Bitcoin Forum

This is the start of a thread where I will collate various research to enable us to document / investigate on the prolific trolling, attacking, and apparent insider dealing activities of the Monero/Aeon core dev known as Smooth (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813) (real identity unknown).

UPDATE 14th Aug 2015:
--------------------------------------------
In an aparent 'revenge attack' for my making a thread to look into Smooth's prolific attacks on his competitors and questions about potential conflict of interest in him building up a small competitor (Aeon) to his main coin (xmr), Smooth has now ramped up his attacks on Dash and has committed to leaving a 'warning' message on the main Dash thread each day, until the 'media' agreed to his demands:


It's also entirely false that I was involved in drafting that message (lol) and I never received any content for 'open review and modification'.

My response on the Dash thread:

-------------------------------------------

About this investigation thread:

The reason for me to care to start this today was Smooth's current spamming of the Dash thread (with 28 posts of the same repeated scam accusation just in one day), essentially destroying the existing conversation there about the usual Dash topics / coming V12 release etc.

I have observed Smooth over many months and it is my opinion that he is in total conflict of interest as well as probably the most unprofessional and unethical dev I have seen on BCT with going around attacking his competitors without disclosing his position to benefit financially from that, also manipulating different cryptonote projects to position himself to profit such as his recent takeover of AEON, amongst other sketchy activities, and i am creating this thread as a starting point to see what information can be put together to investigate this person.

To start off, here is an example of the kind of unethical behaviour Smooth is doing - 50 posts just today attacking his competition and only 3 posts on the coins he is developing himself, without once admitting his absolute conflict of interest, as the core dev of a direct competitor:

Example Day of forum attacks by Smooth (today, 12th Aug 2015)

Attacking his competitors:

Dash thread: 28 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12125302#msg12125302) (competing with the anon feature)
Vanilla threads: 20 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148745.msg12120960#msg12120960) (competing for Poloniex volume)
Bytecoin thread: 4 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512747.msg12120288#msg12120288) (competing "Anon coin")

Posting on his own threads:

AEON: 3 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg12119430#msg12119430)
Monero: 0 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg12124988#msg12124988)

Smooth's competitors attacking his coins on any threads:

Dash devs: 0 posts
Vanilla devs: 0 posts
Bytecoin devs: 0 posts

And here is from when Smooth was spamming the Dash thread today and my reply with the current info I see problems with with what Smooth is doing that has a big conflict of interest (apart from trolling his competitors which obviously looks like he is trying to remove investors to own schemes)


Then a later reply I made to Smooth again on the Dash thread:


List of Smooth's development as a 'Core developer' of Monero since the project started:

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits?author=iamsmooth

Nov 9, 2014 Change 6 lines of codes, temporary bug fix (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/cc74b43651710fd37284b0c33e6c5423e5ab8537)
Nov 11, 2014 Commented out 2 lines of code (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/dde7897fd47063275063452cc1a425c6856f6739)
March 5, 2015 4 lines to change a variable and add IF statement (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/754a785ee15915c4d8d81dbd55d7005e07c6407e)
March 5, 2015 Added 4 lines of code, in the form of a comment (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/41a95e7b11ba9eb7ef94e1708f2407608148b8ed)
March 6, 2015 Added one line of code (a checkpoint) (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/7e72e943db5b2661c669c5631a15b595488677af)
March 10, 2015 Changing a default value and an IF statement, 6 lines of code (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/02969d69f066bcf7b15a06f92b93a407ffec0d2d)
Apr 5, 2015 4 lines of code and a comment (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/f2e8348be0c91c903e68ef582cee687c52411722)
Apr 5, 2015 2 lines of code to handle a rounding (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/83ddc942c1629d67b9897ba8be8632035527c6fc)
Apr 14, 2015 Remove a define, 1 line changed (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/1b19ee040fa6285aaf11a7fcbd8945bb5dc55e25)

There is a lot more info about Smooth's activities I will post later, this is just to start the discussion.

Full disclosure: I am (mainly) a Dash investor, I also used to have the account BlockaFett which I burned because it was taking up too much of my time arguing with Smooth posting over 1000 posts on various Dash threads over 5 months so I am not bothered to argue with him about the validity of any particular coin - because it's pointless, the market doesn't care, and investors on the whole decide on value, not guys arguing on a forum.  But I am back briefly because again he is posting 25 times today to crash the Dash thread accusing it of being a "scam" without posting once on his own thread, and denying conflict of interest - so here I am.  

