[ANN][VTR] vTorrent - Share with freedom | 2FA | HD | @Bittrex

[dickwhite]

Can someone link me to how the economics are planned to work (as far as the incentives to reward uploaders and seeders)?

I am worried that it may be similar to STEEM's economic model, which is proving to be unsustainable.

Also, the 5% PoS inflation must be considered by those that are invested in too many coins and do not want to go through the trouble of staking (read: me).

If there is anyway to make this economic model deflationary, then I highly suggest it. It is a no-brainer to invest in a deflationary cryptocurrency that has utility.

vTorrent is an interesting/exciting concept nonetheless.

I'm going to guess that a small percentage (1-3%) will be lost to transaction errors and abandon wallets leading to an actual lower inflation rate. I feel the maximum total supply of 20MM coins has a greater bearing on the price than does annual inflation rate. Also, if this project actually works, there is already an established network of users who would benefit greatly from the unique features offered by vtorrent. This should create utility and massive demand for VTR. I would expect participation rate to grow much higher than 5%/year. As a final note, making it a deflationary token might stifle its usage, as it is meant to incentivize sharing within the network rather than be a store of value like bitcoin.

Yes, coins like Steem are vulnerable to hyperinflation (+100%) without massive uptake. I'm not convinced it wasn't a scam right from the beginning.

[coins101]

...

..
Regards,

vTorrent

@Dev

I just noticed that your post from a while back, Bittorrent is shown working in your screengrab in the background:



Why not just show the rest or a video?

And

That bittorrent-delegate.cpp  is a qt to crypto qt rename

[e1ghtSpace]

http://vtorrent.info/

...guess what I found?  



There is more down the page.

[CoinHoarder]

Can someone link me to how the economics are planned to work (as far as the incentives to reward uploaders and seeders)?

I am worried that it may be similar to STEEM's economic model, which is proving to be unsustainable.

Also, the 5% PoS inflation must be considered by those that are invested in too many coins and do not want to go through the trouble of staking (read: me).

If there is anyway to make this economic model deflationary, then I highly suggest it. It is a no-brainer to invest in a deflationary cryptocurrency that has utility.

vTorrent is an interesting/exciting concept nonetheless.

I'm going to guess that a small percentage (1-3%) will be lost to transaction errors and abandon wallets leading to an actual lower inflation rate. I feel the maximum total supply of 20MM coins has a greater bearing on the price than does annual inflation rate. Also, if this project actually works, there is already an established network of users who would benefit greatly from the unique features offered by vtorrent. This should create utility and massive demand for VTR. I would expect participation rate to grow much higher than 5%/year. As a final note, making it a deflationary token might stifle its usage, as it is meant to incentivize sharing within the network rather than be a store of value like bitcoin.

Yes, coins like Steem are vulnerable to hyperinflation (+100%) without massive uptake. I'm not convinced it wasn't a scam right from the beginning.

Steem has only ~10% annual inflation (from memory) if your STEEM are powered up, which most are powered up.

3% PoS inflation combined with 1% to 3% uploader/seeder inflation incentive may be too much. It seems I will have to stake this coin if I get involved to lower that to 1% to 3%.

But, your answer is just a guess... it is really weird to me that no one seems to know how the uploader/seeder incentives will work. To be honest, it is  quite worrisome to me as a potential investor.

[coins101]

Can someone link me to how the economics are planned to work (as far as the incentives to reward uploaders and seeders)?

I am worried that it may be similar to STEEM's economic model, which is proving to be unsustainable.

Also, the 5% PoS inflation must be considered by those that are invested in too many coins and do not want to go through the trouble of staking (read: me).

If there is anyway to make this economic model deflationary, then I highly suggest it. It is a no-brainer to invest in a deflationary cryptocurrency that has utility.

vTorrent is an interesting/exciting concept nonetheless.

