BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[thcmakaveli]

When does the ICO end?

In ~3 days

[issie81]

When does the ICO end?

In ~3 days

good to see you here thcmakaveli:)
we both have some good/bad adventures with Cloak xD

[albert_mt]

Great project, I am in 

[superresistant]

 
WHO is the dev and WHERE is the GITHUB ??

[vindyne8]

When does the ICO end?

The ICO phase has reached the half way point.  It ends in 48 hours.  It has sold nearly half of the supply.  Around 500,000,000 coins. There is still time to invest.

[chicken65]

yea, if i wasn't desperately trying to get together money to fix my car, i'd be buying some BAY at this point.

Catch the bus for now Arklan and buy up some of this coin.  
Smart cash is here.

[whetherman]

WHO is the dev and WHERE is the GITHUB ??

David from Black Halo is the lead dev for the project. Some good posts by him the last 10 pages discussing some of the different tech implementations.

[jibble]

When does the ICO end?

The ICO phase has reached the half way point.  It ends in 48 hours.  It has sold nearly half of the supply.  Around 500,000,000 coins. There is still time to invest.

Thanks I think I will pick some up before the price rises again.  It looks like it goes up 1 sat every two hours, is that right?

yeah thats correct, max price will be 300 sat for the last day , think it will be 300 for the whole day of the 15 until end at 13:00 gmt

[fulcare]

Don't despise me I just need to get some fiat in a couple of weeks for bills. I just bought some BTC from fiat and bought some Bitbay, whats the chances I can make a quick turnaround in a few weeks. Basically will the price move much in the next couple of weeks?

[threecats]

Don't despise me I just need to get some fiat in a couple of weeks for bills. I just bought some BTC from fiat and bought some Bitbay, whats the chances I can make a quick turnaround in a few weeks. Basically will the price move much in the next couple of weeks?

No despising here, we've all been there : -)

That much said, I think your time perspective should be in the order of 6 -8 weeks according to the projects' stated roadmap. My own feeling is that delivery of a functioning decentralized marketplace in early January is going to be quite lucrative for those investing now.

[sumantso]

Is this related to NEXXUS? The one who scammed investors through Cryptostocks? They gave out a few dividends, sold their shares and then fled.

Not to sure why everyone seems to think we are related to scammers. We are NOT though. This is a legit project with a legit development manager and some very well connected team members.

Join the revolution.

Saw someone mentioned it ahead and wanted you to clarify. You have to understand with most of the projects being scams we are all very wary.

[NOjust]

When does the ICO end?

The ICO phase has reached the half way point.  It ends in 48 hours.  It has sold nearly half of the supply.  Around 500,000,000 coins. There is still time to invest.

Thanks I think I will pick some up before the price rises again.  It looks like it goes up 1 sat every two hours, is that right?

yeah thats correct, max price will be 300 sat for the last day , think it will be 300 for the whole day of the 15 until end at 13:00 gmt

interesting for this ICO in bter,
just like xrc , but I missed it last time, I will take this one.

[Piston Honda]

I think, I also decided not to invest - except if the DEV answer my questions about real time hardware control and outlines how that will be possible at all with the Blackhalo solution?

I am mainly interested in the IoT offering, but it seems to me the IoT concept does not even exists on conceptual level. If there is not even conceptual solution, I can't see how this project will release a working, blockchain enabled, peer to peer Internet of Things software that controls hardware in real time.

I believe I already answered this, im not able to monitor this thread constantly because I'm usually working. But yeah you can do zero confirmations with multisig because your device or you hold the raw transaction. It depends on the application/hardware. Best that you give me some example or use case and I can explain to you how I would approach it.

This isnt dissimilar from NightTrader multisig engine which I have made. I just dont have any front end for it. Controlling hardware in real time is fairly easy when you know multiple signatures are involved. Add this to checklocktimeverify and you can have outputs convert to different things based on blocks. Handling raw transactions where you hold the other signature can leave you secure with the fact that you can do zero confirmations.

Thanks for your reply.

I am familiar with the green address concept of Bitcoin that requires a third party and allows instant transactions and I believe you are not referring to that. So if your solution conceptually is not that, let see a concrete use case: open a gate in a sport venue where users use their wallet to enter the venue and the gate controller device charges 10 BitBay coin for opening the gate. My understanding is, prior to opening the door the device must know if the 10 BitBay Coin is available for the buyer. The device must ensure the balance is available, it's not a double spending and it's a legitimate transaction, otherwise the door cannot be opened. Once the gate controller device is satisfied the balance is available, and only in that case it opens the gate. How long it takes for the device to verify if there is a sufficient balance on the address, because prior verifying the balance the gate cannot be opened?  In other words, how long the user must stand for waiting the device to perform the service?

