GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[Honeycutt22]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

FYI - This guy is a heavy heavy fanboy over at GAW. Evidently hasn't read the supporting documentation and traceable evidence of anything posted on this forum due his heavy bias.

Might have another Bitgeek on our hands.

[alienesb]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

It's one of the official Mt. GAW shills!

[Honeycutt22]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

It's one of the official Mt. GAW shills!

Notice how nothing was provided to support anything GAW does... He's actually participating in exactly what he was attacking...

[Honeycutt22]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

It's one of the official Mt. GAW shills!

Sure - I'm here for the moment... I needed my Friday entertainment.

Let's start a topic called "Ask the Shill"...

Go ahead, ask away. Clearly, from reading all this stuff around here, you guys have no idea what's going on, and your speculations that I know the answers to are wrong, so I'll be happy to answer what I can.

The rules are, the first time someone posts something personally demeaning to me (disrespectful - like calling me a shill (I'll give you a pass on that)) - the session is over. Let's see how long it takes before this degrades into name calling and personal attacks. If I don't know an answer, I'll say so.

Ready? Let's go...

I'll refrain... Cause I would love to you see defend one of the least profitable cloud mining companies in existence.

edit - Also worth pointing out several other threads about GAW are being similarly approached by other hard-core GAW supporters... Very large coincidence if you ask me.

Now I'm not calling anyone anything... But by definition if anyone is on here supporting at the request of GAW you are by definition a shill.

[demonz]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

It's one of the official Mt. GAW shills!

Sure - I'm here for the moment... I needed my Friday entertainment.

Let's start a topic called "Ask the Shill"...

Go ahead, ask away. Clearly, from reading all this stuff around here, you guys have no idea what's going on, and your speculations that I know the answers to are wrong, so I'll be happy to answer what I can.

The rules are, the first time someone posts something personally demeaning to me (disrespectful - like calling me a shill (I'll give you a pass on that)) - the session is over. Let's see how long it takes before this degrades into name calling and personal attacks. If I don't know an answer, I'll say so.

Ready? Let's go...

1) What is the status of the ZenPool "negoitiations"? It was promised by GAW CEO that the pool would return to levels the same, if not GREATER than before. This has been forgotten about...

2) Why can't I use hashpoints to buy new miners? I'm stuck at either collecting satoshis (i believe the maint fees eat up about 90% of payouts) or collecting store credit and having faith on a future project. Wouldn't it benefit GAW to allow me to buy new miners/sell them and they make 10% profit? Atleast it gives people a way out.. but this has been denied.

3) Why aren't there any details as when hashpoints will be converted? Hashcoin.com had a countdown but now it redirects to paycoin with no info about release date but an email update.

4) Why, when asked, does GAW CEO respond "just dont invest with me then" as an answer to any technical questions?  

5) Why do you have so much faith in one man? As far as I can tell, the main supporters of GAW are the early adopters. Those who bought hashlets at 16$, were converted to prime and made ROI already. What do you have to lose? Nothing.... and this is why your are so faithful... but ask the same question to someone who just bought in in october and payouts dropped 90%.

Thanks for your time..

[AtomicFrost]

Sure - I'm here for the moment... I needed my Friday entertainment.

Let's start a topic called "Ask the Shill"...

Go ahead, ask away. Clearly, from reading all this stuff around here, you guys have no idea what's going on, and your speculations that I know the answers to are wrong, so I'll be happy to answer what I can.

The rules are, the first time someone posts something personally demeaning to me (disrespectful - like calling me a shill (I'll give you a pass on that)) - the session is over. Let's see how long it takes before this degrades into name calling and personal attacks. If I don't know an answer, I'll say so.

Ready? Let's go...

Questions:

1. Is there any proof that actual mining is taking place at a 1:1 ratio of hash power sold?

2. Has there been any public evidence that PayCoin is actually close to finishing development? An ever evolving white paper doesn't lend credence that this coin is almost ready to launch.

3. Who are the developers of PayCoin? ZenCloud has had a large number of issues with payouts, deposits, graphs, boost timers, etc. If the in-house development team is having issues with a project like ZenCloud running; I'm worried about the quality of the PayCoin codebase. Not to mention that HashTalk is running on an outdated version of NGINX that's over 7 months old, and has almost daily downtime . . .


EDIT:

4. You stated earlier that "People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it." So what exactly is GAW's business model and the technology they are using? Physical miners? Unregistered securities?

[cmilian]

Hashcoin is going to be a terrible failure at launch or very close to it.

Can you elaborate on that? Like why or how?

Sure.

1. GAW says that major companies will accept Hashcoin
very few major companies accept bitcoin which has been around for almost 6 years.  No company will accept such a new coin

2. GAW says that only primes can mine hashcoin
so much for decentralization or a valid blockchain

3. GAW says white that the hashcoin whitepaper is revolutionary
the actual white paper is terrible and doesn't explain anything


There has been no major increase in alt-coin hashrates.  Where is all of the alleged hashing power from hashlets going?

