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[wpalczynski]

What are these facts you speak of?

What I said is that CN will certainly be attacked in the future.

CN is not a coin. CryptoNote is a technology. XMR is an implementation (clone) of the reference implementation of CryptoNote (aka Bytecoin).

You need to stop dragging all of CryptoNote down when XMR gets attacked via a lone nut or some fundamental flaw in math, even if the XMR currently has the higher market cap. Since you swayed so many people to keep away from BBR, it is your responsibility too if something happens exclusively to XMR (terminally or otherwise).

When AuroraCoin got attacked by BCX, it wasn't an attack on Bitcoin or CryptoCurrencies. It was specifically on AuroraCoin.

I know you know this, but I am just letting you know you cannot wordsmith away, just like you did in the first couple of months to brainwash people into buying into a flawed coin like XMR, the ones who are tirelessly defending it even when facts after facts have stared them straight in the face.

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[NewLiberty]

I keep trying to posit there are other forms of difficulty attacks that can't be defeated with checkpoints. I been hinting at it for many days now.

Certainly there are.  Multipools would be an example, not so much an attack as an unintended consequence of optimal mining.
This has killed coins.

Multipooling is when a large mining pool will mine whatever coin(s) will produce the most revenue in the moment and switch targets as swiftly as possible to optimally mine another coin if the revenue falls.  This can have the effect of ramping up the difficulty on a coin when the pool is mining it, and then after it mines a bunch of blocks, dumping them on the market it has effectively reduced the price, and increased the difficulty, making mining that coin less rewarding... it then switches to another coin.

The coin it just left, is then stuck with a difficulty that its normal miners can not easily achieve, and a crashed market for its coins.

There may be other examples, that's the one that pop into my head at the moment.

What % of hashrate is needed for selfish mining attack?

Theoretically 25-33%.  Selfish mining is more difficult to detect with CN coins than some others due to the anonymity features, and the fast block times.

How much can he amplify his hashrate by hiding it in the 20%?
Remember he said he needed only 20% of the hashrate. Seems obvious to me what he is doing.
Perhaps he can further amplify it by getting miners to join his pools which are gaining an edge in payouts, but I don't assume that is necessary.

I probably do not understand this question very well.

I think you may be asking how much hashrate could be hidden from the difficulty algorithm if it was only used <20% of the time?  I think that there isn't a maximum to that.

It is not obvious to me yet what BCX is doing, it is not obvious to me yet that BCX is doing anything at all.

How will your checkpoints work if his attack catapults his effective hashrate to 51%? He can then ignore the checkpoints and replace with any chain he wants.

If BCX musters >50% there are a lot of things that can be done which would be very harmful and potential coin killers.
Ignoring checkpoints and replacing chains however, is not one of those things.

[slapper]

What are these facts you speak of?

Are you not aware or was this intentionally low key innocence? Normally I check post history, but I have no time ....

Just an example    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797738.0

There are others if you search. Perhaps there needs to be a good concise summary.

[wpalczynski]

Youre joking right?  You are comparing blockchain size?  You know that the blockchain size is based on the amount of transactions dont you?

What are these facts you speak of?

Are you not aware or was this intentionally low key innocence? Normally I check post history, but I have no time ....

Just an example    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797738.0

There are others if you search. Perhaps there needs to be a good concise summary.

[rangedriver]

What are these facts you speak of?

Are you not aware or was this intentionally low key innocence? Normally I check post history, but I have no time ....

Just an example    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797738.0

There are others if you search. Perhaps there needs to be a good concise summary.

This actually was an illuminating dialogue up until the point where the troll showed up.

[slapper]

Youre joking right?  You are comparing blockchain size?  You know that the blockchain size is based on the amount of transactions dont you?

Ah I see. Sorry, I am not trying to put my point across to these type of arguments.

My point was specifically to Risto anyways.

Good luck.

[slapper]

What are these facts you speak of?

Are you not aware or was this intentionally low key innocence? Normally I check post history, but I have no time ....

Just an example    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797738.0

There are others if you search. Perhaps there needs to be a good concise summary.

This actually was an illuminating dialogue up until the point where the troll showed up.

Trolls will show up every time deceiving politicians show up. Just the nature of the game.