Note to Monero community: I am not here to bash/judge Monero in any way, if I had my way, you would have kicked Smooth out long ago, calling him a Monero dev is a wild claim anyway because if you check his Github - he didn't do anything for Monero compared to the other devs: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits?author=iamsmooth.  And his AEON play is frankly a disgrace to anyone in Monero if he's doing what I think he's doing, and if I am right then it helps Monero to make sure he doesn't play that off using AEON as I suspect he will.

If you have any info on Smooth being unethical / unprofessional / insider dealing / market manipulation / conflict of interest, PM me or post here.  I have a truck load that I never could be bothered to collate but I will do that here some time if people want me to.  I won't spend a lot of time on this for now, my only interest here is to expose someone I sincerely believe is a scammer who if goes unchecked, with his 50 posts a day attacking any coin with investors he thinks he can bate to his schemes, BCT will just descend to a giant cesspit.

The guy is trolling threads constantly while he cloned bytecoin and tries to sell it as innovation.

Wow, smooth look at this! 
 
You earned your own dedicated troll account designed specifically to attack you. 
 
In case you are actually an impressionable drive-by lurker and are reading this topic, I urge you to realize the OP is a shill for Dash or Bytecoin, is butthurt figuratively and literally at Monero's open and honest development and is resorting to whining about his hurt feelings when one of the Monero developers calls out his favorite scams on being scams. 
 
Nothing to see here.  Your time would literally be better spent masturbating to .jpgs from 1995 that don't even fill up most of your screen anymore. 
 
Good luck and god speed. 
 
P.S. Can I get my own dedicated troll-attack account next?  I'm a huge narcissist so I'd love to read someone talking shit about me.

In the last 24 hours, Smooth has spammed 28 posts on the Dash thread about how he thinks "Dash is going nowhere (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12125302#msg12125302)".

On his main coin's thread in the same time, Smooth has posted nothing.  In fact, there are only 2 posts today.

So the first obvious question, why would a developer post on a competitors coins so many times, if he thinks it's going nowhere and bump their thread, leaving his own thread with only 2 posts for the whole day?  If the coin is going nowhere, what is the value in anyone pointing that out, let alone the core dev of a competitor?

Second question, as the dev of a competitor, he never mentions his massive conflict of interest because of his vested interest in the competitor coin he is representing, and the fact he is posting the same accusations more times than anyone else is posting about Dash.

I think these are fair questions and trying to sweep these concerns away doesn't really wash for anyone interested trying to keep crypto open, accountable, transparent and honest.

Saying I support Bytecoin is kindah ridiculous and I have a experience investigating scammers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=824211.0.  If you don't agree, it would help to explain why, trying to undermine the credibility of a valid debate with feigned ridicule and hyperbole isn't going to work with me though, just so you are aware.

Oh so he posted specifically in a topic entitled "Dash is going nowhere"? 
 
Did he go to the official Dash topic and start unwantedly bashing Dash to its supporters?  No?
 
Because if not, I think you are being whiny and worried too much about the opinions of smooth and his activity. 
 
Perhaps you should pay the same attention to fixing the glaring (and unfixable) issues with the currencies you mention.  This topic is silly and needs to be moved to "Meta" at best, and removed entirely at worst.

Professional trolls like Smooth are the biggest scumbags here...
Because they have enough in-depth knowledge to "appear" objective to n00bs...
And are experts are subtle fallacious reasoning that "appears" authoritative...
But their agendas are to impune and destroy the hard work of other Devs.

The Alt Forum has been effectively destroyed by Smooth and his Monero shills.

Keep exposing this c*cksucker... and I'll keep bumping this thread.

For those of you wondering, this is the penalty for anyone who continually points out the flaws in flawed currencies like Dash, Bytecoin, and VanillaCoin.  
  
So if you don't want to be character assassinated, please don't point out the gaping flaws in the ethics, launches, and distributions of scams that exist only to enrich those who got in early at your expense.  
  
Again, the mods need to delete this topic.  It serves no purpose but to cause issues in the community.

Something this forum has been getting wrong recently is lack of real rules. I believe in Liberty but Liberty is not Anarchy, society needs rules to function.

