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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145639 times)
bremer-btc-user
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June 14, 2012, 01:08:25 AM
 #701

maybe the classical "paper based" business model of the past had some advantages over the modern and "just in time" cloud?

Or maybe we should all be more careful with our bitcoins and not be so hasty to centralize them, especially in risky startups.

If I had to do Bitcoinica again, I would write a script to print out the balance sheet everyday.

this would have been a very good idea six weeks ago...  Undecided

„Würden die Menschen das Geldsystem verstehen, hätten wir eine Revolution noch vor morgen früh.“

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Hexadecibel
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June 14, 2012, 02:14:30 AM
 #702

Fck, the hacker attempted to login to my email that i used for bitcoinica . Google caught it in time and locked my account.

The IP is from Guam.


Your mail doesn't have 2 factor authentication via google authenticator?

I don't think most people use that, unfortunately.
I would like to use it, but is there any way to get around the phone number requirement? I don't need Google to have that.

Yeah, you don't NEED a phone number except for the setup I believe. I remember seeing an option to change the number or remove it.
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June 14, 2012, 03:58:45 AM
 #703

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).
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June 14, 2012, 04:06:13 AM
 #704

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

This for longs (like me) is bullshit ...

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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Maged
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June 14, 2012, 04:11:13 AM
 #705

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).
Well, that does it. None of us will be getting our money for 5-10 years, since lawyers will get involved for sure now.

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June 14, 2012, 04:14:37 AM
 #706

In the grand scheme of things I could give a shit where my open positions were liquidated.  I just want my bitcoins back.  Rather have that than wait around any longer.
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June 14, 2012, 04:15:52 AM
 #707

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).
Well, that does it. None of us will be getting our money for 5-10 years, since lawyers will get involved for sure now.

They dont know who has what.... But they know enoght to liquidate you based on "exact math" Huh

whats going on here?

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June 14, 2012, 04:28:36 AM
 #708

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

You hold our money hostage for a month and now you propose to liquidate almost a dollar than the current price.

OH HELL NO.

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June 14, 2012, 04:31:40 AM
 #709

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

As I understand it, you try to annul the short's losses with the long's profits ? and any extra for you?
Am I wrong? You say that will be liquidated, so it has not yet been done and the market price is far from 5 ...

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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dancingnancy
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June 14, 2012, 04:37:41 AM
 #710

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

As I understand it, you try to annul the short's losses with the long's profits ? and any extra for you?
Am I wrong? You say that will be liquidated, so it has not yet been done and the market price is far from 5 ...

When it went down the interest rates for longs were much lower than short, is this right?  I remember it that way at least.  So, doesn't that probably mean most were long?  This is obviously total speculation on my behalf.
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June 14, 2012, 04:43:59 AM
 #711

The only way to end this without a court battle is to liquidate short positions at 5$ and liquidate long position at 6$ (or whatever the market price is at the time of liquidation or announcement of liquidation). Anything else and half of your customers are going to sue you and for a good reason.

Now only if you made exactly the same announcement about 2-3 weeks earlier as it was suggested...

Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.

It is really now more of a question of whether the veil of limited liability will be pierced or not and whether your investors will end up on the hook to pay damages to those customers that were long and often with a leverage.

Sad story really. Most of this could have been easily avoided.


Disclaimer: no accounts that I had access to had open positions and IANAL.




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dancingnancy
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June 14, 2012, 04:48:30 AM
 #712


Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.
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June 14, 2012, 04:50:30 AM
 #713

Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).
Well, that does it. None of us will be getting our money for 5-10 years, since lawyers will get involved for sure now.

On a plus side in 5-10 years 1-2 bitcoins one might have as some spare change in a frozen account could worth more than whole bitcoinica now.

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tbcoin
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June 14, 2012, 04:57:50 AM
 #714

In one month have had time to liquidate longs at high prices, this would drop the price enough to liquidate short at low prices and little by little everyone happy.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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zhoutong
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June 14, 2012, 05:02:08 AM
 #715


Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.

Long and short positions are roughly equal. But regardless, all positions are exactly hedged. This means that theoretically Bitcoinica's liquidated net assets in USD should not change regardless of market movement. However, in reality, short sellers may have been forced liquidated and there's no way to cover the losses.

Anyway it's a terrible thing to happen. Bitcoinica once had similar issues under management in January when the price booms and our position remains under-hedged (because of a bug in the hedging bot). Bitcoinica was in the edge of insolvency but fortunately I managed to handle that well and got positive returns for the company in that month.

But it's sad because Bitcoinica can't continue operation in the short term so it's really hard to solve problems caused by market movement.

Well yes, this could be avoided.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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tbcoin
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June 14, 2012, 05:09:47 AM
 #716

Are estimated 100k longs and 100k shorts, this month sure there have been times when it could be liquidated the 100k longs suddenly without reaching $5, practically everyone happy, the first very happy, with good profits and the last at least without loss.

Now obviously I want my position liquidated at 5.9

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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TORwallet
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June 14, 2012, 05:18:58 AM
 #717

I'd love to be liquidated at 5.9, but at this point just want my money back to put into other investments.

TORwallet - anonymous mixing bitcoin wallet
http://nci2szjrwjqw2zbi.onion/ or http://torwallet.net/
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June 14, 2012, 05:28:59 AM
 #718

I'd love to be liquidated at 5.9, but at this point just want my money back to put into other investments.

True ... but I'm lot of anger.
Right now the profits of my position is almost the same as the value of my account, for me is enough money.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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dancingnancy
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June 14, 2012, 05:38:26 AM
 #719


Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.

Long and short positions are roughly equal. But regardless, all positions are exactly hedged. This means that theoretically Bitcoinica's liquidated net assets in USD should not change regardless of market movement. However, in reality, short sellers may have been forced liquidated and there's no way to cover the losses.

Do you know that these positions actually have been liquidated? 
dizzy1
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June 14, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
 #720

Not sure if this has already appeared in the thread but from the bitcoinica.com page,

"Claims which have been internally identified as reasonably accurate based on records and for which the ownership of the claim has been determined will receive an initial payment of 50%"
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