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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145651 times)
genjix
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July 03, 2012, 06:41:30 PM
 #1141

Less than 10% of the claims to a point of less than 50% is less than 5% of the total problem addressed. And you are concerned about "making mistakes"? You are still in the statistical deviation fussiness around the issue at 5%, you haven't even begun to fix the problem. At the speed your poor solitary trooper is struggling through this moral swamp of who is being honest and who isn't, who has a reputation or who doesn't, you should get around to beginning to look at refunding the UNDISPUTED US$ accounts sometime in August 2015. With another 3 years to resolve that cluster-fuck you might be out of this right around December 2019.

Nice work! Bravo for the effort! So glad the saviors came along to make this thing all better!

Considering that the base value of ALL underlying bitcoins that you are holding has increased by almost 55% since this theft began, you could comfortably pay out at this level for decades, stringing along the customers that you have scammed, and never touch the principal you hold. Hell, those thousands and thousands of US$ will be increasing at a steady rate too! What a clever routine you boys have worked up here.

I didn't scam anyone. Say how you expect people to be refunded without a database.

We're trying the best we can.

Quote
I am amazed that anyone in this community still listens to a single word from you gangsters. There is absolutely nothing that you have done or said that is anything less than classic textbook scamming. You have lied in reaction to every question, you have mis-directed, re-directed or just fallen off the face of the earth whenever the heat gets turned up. Nobody knows yet who actually is responsible for this disaster, and you seem to pop out another name for the penultimate responsible party every other week, and yet there is always some murky uber-mensch who tells you all what to do based on ethical/moral/legal considerations, although nothing you do reflects anything like ethical, moral or legal behavior. Amazing.

It's a wonder that you don't have the villagers clamoring for a lynching right now, but I guess the promise of a few miserable pennies on the dollar sometime in the next decade is enough to mollify your victims. Sad. Truly sad that polished scammers like this whole set-up flourish here. If there is anything that will kill off bitcoin as a concept- it is the thieving bastards like Bitcoinica. I don't believe for a second that there was any kind of hack here, this stinks like a set-up to pull a huge amount of capital out of the "market" sit on it and make gains while everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off, throw your little programmer Zhou off the Island and steal his work, while turning him into a pariah in the community, so that you can paint yourselves as White Knights.

You sicken me.

Point me to one question where I lied. I've been around all the time, posting answers to questions and answering emails. Also I give the full story as it happened in the OP. Your story is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

As I said, if someone wants to sue then I'll provide my name and details for the police report. No one has taken that offer yet. We are happy to open our books to the relevant authorities. Tihan has also offered up his personal details. We have not acted maliciously once.

Currently I have 200 emails. A scammer would not bother answering and looking up people's claims for them. I also would not be using a crappy IBM Thinkpad T61 if I wasn't short on cash. Our conduct before Bitcoinica has been nothing but exemplary (point me to an occasion where it wasn't), and we've always operated with utmost honesty.

But I guess there is no other way to convince you otherwise, so it is a pointless discussion as you've already made up your mind.

@Transisto, I did say it was a slow process. And actual payouts only begun 2 weeks ago (see the OP). We had to sort out the legal issues with Tihan (who has legal control over the funds), create a claims system, organise all the data and start the process. This isn't something you do in 3 days, but 2 weeks. Consider that it 2 months of legal negotiation with Bitcoinica as to our role we would be taking, and when the hack happened, we we still completing the ownership transfer:

Quote
20:42 <phantomcircuit> tihan isn't like an employee
20:43 <phantomcircuit> he's a middleman
20:43 <phantomcircuit> a finder
20:43 <phantomcircuit> im guessing this huge mess is why he wont be working with him anymore
20:45 <genjix> however you dealt more with tihan, so you know more about everything
20:46 <genjix> i really haven't followed the events, nor read much of the email exchange between donald and tihan
20:48 <phantomcircuit> afaict this is effectively a series of decisions that were made in good faith which were unfortunately poorly thought out
20:48 <phantomcircuit> wendon bought bitcoinica in like october and knew immediately that there were problems
20:48 <phantomcircuit> they went to the coinlabs people but they weren't able to help or reneged on the deal or something i dont know the specifics
20:49 <phantomcircuit> when we got involved in what was it like march? they had been operating for months without a major overhaul
20:50 <phantomcircuit> the paperwork was wrong and tihan was rushing because i think he realized how fucked the situation really was
20:50 <phantomcircuit> then at the worst possible moment the hack happened
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July 03, 2012, 06:46:06 PM
 #1142

One thing is clear..


