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Author Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 145865 times)
tbcoin
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June 09, 2012, 07:07:21 PM
 #461

People, please stop speculating and attacking Bitcoinica / Zhou in this post, I do not know how much money have in game the users who participate in this post, but I just am concerned about the repayment of my account and really I trust that done correctly.
I'm really annoyed by all this, although my net value is only about $3000 right now, for me is a lot of money, read this post is 90% speculation and 10% of useful information ...sucks

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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Phinnaeus Gage
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June 09, 2012, 07:18:48 PM
 #462

Now let's compare all three images

Get a life, Gage, and go find a hooker. Or give Chicago Cabbie his wallet. Either way, don't you have some barns to look at instead of wasting time here?

It looks like somebody is not happy with The Phin.

Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that I should just end my research here, for everything that I'm trying to do is for the betterment of Bitcoin? Not a chance!

That said, try this on for size, all, but I was going to save it for later.

From https://twitter.com/PathOnWay, we have the following tweet, but on https://twitter.com/zhoutong he not once mentioned his birthday on any of the 1,388 tweets on the latter Twitter account. I've searched.

Quote
Many of my friends are having a mcdonald's meal and celebrate my birthday. Forgotten about tomorrow's exam.

And how about this: http://www.crunchbase.com/person/zhou-tong/diff/1/2

Go ahead and click it, for then you'll see that the very first revision was of his birthday. I now ask this very simple question. How the fuck does anybody not remember their birthday? Unless, of course, somebody else created that Crunchbase account.

BTW, tinfoil is now on sale at Dollar General, and I'm well stocked up.

~Bruno~
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June 09, 2012, 07:32:11 PM
 #463



Also, I can't yet figure out for certain how revision 7 was made from 98.197.168.106, an IP address clearly located in Galveston, TX (second quoted text).

http://www.crunchbase.com/person/zhou-tong/revisions
Quote
5/21/12 at 7:06pm   7   98.197.168.106
1/6/11 at 4:38pm           6   120.50.38.252
1/6/11 at 4:38pm    5   120.50.38.252
4/25/10 at 6:51pm   4   27.54.8.140
4/25/10 at 6:46pm   3   27.54.8.140
11/8/09 at 4:52pm   2   117.20.181.203
11/8/09 at 11:59am   1   117.20.151.87

Checking the post logs of zhoutong, he seemed to be out of pocket for 3-4 days during which time the revision was made above (bold). Perhaps on holiday or conducting business, hence the following: (Relative?) http://blockchain.info/ip-address/98.197.168.106

http://www.my-ip-address-is.com/whatismyip.php
Quote
98.197.168.106 IP Address Location Information:
My IP Address:   98.197.168.106
My IP country code:   US
My IP address country:   United States
My IP address state:   Texas
My IP address city:   Galveston
My IP postcode:   
My IP address latitude:   29.2551
My IP address longitude:   -94.8598
My Metro Code is:   618


If you give me an address I can go check it out.  I live off the beach in Galveston.

I've drywalled many of homes in Galveston when I was a drywall contractor in Houston. I remember making love having sex on that beach with a Houston policewomen back in '94. I miss Houston!

Here's the link: http://www.my-ip-address-is.com/whatismyip.php (just plug in the IP address).

~Bruno~
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June 09, 2012, 07:50:16 PM
 #464

What, no Tor nodes in Galveston?!?

Also, isn't "at least" kind of like a wordy way of coding ">=" ?

Thus if someone saw for themselves one percent of the company's funds and saw that the amount they were looking at was actually all by itself regardless of how large or small a percentage of the funds the company actually has equal to or greater than 75% of all the claims so far all added together, wouldn't they use such a term?

That 75% or more of the value of all claims so far was not claimed to have been any particular percent of the total funds the company actually has, was it? If so I missed that part; how many percent of the company's total funds was it claimed to have been?

Sheesh.

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phantomcircuit
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June 09, 2012, 08:09:09 PM
 #465

Why is Bitcoinica not responding to user inquiries over email?
There are a lot of them and we have limited resources to respond.  We're trying to sort through all the claims in the most expedient way possible.

