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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3899679 times)
sngwinner
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October 22, 2014, 05:09:44 PM
 #23801

Are the small payments to that address from franchisees? They seem to be regular contributions and if those were franchisee revenues that would be disappointing to say the least.

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October 22, 2014, 05:21:15 PM
 #23802

If there is one thing i've learn regarding ASIC manufacturers.. Is that they never spot on their target.
There is always a difference between the announcement and actually delivering said specs, whether with spondo, bitmain, BF, and AM..

When taking (pre)orders, you can generally bet against vendor claims for rather obvious reasons. Bitfury however is one of the few exceptions so far, delivering their asics pretty much on target (what was it, one day late?) and on spec (also in a different league than the competition, outclassing 28nm competitors with a 55nm design).

More importantly, note that BF is not pre selling anything atm that Im aware off. They got their money from VCs and only released this information long after securing the funding. They have very little incentive to lie or even exaggerate.  If it where a bluff intended to scare competition, it would be too late to have a meaningful impact.

Puppet, would love to discuss further, your point of view around financial incentives has merit, but it's hard for me to take what you write seriously when it is mixed with emotions, anger or disrespect - it is simply distracting.

As for 51% of mining my point is that it cannot come from the BitFury DC, no one wants the bitcoin network to have a single point of failure, logical (pool) or physical (actual DC). Even if you do not believe in that argument, please assume for a second that it's true, then where would you think the rest of the mining power would come from?
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October 22, 2014, 06:20:18 PM
 #23803

Are the small payments to that address from franchisees? They seem to be regular contributions and if those were franchisee revenues that would be disappointing to say the least.

Well I guess they could, indeed, be payments from franchisees. But this doesn't mean jack at the moment. FC may just take that income and use it to order a ton of gen 4. Mining with gen 3 just doesn't do the trick anymore. With BTC prices at current levels, the best way most likely is deploying gen 4 as big and as fast as possible.

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October 22, 2014, 09:35:21 PM
 #23804

And the next Wednesday w/o a dividend has passed. Not to mention any info... :/
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October 22, 2014, 11:09:26 PM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 03:25:26 AM by jimmothy
 #23805

When taking (pre)orders, you can generally bet against vendor claims for rather obvious reasons. Bitfury however is one of the few exceptions so far, delivering their asics pretty much on target (what was it, one day late?) and on spec (also in a different league than the competition, outclassing 28nm competitors with a 55nm design).

Nope even Bitfury missed their estimated specs. Their first chip was supposed to reach 5 gh/s and couldn't even go past 3 gh/s. It's a great chip but I think AM's chip easily on par even though was a "failure".

Bitfurys Rev.1 chip is 14 sq mm so they get ~4000 chips per 300mm wafer.  The chips would need be underclocked to ~1.8 gh/s to achieve 0.75 j/gh at the wall so they would get ~7.2 TH/s per wafer.

In comparison AM get's ~23.5 TH/s per wafer at 0.75 j/gh. (It was supposed to be 40 TH/s at 12.8 gh/s per chip)

Bitfury probably cannot even produce 55nm hardware for the price AM is selling it for.

Quote
They got their money from VCs and only released this information long after securing the funding. They have very little incentive to lie or even exaggerate.  If it where a bluff intended to scare competition, it would be too late to have a meaningful impact.

That's actually not true at all. They release their roadmap on Sep 15 and announced that they secured the $20m investment on Oct 9. It was clearly a strategic move.

They will need to make massive improvements to their design if they expect 0.2 j/gh without it being ridiculously expensive.
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October 22, 2014, 11:29:35 PM
 #23806

It's a great chip but I think AM's chip easily on par even though was a "failure". - 1 year later...

To date AM has never made an amazing chip...they just had chips en masse first. The huge divs were because they were early and sold over priced hardware. Sorry to sound negative, but I just do not get why you guys think AM is so amazing. Maybe gen 4 will be a killer, but competition these days are no joke.
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October 22, 2014, 11:44:00 PM
 #23807

It's a great chip but I think AM's chip easily on par even though was a "failure". - 1 year later...