HIRE HELP!!!!!


I have to agree with a lot of what Loupgaroux is saying to a point..

Dont turn this into the first issue of bitcoin mag..  lol Cheesy

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July 03, 2012, 06:52:40 PM
 #1143

... It is a net loss considering I'm worth $50+ per hour. I charge $200 per hour for consulting work, and here I am spending 20 mins at a time researching claims and answering emails for sums less than $10. ...
Is there something/anything you could outsource by hiring someone ?
...

I think there is a sense of scale missing.  This is like paying 1000$ to fix a problem with 5 000 000$ in collateral damage.

Deepwater Horizon come to mind.
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July 03, 2012, 06:56:45 PM
 #1144

... It is a net loss considering I'm worth $50+ per hour. I charge $200 per hour for consulting work, and here I am spending 20 mins at a time researching claims and answering emails for sums less than $10. ...
Is there something/anything you could outsource by hiring someone ?
...

I think there is a sense of scale missing.  This is like paying 1000$ to fix a problem with 5 000 000$ in collateral damage.

Deepwater Horizon come to mind.

Could you explain this further ?


Im under the impression this is a HUGE problem..

How will hiring help, not help ?


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July 03, 2012, 07:04:30 PM
 #1145

... It is a net loss considering I'm worth $50+ per hour. I charge $200 per hour for consulting work, and here I am spending 20 mins at a time researching claims and answering emails for sums less than $10. ...
Is there something/anything you could outsource by hiring someone ?
...
I think there is a sense of scale missing.  This is like paying 1000$ to fix a problem with 5 000 000$ in collateral damage.
Deepwater Horizon come to mind.
Could you explain this further ?
Im under the impression this is a HUGE problem..
How will hiring help, not help ?
Let's collectively pay Donald / Genjix something better than an old laptop to work on this.
Hire someone to feed and towel wash him while he's working on this 19h/24.
Hire mercenaries to hunt that hacker and recover that DB !!!

Sorry I lack imagination, but it's not like money's missing we're all loosing money every days that passes.  What's missing IMO is someone in charge giving a fuck.

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Tihan has also offered up his personal details.
I'm interested in having this.
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July 03, 2012, 07:09:08 PM
 #1146

Hire mercenaries to hunt that hacker and recover that DB !!!

There was no hacker.  That's why they haven't involved any authorities.

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July 03, 2012, 07:10:57 PM
 #1147

Hire mercenaries to hunt that hacker and recover that DB !!!
There was no hacker.  That's why they haven't involved any authorities.
You said that already, please stick with what you have proof of.
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July 03, 2012, 07:27:39 PM
 #1148

... It is a net loss considering I'm worth $50+ per hour. I charge $200 per hour for consulting work, and here I am spending 20 mins at a time researching claims and answering emails for sums less than $10. ...
Is there something/anything you could outsource by hiring someone ?
...
I think there is a sense of scale missing.  This is like paying 1000$ to fix a problem with 5 000 000$ in collateral damage.
Deepwater Horizon come to mind.
Could you explain this further ?
Im under the impression this is a HUGE problem..
How will hiring help, not help ?
Let's collectively pay Donald / Genjix something better than an old laptop to work on this.
Hire someone to feed and towel wash him while he's working on this 19h/24.
Hire mercenaries to hunt that hacker and recover that DB !!!

Sorry I lack imagination, but it's not like money's missing we're all loosing money every days that passes.  What's missing IMO is someone in charge giving a fuck.

Yes, I work for way below my pay bracket on Bitcoin stuff. Point is that I wouldn't be living like a pauper if I had scammed lots of money. You can check my entire history since 2003 on the internet, and you'll see that I've been working on Free/OpenSource software as a dayjob for 10 years. Those jobs pay far less than proprietary/normal commercial jobs and it's always a struggle. I've never been money oriented or concerned with earning money.

Don't believe what I'm saying? Then google my name 'Amir Taaki' or my nickname 'genjix'. Several times I was living as a squatter, homeless or living out of a backpack. All my programming history is on OpenSource projects.