I'm going to guess that a small percentage (1-3%) will be lost to transaction errors and abandon wallets leading to an actual lower inflation rate. I feel the maximum total supply of 20MM coins has a greater bearing on the price than does annual inflation rate. Also, if this project actually works, there is already an established network of users who would benefit greatly from the unique features offered by vtorrent. This should create utility and massive demand for VTR. I would expect participation rate to grow much higher than 5%/year. As a final note, making it a deflationary token might stifle its usage, as it is meant to incentivize sharing within the network rather than be a store of value like bitcoin.

Yes, coins like Steem are vulnerable to hyperinflation (+100%) without massive uptake. I'm not convinced it wasn't a scam right from the beginning.

Steem has only ~10% annual inflation (from memory) if your STEEM are powered up, which most are powered up.

3% PoS inflation combined with 1% to 3% uploader/seeder inflation incentive may be too much. It seems I will have to stake this coin if I get involved to lower that to 1% to 3%.

But, your answer is just a guess... it is really weird to me that no one seems to know how the uploader/seeder incentives will work. To be honest, it is  quite worrisome to me as a potential investor.

I explained how I think it will work several pages back.

You set your own price for bandwidth.

$Zero to $1m



There was a discussion about it at the end of last year when the devs gave everyone an opportunity to have their say.

My main request was to trickle back payments to the original seeder to avoid a race to zero situation.

You also get the benefit of royalty payments going back to content creators, which encourages them to create more.

You see this on eBay where people find open source software, spend time marketing it and pretty quickly they end up selling stuff to other sellers and then everyone competes with each other on price. The originator of the whole thing gets priced out and they hardly ever recover their sweat capital.

So trickle down payments - The seeder of a file does it once and then as others help with seeding a swarm and they get a cut; but the originator is basically getting a cut from everyone, even a diminishing rate when multiplied up becomes a lot.

[CoinHoarder]

I explained how I think it will work several pages back.

You set your own price for bandwidth.

$Zero to $1m



There was a discussion about it at the end of last year when the devs gave everyone an opportunity to have their say.

My main request was to trickle back payments to the original seeder to avoid a race to zero situation.

You also get the benefit of royalty payments going back to content creators, which encourages them to create more.

You see this on eBay where people find open source software, spend time marketing it and pretty quickly they end up selling stuff to other sellers and then everyone competes with each other on price. The originator of the whole thing gets priced out and they hardly ever recover their sweat capital.

So trickle down payments - The seeder of a file does it once and then as others help with seeding a swarm and they get a cut; but the originator is basically getting a cut from everyone, even a diminishing rate when multiplied up becomes a lot.

That all makes sense to me. That is similar to how curator payments work in Steem. The first person to upvote something gets the lionshare of the curator payment for any certain post. This provides incentive for people to spend time curating, and being the first to upvote valuable content. I guess in vTorrent it would provide incentive for people to seed a torrent that might have otherwise eventually gone unseeded.

I like your idea of making sure content creators get a cut too. In the legacy BitTorrent ecosystem, they do a lot of work for little to no pay, so it would be good to reward them.

[ik_do]

yo dev,
looks like things are slowly coming together. thanks for all your hard work on the project.

if you need any help with resources/support/documentation or anything at all please feel free to make a post

[Cryptoadvice_82]

We have an website now!!

http://vtorrent.info

[coins101]

I explained how I think it will work several pages back.

You set your own price for bandwidth.

$Zero to $1m

...

There was a discussion about it at the end of last year when the devs gave everyone an opportunity to have their say.

My main request was to trickle back payments to the original seeder to avoid a race to zero situation.

You also get the benefit of royalty payments going back to content creators, which encourages them to create more.

You see this on eBay where people find open source software, spend time marketing it and pretty quickly they end up selling stuff to other sellers and then everyone competes with each other on price. The originator of the whole thing gets priced out and they hardly ever recover their sweat capital.

So trickle down payments - The seeder of a file does it once and then as others help with seeding a swarm and they get a cut; but the originator is basically getting a cut from everyone, even a diminishing rate when multiplied up becomes a lot.

That all makes sense to me. That is similar to how curator payments work in Steem. The first person to upvote something gets the lionshare of the curator payment for any certain post. This provides incentive for people to spend time curating, and being the first to upvote valuable content. I guess in vTorrent it would provide incentive for people to seed a torrent that might have otherwise eventually gone unseeded.