I think that hashcoin is the end-game for GAW and it is a last ditch effort for them to save face and cash-out before the whole thing collapses.

On Point one. Have you considered that with the right technology one could make Amazon accept BTC, PayCoin or any currency. Amazon does not give a damn what currency you use as long and they get it in USD.

Think out of the box.

[cmilian]

Not only did GAW leave all their directory listings open, how embarressing, seems they are also selling the coins in the ICO for $2 and claiming now $100 a coin.

That's even more embarrassing.

*Homero is Josh's real name incase anyone didn't know.

He has 2 names and both are real.

I typo'd embarrassing with an 'e' instead of an 'a' that's the best that you could do?  

He has two names, neither of which are Josh. Your point?

That's a damn cool name is you ask me.

When calling something embarassing it's important not to embarass yourself.

Josh is short of Joshua - his name.

When calling people out on names pointlessly, it's important to get them right. His name is Homero Josiah.

[Hazir]

Also, GAW sounds like a scam.

Dude, you are promoting your own coin and you are hating on GAW's coin, hypocrite much? Please...

[Honeycutt22]

Not only did GAW leave all their directory listings open, how embarressing, seems they are also selling the coins in the ICO for $2 and claiming now $100 a coin.

That's even more embarrassing.

*Homero is Josh's real name incase anyone didn't know.

He has 2 names and both are real.

I typo'd embarrassing with an 'e' instead of an 'a' that's the best that you could do?  

He has two names, neither of which are Josh. Your point?

That's a damn cool name is you ask me.

When calling something embarassing it's important not to embarass yourself.

Josh is short of Joshua - his name.

When calling people out on names pointlessly, it's important to get them right. His name is Homero Josiah.

LOL - I would call myself Josh too if I had that name.

[kupan787]

Edit for your edit: they will have 2 million by the end of next year, so maybe it's not 1.5 million yet. Actually there was a 100k number thrown around hashtalk, in the context of 2% customers using the forum. So let's say it increased to 200k since then. Also $500 to $1500 might be mostly market sales, so they get only $50-$150 per customer. Does that make it more believable?

My bad. I read it as a couple of million by the end of this year, so ya my numbers are going to be orders of magnitude off  

I'm has also assumed that miners = customers, but he could literally mean miners, i.e. I have bought 1000 hashlets therefore 1 customer = 1000 miners, which would change the numbers as well.

So it's really hard to derive anything, because the word choice leaves it very open to interpretation.

[tomewok]

• I never heard of a company that needs to silence their customers, there must be something seriously wrong with the company to have to do that. - There is plenty of criticism levelled at Josh and how he runs the business at hashtalk, however, the people that are disrespectful and resort to using terms that are accusatory of crimes aren't allowed (it's posted in the rules of the forum). If you do that, you're banned, generally. The hashtalk forums are owned by GAW, so you play by the rules they state when you are there. I don't see a problem with that. If you want to post accusatory stuff you have these forums to do so without being banned.

Man..I was shadow banned by Josh for asking if it was CNN or CCN or both since he made a typo. I've been a member of this community for a few months and always helped people out there, reported bugs instead of abusing it, made translations of his announcement for the people who don't speak english..and now i get slapped in the face.. Not fair if you ask me.

[suchmoon]

What's going on here? Is Hashtalk down again?

If anyone can come up with a logical reason why it might be beneficial for GAW to payout "mining earnings" from new customer payments instead of from actual mining earnings, I will reward you with 1000 jimmothypoints. (keep in mind it has to outweigh the downside of looking like a ponzi)

Cold wallet / hot wallet perhaps? For example new customer payments (mostly small amounts probably) may be coming into their hot wallet and mining revenue might be going into their cold wallet, especially if they are solo mining and don't want those 25 BTC amounts be exposed to any risk. So they pay the withdrawals directly from the hot wallet as long as there is enough funds in it, but it doesn't mean they can't have a cold wallet full of mining revenue. Keep in mind that they also sell stuff for USD on their website and don't need to convert BTC to fiat as long as the USD income can cover their electric bills and payroll and such.

I don't know if that outweighs the downside. I'd say they probably don't care about looking legit from that perspective and that has been their stance since day one. If you don't trust us that's your problem.

That's just a theory of course. The problem with it is that with the current BTC mining profitability they would have to have 20-30 PH/s SHA256 to sustain the payouts if the estimates of 500-1000 GH/s Scrypt-equivalent hashrate are correct. And that would be visible on Bitcoin network and for some reason it isn't.

Can I get 1 jimmothycoin instead?