[rangedriver]

What are these facts you speak of?

Are you not aware or was this intentionally low key innocence? Normally I check post history, but I have no time ....

Just an example    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=797738.0

There are others if you search. Perhaps there needs to be a good concise summary.

This actually was an illuminating dialogue up until the point where the troll showed up.

Trolls will show up every time deceiving politicians show up. Just the nature of the game.

Good to see you're able to transcend the ambiguity and self-identify.

[TheFascistMind]

What % of hashrate is needed for selfish mining attack?

Theoretically 25-33%.  Selfish mining is more difficult to detect with CN coins than some others due to the anonymity features, and the fast block times.

How much can he amplify his hashrate by hiding it in the 20%?
Remember he said he needed only 20% of the hashrate. Seems obvious to me what he is doing.
Perhaps he can further amplify it by getting miners to join his pools which are gaining an edge in payouts, but I don't assume that is necessary.

I probably do not understand this question very well.

I think you may be asking how much hashrate could be hidden from the difficulty algorithm if it was only used <20% of the time?  I think that there isn't a maximum to that.

0.2/0.8 = 0.25

It is not obvious to me yet what BCX is doing, it is not obvious to me yet that BCX is doing anything at all.

0.2/0.8 = 0.25

How will your checkpoints work if his attack catapults his effective hashrate to 51%? He can then ignore the checkpoints and replace with any chain he wants.

If BCX musters >50% there are a lot of things that can be done which would be very harmful and potential coin killers.
Ignoring checkpoints and replacing chains however, is not one of those things.

Afaics, ignoring decentralized checkpoints should be plausible since the attacker would control the decentralized consensus.

Ignoring centralized checkpoints seems not so sustainable, since you've got to convince others not to run the reference client.

[NewLiberty]

Afaics, ignoring decentralized checkpoints should be plausible since the attacker would control the decentralized consensus.

Ignoring centralized checkpoints is not so feasible, since you've got to convince others not to run the reference client.

Applying the decentralised checkpoints isn't based on consensus though.  It is a decision each miner may make on their own.
They can also be delivered out of band, so DDoS pfft.
It allows each miner to select which chain they like.  

So if BCX forks with TW or other method, that fork ends up back where it started, back in the sandbox along with the little shovels, buckets, and Stoli empties.

There are certain further improvements to this innovation that may yet come, but the rapid response to the only plausible indicated threat (which isn't even all that plausible IMHO) remains an underrated achievement.  BCX shares some of the thanks/blame for this forced evolution.

[JorgeStolfi]

Did you miss the entire discussion about permutations of consecutive independent trials (i.e. not separated by 65 minutes each)?

I saw the lengthy discussion, and I did not see the point of it.

If someone is causing the block rate to be higher than one per minute, that should be detected by counting blocks in some long interval (say, 10 hours) .

If the block rate is OK but the suspicion is that the timing of blocks is being manipulated, that should be detected by plotting a histogram of block-to-block gaps, or of number of blocks in successive 2 minute intervals, again over a long enough period.

Computing the probability of a certain complicated pattern occurring, after seeing it occur, is a tricky business.  The chance of my mother marrying my father was one in two billions or so; that does not mean that my mere existence is a sign that something fishy is going one with the universe...

 

[JorgeStolfi]

Upthread an assertion that the 4 blocks in 1 minute event would occur ever hour was implied to mean "no evidence for" [...]

Indeed it means that the fact "several instances of 4 blocks in one minute" is no evidence for anything.

Surely you know the difference between  "X is not evidence of attack"  and "X is evidence that there is no attack".

[rdnkjdi]

Why are people bumping the thread of the discredited ignored drunk troll (sic)? Why is he still unbanned and free to post threats on this forum?

Although his contributions were real and important I'm disappointed how TFM is giving public-plausible-theoretical-statistical back to BCX, satoshi knows what he said to BCX behind the scenes now.

I am unsure how you wound up not on my ignore list.  But he isn't thread banned because

1 - This is not a moderated thread.

2 - It is not intended to shill for Monero.

3 - Discussion is open to anyone and the goal of TFM is not to make the public feel reassured against possible attacks.  Those are not his motivations & as someone who's interested in a secure coin these discussions bother me absolutely not at all.