The information we have available is certainly very limited.  It is not even close to a full database backup.

Why was help.bitcoinica.com taken down? (as it was separate from the app)

The dns provider was changed as they were screwing up the DNSSEC records.

Why are updates not posted on the Bitcoinica website?

There isn't a whole lot to say beyond the obvious we're trying to sort out this mess and it's going to take a while.

When will the claims process close?

I'm not sure we could legally close the claims process at all.

How is Bitcoinica dealing with open positions?

All open positions are considered closed, the prices for close will be chosen to be reasonable based on the overall claims picture.
Part of the reason we haven't started to pay claims is that without a high level view of the claims we cannot pick a reasonable close price.

Why the secrecy?

At first there was secrecy in hopes that people would submit more accurate claims if they were unaware that the database and all known backups had been destroyed.

After that it seems like there hasn't been a whole lot of secrecy. (People arguing with each other in an open forum thread isn't very secretive now is it?)
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June 09, 2012, 08:13:37 PM
 #466

...
~Bruno~


Why don't you start a new thread if your is obviously NOT about bitcoinica PAYOUTS ?
I'm sure you know how to do so

ThxBy

“We build but to tear down. Most of our work and resource is squandered. Our onward march is marked by devastation. Everywhere there is an appalling loss of time, effort and life. A cheerless view, but true"
“Most certainly, some planets are not inhabited, but others are, and among these there must exist life under all conditions and phases of development.”

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June 09, 2012, 08:18:00 PM
 #467

Let's put the images (one of each) side-by-side so that we can compare together.



Glasses? Camera covering up chin?

oh man, typical American "all Asians look the same"

its true

poop!
phantomcircuit
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June 09, 2012, 08:27:24 PM
 #468

A few things should be made very clear to everybody.

One of the first things we considered was having a court appointed liquidator.

It was decided that this was not the correct course of action for several reasons, first and foremost it would be significantly expensive and would be a significant delay.

Additionally we couldn't answer how they would treat bitcoin deposits.

If anybody decides to file a criminal complaint you will effectively guarantee that it will be months or even years before anybody sees their funds.

Seriously doing that is not the best way to get you funds back, indeed it is far from it.

As for isis100 there isn't even a record of your being a registered user and you have completely failed to forward any information you have to verify@bitcoinica.com

Again we are working on making this entire process be as fair as possible but the constant pressure from people who as far as i can tell are either just bored and entertaining themselves or attempting to scam funds is making the process take much longer than it should.
phantomcircuit
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June 09, 2012, 08:33:49 PM
 #469

Hey,

I just went to  http://www.bitcoinica.com/ and found some marketing stuff, the one you usually find on expired domains that someone registered for advertising purposes and quick gain on people, that came for the old site.

Does that mean that the domain expired?

Unfortunately the previous domain registrar put incorrect DNSSEC records into com. which is causing DNS to break in strange ways.
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June 09, 2012, 08:34:30 PM
 #470

If anybody decides to file a criminal complaint you will effectively guarantee that it will be months or even years before anybody sees their funds.
can't tell if threatening or sincere...

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
phantomcircuit
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June 09, 2012, 08:36:04 PM
 #471

If you trust me personally, I can confirm that at the time of this post, at least 75% of total claimed value (even including the identified fake ones) is present in Bitcoinica's accounts.

You have previously said that only 20% of total holdings were stolen.  That was 20% of BTC.  That leaves 80%, which is bigger than 75%.

The USD holdings should have been untouched.  Let's assume a 50:50 split between USD and BTC deposits.  That means that 80% of the 50% BTC should be available and 100% of the 50% USD.  In other words: 50% + 40% = 90% of total deposits should be available.

Please someone explain how 90% has turned into 75%.

Further: claimed value should be less than deposited value, since not everyone will have claimed.  That makes it easier to have enough funds to match the claims and yet you've only 75% of that lower number?

Distinctly worrying.

There are a substantial number of apparently fraudulent claims.

Indeed the total of claims submitted is more than was ever held at bitcoinica.