To date AM has never made an amazing chip...they just had chips en masse first. The huge divs were because they were early and sold over priced hardware. Sorry to sound negative, but I just do not get why you guys think AM is so amazing. Maybe gen 4 will be a killer, but competition these days are no joke.

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)
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October 23, 2014, 12:04:49 AM
 #23808

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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October 23, 2014, 12:16:29 AM
 #23809

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

Please do tell which manufacturer is selling 0.5 J/gh hardware.

It's on par with a Bitfury 40nm not 55nm. It is equally efficient yet half the price of their 55nm.
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October 23, 2014, 01:33:03 AM
 #23810

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

Please do tell which manufacturer is selling 0.5 J/gh hardware.

It's on par with a Bitfury 40nm not 55nm. It is equally efficient yet half the price of their 55nm.

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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October 23, 2014, 01:52:25 AM
 #23811

And the next Wednesday w/o a dividend has passed. Not to mention any info... :/


Yep that silence is deafening
Hmm if I made a bet in for news by December or a dividend would there be any takers
Or would it need to be a longer duration tempted to see what peoples news timeline estimates are and dividend timeline estimates.
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October 23, 2014, 02:11:10 AM
 #23812

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.
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October 23, 2014, 02:44:58 AM
 #23813

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

They sell because they are low price...not because they are great chips. AM sells for the cheapest so people buy. I assume there margins are not great at the prices they sell for. Didn't FriedCat say AM was negative cash wise?
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October 23, 2014, 02:49:09 AM
 #23814

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

Actually still having chips in stock sitting on shelves isn't something I would brag about after AM claimed to sell tons of PH in 3-4 months.

If sales are so great then where are the dividends. I assume that the whole chips production costs should be covered by now and also gen4 funding. So what's happening with all that extra money?

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October 23, 2014, 03:01:24 AM
 #23815

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

They sell because they are low price...not because they are great chips.

Isn't a low price + good efficiency the definition of a good chip?

Quote
AM sells for the cheapest so people buy. I assume there margins are not great at the prices they sell for.

I'm sure you would have said the same thing about the AM tube which was ~10% more expensive per chip compared to the Prisma.

People (mostly Roadstress) assumed AM was selling chips at a loss until FC clarified the profit margins will remain high.

Quote
Didn't FriedCat say AM was negative cash wise?

No he said the opposite. At the time of the last financial update AM had completely paid for 60PH worth of chips and since then they've sold a bunch of chips/hardware as well as began self mining.
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October 23, 2014, 04:37:48 AM
 #23816

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.
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October 23, 2014, 05:51:40 AM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 06:18:36 AM by jjdub7
 #23817

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.

Do you realize what lengths the AM team is probably having to go through right now to exchange currencies and keep operations running?  The fiat accounts are all in Hong Kong IIRC, and things over in that geopolitical sphere aren't exactly going smoothly right now...

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

https://blockchain.info/address/3KBUuGko4H5ke7EVsq9B7PLK1c5Askdd7y
https://blockchain.info/address/3MkwFfGNQDve7vz1z6gUDVxkuQpcSV3Mz8

The books show at least 44,846 BTC (~0.1121 BTC/share) in cash from these two accounts alone.  And before anyone goes off about how these addresses are actually from an exchange, I'd implore that you run a count (frequency) on the addresses of transactions to/from the 3Mkw address specifically over the past 3 months since mining and sales began again.

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI.  I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.


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btcbot
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October 23, 2014, 06:08:52 AM
 #23818

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.

I do like this part, though:
Quote
The Prisma is a definite winner. FriedCat has more tricks up his sleeve as well with new chips on the way and a new partnership we will report on here in the future.

Don't tip me... tip the Riseup folks who protect activists around the world.
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October 23, 2014, 06:42:01 AM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 06:53:30 AM by Bonam
 #23819

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote
In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI.  I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility
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October 23, 2014, 07:28:55 AM
 #23820

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote
In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI.  I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

To be frank, I'm still lost on the fact that they run the whole operation with like 5 people.


.BITENNY.
Simplify your future

    ▄███i      ████████████████
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