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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145799 times)
tbcoin
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July 13, 2012, 07:22:12 AM
 #1341

Now seriously. What is happening? Like many I have my claim fully documented and "marked  as accurate" for weeks. But I'm still with 0 refund.

They have the dollars and only lost a small part of their Bitcoins. Why are doing it so difficult? It takes less time send Bitcoins that write a mail "Marked as accurate."

Moreover it seems absurd that pretend to close positions at 0 profits. Those of us long to take those positions, we bought these bitcoin and bitcoinica still having them, so that these profits are real for they. The shorts,  sold, I don't would consider these lost, but rather that they don't have profit of the price increase.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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July 13, 2012, 07:31:36 AM
 #1342

I'm fearful not to be able to handle the bad news.  Cry

Bitcoin payouts suddenly stopped on wednesday, and now we're told to expect more bad news. Not sure whether to buy pitchforks for the mob or rope for myself. I always assumed everything I spent on bitcoin could be wasted, and initially wrote off my Bitcoinica balance as lost until the payouts began, but this knife-twisting is unbearable.
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July 13, 2012, 07:32:46 AM
 #1343

Now seriously. What is happening? Like many I have my claim fully documented and "marked  as accurate" for weeks. But I'm still with 0 refund.

They have the dollars and only lost a small part of their Bitcoins. Why are doing it so difficult? It takes less time send Bitcoins that write a mail "Marked as accurate."

Moreover it seems absurd that pretend to close positions at 0 profits. Those of us long to take those positions, we bought these bitcoin and bitcoinica still having them, so that these profits are real for they. The shorts,  sold, I don't would consider these lost, but rather that they don't have profit of the price increase.

They have a lots of legal issues to deal with, They have no DB of the balance, they have another venture to work on (intersango)
...
Among other things.  Lots of unknown.
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July 13, 2012, 09:00:57 AM
 #1344

the update... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.0 (it is very bad news - a third of claims money stolen)
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July 13, 2012, 09:37:47 AM
 #1345

Nailed it...

My guess is they got hacked again or Mt. Gox froze their account   Tongue

Convenient, hein?

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July 13, 2012, 09:54:10 AM
 #1346

Nailed it...

My guess is they got hacked again or Mt. Gox froze their account   Tongue

Clearly you took it. Wink

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cryptoanarchist
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July 13, 2012, 10:23:07 AM
 #1347

The bullshit just keeps piling up.

...and yet STILL no scammer tags?!?   Huh
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July 13, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
 #1348

Nailed it...

My guess is they got hacked again or Mt. Gox froze their account   Tongue

<<(in the voice of Neil Young) When I get big! Really big!>> I want to be a Goat. At least there is some good news to come out of all this--a new thread has a started and this one, too, may get locked.

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July 13, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
 #1349

The bullshit just keeps piling up.

...and yet STILL no scammer tags?!?   Huh


Yeah they should have been tagged long ago...

btw: Did anyone already compile a list of the persons involved in this scam and the most important facts?

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July 13, 2012, 10:39:18 AM
 #1350

i am thinking about a scammer tag too.

BUT: after all they are a LP. i think this means that if the company don't have the funds they are not legally obeyed to pay out.

in germany if someone is a "security expert" (justice defines this term) and do very obvious failures in securing the money they are personally liable (or must go to jail).

i dont know NZ/UK laws and i dont know the policy of this forum.

personally i think they all deserve a scammer tag now.
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July 13, 2012, 10:42:27 AM
 #1351

i am thinking about a scammer tag too.

BUT: after all they are a LP. i think this means that if the company don't have the funds they are not legally obeyed to pay out.

in germany if someone is a "security expert" (justice defines this term) and do very obvious failures in securing the money they are personally liable (or must go to jail).

i dont know NZ/UK laws and i dont know the policy of this forum.

personally i think they all deserve a scammer tag now.
I dont think they deserve a scammer tag, but some stupidity tag.
 
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July 13, 2012, 10:57:49 AM
 #1352

i am thinking about a scammer tag too.