[suchmoon]

• Is there any proof that actual mining is taking place at a 1:1 ratio of hash power sold? - No, there is no proof of a non-fractional reserve of hashing going on. Do you have proof there is? What I do know is my payouts are correct for the hashrates I maintain there. Not sure ANY cloud-mining outfit (LTCGear, Genesis-mining or any other) has been transparent about that.

There are ways to do it much better, check out AMHASH for example. That should be the minimum standard of cloud mining transparency. I'm not making any claims about their profitability or anything, just how they prove that they are mining at the hashrate they claim they have sold. That's still not 100% proof since some creative accounting might be taking place in reporting their sales etc - although that can be verified through third parties such as Havelock and Hashie, so there would have to be some serious collusion to fake it.

The point is that there is no reason for other cloud mining businesses, including GAW to not provide their mining addresses to the public. Especially if what you're saying about their mining being mostly BTC is true.

[NeonTranceBadger]

• Is there any proof that actual mining is taking place at a 1:1 ratio of hash power sold? - No, there is no proof of a non-fractional reserve of hashing going on. Do you have proof there is? What I do know is my payouts are correct for the hashrates I maintain there. Not sure ANY cloud-mining outfit (LTCGear, Genesis-mining or any other) has been transparent about that.

There are ways to do it much better, check out AMHASH for example. That should be the minimum standard of cloud mining transparency. I'm not making any claims about their profitability or anything, just how they prove that they are mining at the hashrate they claim they have sold. That's still not 100% proof since some creative accounting might be taking place in reporting their sales etc - although that can be verified through third parties such as Havelock and Hashie, so there would have to be some serious collusion to fake it.

The point is that there is no reason for other cloud mining businesses, including GAW to not provide their mining addresses to the public. Especially if what you're saying about their mining being mostly BTC is true.

Haven't they also released their wallets addresses?  I remembering seeing one of their posts with those addresses in it.

[clanbake]

After a bit of math, at absolute minimum 971GH*485 (my own TH of sha256 times my champion rank of 485) about 400TH has to exist in Genesis alone, but likely must be over 3PH including all users and the fact everyone ranked above me must be over 971GH (as high as 25TH to 80TH at the top ten).

I couldn't give a ranking on the scrypt hashlets, as I only own 15MH, because they lost their profitability.  But in Primes there is 50GH in the top ten, and Solos there is 90GH in the top ten (poor souls), so figuring the top ten is maybe 10% they must have at least 1,400TH in power.  That happens to be more than the current hashrate of the litecoin network (1,356).  I wonder, are they even mining litecoin?

But even with their SHA256 hashpower, has anyone made any attempt to track the origins of the bitcoins paid out, and where the block was generated and relayed?

I have been asking about proof of blocks from the first day I invested in GAW (the same day I got banned for simply asking about it). Investing in a company like this and not knowing where the money comes from is, well, not smart. If they provided proof of blocks mined either directly or indirectly meaning contracts, I think I would have no option but to trust that its (to a point) a legit business. The fact that they cant or wont do that is just stupid. Why would any company not want more business/money, isn't that the whole point? At this point if they do start providing proof of blocks mined, I would like to see proof of blocks mined a month ago or two months ago, not just starting today.

[the_game1224]

• I never heard of a company that needs to silence their customers, there must be something seriously wrong with the company to have to do that. - There is plenty of criticism levelled at Josh and how he runs the business at hashtalk, however, the people that are disrespectful and resort to using terms that are accusatory of crimes aren't allowed (it's posted in the rules of the forum). If you do that, you're banned, generally. The hashtalk forums are owned by GAW, so you play by the rules they state when you are there. I don't see a problem with that. If you want to post accusatory stuff you have these forums to do so without being banned.

Man..I was shadow banned by Josh for asking if it was CNN or CCN or both since he made a typo. I've been a member of this community for a few months and always helped people out there, reported bugs instead of abusing it, made translations of his announcement for the people who don't speak english..and now i get slapped in the face.. Not fair if you ask me.

That's bad and the hashtalk strict censoring is perhaps one of the biggest red flags IMO. 
As of late anyone who provides any constructive criticism, asks a legitimate question (such as yourself) or lets just call it what it is, isnt a GAW cheerleader is banned/shadow banned or has their comments deleted.

Listen even though we all have our suspicions nobody truly knows if this whole "Paycoin" campaign is legit or not.
-It could be the next big thing.
-It could be a great idea but ruined by incompetence/arrogance (most likely in my opinion)
-It could be a huge scam.

But when you censor anyone who provides any sort of doubt or raises legit questions it screams stay away or get the hell out while you can.
 

[cryptofunk]

... BIG SNIP ...