Hopefully that will put in perspective why this is taking so long.
tbcoin
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June 09, 2012, 08:36:47 PM
 #472

Hey,

I just went to  http://www.bitcoinica.com/ and found some marketing stuff, the one you usually find on expired domains that someone registered for advertising purposes and quick gain on people, that came for the old site.

Does that mean that the domain expired?

Unfortunately the previous domain registrar put incorrect DNSSEC records into com. which is causing DNS to break in strange ways.

now seems to be fine, again pointing to Rackspace

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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phantomcircuit
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June 09, 2012, 08:41:46 PM
 #473

If anybody decides to file a criminal complaint you will effectively guarantee that it will be months or even years before anybody sees their funds.
can't tell if threatening or sincere...

Totally and completely sincere.
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June 09, 2012, 08:48:31 PM
 #474

There are a substantial number of apparently fraudulent claims.

Indeed the total of claims submitted is more than was ever held at bitcoinica.

Hopefully that will put in perspective why this is taking so long.

Those of who filed claims haven't received a single e-mail follow-up. There was supposed to be additional fields added to a new claims form so users could provide more information, but haven't heard any follow-up on that either..


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ninjarobot
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June 09, 2012, 09:00:06 PM
 #475

Thanks Patrick for answering some of my earlier questions. There are 2 questions you skipped over though:

  • Is Zhou currently a Bitcoinica employee? Y/N
  • Is Donald Norman the CEO of Bitcoinica Consultancy? Y/N


There was supposed to be additional fields added to a new claims form so users could provide more information

I think those were new fields for their internal claims database for metadata such as %verified, payment status etc. I could be wrong.
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June 09, 2012, 09:07:27 PM
 #476

Trying to buy time, I see ...

I think what people don't realise : the sooner you sue the greater the chance of getting something back.

Leave them and don't do anything and you will never see anything back with the heavy thick veil of corporate secrecy in place here.
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June 09, 2012, 09:08:22 PM
 #477

  • Is Zhou currently a Bitcoinica employee? Y/N
  • Is Donald Norman the CEO of Bitcoinica Consultancy? Y/N

Zhou is assisting on the claims process he remembers information about some of the accounts which we simply do not.

No donald is not CEO of bitcoinica consultancy.

There was supposed to be additional fields added to a new claims form so users could provide more information

I think those were new fields for their internal claims database for metadata such as %verified, payment status etc. I could be wrong.

That's correct the additional fields are internal.  There is a lot more going on with the claims process than users can see.
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June 09, 2012, 09:20:48 PM
 #478

Again, though, help me understand why verifiable information from verified users can't be honored with at least a partial claim.  Are there any claims that you guys have actually verified?
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June 09, 2012, 09:40:33 PM
 #479

There is simply no excuse for your total lack of communication up to this point. People are depending on the money, and you are too hesitant or ignorant to give any sort of useful information. Do you have a fucking calendar??? You are weeks late. Sorry, this is not enough for anyone not to sue you, and/or file criminal complaints. Don't threaten that users won't get their funds back. They already know how that feels. If you don't start to move your arse very soon you will be the one in trouble, we're already out of luck with your brilliant management. And spare us your excuses.

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June 09, 2012, 09:45:05 PM
 #480

I don't like this witch-hunt for Zhou Tong. Please stop it. He is still young and it is unfair to be too harsh. When I was young, I also did many stupid and seemingly unforgivable things I wish I didn't do. Is it really worth ruining the life of a child as retribution? That's so petty.

As for the funds. It is being worked on. Of course we want everyone paid back, but it isn't so easy. Consider that we have run an exchange for nearly 2 years now which has been operating with the utmost honesty and respect, having never been compromised dealing with comparable levels of funds as Bitcoinica. Although we are conservative and cautious in our actions, we acted slowly and deliberately to be sure there were no further disastrous mistakes. The legality of the payments had to be sorted out and checked first, and proper systems had to be developed to enable staff to collaborate and corroborate records to the most accurate possible.

Just under 10% of claims have been verified, and I'm waiting on those payments to be made out soon.
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