4 - Your insecurity about Monero's security being discussed in public is pathetic.

5 - This public discussion, BCX and TFM probing for weaknesses (although I get it - I agree that he shakes lots of sticks at possibilities ... kinda along the lines of "my mom met my dad - that was a 1 in 2 billion chance so something is wrong with the universe).  BOTH of them do more good for Monero than constant meaningless shilling does (IE YOU).

[rdnkjdi]

4 - I dont give 2 tacoshis about your opinion, as far as I know you were heavy anti-xmr troll not a long ago so you are pretty burned on everyones book already

I really don't think you get what the idea of "security of money/blockchain" is all about.  It's not about ignoring threats - it's about pushing them as hard as possible and hoping there is a hole to find & fix.  

BCX - if you're more than a loadass of hot air and actually found something.  Thanks.  You did every Monero holder a favor by finding it sooner rather than leaving it to be discovered later.  

TFM - thanks for looking.  Some of your logic goes over my head, some of it comes across very much like the guy said upthread "My mom met my dad so the universe is amiss".  HOWEVER a second set of very interested, competent eyes from outside the project to probe for possible weaknesses is always appreciated.

You've both done us a service and I'm looking forward to seeing action on the blockchain, seeing what BCX can do.  Or seeing if he's full of hot air.  Either way - we move forward in getting closer to understanding a secure solution for anonymous financial transactions on the blockchain.  Both of you have contributed to this & Monero holders are in your debt.

Nekomata - Feel free to look at my post history.  I've sent 5% of my funds to the devs, I have a thread trying to fix the dev funding problem & I also have a high quality FUD thread.  

You might want to check out dogecoin.  I think it might be more up your alley.  

[NewLiberty]

Why are people bumping the thread of the discredited ignored drunk troll (sic)? Why is he still unbanned and free to post threats on this forum?

Although his contributions were real and important I'm disappointed how TFM is giving public-plausible-theoretical-statistical back to BCX, satoshi knows what he said to BCX behind the scenes now.

I am unsure how you wound up not on my ignore list.  But he isn't thread banned because

1 - This is not a moderated thread.

2 - It is not intended to shill for Monero.

3 - Discussion is open to anyone and the goal of TFM is not to make the public feel reassured against possible attacks.  Those are not his motivations & as someone who's interested in a secure coin these discussions bother me absolutely not at all.

4 - Your insecurity about Monero's security being discussed in public is pathetic.

1 - I can say whatever that is not against the rules plus I don't want to back a terrorist publicly

2 - I can shill Monero if I want and you'll never see what hit you

3 - He is doing harm and adding substance to the FUD and helping the terrorist

4 - I dont give 2 tacoshis about your opinion, as far as I know you were heavy anti-xmr troll not a long ago so you are pretty burned on everyones book already

5 - Please ignore me so I don't need to read your weak, neutral-evil BS attacks.

6 - Welcome to my ignore-list as well.

No one is burned in my book.
In my experience, sometimes the strongest critics can become good allies, and even if they never do, their criticisms and attention to the problems remains useful to me.

[rdnkjdi]

You are like that ppl that say to not care about the NSA because they "don't have anything to hide"

No.  I'm like the people who want to know if a solution is safe from the NSA.  So I welcome the input from characters like BCX & TFM.

You are like ...

[rdnkjdi]

There is no input from BCX

I'd classify ddos @ Poleniex as "input"  

[nioc]

(this soap opera is all about politics?)

 

[nioc]

There is no input from BCX

I'd classify ddos @ Poleniex as "input"  

BCX denied this

disclaimer: reality my indeed be different.  Do not operate heavy machinery. 

[rdnkjdi]

disclaimer: reality my indeed be different.  Do not operate heavy machinery.  

The evidence is pretty damning

. BCX in trollbox posts a link to bitcointalk where he posts with his username "This is to confirm I'm BCX"
. BCX with same username says "I'm about to take poloniex down for 5 min in 5 min".  That happens.
. BCX username is banned from trollbox when poloniex comes back up.
. Another username claims to be BCX - tries to extort poloniex.  People start talking about how BCX committed an official US crime since poloniex is in Montana I think.
. BCX denies it.