Also there's many people who can say what my true character is like:

My CouchSurfing page: http://www.couchsurfing.org/people/genjix
Hackathon I organised: http://crystalspace3d.org/main/La_Fibra_hackfest_report (most of those people are on IRC)

Here's a picture from 2008, when I was still a leftist. I was always against greed, but at the time did not understand economics. That control of money is another form of fascism.



My other pics for anyone who wants to play detective: http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/

Here's some writing of mine before getting into Bitcoin: https://n-1.cc/pg/blog/read/44422/jb
https://n-1.cc/pg/blog/read/44421/fss

You can decide yourself whether I am a scammer. A scammer would not be posting here. Also if you read some of the forum posts, some people say they were answered by email that they are accurate, and some were told they were at the end of the queue. A scammer would tell everyone they are marked accurate.

Now it is slow, but the data is incredibly bad. But at the very worst, payouts will be completed within 2 months (or at least the large significant portion of them done). We only have the funds for the site. Mistakes that get made will cost people real money. Mistaken payments will not be refunded (hence the 50% first solution).

I'm inviting people to dug up dirt on me because there is none.

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Quote
Tihan has also offered up his personal details.
I'm interested in having this.

Show me the police report. I'd rather not give people's personal details in public.
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July 03, 2012, 07:48:33 PM
 #1149

There's something with Tihan going on, but I am not following that because it's unneeded drama for me - it seems he got fired, although I'm not sure for what.

Who replaced Tihan as the point of contact for the Limited Partner?

We had to sort out the legal issues with Tihan (who has legal control over the funds)

Who now has legal control over the funds?

USD payments are slower since Donald doesn't have direct access to them (goes through a second person).

Who is the second person?

20:48 <phantomcircuit> wendon bought bitcoinica in like october and knew immediately that there were problems

Who is Wendon? What is his role in Bitcoinica LP?

20:49 <phantomcircuit> when we got involved in what was it like march? they had been operating for months without a major overhaul
20:50 <phantomcircuit> the paperwork was wrong and tihan was rushing because i think he realized how fucked the situation really was

If you guys new things were fucked up from the start, then why you did you mislead the general public with posts like these:

http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/

Quote
depositors can also make a sizable return on investment in the form of interest. The current yearly interest on Bitcoinica for Bitcoin deposits is over 6 percent.

Encouraging people (like me) to put their deposits in Bitcoinica while at the same time you guys knew that things were seriously fucked up is not a moral or ethical thing to do. Also this post made by Donald gave the impression you guys were in control and that the transition had been completed.

Mistaken payments will not be refunded (hence the 50% first solution).

Unacceptable. Basically you are saying: If we make a mistake you pay for it. I did not read this in the Bitcoinica Terms of Service that I agreed to.
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July 03, 2012, 07:51:47 PM
 #1150

Genjix, I have great respect for you, I personally think you should aim higher in life.
Your long term reputation is worth much more than what you can expect to gain from being associated with this.  It may not be obvious that you're protecting them but given that they've been dead silent on the matter ... If it wasn't for your semi weekly forum posts, with no update at all, we'd have surely engaged into coercive means already to get "Tihan" & al. to get a grasp of the urgency.
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July 03, 2012, 08:11:14 PM
 #1151

I agree with Transisto.

With great challenges come great opportunities - If you are able to fix this difficult situation (no db, dysfunctional organization) to your customers satisfaction, then it will only bolster your reputation. After all, you have been one of the few people willing to stand up and take the dirt from the public, who are understandably angry. Please don't take angry posts personally: In the end it is just business and people want to see their money back. Nothing more, nothing less. So please talk business and act business, that is all that is required here. No need to go on personal witch hunts.

That said... Genjix - you *do* realize that your profile on http://www.couchsurfing.org/people/genjix states:

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occupation:    bullshit specialist

;)
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July 03, 2012, 09:56:58 PM
 #1152

Amir-

Please, I am not challenging you as a person, or your commitment to the cause of smashing the State or eliminating debt. A person is paid what he values himself at- if you want to be paid more for your development time, stop coding in industrial squats, promote your skills and work with people who value your ability. Sounds to me like the murky cabal of unknowns behind Bitcoinica has made you their code-jockey and are giving you the crap duties. Yes, you have been more communicative than the other alleged owners, but your communication has not addressed the issues. Stories have changed, directives have been announced that contradict earlier plans, new players have been introduced throughout this disaster... I am not going to humor you by dredging up all the inconsistencies in 65 pages of dialogue, anyone who has been following along at all knows exactly what I'm talking about.

