▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

[Puppet]

What that mean? Because they put there some settings this mean that they will go bankrupt?

They wont, their customers will.
A ponzi only works as long as more money flows in than flows out. Now think what those "some settings" happen to achieve and why they were activated...

*tick* *tock* *tick* *tock*

[1714134963]

1714134963

[Zeta0S]

Hello guys  

I just got 2 terrahash sinds two weeks whit pbmining, is it any good?
How do i get a payout request there?

I am new in the mining bizzz

[syncsam]

Hello guys  

I just got 2 terrahash sinds two weeks whit pbmining, is it any good?
How do i get a payout request there?

I am new in the mining bizzz

I can't tell if you are being serious or not

If you are being serious check out this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887871.0

or the last 20 pages of this one
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418183.0

Or page 1 of this thread or search pbmining on BCT and look at the numerous thread stating pbmining is a scam

but I'm assuming you not being serious

[Zeta0S]

Hello guys  

I just got 2 terrahash sinds two weeks whit pbmining, is it any good?
How do i get a payout request there?

I am new in the mining bizzz

I can't tell if you are being serious or not

If you are being serious check out this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887871.0

or the last 20 pages of this one
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418183.0

Or page 1 of this thread or search pbmining on BCT and look at the numerous thread stating pbmining is a scam

but I'm assuming you not being serious

No i am not.
Telling people from the last two and halve months PBMining ain`t good, its even on my cloudmining page.
Got the 101 warning on there to. There is no cloudminer out there making huge roi`s.

Only the Referral guys making real money  

[syncsam]

 

[avw1982]

Finally got some real pictures of HashProfit: https://forum.btcsec.com/index.php?/topic/8524-hashprofit-maining-dlia-vsekh-200-khs-na-7-dnei-besplatno/?p=179951

Are pictures from there start, so back then it wasn't that big.

Lets find out where they're mining.

[Puppet]

Finally got some real pictures of HashProfit: https://forum.btcsec.com/index.php?/topic/8524-hashprofit-maining-dlia-vsekh-200-khs-na-7-dnei-besplatno/?p=179951

Are pictures from there start, so back then it wasn't that big.

Lets find out where they're mining.

Good find. But I count 100 GPU's there. Am I right saying thats typically good for ~100MH ? Thing is, closest cached version of the website I can find is from september, 2 months later, and there they claim to own ~1400 MH:
http://web.archive.org/web/20140912014413/https://hashprofit.com/

Today its 5300 MH.

Id really need to see something more substantial tthan 100 GPU to grant them a point for this.

[julian071]

ltcgear and bit-x are both listed. Common guys, the list is getting long, but not so long you cant find those.

In other news, looks like cloudmining.website is running on its last legs. It stopped automatic payments and enabled 100% reinvestment for everyone without even asking:

We have launched the settings page. Now you can hold your payment and re-invest automatically. Both these features have been turned on for all existing customers as well as new customers. If you want to turn them off, you can do that immediately from the settings page. Re-investment will take place everyday starting from coming Monday.

Thats pretty desperate.

Ah man, the poor people who invested there.... The cynical ones among you will say everyone who invested there is just gullible and greedy and they got what they deserved, but I disagree. People are just trying to make a buck, which is not at all implausible in the Wild West that crypto-land is. But I do hope that people lean something.

[Puppet]

Ah man, the poor people who invested there.... The cynical ones among you will say everyone who invested there is just gullible and greedy and they got what they deserved, but I disagree. People are just trying to make a buck, which is not at all implausible in the Wild West that crypto-land is.

Its implausible to me, that someone would be investing on a site that provides absolutely zero evidence of anything, not even competence,  and actually believe its anything other than a ponzi scam. And if the money was sent based on the assumption it was a ponzi, as I assume most investors did, then you're right that I have zero sympathy for them. In fact I consider them complicit for trying to steal bitcoins from later investors.

[eneloop]

I would say, that there are enough idiots standing up every morning to drive a successful ponzi scam.

[xhomerx10]

I would say, that there are enough idiots standing up every morning to drive a successful ponzi scam.