If you say so you have worked this out and willing to explain this, I am sure that's the case, and you will have a working solution :-))

One working solution is to have your funds locked before you get to the gate ...  Thus your primary account would have locked funds set aside for public events and interaction with IOT ... So they cant hold your money hostage because the funds are set to convert back to a regular account on the expiration of the lock ... The gate only signs with parties that were confirmed in advance to be honest. Those parties would hold a double deposit contract with the manufacturer too.

All due respect David, this solution isn't practical and such implementation would make the use case completely uncompetitive to existing FIAT or even digital currency payment solutions. Currently payment systems, even the Bitcoin network with green addresses works in ad-hoc manner: you pay at the time of the purchase. In order to buy a pizza, hotel room, concert ticket  there is no requirement to lock the fund to the seller prior to the transaction, not even with Bitcoin. I think such system that you have suggested wont be adopted at all.

I understand your solution would be still anonymous and decentralized, but having so much complication to make a payment to IoT devices would make the solution impractical in my opinion.

This starts boiling down more to logistics.

I disagree. This is not a logistical but a conceptual issue. What you have described is a workaround by asking users to comply with your work around in order to have the luxury of involving with a very-very complicated process.

Anyway, thanks for answering, apart from the IoT part, your solution will be great and I have no doubt you will roll out an excellent smart contract system. I suggest don't involve the IoT it at all. Firstly people have no idea what is it so it doesn't mean anything :-)) and no one is investing in this because the IoT feature, but once someone take a closer look at it, the reaction will be that it is not acceptable for businesses and that reaction could cause more harm than good for the project. Your decentralized market solution is flawless, it is obviously a viable use case, but the hardware industry and hardware integrators will be taking apart the IoT concept and such publicity will hurt your and the project's reputation.

Well this was just an example. Also I should mention that your client would be locking the funds. And its not dissimilar from "Parking" funds in Nubits, we can offer incentive for parking with manufacturers. One method is to use only one manufacturer at first to simplify the distribution. I'm mostly interested in mesh networks to be honest. That is exactly what I discussed with the other players. My solution works, its not "green addresses" per se but I agree even though it works it may not get adopted. That solution works around bitcoins weakness of trustless doublespend problems. What you are describing is a problem inherent in Bitcoin itself so the only other way is to make the device are party to the transaction in some way so it can trust the RAW transaction is valid. This way it doesnt have to wait for confirmations since it knows its holding a signature, hash or something that would prevent you from spending otherwise. Time locks are not permanent, they are only needed to create a connection with the hardware manufacturers server to prove you arent double spending on one of their devices.

So, no offense taken. I have yet to see a better solution. Perhaps I can come up with an additional one later and PM you when I do. After all knowledge should be free. So we are taking baby steps. Just start with what works and let the industry evolve. That solution works for your particular use case. Users can also do a double deposit contract with device manufacturers in advance. Then they would not need to use my above proposed method.

Bitcoin itself is highly flawed anyways, it doesnt have a very advanced scripting system, there is malleability which always needs to be worked around by protocols, there is major problems with botnets and sybil attacks, there is a scalabiity issue that is very complex to confront (im speaking of bandwidth issues in securing the blockchain) and so on.

With that said, they liked my ideas with mesh networks and added it as IoT which is a misnomer. The mesh netowork idea I had was working with hardware but not necessarily in real time. A good example is Blackcoins COLD Staking. This is something rat4 added some RPC calls for. Now I can do multisignature staking in Halo. We could then, use a device with the staker to sign the second sig. So this is a case where you dont need instant confirmations.

 To me, mesh networks are a dream goal if we even get close to that point this project will be a smash hit. So really my impression in starting this project was to start in mesh. If they really want to do this with me, we can change the world so its of great interest to me to see this follow through.

Lets be clear about this roadmap again:

*DEMO Smart contracting client(from BlackHalo)  --- Within a week. Trying to get it before ICO ends but not 100% sure.
*Markets(beta without advanced whitelists but with a kill switch/mod key) --- Within a month or two max. I've been working on this for Blackcoin, they coincide

The last two get worked on simultaneously with Hedging taking precedence:
*Hedging transition with the checklocktimeverify --- this is about a month... we can pull from NuBits, but we are dealing with a larger supply so that math has     to work out to manage all of everyones funds properly. If they pay my dev team I can have them work on this fork BEFORE I finish my markets which would greatly increase the speed in the fork.

*Markets with whitelists/double back on server --- one month after the main markets release. Its not a difficult implementation, its very elegant but there would also be some user interface feedback and bugs we want to respond to. This could delay one additional month so we will have to ask users to behave in our decentralized markets so we don't have to shut it down.

