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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145800 times)
chunglam
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July 08, 2012, 12:23:11 PM
 #1221

Just received 40% of my claim amount, I guess they reserved(or sold?) some BTC for the lose of my long position.
Sorry, I have to repeat my question:
Quote
Hi genjix/phantomcircuit,
The base price of my long position is higher than 5.1 and my USD balance is zero, so will you sell my BTC to cover the lose of my long position? @what price? Thanks.

he have answerd that:
longs will be closed at 5.10
shorts will be closed at 4.90
which means if you buyed 10 bitcoin at 6.0, they are going to be sold at 5.1 (ie. you lose money.)

No, I have no issue with the closing long position at 5.1(although I prefer a higher price) but they have no right to sell my BTCs at any price without my authorization
yes they do. if you owe(sic!) them money, they may take some of your btc and sell them.

maybe you should talk to them privately to sort things out... instead of over the forum.

No, they still owe me money.
i know! but you owe them too, if they closed that position, and you have no usd.
if you had some of there stuff, you could sell it to get back some of the money that they owe you.

That's why I ask them at what price they will sell my BTCs to cover the lose, sell @5.1 is not acceptable. I can deposit USD to cover the lose after I get back all my BTC.
try contact them privatly(pm, irc, email, snailmail, meeting in person)!
\

Why? I believe others may have the same situation as me and this is related to payout process.
So I have to repeat the question:
Quote
Hi genjix/phantomcircuit,
The base price of my long position is higher than 5.1 and my USD balance is zero, so will you sell my BTC to cover the lose of my long position? @what price? Thanks.
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Otoh
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July 08, 2012, 01:25:13 PM
 #1222

Genjix, I have emailed both you genjix@riseup.net & bitcoinica.reimburse@gmail.com just now to ask that you review & respond to my claim for swaps compensation that Zhoutong promised to refund 4 months ago in his Bitcoinica thread, many thanks, Otoh

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July 08, 2012, 03:23:25 PM
 #1223

Closing long position at 5.1 ? really ?, I would estimate most position were long ones and I have big doubts that you liquidated all positions right after the hack.
If you did, that was a stupid move because the price would have fallen from the event.  If it didn't, it just didn't rise as much as it should've.

Apart from this week, You did not state once how position would be liquidated, if you did, show me the post, and lets see what price it was.
(7 day after the hack the price was 5.15 and raised ever since with an average of ~5.6

Your website doesn't say shit yet about positions being liquidated and you obviously didn't send an email either.

If gambling with customers money helped you out recover stolen money, on top of Tihan money, FINE, I've more to worry about.
To be honest, every new minutes that passes I'm worried me that you may loose everything on the main wallet.



dancingnancy
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July 08, 2012, 05:28:44 PM
 #1224

Closing long position at 5.1 ? really ?, I would estimate most position were long ones and I have big doubts that you liquidated all positions right after the hack.
If you did, that was a stupid move because the price would have fallen from the event.  If it didn't, it just didn't rise as much as it should've.

Apart from this week, You did not state once how position would be liquidated, if you did, show me the post, and lets see what price it was.
(7 day after the hack the price was 5.15 and raised ever since with an average of ~5.6

Your website doesn't say shit yet about positions being liquidated and you obviously didn't send an email either.

If gambling with customers money helped you out recover stolen money, on top of Tihan money, FINE, I've more to worry about.
To be honest, every new minutes that passes I'm worried me that you may loose everything on the main wallet.





I thought this as well.  ZT, in a previous post, explained that the positions were close to 50/50.  I then asked if they were / when they would be liquidated, no response.  So, yes, I am inclined to believe there is something else going on.  Who cares though, at this point I just want my coins back.  
dopamine
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July 08, 2012, 07:52:43 PM
 #1225

Its all BS they can't close positions without a database...

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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July 08, 2012, 08:27:24 PM
 #1226

Its all BS......

yup...
phantomcircuit
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July 08, 2012, 09:17:31 PM
 #1227

Just received 40% of my claim amount, I guess they reserved(or sold?) some BTC for the lose of my long position.
Sorry, I have to repeat my question:
Quote
Hi genjix/phantomcircuit,
The base price of my long position is higher than 5.1 and my USD balance is zero, so will you sell my BTC to cover the lose of my long position? @what price? Thanks.
Lets say you have 100 BTC, 0 USD and your position has a net value of -10 USD, 10 USD worth of BTC will be sold to cover at current market prices (not at 5.1 or 4.9), so at 6.8(an example) you would be sent 100 - (10/6.Cool ~= 98.5 BTC
phantomcircuit
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July 08, 2012, 09:23:28 PM
 #1228

Closing long position at 5.1 ? really ?, I would estimate most position were long ones and I have big doubts that you liquidated all positions right after the hack.
If you did, that was a stupid move because the price would have fallen from the event.  If it didn't, it just didn't rise as much as it should've.

Apart from this week, You did not state once how position would be liquidated, if you did, show me the post, and lets see what price it was.
(7 day after the hack the price was 5.15 and raised ever since with an average of ~5.6

Your website doesn't say shit yet about positions being liquidated and you obviously didn't send an email either.

If gambling with customers money helped you out recover stolen money, on top of Tihan money, FINE, I've more to worry about.
To be honest, every new minutes that passes I'm worried me that you may loose everything on the main wallet.

That's not really how bitcoinica worked.

A comparison between the net position of all users was used to hedge only the difference between long/short positions.

So at the time the site went down BTC/USD holdings were enough to cover all deposits and all open positions both long and short.

Since the site went down and nobody was able to electively liquidate their position all open positions must be considered closed at the point that became impossible.