BUT: after all they are a LP. i think this means that if the company don't have the funds they are not legally obeyed to pay out.

in germany if someone is a "security expert" (justice defines this term) and do very obvious failures in securing the money they are personally liable (or must go to jail).

i dont know NZ/UK laws and i dont know the policy of this forum.

personally i think they all deserve a scammer tag now.
I dont think they deserve a scammer tag, but some stupidity tag.
 

if they would have filed a police report i would agree (past; i am speaking about the first break in).

but atm we have no chance to know who stole it. could be Tihan itself afterall.
all we know is they owe us money and tell us stories why it is so difficult to pay it back and that they are doing it for charity.

^^ sounds like a typicall scammer.
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July 13, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
 #1353

BUT: after all they are a LP. i think this means that if the company don't have the funds they are not legally obeyed to pay out.
Not necessarily. There is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence . And the way this was handled shows an incredible lack of foresight. Why TF did Tihan have access to the Gox account? Surely that's not because Patrick and Genjix wanted it that way! It could be then argued that Tihan as well as whoever insisted on Tihan having access are criminally negligent.
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July 13, 2012, 11:02:34 AM
 #1354

BUT: after all they are a LP. i think this means that if the company don't have the funds they are not legally obeyed to pay out.
Not necessarily. There is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence . And the way this was handled shows an incredible lack of foresight. Why TF did Tihan have access to the Gox account? Surely that's not because Patrick and Genjix wanted it that way! It could be then argued that Tihan as well as whoever insisted on Tihan having access are criminally negligent.

thank you for repeat the second part of my post in a way a native speaker would understand better Wink
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July 13, 2012, 11:18:08 AM
 #1355

The bullshit just keeps piling up.

...and yet STILL no scammer tags?!?   Huh

Yeah they should have been tagged long ago...

btw: Did anyone already compile a list of the persons involved in this scam and the most important facts?

The last person to post in this thread will forever be known as the last person who ever posted in this thread.

I believe a compilemint was conducted of the parties on this train wreck, albeit shot--also true of the facts--and shot, as in the Magic Short Bus that's taking us all for a ride.

I just started reading the other thread, and had to switch accounts to reply to something I read in the OP. Upon the switch, I noticed a new post here and opted to reply to it and add my comment here from for fear of it may already be addressed there and didn't want to get the proverbial cart before the broken-down alpaca.

Let me see if I have this right. A hacker is able to get funds out of Mt Gox faster than anybody on Earth using only a compromised password.

This went from 100%, everybody will get their money back, to 50% at a time, and now with the latest hack, a possible only 30% total will be returned. This has gone from Bitcoinica's Got Talent to Lost. I say it's about time for Wendon to reappear and have some other password compromised so we get this bitch's payout down to only 3.14159265%--a nice round number.

Full disclosure: I didn't have one Satoshi in Bitcoinica, but long story short, I've indirectly lost/losing tens of thousands of dollars due to this cluster-fuck (perhaps maybe it's why, subconsciously, I created Al to maintain my good-natureness and sanity) due to the fact that I'd turned one guy onto Bitcoin and he took it upon himself to invest in Bitcoinica, doing so with my blessing as possibly his only due diligence. I'm sure he'll be happy to read that he may only get 30% of his money back once he reads that in the new thread. I'm not sure what he had tied up in Bitcoinica, but it was substantial, but in no way will any lost hurt his financial well-being. But thanks to the body of people he hangs with here in Sandwich, Illinois, I now have begun to feel  the blunt force of this fiasco. I've had to close two of my warehouses down due to some new law (was aware it existed and knew I was not compliant but operated under the radar until...best stop here and keep it vague, but will and have PM details).

Done for now. Back to reading the other thread.

~Bruno~
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July 13, 2012, 11:29:08 AM
 #1356

IANAL. But in UK this potentially could be classified as "gross negligence" and this can be used to pierce the veil of limited liability. Absence of timely police report would be a major blow to any attempt to defend this. The fact that the company structure was established so sloppily and immediately before "money evaporation" does not help at all either.

I do think that if this matter gets to courts the limited liability would be pierced and in eyes of the law the individuals behind core whatever and whatever consultancy would be held liable personally. The strategy would be to sue the individuals involved in UK and persuade the court to declare all the silly offshore stuff they came up with as sham, use all the financial promotion laws, get FSA and Financial Ombudsman to investigate them etc... (whatever could work). It might even be possible to attack Bitcoin Consultancy and argue that this is effectively the same company as Bitcoinica Consultancy (the same biz, the same people involved). This is all such a mess and the companies involved are potentially so vulnerable because of skimming (maybe) on the edge of unlawful trading due to multitude of various financial regulation that a good lawyer would likely be able to come up with a very strong case.