I like your idea of making sure content creators get a cut too. In the legacy BitTorrent ecosystem, they do a lot of work for little to no pay, so it would be good to reward them.

Trust ratings should play a big part in this. It's a feature I'd like to see added to weed out crap. If people are paying for stuff, it's got to be from trusted sources.

I like the whole user rating model, if there are enough users doing the self policing.

Should be some financial incentives from becoming an established trusted rater.  Price should reflect how many trusted ratings you've made and the overall quality of all ratings.

[CoinHoarder]

Definitely, a way of rating content creators and each individual torrent needs to be implemented.

I think it is very important to reduce or negate inflation needed for the incentives too.

Transaction fees should be earmarked for these incentives.

A demurrage fee should also be considered. At the very least, a demurrage fee on dormant accounts should be imposed and earmarked for incentives.

Any other ideas for additional funding?

[dickwhite]

3% PoS inflation combined with 1% to 3% uploader/seeder inflation incentive may be too much. It seems I will have to stake this coin if I get involved to lower that to 1% to 3%.

But, your answer is just a guess... it is really weird to me that no one seems to know how the uploader/seeder incentives will work. To be honest, it is  quite worrisome to me as a potential investor.

It is my understanding that uploader/seeder incentive is provided by leechers. Could be wrong though.

[CoinHoarder]

3% PoS inflation combined with 1% to 3% uploader/seeder inflation incentive may be too much. It seems I will have to stake this coin if I get involved to lower that to 1% to 3%.

But, your answer is just a guess... it is really weird to me that no one seems to know how the uploader/seeder incentives will work. To be honest, it is  quite worrisome to me as a potential investor.

It is my understanding that uploader/seeder incentive is provided by leechers. Could be wrong though.

Hmmm. I did not realize leeches would need to pay. Why would they use torrent when they could use piratebay etc for free?

[ik_do]

3% PoS inflation combined with 1% to 3% uploader/seeder inflation incentive may be too much. It seems I will have to stake this coin if I get involved to lower that to 1% to 3%.

But, your answer is just a guess... it is really weird to me that no one seems to know how the uploader/seeder incentives will work. To be honest, it is  quite worrisome to me as a potential investor.

It is my understanding that uploader/seeder incentive is provided by leechers. Could be wrong though.

Hmmm. I did not realize leeches would need to pay. Why would they use torrent when they could use piratebay etc for free?

Go back and read the entire thread.

[CoinHoarder]

Lol, no thank you. It is 213 pages... I would rather pass up this project than do that.

This information should be in the OP or on a website in a FAQ. I don't even see a whitelaper, otherwise I would read that. No one seems to know this information. The two people that said anything are just giving their opinion on how it should work and/or don't seem too sure of themselves as to how it will work.

No wonder interest, volume, and market cap for this project is so miniscule. How do you expect people to take it seriously without a whitepaper, website,  or FAQ explaining how things will work? You expect everyone to read through 213 forum pages? Lol...

[ik_do]

Lol, no thank you. It is 213 pages... I would rather pass up this project than do that.

This information should be in the OP or on a website in a FAQ. I don't even see a whitelaper, otherwise I would read that. No one seems to know this information. The two people that said anything are just giving their opinion on how it should work and/or don't seem too sure of themselves as to how it will work.

No wonder interest, volume, and market cap for this project is so miniscule. How do you expect people to take it seriously without a whitepaper, website,  or FAQ explaining how things will work? You expect everyone to read through 213 forum pages? Lol...

Ok you win just click this image and you'll get a bag of money without having to do any work or research yourself:



Glad I was able to save you some valuable time of actually reading about projects you're considering investing in and at the same time provided you with a life-time of riches which you achieved by sitting in your chair and doing fuck all!

[CoinHoarder]

I do plenty of research to find valuable undervalued projects, but the way you guys are describing the incentive system, it is not worth my time to do the research on this one. It will never catch on or become popular if leeches have to pay, or if too much inflation is used to reward uploaders/seeders. Either way, this project is doomed. Maybe that's another reason for the low interest and market cap...