You can't get rid of newbie accounts easily (though you could make a minimum posting in a newbie section)

But what you can do is ban without mercy long term accounts that spread lies constantly.

This forum really needs to clean up this mess, this forum is getting a bad reputation.

No, Smooth posted about his latest theme of Dash "going nowhere" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12125302#msg12125302) 28 times in the last 24 hrs on the Dash main thread, in tandem with the loudest evangelist of your coin, Icebreaker, who has been spamming the main Dash thread daily for weeks - it's becoming impossible to have any kind of conversation there due to their spam coming from people representing your community, take a look and scroll through a few pages:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12124438#msg12124438

Like you, Smooth also asked wanted censorship of my point, saying it was off-topic to point out the obvious motive of his attempts to crash all discussion of Dash on BCT.


This is worth pointing out because it's obvious he is just on a mission to disrupt Dash, no dev will post 28 times a day on a competitor he thinks it's going nowhere, while his own thread is empty.

Then the other point is his involvement with AEON - why haven't Smooth's dual-interests now in Monero and Aeon been officially disclosed or where is this for both coins? (i.e. not in the OP...)  To what extent are the Monero community aware that Smooth is building-out Aeon with Monero and BBR features and with personal control of 2.5% of it's supply and whatever he has purchased, 2 very similar coins, with AEON volume on Bittrex today being $ 4,223 compared to Monero's $ 899? (using Bittrex because it's a reflection of the market demand when XMR & AEON are traded at the same exchange)

Without official disclosure of that, again it looks like he is concealing his conflicting interests.

Pegasus I get that you have your coin you support and Smooth has some involvement with it, but I am more concerned with Smooth personally than anything else, surely people can recognize his behaviour and see big problems - if nothing else, what about destroying the conversation on competitor coins main threads through repeating the same flash phrases to push people's buttons 100's of times over months, instead of an intelligent debate.

Regarding Smooth being a "dev" of your coin, looking at his github, less than 1% of commits are from him and nothing for the last 4 months - The idea of him earning the title "dev" there is pretty weak,  is his main work is Aeon and he looks quite busy on that (https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/commits?author=iamsmooth), his claim to being an Aeon dev looks a lot more valid.

As far as I can see smooth raises important issues and debates all who engage him with facts and reason and evidence.

I appreciate his efforts to educate people about scams.

Here's what actually happened. Someone on the Dash thread claimed that "the community voted not to relaunch". Now being a student of the Dash scam history, I found that surprising since I had never seen any evidence of it. Of course, it is patently absurd that a few dozen extreme early adopters voting not to relaunch after 2 billions coins were mined in 0.2 seconds or whatever it was would legitimatize it, so the argument would be false even if true, but in fact it seems to be false and false.

Now I happen to be willing to call out the Dash scammers on their bullshit because I'm not a party to this whole green wall of silence that exists around here were "devs" of scam coins don't criticize other scam coins because everyone is better off if you just keep quiet and scam-and-let-scam.

The result of me calling out of their bullshit was personal attacks against me, against every project I've ever been associated with going back to building a firetruck out of tinkertoys some years ago, and against my pet cricket. Of course this sort of behavior is going to result in many posts, in which I might add, essentially all of my posts (except perhaps when I responded directly to the baseless accusation of, and this is an actual quote, "running a scam") was on-topic on the subject of what did happen and did not happen with the Dash instamine and the community early adopters instaminers-and-whales (Ding!) who then decided to take the instamine and run with it, but now want it kept quiet.

It's really quite simple why they have a problem with me. I've never been involved with any scam of any kind. No scam businesses, no scam coins, no scam loans, no scam anything. No project I've ever been involved with has a premine, ninjamine, ninja-turtle mine, instamine, or any other kind of rip off or fraud. Despite false accusations from Dash supporters rabid dogs to the contrary, my forum trust is not bought, it was earned through honest dealings. I've never had any other forum account, sock puppet, nick or identity (other than the 'aeon' account that was handed to me by the previous developer and I use only to update the OP), and no one else has ever controlled this account since I registered it in 2011. There is no legitimate issue of scamming or trustworthiness or trickery. They simply don't like that I call out their bullshit.

Here's a public service announcement for X-coin/Darkcoin/Dash, Bytecoin, Vanillacoin, Bitcoin XT shills, and all the the rest of the scammers I've criticized and will continue to criticize:

If you want me to stop calling out your bullshit, stop bullshitting

I agree with that.