• I never heard of a company that needs to silence their customers, there must be something seriously wrong with the company to have to do that. - There is plenty of criticism levelled at Josh and how he runs the business at hashtalk, however, the people that are disrespectful and resort to using terms that are accusatory of crimes aren't allowed (it's posted in the rules of the forum). If you do that, you're banned, generally. The hashtalk forums are owned by GAW, so you play by the rules they state when you are there. I don't see a problem with that. If you want to post accusatory stuff you have these forums to do so without being banned.

I strongly disagree with you, my first account with hundreds of posts was shadow banned for an unknown reason but my history lives to show that I've never attacked anyone or said anything disrespectful.  I then had to create another account to ask a question in the beginner question, following that I posted only once after Josh implied that an hour of his online store down could be a bigger loss than an hour of Apples Internet sales.  See the following link and by all means tell me how I was disrespectful.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9557085#msg9557085

You're talking with 0 experience on the matter.. because of your "social standing" on HT you are immune to Josh shadow ban button, you can be as critical as you want as long as you're not going ballistic..  if he was going to shadow ban any of the top users (you, daffy, pcfan, etc) a riot would ensue... but shadow banning anybody else who is critical (while being constructive) about the company is fair game because it's a private company?  

If you go back another couple of page you'll notice someone getting shadow banned for asking Josh if he meant "CNN" when typing "CCN" in a post, this was enough to get him shadow banned.

There is nothing accusatory, disrespectful, defamatory or outside of the forum rules in all the examples I've just provided you.. moderation to the extent that it currently is does nothing other than hurt GAWs reputation and make people think there is something to hide.  Shadow banning someone is making a very aggressive statement, it's a slap in the face to that individual with 0 chance for appeal... you have no idea what you have said, Josh obviously won't reply to you and you just lost months of reputation.[/list]

[bitcoinnoisseur]

So, I'm eight pages into this thread and I'd like to TL;DR for everyone who is going to waste their day reading typical BCT trollishness and baiting:

Naysayers
Unsupported Speculation
Internet Lawyers
Personal Attacks
Zero Technical Discussion (no specifics)
Concern Trolls

People who really can't grasp a business model or figure out the technology behind it... interspersed with a few reasonable comments that are actually quite neutral and balanced. Well, it's a typical day in BCT land... I've had my laugh and drama for the day, thanks guys.

Outties!

It's one of the official Mt. GAW shills!

Sure - I'm here for the moment... I needed my Friday entertainment.

Let's start a topic called "Ask the Shill"...

Go ahead, ask away. Clearly, from reading all this stuff around here, you guys have no idea what's going on, and your speculations that I know the answers to are wrong, so I'll be happy to answer what I can.

The rules are, the first time someone posts something personally demeaning to me (disrespectful - like calling me a shill (I'll give you a pass on that)) - the session is over. Let's see how long it takes before this degrades into name calling and personal attacks. If I don't know an answer, I'll say so.

Ready? Let's go...

First off you need to slow down with demanding rules which we must follow on how we can engage you or anyone on this forum. This is not HT and that is one of the main reasons we deplore HT. If you really can't take being called a shill then you might not be very confident. And your exact words were: "Let's start a topic called "Ask the Shill"..." There's a simple phrase you might like to follow: If it doesn't apply, let it fly. Granted you don't want to be attacked here but have some backbone and don't let what a few miscreants here might say as the general consensus. With that said I have a few questions:

1 - It strikes me rather odd that you would have any information whatsoever that anyone and everyone else invested in GAW wouldn't have. You did say you have a lot of skin in the game. Does that mean you are privy to things that those with far less skin in the game are not?

2 – You said this referring to proof of any actual mining: “What I do know is my payouts are correct for the hashrates I maintain there.” What pools are you mining and how much have you been mining them since the announcement of Hashpool? If you are still mining other pools, by what factor has your overall payouts dropped?

3 – I found this that you stated, referring to the Zenpool negotiations, to be rather disturbing: “The negotiations were said to be completed, and it's my opinion that Josh is waiting for a strategic time to restore the payouts for the ZenPool closer to the ICO.” Why, in the world, would he not restore payouts immediately? Do you mean to tell me that negotiations were made and that Josh is mining Zenpool and profiting more while paying out less until he decides to restore payouts?

[suchmoon]

3 – I found this that you stated, referring to the Zenpool negotiations, to be rather disturbing: “The negotiations were said to be completed, and it's my opinion that Josh is waiting for a strategic time to restore the payouts for the ZenPool closer to the ICO.” Why, in the world, would he not restore payouts immediately? Do you mean to tell me that negotiations were made and that Josh is mining Zenpool and profiting more while paying out less until he decides to restore payouts?

I'm hoping that's just poor wording on rootdude's part, because taken at face value it sounds truly messed up, especially the fact that it hasn't been explained that way on HT despite multiple pleas for any updates on this subject. Maybe there are some real constraints preventing them from restoring the payouts and not just the CEO's personal discretion. Yes, I'm grasping at straws here.