[Cryptoadvice_82]

I do plenty of research to find valuable undervalued projects, but the way you guys are describing the incentive system, it is not worth my time to do the research on this one. It will never catch on or become popular if leeches have to pay, or if too much inflation is used to reward uploaders/seeders. Either way, this project is doomed. Maybe that's another reason for the low interest and market cap...

Dev says several time than now the focus is on developing technology and not on how to sell it.

Now no one knows for sure how reward will works simply because of it haven't been decided, but an inflation rate of 5% don't seems to be too high

Why should use vTorrent instead of others free services?
Because of it's decentralised (can't be shut down), it's anonymous and uploaders will be rewarded

RIOT, a native mobile wallet and 2FA adds a lot of value itself.

And seems than vTorrent can be released before MU2...

[coins101]

.. Either way, this project is doomed.

This is why you are right:

The internet is free and it is used by 5bn people.

This is why you are wrong:

> People pay to use the internet through broadband charges and mobile data plans.

> Why would anyone need Bitcoin which charges fees (you typically need to allow 10%-15% by the time you've gone through the various exchange processes) when you can use a bank account for free?

> Why does Netflix exist and as a single company is worth 3 x the total value of Bitcoin? On paper, Netflix should not be able to compete or even exist because of Kodi which you can download for free and get more content.

Somewhere between zero cost and high cost, there are 5 billion internet users who give value to different business models.

If you were 100% right in your conclusion, Bitttorrent would not have 150m to 250m users. It would have 5bn users; and Netflix would not exist.

This has never been done before. Even if it were not 100% on target on its mission, it can be tweaked to gain a substantial users base - a user base that could be bigger than Bitcoin's user base.

Doomed?

I've been around long enough to know people with 10,000BTC just say it's worth a punt and throw 100BTC at a project after just 5 minutes of thinking about whether it could have merit.

And I've also seen people who spend weeks thinking about investing in a project, speaking to as many people as they can; only to say - yeah, I'll probably throw $100 at it.

VC's use a scatter gun approach for a reason. Despite their highly intelligent researchers, in the end, they have no idea if an idea will work or not.

If you're such an oracle, you should go work for a VC, you'll make millions. Then come back in 12 months and we'll compare notes on whose made the better investment.

[dickwhite]

I do plenty of research to find valuable undervalued projects, but the way you guys are describing the incentive system, it is not worth my time to do the research on this one. It will never catch on or become popular if leeches have to pay, or if too much inflation is used to reward uploaders/seeders. Either way, this project is doomed. Maybe that's another reason for the low interest and market cap...

You haven't done enough research.

Yes, people can still use the pirate bay, a cat and mouse game increasingly in favour of the cat. That's not who we're after here. I know plenty of people who pay real money for access to private torrent trackers because that's usually where the good and rare content is. And I know far more people who purchase digital music, movies and books. Vtorrent aims to provide an integrated platform for content creators and consumers that's easy to use, private and secure, where people can buy, sell and share content free of censorship, regional blocking, and industry harassment. And this market is huge. 5% inflation is nothing next to the potential growth of users.

The current low market cap is probably because there's been zero marketing. It's difficult for a small project to stand out in an ocean of alt coins. Also, development has dragged on for 2 years. I'm not saying that disparagingly. Torrent on blockchain has never been done before, and such innovation takes time. I actually like that the dev team has been methodical and low key with releases and info. It's not healthy to hype a product that doesn't exist or function correctly. When we have a working beta, that will be the time to crow. And I believe it's soon. 

[CoinHoarder]

Meh, I was just trying to understand how the incentives work and how much inflation there will be. No need to get defensive or combative. I am entitled to my opinion. Create a moderated thread if you want an echo chamber.

But to be honest, no one seems to really know how the incentives and inflation will work exactly, so I will wait to pass final judgement on it once those details are fully disclosed. I still think that if it works how some of you think it will, then it is unlikely to be as widely adopted as you guys seem to believe.

Nonetheless, I have thrown some change at a few VTR tokens anyways. Good luck to us!