If I had significant amount of open bullish bets there I myself would definitely go on legal offensive by now big time and fight for refund of both original deposits, unrealised gains and legal fees. The discovery process would also  be very interesting here.

Moreover, if by some miracle in 10 month time one BTC worth 100$ the amounts at stake would suddenly warrant use of the best lawyers there are.

But I do not have that much money there just about 1000$ of Dialcoin/Bitcoin Magazine funds, which are basically written off by now. So I'll chill.


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tbcoin
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July 13, 2012, 12:02:01 PM
 #1357

...
no comments

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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BadBear
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July 13, 2012, 12:04:34 PM
 #1358

The bullshit just keeps piling up.

...and yet STILL no scammer tags?!?   Huh

Feel free to start a thread in trading discussion and compile all the evidence and people involved into one post. Or just post and bitch about it I guess. 

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July 13, 2012, 02:27:33 PM
 #1359

Here's what I don't understand.

phantomcircuit believes that there are exactly zero other qualified people to process transactions at intersango (this is what he told me - no one else can or will put the attention to detail as he will. Anyone else would make a mess of things. He told me (and in this thread,  all of us) the same about the bitcoinica money.

The problem is, that the work doesn't get done unless phantomcircuit does it.

When you're not going to get your work done, you MUST delegate.

People with control issues immediate state the above paragraph when told their process(es) are too slow and they must delegate.

If you can't delegate, it's because you're having serious control issues. Out of some 7Billion people on earth, it is simply NOT TRUE that phantomcircuit is the only person who could achieve this.

phantomcircuit, you have a SERIOUS control issue. You need to go away,. You are the biggest problem in this process. We'd be better off with the NZ government getting our money back to us. If you don't have control issues, then you're trying to hide something from us, and probably the rest of your team. What are you hiding?  

At least the go government isn't going to play the obvious favorites game phantomcircuit is. (I'm sure this post will delay my payment even further, because, yes, friendly people have gotten their money back, while others who piss him off, have not, and likely will not. He will fuck the rest of you by giving it to the government just before you thought you'd get your money) Just watch. I await the "bad news"

Yeah. This is worse than a scam. But at least we KNOW who;'s in charge of it - he won't let anyone else be. phantomcircuit, you deserve to work at walmart. I hear they're always in need of (front door) security. It's right up your alley. And, matches your qualifications.

On second thought - walmart will rightfully fire your ass when you demand "some fucking respect"  We should fire your ass for that too.

Seriously - do us all a favor and GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY - You're the reason we haven't received our money.

I wish Zhou had been allowed to deal with this. I would have gotten my money MONTHS ago.

hell, phantomcircuit wouldn't even tell me IF he'd returned my money when he requested I "lol remove the rating" I gave him on OTC. He ignored gmaxwell repeating the question. IMO, this signified that he had zero intention of returning my money to me.

If you won't answer a simple question like that, just like all the questions about the ownership that you've refused to answer, and basically any question of significance about this issue - I know you're not telling me the truth about everything. I know you are LYING ABOUT SOMETHING. I just don't know for sure about what. I hope we find out. I hope that we find out when the government(s) get involved and discover the crimes that have been committed.

I know that government involvement won't help me get my money back, and may prevent it - but making sure that these guys can't pull this (incompetent? criminal?) shit again is paramount. They must not be allowed to separate more people from their hard earned money.

This should have been turned over to professionals long ago. Now that phantomcircuit's friends have been paid, I'm sure he's going to say "fuck it" and drop the rest and turn it over to the government. That'll make sure he get what he wants without violating the letter of the law.

It's worth the $500 I've apparently spent to help expose this incompetency, and criminal desire (if not criminal behavior). I'm sure now I'll never see that.

Oh - WAIT...Here's the predictable bad news. THE MONEY IS NOW GONE.

Yep - you guys a fucking criminals. Thieves. Period. NO ONE IS THIS FUCKING STUPID.

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July 13, 2012, 02:32:11 PM
 #1360

I await the "bad news"

The bad news is already here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.0

Another 350K USD stolen from their MtGox account. Patrick has walked away.
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