, 11:11:53 PM
 #248

Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?

Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution?


Huh? Actually my question was an honest one, not a commentary. I assume the answer is yes? It does appear that shortening the shifts has increased your income. I wish I could say the same for mine.

I thought the analogy would make it easier to see that your assumption is incorrect. Why do you think searching for something without finding it has no value or is not a valid effort? I think society would collapse if we started to think this way.

Noone can tell the future and know when the pool will be lucky, so that they can mine here when we're lucky, and leave when the bad luck comes. If you saw them strike lucky once or twice, that's all it was. It doesn't mean they can tell the future.

If they could actually predict the future, then yes, they could mine here only when the pool is lucky and your income would be reduced.

It can't be done.

Noone can tell the future.

It's impossible.

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October 23, 2014, 11:20:05 PM
 #249

If they could actually predict the future, then yes, they could mine here only when the pool is lucky and your income would be reduced.

It can't be done.

Noone can tell the future.

It's impossible.

See Doc, you thought that making a new pool thread moderated would avoid this discussion...

It will NEVER go away, sorry. You get paid as a pool op to explain luck and how PPLNS works over, and over, and over ad nauseam, but they will continue to not believe you. There will always be a fresh round of people that insist.

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strongenough24
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October 23, 2014, 11:22:05 PM
 #250

Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?

Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution?


Huh? Actually my question was an honest one, not a commentary. I assume the answer is yes? It does appear that shortening the shifts has increased your income. I wish I could say the same for mine.

I thought the analogy would make it easier to see that your assumption is incorrect. Why do you think searching for something without finding it has no value or is not a valid effort? I think society would collapse if we started to think this way.

Noone can tell the future and know when the pool will be lucky, so that they can mine here when we're lucky, and leave when the bad luck comes. If you saw them strike lucky once or twice, that's all it was. It doesn't mean they can tell the future.

If they could actually predict the future, then yes, they could mine here only when the pool is lucky and your income would be reduced.

It can't be done.

Noone can tell the future.

It's impossible.


Sheesh, talk about putting words in my mouth. Best I shut-up and go away. Thanks for your time Doc.
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October 24, 2014, 12:34:56 AM
 #251

STRONGENOUGH24:  I'm not a fan of the large hash renters myself.  They do make it look like your getting paid less, but that's only because with their rented power, they're contributing more, which in turn reduces your percentage of the contribution for that block.  However, because of their contribution, it helped find that block faster, which in turn will start us onto the next block sooner allowing us to find that one sooner.  So in the long run, even though your cut on an individual block is less, your getting more blocks faster, so in turn, things level out and your still making the same amount, just in smaller chunks.
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October 24, 2014, 01:13:08 AM
 #252

I think the entire shift thing simply confuses people.  I actually ignore the shift concept when I look at things.  I think if there was a way to eliminate shifts and get paid for your contribution per block, it would simplify things.

block 151 start
12:01am
1am 0 hashes
2am 0 hashes
3am 134 hashes
4am 5000 hashes
5am 576 hashes
6am 0 hashes
7am 0 hashes
8am 0 hashes
9am 0hashes
10am 0 hashes
10:33am block 151 found
10:33am block 152 starts
11am 0 hashes
12:01pm 0 hashes
ect ect ect

say the hunt for block 151 started at midnight and it was discovered at 10:33am hour.
Lets say a pool hopper jumped in during the 3am hour and left during the 5am hour.
His total contribution would be 5710 hashes for the time he spent here.
Even though his time here was short he still contributed some hash to the pool.
His share of pay would be equal to the percentage of his contribution.
Each block requires a different amount of hash to discover.
Say this block only took 11,000,000,000 hash to find.
His pay would be 5710/11,000,000,000*25btc=0.0000129772727273

Now say that block took 24 hours to find, and it took 37,000,000,000 hashes to discover.
The hoppers cut would go down because he only contributed 5710 hashes to that block.
His pay would now only be 5710/37,000,000,000*25btc= 0.0000038581081081

Since the blocks being found is simple chance of luck, time is irrelevant other then to see
How long its taking to find the next block, thusly making shifts pointless in my opinion.
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October 24, 2014, 06:34:39 AM
 #253

 Wink



Howdy,

My very first post here.. I've only been mining about 3 weeks (on an antminer s3).

Doc - I am very impressed with your system.. Whilst it was a 'strange new world' as the start, after some research and reading it all makes sense now.

I have no issues with the payout system. After studying the methods and process it all makes sense to me. 

I am getting slightly less payouts than my first day.. but I understand that the pool size is growing so my percentage is dropping.. the benefit is that we hit more blocks as there's more effort in the pool - so on average my payout if fairly stable.

I do understand the renters concerns.. I guess if their rental expired in the past they'd still get a percentage of income for the next 9 shifts 9x3=27hrs.. where as in the past it'd be 9x10=90hrs.. still - I guess that is the risk of intermittent mining.

Just wanted to say that not everyone has complaints.. maybe a few stickys at the start of the forum that read 'before you complain about payouts/shifts read here'.. that explain the PPLNS and shifts and stuff might help everyone out.

Many Thanks for your fine system
erosco



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October 24, 2014, 07:53:14 AM
 #254

Sheesh, talk about putting words in my mouth.

I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I apologize. Not being experienced with PPLNS you probably didn't see it, but what you said the big renters are doing would require them to know the future.

