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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3896948 times)
Mabsark
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December 15, 2014, 12:43:16 PM
 #24781

that is assuming difficulty will be ever increasing, I know i'm being a tad anal here but why don't AM offer the option that clients can fund their account to keep mining... even if one day the contract is mining zero, who's to say the next day, BTC price  doesn't go to $1m per.

it's quite a crafty disclaimer if you ask me.

The contract has to be unprofitable for 10 days before the contract ends.

i reiterate price of BTC very rarely remains at a constant. Mining = prospecting.

Most people simply wont mine at a loss in the hopes of BTC price increasing.
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raskul
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December 15, 2014, 12:45:45 PM
 #24782

that is assuming difficulty will be ever increasing, I know i'm being a tad anal here but why don't AM offer the option that clients can fund their account to keep mining... even if one day the contract is mining zero, who's to say the next day, BTC price  doesn't go to $1m per.

it's quite a crafty disclaimer if you ask me.

The contract has to be unprofitable for 10 days before the contract ends.

i reiterate price of BTC very rarely remains at a constant. Mining = prospecting.

Most people simply wont mine at a loss in the hopes of BTC price increasing.

most people are entitled to decide that for themselves.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
Mabsark
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December 15, 2014, 12:53:16 PM
 #24783

most people are entitled to decide that for themselves.

And they can do. AM does not force people to purchase contracts from them and the conditions are quite clearly stated, in plain view and in normal sized print. AMHash customers have already decided they're OK with that.

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December 15, 2014, 12:59:09 PM
 #24784

most people are entitled to decide that for themselves.

And they can do. AM does not force people to purchase contracts from them and the conditions are quite clearly stated, in plain view and in normal sized print. AMHash customers have already decided they're OK with that.



granted, and the one thing that I would say in favour of AM.. i can only presume that the hashes are already submitting, so when you buy your 20TH/s contract, it's not adding anything to the network.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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December 15, 2014, 01:02:28 PM
 #24785

most people are entitled to decide that for themselves.

And they can do. AM does not force people to purchase contracts from them and the conditions are quite clearly stated, in plain view and in normal sized print. AMHash customers have already decided they're OK with that.



granted, and the one thing that I would say in favour of AM.. i can only presume that the hashes are already submitting, so when you buy your 20TH/s contract, it's not adding anything to the network.

i'd like to take this opportunity to ask for AM's financials.
Their mining ops has been quite blurry because of all those cloudmining sales so i'm hoping to gain clarity on how much they earned in-house at this point.
AcoinL.L.C
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December 15, 2014, 04:57:52 PM
 #24786

Sell wall on havelock. As others have mentioned AM doesn't have the financial strength to compete in the future. They need to secure more funding, and dividends aren't realistically on the timeline for a while.. They should be conserving excess capital for dry streaks, not sending it out to shareholders.
dmcdad
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December 15, 2014, 05:03:01 PM
 #24787

I've done some analysis of the havelock order book, and that sell wall is the same bot that bounces a couple of hundred shares back and forth between bid and ask.
Mabsark
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December 15, 2014, 05:11:16 PM
 #24788

Sell wall on havelock. As others have mentioned AM doesn't have the financial strength to compete in the future. They need to secure more funding, and dividends aren't realistically on the timeline for a while.. They should be conserving excess capital for dry streaks, not sending it out to shareholders.

At this moment in time, all we know regarding AM's financial position is the following:

a) financials statements are currently in preparation and start getting processed next week. Dependent on how long the accountant needs, the financial statements should be accessible shortly after
...
e) AM has enough funding to stay in business independent of BTC valuation for a considerable amount of time.
benm
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December 15, 2014, 09:49:04 PM
 #24789

I've done some analysis of the havelock order book, and that sell wall is the same bot that bounces a couple of hundred shares back and forth between bid and ask.

Anyone planning on buying/selling on Havelock should also know you can manipulate that bot pretty easily and close the spread down to 3-5% since it will over/under bid you so it can be the market maker. Buy side seems to update its order every minute, ask side reacts to changes in the order book pretty quickly.

For example, the current bid is 0.12, but you could probably sell into the bot at around 0.125 -.128.
btcapparel
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December 15, 2014, 11:42:08 PM
 #24790

Hi guys

Can anyone help, I requested a transfer of my direct AM shares to havelock at the back end of October and still nothing in my Havelock account

Anyone else had the same problem and what can I do to resolve it Smiley

Many thanks

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explorer
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December 16, 2014, 12:30:51 AM
 #24791

Were your shares confirmed in the dividend recently?
havelock
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December 16, 2014, 02:35:16 PM
 #24792

Hi guys

Can anyone help, I requested a transfer of my direct AM shares to havelock at the back end of October and still nothing in my Havelock account

Anyone else had the same problem and what can I do to resolve it Smiley

Many thanks

Please submit again following the instructions @:

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

chriswilmer
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December 16, 2014, 05:28:54 PM
 #24793

Hi guys

Can anyone help, I requested a transfer of my direct AM shares to havelock at the back end of October and still nothing in my Havelock account

Anyone else had the same problem and what can I do to resolve it Smiley

Many thanks

Please submit again following the instructions @:

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

Can you notify us when a batch of share transfers go through? I initiated a transfer following those instructions about two weeks ago... I'm not sure if I should just be hitting refresh on Havelock to find out, or whether there will be an email notice or what.
stompysteve
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December 16, 2014, 06:07:28 PM
 #24794

Hi guys

Can anyone help, I requested a transfer of my direct AM shares to havelock at the back end of October and still nothing in my Havelock account

Anyone else had the same problem and what can I do to resolve it Smiley

Many thanks

Please submit again following the instructions @:

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

Can you notify us when a batch of share transfers go through? I initiated a transfer following those instructions about two weeks ago... I'm not sure if I should just be hitting refresh on Havelock to find out, or whether there will be an email notice or what.
they should make it more transparent for people like a que or something....so you know if your transfer is pending or when it supposed to go thru
trek27
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December 17, 2014, 11:40:46 AM
 #24795

I want to share some thoughts on funding and the danger represented by Bitfury.

First of all I see no reason to doubt in honesty of statements made by FC (or Jutarul). If he says AM is able to operate for some time regardless of Btc price (btw - touching 200$ is a realistic possibility) then most probably it is the case. This is very important because we could face low prices still for some time. A game changer in this topic could be approval of first bitcoin ETF but I have no idea when (if) SEC could do it.

Bitfury, bitfury ... They are very canny with tapping fresh VC funds and creating sense of confidence. But, please, don't confound VC money with so called 'smart' money. I assure you, there are a lot of 'not that smart' VC money. What's worth noting  is the inability of Bitfury to fund itself internally. If history repeats (rhymes  Wink) they could just burn those new 20mln - especially if Btc hovers around 200$ in 2015-2016. Does this mean Bitfury is not a real danger for AM?- 'au contraire'! With such funding they could be able to try to flood everybody with new cost effective equipment sometime in 2015. But remedy is simple: AM must

a) stay cost effective
b) be innovative (gen4 success seems to be 'a must')
c) never succumb into fallacy of 'le grandeur' which, for example, in current environment means no debt.

If AM works this way then I don't see how Bitfury's new chip could bankrupt AM. Of course, dividends will highly depend on competition performance. Seems, interesting period ahead of us. 
 

Blazed
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December 17, 2014, 01:00:54 PM
 #24796

I want to share some thoughts on funding and the danger represented by Bitfury.

First of all I see no reason to doubt in honesty of statements made by FC (or Jutarul). If he says AM is able to operate for some time regardless of Btc price (btw - touching 200$ is a realistic possibility) then most probably it is the case. This is very important because we could face low prices still for some time. A game changer in this topic could be approval of first bitcoin ETF but I have no idea when (if) SEC could do it.

Bitfury, bitfury ... They are very canny with tapping fresh VC funds and creating sense of confidence. But, please, don't confound VC money with so called 'smart' money. I assure you, there are a lot of 'not that smart' VC money. What's worth noting  is the inability of Bitfury to fund itself internally. If history repeats (rhymes  Wink) they could just burn those new 20mln - especially if Btc hovers around 200$ in 2015-2016. Does this mean Bitfury is not a real danger for AM?- 'au contraire'! With such funding they could be able to try to flood everybody with new cost effective equipment sometime in 2015. But remedy is simple: AM must

a) stay cost effective
b) be innovative (gen4 success seems to be 'a must')
c) never succumb into fallacy of 'le grandeur' which, for example, in current environment means no debt.

If AM works this way then I don't see how Bitfury's new chip could bankrupt AM. Of course, dividends will highly depend on competition performance. Seems, interesting period ahead of us. 
 



I do not think Bitfury has to be externally funded, but it is a smart move for sure (why risk your own capital?). I also do not think Bitfury will bankrupt AM either, but they will make it a lot less profitable. Moving forward I think AM will hang in there, but will they be highly profitable? (pretty unlikely in my opinion). I really doubt anyone investing will ever see great returns moving forward. The mining market is just not hugely profitable anymore for manufactures. The move to cloud mining was a good one for sure...seems they are finally selling a decent amount of AMHash these days. I think AM should stick to what they can handle -> Bulk chips and this could mining setup (avoid selling miners to end users completely).
trek27
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December 17, 2014, 01:50:46 PM
 #24797

I want to share some thoughts on funding and the danger represented by Bitfury.

...
I do not think Bitfury has to be externally funded, ...

Yes, this could be true.


I want to share some thoughts on funding and the danger represented by Bitfury.
...
...
Moving forward I think AM will hang in there, but will they be highly profitable? (pretty unlikely in my opinion)...

Agree, especially if by highly we understand profitability of early 2013. Currently, in general, expecting high returns on mining investments is a pure, difficult to justify, gamble.
AM's case when considered with respect to the share price is a bit 'special' because of failed gen2 and quasi failed gen3 - successful gen4, depending on timing and competition performance, could yield a nice return for those willing to risk their capital. I say risk capital because failed gen4 will be very harsh for todays buyers.
Dexter770221
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December 17, 2014, 02:01:52 PM
 #24798

Regarding Bitfury:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896350.0

bit-x.com Huh??

GH55 - old gen 55nm miners Huh

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
dogie
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December 17, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
 #24799

This company's rating has been updated in the Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

[This message won't be monitored, discuss any concerns in the thread.]

John (John K.)
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December 17, 2014, 04:08:36 PM
 #24800

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888260.msg9868520#msg9868520

The 6-chip board works.

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