When Zhou was the spokesperson, you were not heard from, now you are the spokesperson but you still can't give an OFFICIAL or CONSISTENT or ACCURATE answer to any of the questions.

Why are you not paying out in full for the funds that you have good clearance on?

What about the US$ funds you are holding- they have never been disputed?

Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility of all of the many tens of thousands of dollars in value you hold in trust?

Instead you keep offering up these little teases of a couple of pennies to this person, a minor payout to another of your select friends on the inside, and you maintain a smoke screen of silliness that you hide behind.

Do you really want anybody in the community to believe that the speed of your laptop is the reason that you haven't made good on 95% of the payouts in bitcoin yet? That's nonsense. I use a ThinkPad 43 as my main laptop for work every single day, and I would be embarrassed to suggest that the reason I couldn't initiate a simple transfer of funds is because that machine is slowing me down. Get Tihan, if he is the leader of this gang, to come forward and speak for his plans and the approach they are taking. Your group makes all sorts of forward looking statements about your knowledge, abilities and financial strength, but all anyone sees is strawmen coming forward to sling the next line of bullshit.

Its been said very well- this is just business. Act that way. Do the proper ethical, legal and moral thing to do and be honest. Don't play the little bluffing game of go ahead and sue me, I'm available... start making some payments, speak only the truth, and if your partners are not willing to empower you to act then out them for it, and demand they come and take the heat. This is the marketplace that you have chosen to work in- you have an obligation to this marketplace to act with integrity and transparency.

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July 03, 2012, 10:06:27 PM
 #1153

hey genjix, I just PMed you something you may want to take a look at.

Take a look at my  machine learning/economics/engineering blog!
www.learningann.wordpress.com
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July 03, 2012, 11:41:31 PM
 #1154

Amir-

Please, I am not challenging you as a person, or your commitment to the cause of smashing the State or eliminating debt. A person is paid what he values himself at- if you want to be paid more for your development time, stop coding in industrial squats, promote your skills and work with people who value your ability. Sounds to me like the murky cabal of unknowns behind Bitcoinica has made you their code-jockey and are giving you the crap duties. Yes, you have been more communicative than the other alleged owners, but your communication has not addressed the issues. Stories have changed, directives have been announced that contradict earlier plans, new players have been introduced throughout this disaster... I am not going to humor you by dredging up all the inconsistencies in 65 pages of dialogue, anyone who has been following along at all knows exactly what I'm talking about.

When Zhou was the spokesperson, you were not heard from, now you are the spokesperson but you still can't give an OFFICIAL or CONSISTENT or ACCURATE answer to any of the questions.

Why are you not paying out in full for the funds that you have good clearance on?

What about the US$ funds you are holding- they have never been disputed?

Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility of all of the many tens of thousands of dollars in value you hold in trust?

Instead you keep offering up these little teases of a couple of pennies to this person, a minor payout to another of your select friends on the inside, and you maintain a smoke screen of silliness that you hide behind.

Do you really want anybody in the community to believe that the speed of your laptop is the reason that you haven't made good on 95% of the payouts in bitcoin yet? That's nonsense. I use a ThinkPad 43 as my main laptop for work every single day, and I would be embarrassed to suggest that the reason I couldn't initiate a simple transfer of funds is because that machine is slowing me down. Get Tihan, if he is the leader of this gang, to come forward and speak for his plans and the approach they are taking. Your group makes all sorts of forward looking statements about your knowledge, abilities and financial strength, but all anyone sees is strawmen coming forward to sling the next line of bullshit.

Its been said very well- this is just business. Act that way. Do the proper ethical, legal and moral thing to do and be honest. Don't play the little bluffing game of go ahead and sue me, I'm available... start making some payments, speak only the truth, and if your partners are not willing to empower you to act then out them for it, and demand they come and take the heat. This is the marketplace that you have chosen to work in- you have an obligation to this marketplace to act with integrity and transparency.

