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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145883 times)
naima53
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June 14, 2012, 04:44:54 PM
 #761

I'm long with btc and closing position @ 5 starting to look like a scam, I'm sure bitcoinica will not survive if they plan to do business again.
Mmmm ... I think they will become stronger and smarter, you'll see in a year - and bitcoinica will bloom and smell better than before ..

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naima53
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June 14, 2012, 04:50:59 PM
 #762

I'm long with btc and closing position @ 5 starting to look like a scam, I'm sure bitcoinica will not survive if they plan to do business again.
Mmmm ... I think they will become stronger and smarter, you'll see in a year - and bitcoinica will bloom and smell better than before ..

rotting meat smell only gets better overtime
I think so, because of human stupidity has no limits  Undecided

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muyuu
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June 14, 2012, 04:54:02 PM
 #763

We should all just buy big, bring valuation up just for the lulz.

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June 14, 2012, 05:15:33 PM
 #764

Mmmm ... I think they will become stronger and smarter, you'll see in a year - and bitcoinica will bloom and smell better than before ..

A turd blossom?

he was trollin, admittedly not the most productive now but he has a point
th(fuck)ank you

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dimitry765
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June 14, 2012, 07:11:41 PM
 #765

Where is my money?

My password was reset by Zhou on the 3rd of april 2012. All my transactions could be confirmed by mtgox.
And I am not verified ? how come?

Is there anyone who had more than 500btc on their bitcoinica account who received payouts?


almackska
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June 14, 2012, 07:57:22 PM
 #766

Received email just now.

"A payment instructions form has been added to the claims page.

Please specify whether you would like payment at a bitcoin address or mtgox voucher.

We will do our best to work with people who would like to receive payment in other ways."



I still haven't received a reply from my email relating to the claim page not recognizing my password (which is saved offline and is 100% correct)
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June 14, 2012, 07:58:53 PM
 #767

Received email just now.

"A payment instructions form has been added to the claims page.

Please specify whether you would like payment at a bitcoin address or mtgox voucher.

We will do our best to work with people who would like to receive payment in other ways."

Got this as well.  Fingers crossed. 

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June 14, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
 #768

If you email me from your Bitcoinica email, I can tell you the status of your claim.

How is this possible without a database?  Something isn't right.

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June 14, 2012, 08:49:26 PM
 #769

If you email me from your Bitcoinica email, I can tell you the status of your claim.

How is this possible without a database?  Something isn't right.

If you filed a claim, you gave them your email address.
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June 14, 2012, 08:58:11 PM
 #770

Received email just now.

"A payment instructions form has been added to the claims page.

Please specify whether you would like payment at a bitcoin address or mtgox voucher.

We will do our best to work with people who would like to receive payment in other ways."

Got this as well.  Fingers crossed. 
+1

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LoupGaroux
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June 14, 2012, 09:37:55 PM
 #771

I do trust that they realize that partial payments to a preferred class of favorites HOWEVER THAT GROUP WAS ARRIVED AT will only serve to infuriate those that were not in the select group. Sorry lads, but when you took on the business you took on the responsibility, and if you have started making payments at any level, you better be making them to everybody who has filed a claim- its YOUR records that are goofed up, through YOUR mistakes and lack of responsibility and reasonable care in handling your investors value. YOUR CRIMINAL lack of responsibility and reasonable care in handling  your investors instruments of value.

If that sounds like junior legalese- its because it is. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that some of your buddies/big investors/round 0 customers get different treatment than others. If it is as bad as you claim, then the only proper course of action is to make proportional restitution to all claimants from all funds available. That includes investment equity from your private placement, that includes liquidating any value for intellectual property that you may have sold/licensed/pledged as collateral in a secondary round of investment capitalization, that includes liquidating any and all physical assets of the concern. That's what a Court will require you to do, and that is where you are heading with this debacle.

And a public pledge that every single one of the incompetents that ran this confidence scheme into the ground will never again offer any kind of a speculative "investment" scheme to the bitcoin world would be a very nice touch.

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June 14, 2012, 10:06:41 PM
 #772

I do trust that they realize that partial payments to a preferred class of favorites HOWEVER THAT GROUP WAS ARRIVED AT will only serve to infuriate those that were not in the select group. Sorry lads, but when you took on the business you took on the responsibility, and if you have started making payments at any level, you better be making them to everybody who has filed a claim- its YOUR records that are goofed up, through YOUR mistakes and lack of responsibility and reasonable care in handling your investors value. YOUR CRIMINAL lack of responsibility and reasonable care in handling  your investors instruments of value.

If that sounds like junior legalese- its because it is. You cannot just arbitrarily decide that some of your buddies/big investors/round 0 customers get different treatment than others. If it is as bad as you claim, then the only proper course of action is to make proportional restitution to all claimants from all funds available. That includes investment equity from your private placement, that includes liquidating any value for intellectual property that you may have sold/licensed/pledged as collateral in a secondary round of investment capitalization, that includes liquidating any and all physical assets of the concern. That's what a Court will require you to do, and that is where you are heading with this debacle.