If you want to know more about pool hopping and mining reward systems you can read here: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping
The top answer is written by Meni Rosenfeld and contains a link to his analysis of mining pool reward systems, which you can read if you want to get into the details.

You get paid as a pool op to explain luck and how PPLNS works over, and over, and over ad nauseam

Noooooooooooo...  Cry

I need to use bitcoin stackexchange more. I can just copy-paste the questions in and let someone else answer for me.  Grin

I think the entire shift thing simply confuses people.  I actually ignore the shift concept when I look at things.  I think if there was a way to eliminate shifts and get paid for your contribution per block, it would simplify things.

I agree it would simplify and I wish it was possible. But what you describe is the proportional reward system, which is vulnerable to pool hopping (see link above).

My very first post here.. I've only been mining about 3 weeks (on an antminer s3).

Welcome to the pool, and thanks for the kind words. Smiley

I am getting slightly less payouts than my first day.. but I understand that the pool size is growing so my percentage is dropping.. the benefit is that we hit more blocks as there's more effort in the pool - so on average my payout if fairly stable.

Yeah, as pool hashrate goes up your average income is the same but the variance decreases. More info here: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/10731/mining-pool-hashrate-effect-on-a-miners-income

But note that your income will be going down if your hashrate stays the same, as the difficulty keeps increasing as long as more ASIC machines are built and start mining.

How fast is global hashpower growing: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
How does that affect you: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/16526/how-does-a-difficulty-increase-affect-a-miners-income

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October 26, 2014, 07:15:28 PM
 #255

Mining server maintenance will take place friday 2014.10.31 from 11:00 CET to 11:15 CET.
Expected downtime 1 minute on each server (mint/us1 and us2).
Only one server will be upgraded at a time.

You will probably not notice any changes. But there are some you may notice:

- Default extranonce2 size 4 (was 6) bytes on mint/us1.
If you don't know what this is then you can safely ignore it.
If you need an extranonce2 size above 4 bytes please set that in your worker settings
at bitminter.com now.

- After the initial rampup when you connect, the server will change difficulty less often.
This should make half-broken clients happier. If your mining client is severely broken, you should set a high minimum difficulty in your worker settings at bitminter.com. For example if your worker difficulty is sometimes 32 and sometimes 64, then set 128 or 256 and you can probably avoid difficulty changes altogether.

- Starting difficulty 16 (was 4)
- Minimum difficulty 4 (was 2)
- Maximum difficulty 524288 (was 131072)
Adjusting settings to follow the development in hashpower. It would have been nice to set starting and minimum difficulty higher, but we have a lot of users with very low hashpower, so let's wait with that a little longer. Remember you can always set a higher minimum difficulty for your workers in the worker settings at bitminter.com. Not normally needed, but very useful if you have a mining client that cannot handle low difficulty or difficulty changes.

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October 27, 2014, 11:10:29 AM
Last edit: October 27, 2014, 11:36:19 AM by Gator-hex
 #256

Did you change the IP address? Having problems reaching mint.bitminter.com and www.bitminter.com.

Code:
Secure Connection Failed

An error occurred during a connection to www.bitminter.com. The OCSP response contains out-of-date information. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_old_response)

The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
Please contact the web site owners to inform them of this problem.

I might have to reboot my router again (I think my ISP might be slowing down my connection or something).  2824ms ping! Roll Eyes

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October 27, 2014, 11:52:58 AM
 #257

Did you change the IP address? Having problems reaching mint.bitminter.com and www.bitminter.com.

No, nothing changed.

Not sure why you get the OCSP error at https://bitminter.com - which browser are you using?

You are also unable to mine at mint.bitminter.com:3333 ? Everything looks normal there, including the number of active connections and users mining.

Are other sites working ok for you right now?

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October 27, 2014, 06:49:36 PM
 #258

Wink



Howdy,

My very first post here.. I've only been mining about 3 weeks (on an antminer s3).

Doc - I am very impressed with your system.. Whilst it was a 'strange new world' as the start, after some research and reading it all makes sense now.

I have no issues with the payout system. After studying the methods and process it all makes sense to me. 

I am getting slightly less payouts than my first day.. but I understand that the pool size is growing so my percentage is dropping.. the benefit is that we hit more blocks as there's more effort in the pool - so on average my payout if fairly stable.

I do understand the renters concerns.. I guess if their rental expired in the past they'd still get a percentage of income for the next 9 shifts 9x3=27hrs.. where as in the past it'd be 9x10=90hrs.. still - I guess that is the risk of intermittent mining.

Just wanted to say that not everyone has complaints.. maybe a few stickys at the start of the forum that read 'before you complain about payouts/shifts read here'.. that explain the PPLNS and shifts and stuff might help everyone out.

Many Thanks for your fine system
erosco






Welcome to the party.  I share your sentiments completely
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October 27, 2014, 08:24:02 PM
 #259

There was a few seconds outage on the main server (mint.bitminter.com) about an hour ago. It was barely long enough for the pool hashrate to drop a bit and go back up.

It looks like it's having some problems again now. I'm looking into it right now.

The second server, us2.bitminter.com:3333 is running normally.

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October 27, 2014, 08:31:06 PM
 #260

Looks like good old DDoS attacks are back.

Some users got blocked along with the attacker as DDoS filtering kicked in.

Should be back to normal again now.

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