 These so-called Ponzis really weren't Ponzis until difficulty stagnated.  When difficulty was increasing exponentially, they could easily have paid out even without the benefit of new money - think about it; they have next to zero expenses and their payout is dependent only on difficulty and hashrate.  They could easily undercut real mining companies. The fly in the ointment is the stagnation of difficulty otherwise they would be thriving.  (Barring the exposure by Puppet of course)

[yvv]

Finally got some real pictures of HashProfit: https://forum.btcsec.com/index.php?/topic/8524-hashprofit-maining-dlia-vsekh-200-khs-na-7-dnei-besplatno/?p=179951

Are pictures from there start, so back then it wasn't that big.

Lets find out where they're mining.

I don't think that they are mining. I think they launder money from different busyness through cloud mining. Scrypt mining is not profitable today, but they are giving away A LOT of btc. It is definitely not a ponzi, guy just need to make their income clean.

[Puppet]

they could easily have paid out even without the benefit of new money - think about it; they have next to zero expenses and their payout is dependent only on difficulty and hashrate.

They could, but why on earth would they, given that most of them are anonymous ? You're assuming a "benevolent scammer" who will keep paying out according to the contract even though he is well past his peak profitability.  I think thats a rare breed.

[sickfancy]

"ltcgear               1+3+4+5+6          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (info welcome) "

Who's the asic vendor that endorsed ltcgear?

I assume they endorse themselves, since they sell hardware too.

Thank you.  That doesn't instill confidence.  Wtf did I get myself into!

[jaybow]

Howdy,

Found another one - btcslice

Lifetime hash contracts, and no maintenance! Guess that's a 1+2+3+4+5+6+7

[xhomerx10]

they could easily have paid out even without the benefit of new money - think about it; they have next to zero expenses and their payout is dependent only on difficulty and hashrate.

They could, but why on earth would they, given that most of them are anonymous ? You're assuming a "benevolent scammer" who will keep paying out according to the contract even though he is well past his peak profitability.  I think thats a rare breed.

 No I'm not really even saying scammer let alone benevolent!  What I'm saying is they were operating using a business model that would have paid out but nobody was ever going to ROI when diff was screaming up.  Nobody!  In much the same way as people never expected house prices to decline which cause the huge problem in the US when people couldn't pay their inflated mortgages.  They also had the major flaw of extremely long term contracts with no maintenance fees...

[marcotheminer]

Why do they have the number 4 alongside their name? They state that have a maximum of 1PH at the moment no?

Yes, but at this time, I cant see or verify how much of those 1PH they sold, so they could be doing fractional reserve mining without anyone noticing.

Curious as to why it would mean anything to cex.io?

cex.io used to be where bitfury sold their hashrate, or so I thought.

Alright, thanks for the reply.

[Puppet]

Howdy,

Found another one - btcslice

Lifetime hash contracts, and no maintenance! Guess that's a 1+2+3+4+5+6+7

That one might warrant an "8" as well; it seems they dont even pay out in bitcoin, but in $  

http://www.btcslice.com/forum.php?topic=19

I assume via paypal?

[Digiconomist]

One thing I missed in criteria in the OP (it might have been said already, didn't have the time yet to read the rest) is plausiblity check on the promised (and delivered) returns. I've done some cloudmining (product) reviews in which I mainly focus on the returns, and based on that I dare to draw even stronger conclusions than the OP did (for two companies).

CoIntellect and ltcgear are both listed as "(very) suspicious". For these two, their product offers are truly absurd.

For LTCGear (full review) I determined that they offer the equivalent of at least 30% ROI per month (take a moment to consider how fast you'll be a millionaire if that holds), and for Cointellect (full review) I even found that they promise (and deliver) more mining income than mathematically possible.

And of course this makes sense for a Ponzi scheme. After all, it is required to attract not only new users, but also keep drop-off rates low and reinvestment rates high. In order to achieve that, the outlook needs to be better than anything else. Hence excessive returns should be one of the criteria. Certainly not the only one by the way, I limit myself to this because I'm reviewing products - not exposing scams (well I end up doing that for some, but that's not the goal).

[ChrisCh]

for cointellect i believe they are using the hash power for something else, it can explain profitability. their payback is indeed very good to be true, however they are paying for the last 3 months.