I'm not involved in verifying the claims or refunding customers (if Bitcoinica wants me to I would be glad to dedicate some of my time), but I'm following this thread continuously.

I may not be able to give you some official information, but based on all the sources I have (including some big customers who have close contact with people at Bitcoinica), I can answer some of your questions:

> Why are you not paying out in full for the funds that you have good clearance on?

The team is quite skeptical in making payments. Because the amount of funds is limited (Tihan has exceeded his legal responsibility as a Limited Partner by chipping in *personal* funds, and no more such kind of contributions is available or expected), every cent extra paid to claimants means one cent less for other honest customers. AFAIK Donald doesn't want the team to consider the reputation of the customers so it's assumed that all the money paid out cannot be recovered if it's found to be wrong later.

> What about the US$ funds you are holding- they have never been disputed?

The funding account has sufficient funds to cover the vast majority of the claims. Whether Bitcoinica LP is still solvent depends on the claim verification. After removing the scammers from the list, they may have the funds to cover all the claims. But it's also possible for the company to become insolvent. In that case, Bitcoinica should make fractional payments to customers with less evidence or verifiable data. Again, this is just a suggestion based on my personal value judgement. It's not official.

> Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility of all of the many tens of thousands of dollars in value you hold in trust?

Based on government records, Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd is the General Partner of Bitcoinica LP. AFAIK the owners of Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd are Donald, Patrick and Amir (or possibly Bitcoin Consultancy Ltd). Tihan is a representative of an investment group, which is the Limited Partner. He is never in charge of the company after the corporate reorganization.

I have not received any official information from Bitcoinica for more than a month. So there are nothing more I can comment on. The whole thing is very complicated and I do believe that the team has good reasons for the delay.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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July 03, 2012, 11:55:54 PM
 #1155

> Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility of all of the many tens of thousands of dollars in value you hold in trust?

Based on government records, Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd is the General Partner of Bitcoinica LP. AFAIK the owners of Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd are Donald, Patrick and Amir (or possibly Bitcoin Consultancy Ltd). Tihan is a representative of an investment group, which is the Limited Partner. He is never in charge of the company after the corporate reorganization.

See, I'm not so sure about that. Take the following quote for example:

Now the thing is that for payments to be processed, we need legal authorisation from the person in charge. Tihan denies being in charge, which means his parent company (Core Credit) has to authorise the payments. However Tihan is saying we don't need that.

This seems to indicate that BICOINICA CONSULTANCY is the GP (Intersango guys) and CORE CREDIT the LP (Tihans fund)

However a few weeks after the hack, on May 30 this happened:

Quote
New Company Name BITCOINICA CONSULTANCY LIMITED
Previous Company Name CORE CREDIT LIMITED
Effective Date30 May 2012 12:56:36

The original Bitcoinica Consultancy was withdrawn from government records and Core Credit became Bitcoinica Consultancy (See: http://goo.gl/Lch6E). So who is the GP now? Sure it is still Bitcoinica Consultancy but it appears that behind the curtain there has been a change of guard. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I asked Donald about this over skype 2 weeks ago but he could not answer the question due to the NDA he is under. And other Bitcoinica LP members have largely ignored the issue. e.g:

But it does not matter who is legally in charge right now as the way forwards is clear and everyone is in agreement about what needs to be done. We will make the payments, we now have consolidated all the records and the money.

So it would be good to get an official answer on the question LoupGaroux posed earlier: "Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility?"  
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July 04, 2012, 02:49:08 AM
 #1156

Thank you, Zhou, for continuing to try to offer what clarity you can. Appalling that you are doing this without the support of the folks who are sitting on your creation, I hope you were paid well, and in advance for your interest in this thing.

And how truly pathetic that the only clarity we have is from the very guy who Bitcoinica is dumping the blame off on! Tihan threw in a few personal bucks? Big deal. Bitcoinica is worried about fraud? Why? The increase in value of the bitcoins they are sitting on represents a paper gain of over 58% since the alleged event happened. Spend that 58% gain, and they still haven't touched one satoshi of the principal at issue here! They claim that they have liquidity to cover all legitimate claims, okay- start covering them. Hell, the interest on a CD at a traditional bank for a half million US$ would have made you solvent in the past 50 days, in addition to the gains on the bitcoin side of the equation.