An easy thing to do with Smooth would be to catalog his literally 1000's of anti Dash posts in his long and tedious post history (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813;sa=showPosts), which boil down to maybe just 5 or 6 criticisms he recycles.  That is obviously someone working to disrupt and discredit another coin way-over any normal level that could be excused as 'honest concern'.   And with his obvious vested interest as the Dev of a competitor and how he does this to all his larger competitors, you have to be pretty brave to claim he's innocently trying to help people.

I agree, I think he's vicious and really strong in words game.

He love endless pseudo-debat. Always play with words to subtily make them say what he need to say.

He clearly have an agenda, and viciously, like to play the victim, crying here and there. And trying to convince that there is a complot or something, we have nothing to hide.

He's nefarious, and love taking the role of the heroe saving the world.

He's a pathetic psycotic Trollero, and don't understand what is ethic and profesionalism.
And lot of Trollero suporter think it's normal, because they all have nothing more to do than spitting on other coin threads (Because they have quite nothing on their road map...)

On the topic of conflict of interest, Mr blobafett2 or blockafett or whatever the fuck you are calling yourself these days, listen carefully.

As a long time active and aggressive Dash supporter and investor you stand to gain if you can discredit me and the "competing" projects that I happen to be associated with. You especially stand to gain if you can muzzle me and then Dash supporters can then continue unchallenged scamming new investors victims by hiding the instamine or making false or irrelevant claims about it such as "the community voted not to relaunch" (see above) or "it doesn't matter because it was redistributed" (again, false even if true but actually false and false).

So if you don't believe people with conflicts of interest should criticize others, then STFU and GTFO.  Or at least create a sock puppet or something when you are doing it so you don't look quite so catastrophically stupid.

Lets petition to get this smooth dickwad banned..

I've always fully disclosed my interests, and also explained my reasons for posting this, so people have fair chance to make their own mind up. That's my whole point, you never do that, whether it's trying to discredit your larger competitors with 1000s of repetitive posts over long periods of time, or now quietly taking over your smaller competitors and building them up with no full disclosure of your conflicting interests with the communities involved - you never disclose anything that an ethical person would do - those kind of people are usually the scammers, hence this thread.

Is it possible?  That would certainly be a win for 50% of BCT users with integrity that actually want to forward crypto with intelligent debate and ethical / professional coin teams.

smooth surely unethical and unprofessional that he trolling competitors thread instead of developing his own coin, worse is that his own coin being neglected as he invest in other coin. i wonder how monero holder can accept this ???

EDIT : Im selling my monero coin now, at least i still got profit. seeing this i fear monero will reach its lowest price.

FTFY.

He's listed as a developer on Monero ANN and Aeon ANN, what do you mean he should disclose his interests? Maybe put a disclaimer in his signature "I hold and help develop two (non-scam) Cryptonote coins, you may find this information relevant in the context of me calling out [insert-your-favorite-scam-here]"?  

Kind of interested as to why smooth chose to throw Bitcoin-XT in with the likes of DASH and BCN. How is XT a scam or being shilled?

That's one of the worst bullshit arguments I've ever heard. First of all everyone knows who the fuck I am, especially on the Dash thread.

Second of all, let's look at my "why the darkcoin/dash instamine matters" thread, which I use as an archive of evidence against the Dash scam, and frequently link when commenting on the topic:


(the bold, by the way, is not added, it is in the original)

Which I might add was added very shortly (hours I believe, but I'm not positive, it might have been the next day) after I crated the thread, on my own initiative.

Spare us the concern trolling that people are being misled because they don't know who I am. Nonsense.

It's transparent and pathetic. The real explanation is that you are a Dash troll who only wants to lash out at and (try to) intimidate honest community members, because the Dash scam can't survive and recruit new investors (especially the serious ones you need to actually get anywhere) unless honest critics are silenced, and the ugly history of the instamine, manipulation and insider self-dealing is buried.

Well it isn't going to work.

LOL at the "Let's ban smooth". You couldn't prove my case any more effectively if you tried.

The sentiment is good, to educate people about scams.

But the reality is, he is posting 1000's of "scam" posts on all of his major competitors, every day, for months.  

That is across the border from genuine concern to educate about scams, and into the territory of someone just attacking coins using well known techniques.  