Nobody is trading on customer funds as that would be not only illegal but really really stupid.
zhoutong
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July 08, 2012, 11:52:48 PM
 #1229

Closing long position at 5.1 ? really ?, I would estimate most position were long ones and I have big doubts that you liquidated all positions right after the hack.
If you did, that was a stupid move because the price would have fallen from the event.  If it didn't, it just didn't rise as much as it should've.

Apart from this week, You did not state once how position would be liquidated, if you did, show me the post, and lets see what price it was.
(7 day after the hack the price was 5.15 and raised ever since with an average of ~5.6

Your website doesn't say shit yet about positions being liquidated and you obviously didn't send an email either.

If gambling with customers money helped you out recover stolen money, on top of Tihan money, FINE, I've more to worry about.
To be honest, every new minutes that passes I'm worried me that you may loose everything on the main wallet.





Bitcoinica only hedges when there is a change in net position. After shutdown, no change happens so no hedge should occur either.

The open positions for both long and short are almost equal, so there's no profit/loss to Bitcoinica regardless of the liquidation price they set. It can be $100 if they really want to. However, the people with short positions would have been forced to liquidate and there was no way to recover the losses beyond their deposit, it makes sense to choose a price close enough to the market price when liquidation is no longer possible, so that no one will owe anything to Bitcoinica and everyone will be able to get a fair share of refunds.

If you set the liquidation price to $6.5, my estimation is that you'll only get 50% of your money back (unless the shorts pay for their losses by extra deposits, which they won't). For most people they will be worse off.

It's a zero sum game to return the money. Any unexpected benefit for anyone means an unnecessary loss to someone else. What Bitcoinica is trying to do is to make everyone happy with priorities: prevent "real losses" rather than "opportunity cost", making the winners profit less rather than losers lose more.

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chunglam
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July 09, 2012, 12:07:17 AM
 #1230

Just received 40% of my claim amount, I guess they reserved(or sold?) some BTC for the lose of my long position.
Sorry, I have to repeat my question:
Quote
Hi genjix/phantomcircuit,
The base price of my long position is higher than 5.1 and my USD balance is zero, so will you sell my BTC to cover the lose of my long position? @what price? Thanks.
Lets say you have 100 BTC, 0 USD and your position has a net value of -10 USD, 10 USD worth of BTC will be sold to cover at current market prices (not at 5.1 or 4.9), so at 6.8(an example) you would be sent 100 - (10/6.Cool ~= 98.5 BTC

Thanks for your response. but we still have one issue, who will determine the price to sell my BTC? Do I have the option to get back all my BTC and deposit USD to cover the position lose?
zhoutong
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July 09, 2012, 01:29:33 AM
 #1231

Just received 40% of my claim amount, I guess they reserved(or sold?) some BTC for the lose of my long position.
Sorry, I have to repeat my question:
Quote
Hi genjix/phantomcircuit,
The base price of my long position is higher than 5.1 and my USD balance is zero, so will you sell my BTC to cover the lose of my long position? @what price? Thanks.
Lets say you have 100 BTC, 0 USD and your position has a net value of -10 USD, 10 USD worth of BTC will be sold to cover at current market prices (not at 5.1 or 4.9), so at 6.8(an example) you would be sent 100 - (10/6.Cool ~= 98.5 BTC

Thanks for your response. but we still have one issue, who will determine the price to sell my BTC? Do I have the option to get back all my BTC and deposit USD to cover the position lose?

This option should be made available. Bitcoinica team please consider it.

It's absolutely fair to exchange a 10 USD Mt. Gox code with the 100 BTC refund in the above-mentioned situation. No one will complain about the price any more.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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epetroel
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July 09, 2012, 02:20:37 AM
 #1232

Just got 50% of mine back today - half of my BTC and half of my USD - both as gox codes
dancingnancy
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July 09, 2012, 03:04:39 AM
 #1233

Just got 50% of mine back today - half of my BTC and half of my USD - both as gox codes

good to hear
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July 09, 2012, 03:48:39 AM
 #1234

there will be unforeseen consequences//

consequences will never be the same Shocked

(BFL)^2 < 0
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July 09, 2012, 08:11:49 PM
 #1235

Just got 50% of mine back today - half of my BTC and half of my USD - both as gox codes


has anyone else go any usd payments back yet? please reply here and let us know.


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July 10, 2012, 03:40:38 AM
 #1236

Just got 50% of mine back today - half of my BTC and half of my USD - both as gox codes


has anyone else go any usd payments back yet? please reply here and let us know.



I got some USD and BTC back today, both as MTGOX Codes.

It's a little less than 50%, and I've replied to ask the reason.
nrd525
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July 10, 2012, 03:46:29 AM
 #1237

I got back 50% today.

Don't day trade.
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July 10, 2012, 03:50:29 AM
 #1238

Received 50% of my claimed amount, which was approximate and slightly underestimated, but whatever, just happy to be getting something.

Might I suggest sending a small message along with the mtgox code, a standard copy/paste would be fine, for the spam filters. I almost deleted my code Shocked

1D7FJWRzeKa4SLmTznd3JpeNU13L1ErEco
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July 10, 2012, 06:30:49 AM
 #1239

Do I understand this correctly that the GOX codes are being sent UNENCRYPTED through plain text e-mails?

 Shocked Shocked Shocked

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dancingnancy
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July 10, 2012, 06:40:30 AM
 #1240

Got half of my coins back and they also accounted for my trading gains as well.

Thanks so much.  I take back that curse I put on you guys with the Nigerian witchdoctor from Chinatown.
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