Step up and tell the truth. Be honest about when folks are going to get their money. Stop telling these outrageous stories about he said, then he said, then he forbid... it's a load of crap, and nobody believes you any more. Pay out the US$. There is no question about that. You can easily verify those records, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM WITH THE US$ RECORDS! Loads of good folks have given you clear documentation since the alleged hack concerning their deposits with you, and since you have done absolutely nothing with those funds- the US$ are still sitting there, right? So pay them out.

Otherwise, is there really any other rational avenue of thought than the fact that you are scammers and you intend to make off with the funds? You have no reason to hold anybody's money in US$ at this point. Come clean about what exactly you are doing about the bitcoins, and get this ugly chapter behind you so you can try to rebuild your reputations here.

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July 04, 2012, 03:39:50 AM
 #1157



And how truly pathetic that the only clarity we have is from the very guy who Bitcoinica is dumping the blame off on! Tihan threw in a few personal bucks? Big deal. Bitcoinica is worried about fraud? Why? The increase in value of the bitcoins they are sitting on represents a paper gain of over 58% since the alleged event happened. Spend that 58% gain, and they still haven't touched one satoshi of the principal at issue here! They claim that they have liquidity to cover all legitimate claims, okay- start covering them. Hell, the interest on a CD at a traditional bank for a half million US$ would have made you solvent in the past 50 days, in addition to the gains on the bitcoin side of the equation.





I personally don't like the way you have brought up many things in this thread, but I am wondering the same exact thing.  If BTC price has jumped this amount AND everyone is getting paid back at the price 50+ days ago there should be plenty of coin to pay all BTC back, shouldn't there?

My only guess is that they have never liquidated the majority of positions.  Or they are in the process of doing it slowly.  That's my best guess, I really don't care anymore as long as I get my coins back.  I would be interested in hearing the real story some time in the future, but could care less now.  I know it was dumb, but for some people like me that was pretty much all of my money :/
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July 04, 2012, 03:50:00 AM
 #1158

I'm feeling like I just got Don't Get Zhou Tonged!!! and lost all my bitcoins Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvTkddp1F0

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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July 04, 2012, 04:05:58 AM
 #1159



And how truly pathetic that the only clarity we have is from the very guy who Bitcoinica is dumping the blame off on! Tihan threw in a few personal bucks? Big deal. Bitcoinica is worried about fraud? Why? The increase in value of the bitcoins they are sitting on represents a paper gain of over 58% since the alleged event happened. Spend that 58% gain, and they still haven't touched one satoshi of the principal at issue here! They claim that they have liquidity to cover all legitimate claims, okay- start covering them. Hell, the interest on a CD at a traditional bank for a half million US$ would have made you solvent in the past 50 days, in addition to the gains on the bitcoin side of the equation.


I personally don't like the way you have brought up many things in this thread, but I am wondering the same exact thing.  If BTC price has jumped this amount AND everyone is getting paid back at the price 50+ days ago there should be plenty of coin to pay all BTC back, shouldn't there?

My only guess is that they have never liquidated the majority of positions.  Or they are in the process of doing it slowly.  That's my best guess, I really don't care anymore as long as I get my coins back.  I would be interested in hearing the real story some time in the future, but could care less now.  I know it was dumb, but for some people like me that was pretty much all of my money :/

Correct me if I'm wrong. If Somebody had 100 BTC in Bitconica before the hack, they will not have returned to them the full 100 BTC (50% now/50% later)?

If I gave somebody a 1oz gold bar valued at $1,500 USD and they lost it, but promised to give me a 1oz gold bar in return but since the price went up to $1,800 USD, I will now only receive $1,500 USD in gold, I don't think that would be fair.

~Bruno~
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July 04, 2012, 05:23:55 AM
 #1160

Amir, just a guess ... Maybe we should vote (poll) "to convert all USD balances to bitcoin." ? Payments will be slow, so there is time for a good investment .. Roll Eyes This should affect growth prices and after a while, it will be easier for people to return their USD balances.
 In my claim, I wrote that "I want to get the USD balance in the form of Bitcoin (convert to bitcoin at market price)
 Maybe it's a good idea? (who was the $ 1,000 requirement, also receive $ 1,000, but the growth rates for the B - increase the value of in-kind.)

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