So give the above a total of 3 months. Realize I'm trying to underpromise and overdeliver. And you know I deliver if you read blackcoins subreddit

ONCE we are hedged, we can go for the mesh networks. We will now be capped at a billion dollars(thats my target price anyways) and be able to afford and utilize our connections to the hardware markets and we will indeed create an incentive system for setting up these networks.

Right now I can see what you are trying to achieve and thanks for the clarification.

So far a few of us, potential users and investors posted that the IoT concept seems a bit vogue and it's very questionable how that such hardware integration would work with the Balckhalo system, and generally with decentralized blockchain solutions. You have described a workaround, but also said yourself that your original suggestion to the BitBay team was a mesh network idea, and then it was called IoT. So why don't call it "mesh network" if the focus will be in fact ... on mesh network :-)) I had involved with several crypto projects at investment level that went very wrong for the same reason, the objectives were identified incorrectly, the team delivered different solution what was promised. It's your project and you do as you wish, but why to disappoint (perhaps mislead people) by promising IoT when your goal - very understandably - related to a bigger picture and you will work on mesh network?

I have been involved with IoT related design and implementation projects for years, this area is close to me, but for the given technology, the peer to peer network and the decentralized blockchain the mesh network sounds a more sensible goal. I fully agree with you that it could be game changer. (the very-very smart people of Skycoin work on the same thing) I would change the IoT in the project description to Mesh Network. Right now no one really cares, people who knows you will still believe in the project, but you could avoid lot of problems by defining the goals and deliverables accurately. Later, when the price inevitable drop (see Viacoin) investors start to complain, FUD, etc., and then it will be a huge issue why you work on mesh network if you promised IoT.

Anyway, good luck, I will throw in a few BTCs and look forward to see the mesh network implementation some times next year.

Well thanks for the well thought out reply. I can't help but think your experience in this field and possible an IoT coin gives you a vested interest in saying the above. Anyways, we can certainly change our roadmap to more accurately reflect what I'm planning to do here at Bay. I know they put something on their website too. Like I said before the multisignature solution does in fact work in real time with devices as does being on long term contracts. Its probably not the most consumer friendly solution because either the user or the client software would have to make some sort of arrangement with a manufacturer in advance either contract or lock.

Anyways, yeah I can update the roadmap to reflect my investors interest in Hardware and mesh and tell them about your feedback. Be patient though, im really busy right now and I can't promise you will see their site updated before the ICO ends.

On another topic, Skycoin is a fantastic project and we are watching it very closely. It may be more feasible to do it if Bitcoin was rewritten completely.

It'd be nice to see any update for sure, but understand you're super busy of course not to worry.  I'm going to readup on skycoin too, first I've heard of it.  Looking forward to what BAY will serve up though!!

[amytheplanarshift]

i dont get how you can peg it to $1 / coin ....billion dollar market cap.

because ppl who bought in the ico will dump on you and ruin the peg

everyone is going to want to exit at $1 / coin...so how is this possible

No, not everyone. If you think it's worth more than $1 billion then you would hold. eBay alone has a market cap of $67 billion right now. Why wouldn't a global decentralized marketplace that can do much more than eBay not be worth at least that much?

[Cryptozillah]

I have waiting this one out and just been watching. At this rate it could actually sell out so i grabbed some now after reading the entire thread.

[threecats]

i dont get how you can peg it to $1 / coin ....billion dollar market cap.

because ppl who bought in the ico will dump on you and ruin the peg

everyone is going to want to exit at $1 / coin...so how is this possible

No, not everyone. If you think it's worth more than $1 billion then you would hold. eBay alone has a market cap of $67 billion right now. Why wouldn't a global decentralized marketplace that can do much more than eBay can not be worth at least that much?

Exactly. This is the market position BitBay is aiming at. And basing itself from the start on crypto.

[spookycoins]

Very exciting!

BitBay ICO Has Already Raised 1300+ Bitcoins In 48 Hours

[digicidal]

i dont get how you can peg it to $1 / coin ....billion dollar market cap.

because ppl who bought in the ico will dump on you and ruin the peg

everyone is going to want to exit at $1 / coin...so how is this possible

can you talk more about mechanic behind this? david you seem like a genius, please explain some more than kyou

I believe he was stating that the $1B cap was his 'goal' not that it would become a reality in any specific timeframe... even ebay and Alibaba started out small-ish (though not as small as this is).