And a public pledge that every single one of the incompetents that ran this confidence scheme into the ground will never again offer any kind of a speculative "investment" scheme to the bitcoin world would be a very nice touch.

+1  Kiss
ninjarobot
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June 14, 2012, 10:19:10 PM
 #773

No database, a huge mass of data (much of it useless) and a number of false claims that could push out legitimate claims. The data makes sense only as a whole which makes payouts difficult (you have to build a case and gather evidence based on the known data). Being careless and paying people without being sure is stupid as you cannot reverse payments if more evidence later ends up contradicting your early guess.

That's why the initial payouts so far have been for only 50%. And only for people we're highly certain of. I support extending that to more, but the others are understandably taking more caution. If people are paid out, then it's realised there is a mistake in our assumptions, that means legitimate people will not get paid (the pool of money for payouts is limited). $1 erroneously paid out, is $1 of someone else's money. The honest and correct decision here is being as certain as possible for people you pay out, and no amount of shouting will speed up the process. The records for making the payouts are incredibly bad and inefficient. It might take 15 mins to check a single person before you realise that the records on hand for that person are useless/contradictory. Now multiply this by 100s of people.

Someone earlier mentioned hiring people but that's not an option here. I would not trust a relative unknown with this data and the time/effort involved with finding a new person who would be competent does not make it a positive tradeoff.

To be fair I do think that genjix is doing the right thing here.

I rather wait and receive my full deposit back if time is what it takes to piece everything together. They only have 1 chance here and they pretty much fucked up with everything else so let them at least to this thing right.

Genjix is in the firing line a lot but he is at least communicating and arguably the person that is least to blame for this entire mess. If you want to direct your anger at someone, direct it at those hiding under a rock and keeping silent during the entire process (Is that Donald!?)

In any case, please keep communicating. Daily factual statements is what we need until (hopefully) everybody has received what they are owed. Also if someone has actually received repayments please speak up so we know that things are actually rolling and not just lip service to stall for time.
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June 15, 2012, 12:11:37 AM
 #774

Received email just now.

"A payment instructions form has been added to the claims page.

Please specify whether you would like payment at a bitcoin address or mtgox voucher.

We will do our best to work with people who would like to receive payment in other ways."



I still haven't received a reply from my email relating to the claim page not recognizing my password (which is saved offline and is 100% correct)

same here.  i insert correct password and i get the error.  i have emailed verify@bitcoinica.com and also PMd genjix no answer yet
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June 15, 2012, 01:23:14 AM
 #775

If you email me from your Bitcoinica email, I can tell you the status of your claim.

How is this possible without a database?  Something isn't right.

If you filed a claim, you gave them your email address.

Ok, and what do they compare that to?  No database means no records.  Are they going by memory?

"Bob is claiming 50 bitcoins, that sounds about right for Bob.  Andy is claiming 70 - that seems a bit high from what I remember..."

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June 15, 2012, 02:16:39 AM
 #776

If you are going to liquidate my position at $5 then I demand that you also exchange my USD account for BTC at the same $5.  This is outrageous.

Agreed.

I was long 10:1 but deposited money in USD.  Going from 5.00 to 5.90 would have nearly tripled my money.  The least you can do is give me 1:1 by giving me BTC instead of USD.
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June 15, 2012, 05:35:54 AM
 #777

If you email me from your Bitcoinica email, I can tell you the status of your claim.

How is this possible without a database?  Something isn't right.

If you filed a claim, you gave them your email address.

Ok, and what do they compare that to?  No database means no records.  Are they going by memory?

"Bob is claiming 50 bitcoins, that sounds about right for Bob.  Andy is claiming 70 - that seems a bit high from what I remember..."
Depiction of claim validation process : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VmGvcbXdk9A#t=118s

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June 15, 2012, 09:49:45 AM
 #778

If you email me from your Bitcoinica email, I can tell you the status of your claim.

How is this possible without a database?  Something isn't right.

If you filed a claim, you gave them your email address.

Ok, and what do they compare that to?  No database means no records.  Are they going by memory?

"Bob is claiming 50 bitcoins, that sounds about right for Bob.  Andy is claiming 70 - that seems a bit high from what I remember..."

There isn't a consistent database.

There are however reports which happen to have a bunch of useful information.

A lot of it's random who it includes and who it doesn't.

I really cannot over emphasis how much work it takes to sort through the available information to vet a claim.
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June 15, 2012, 09:57:53 AM
 #779

If you are going to liquidate my position at $5 then I demand that you also exchange my USD account for BTC at the same $5.  This is outrageous.

Agreed.

I was long 10:1 but deposited money in USD.  Going from 5.00 to 5.90 would have nearly tripled my money.  The least you can do is give me 1:1 by giving me BTC instead of USD.

Hah good luck with that. People want their loses forfeited and their earnings respected at whatever point in time suits them better. Not going to happen.

They said right from the beginning it would be all liquidated at the valuation when this happened. Maybe with some courtesy leeway.

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ninjarobot
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June 15, 2012, 12:27:12 PM
 #780

So, how many customers have received a 50% refund of their account balance by now?
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