As far as pegging the coin to a currency that's possible without requiring $1B in actual capital however.  You can see an example with NuBits and a few others.  I believe he mentioned a fork for a hedging coin as a later possibility, but he also mentioned coin-parking as a possibility as well.  I'm not really qualified to explain probably, but I believe that simply involves a community that is enough involved in the 'business' of the coin to commit to park (make unavailable for spending - like is done with staking but for much longer timeframes) in order to severely limit the float in the market.

So if you have 1B coins in mintage, but 900M parked - the actual market is only 100M coins at any given time.  Adding in the fact that parking prevents 90% of the dumps at peaks, and allows for hard buy-sell walls to remain in place to provide liquidity with limited volatility... you can pretty much peg any coin to any value.  The trick is having enough capital for the walls, having enough cooperation from the holders, and some form of automatic arbitrage bot to assure that all active markets operate within the range.  You can always have off-market sales/buys without concern... just like you do with stocks or bonds.  In reality the biggest trick is coming up with enough incentive for those with large portfolios to keep the majority of their coins parked indefinitely, while still maintaining adequate liquidity in the market for trade to occur readily.

Hopefully David can comment on the (probably numerous) ways I've misunderstood how this works, but I think that's it in a nutshell.

[threecats]

i dont get how you can peg it to $1 / coin ....billion dollar market cap.

because ppl who bought in the ico will dump on you and ruin the peg

everyone is going to want to exit at $1 / coin...so how is this possible

can you talk more about mechanic behind this? david you seem like a genius, please explain some more than kyou

I believe he was stating that the $1B cap was his 'goal' not that it would become a reality in any specific timeframe... even ebay and Alibaba started out small-ish (though not as small as this is).

As far as pegging the coin to a currency that's possible without requiring $1B in actual capital however.  You can see an example with NuBits and a few others.  I believe he mentioned a fork for a hedging coin as a later possibility, but he also mentioned coin-parking as a possibility as well.  I'm not really qualified to explain probably, but I believe that simply involves a community that is enough involved in the 'business' of the coin to commit to park (make unavailable for spending - like is done with staking but for much longer timeframes) in order to severely limit the float in the market.

So if you have 1B coins in mintage, but 900M parked - the actual market is only 100M coins at any given time.  Adding in the fact that parking prevents 90% of the dumps at peaks, and allows for hard buy-sell walls to remain in place to provide liquidity with limited volatility... you can pretty much peg any coin to any value.  The trick is having enough capital for the walls, having enough cooperation from the holders, and some form of automatic arbitrage bot to assure that all active markets operate within the range.  You can always have off-market sales/buys without concern... just like you do with stocks or bonds.  In reality the biggest trick is coming up with enough incentive for those with large portfolios to keep the majority of their coins parked indefinitely, while still maintaining adequate liquidity in the market for trade to occur readily.

Hopefully David can comment on the (probably numerous) ways I've misunderstood how this works, but I think that's it in a nutshell.

Thanks for that. Very well written description.

[RJF]

i dont get how you can peg it to $1 / coin ....billion dollar market cap.

because ppl who bought in the ico will dump on you and ruin the peg

everyone is going to want to exit at $1 / coin...so how is this possible

can you talk more about mechanic behind this? david you seem like a genius, please explain some more than kyou

I believe he was stating that the $1B cap was his 'goal' not that it would become a reality in any specific timeframe... even ebay and Alibaba started out small-ish (though not as small as this is).

As far as pegging the coin to a currency that's possible without requiring $1B in actual capital however.  You can see an example with NuBits and a few others.  I believe he mentioned a fork for a hedging coin as a later possibility, but he also mentioned coin-parking as a possibility as well.  I'm not really qualified to explain probably, but I believe that simply involves a community that is enough involved in the 'business' of the coin to commit to park (make unavailable for spending - like is done with staking but for much longer timeframes) in order to severely limit the float in the market.

So if you have 1B coins in mintage, but 900M parked - the actual market is only 100M coins at any given time.  Adding in the fact that parking prevents 90% of the dumps at peaks, and allows for hard buy-sell walls to remain in place to provide liquidity with limited volatility... you can pretty much peg any coin to any value.  The trick is having enough capital for the walls, having enough cooperation from the holders, and some form of automatic arbitrage bot to assure that all active markets operate within the range.  You can always have off-market sales/buys without concern... just like you do with stocks or bonds.  In reality the biggest trick is coming up with enough incentive for those with large portfolios to keep the majority of their coins parked indefinitely, while still maintaining adequate liquidity in the market for trade to occur readily.

Hopefully David can comment on the (probably numerous) ways I've misunderstood how this works, but I think that's it in a nutshell.

Interesting, nice breakdown, thanks! BTW, I was in on the first hour it was available, too many positives to risk not playing...