And because he is a dev who attacks his competitors, the elephant in the room is that he is doing that to try to lower his competitor's price and raise his own.

People who want to expose scams will just make a single thread, or make their point a few times so the info is out there.  They don't keep repeatedly hammering the point thousands of times.  

I suggest you do a bit of research by checking his history, click back through some random pages, and you can see the scale of his effort to discredit his competitors.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813;sa=showPosts

From my reading of it I would challenge anyone who as actually done the research to claim this is normal behavior with 'honest concern' for his competitor's communities or 'educating people about scams'............

Just one particular instance that happened to come up recently, where an obvious shilling thread was created in support of it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151445.0

In general I have no opinion on Bitcoin XT and I haven't studied specifically how it works with the forking dynamics, so I would be irresponsible in expressing an opinion on the merits.

The point is, I call out the scammers, shills, and bullshit artists wherever I see them, whether it happens to be on an ANN thread or not. I'm not going to leave scam coins ANN threads as free-scamming zone. If they want that they can do self-moderated and live with the warning notice to readers or go circle jerk in a walled garden forum.

plus honest dev dont need to be anon...

what is the similiarity between ethereum, bitcoin, maisafe, dash ?   that the dev are NOT anon.

now take a look which coin died and its user scammed ? all of them gon anon dev.

I have never seen you disclose your conflict of interest, and I remember that thread and don't remember that statement, and being an OP you could have just added that now.

If you are going to start to admit your conflict of interest, that's a good thing coming out of this.

...Pretending that your attempts to discredit your competitors is for philanthropic reasons, however, is false, as I have shown above.

If you weren't an unrepentant Dash troll conducting a smear campaign, you might have done some research on that:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150512022003/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Your embarrassing your self....again!  Your a student of my DASH...my ass....your a student of shooting off your mouth! I was there...I have emails and correspondences to prove it....and I don't have to prove nothing to you.  

Those that have been there since the beginning don't owe you or ANYONE out there SHIT! Ok? ...now take your gypsy holy roller crusade somewhere else....like your community Aeon/XMR that apparently put up with your pseudo shit.

EDIT:  You should maybe learn to be a real developer like Evan, learn to not hide behind your "handle" and show the world who you are...but your balls out there...Like Evan.  That is who you should be studying...so give us your creditials MR. HOLY ROLLER?  I've put my name out there so has our DEV and a good part of our team...we don't need to hide.....MR. SMOOTH!

PS....I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST XMR other then the lying trolls that come from there.   I've NEVER bad mouth ANY OTHER COIN OR COIN DEV...other then SMOOTH, the pseudo dev.

Come on guys FFS. Obvious troll bait is obvious troll bait.

This shit has been going on for 15 months and every time is just as much of a waste of energy as the last.

You know the deal by now.

Pegasus - shame on you for fuelling a post that needed no extension.

Well it wasn't there when you started, and I remember calling you out for conflict of interest since May....

So I guess the people having to read your 1000's of 'scam' posts need to go to that thread to find it your admission o how you act in conflict of interest?

FYI to the readers, ^ the Monero gang have shown up...I have no interest in engaging in a FUD war with them, the point of this thread is to publish an investigation of Smooth, so I will stick to that.

You can certainly prove that a handful of insiders, meaning the developer, a few instaminers, and whales such as yourself decided to keep the instamine in your pockets, shut down early a vote on doing an airdrop to flatten the distribution, and then manipulate the emissions to boost your share of the coin holdings. Congratulations!

Roger that!  I secede.  I've said my thought about that individual.  done!

At which point were you or anyone else reading the Dash thread not aware of my affiliation?

In any case I don't care what you think is a conflict of interest. My statements stand on their own merit. If you disagree with them, refute them with evidence.

As for this so-called "investigation", good luck with that, troll. Aside from crap you make up as part of your smear campaign, there is nothing for your investigation to find, other than a guy who dislikes scams and bullshit. You might as well be investigating snowballs in hell.

Mr White your on permanent ignore...I can see your Name Mr. White in the left hand column...but I will NOT be opening your trolls.  To everyone else have a great evening!  ;) :-*

EDIT: Now i've added Mr Blimp Filler to the that permanent ignore list!

What pisses people (smooth, adamwhite, articmine, myself) about the dash instamine is that it says fairly launched on all of the dash media.

If the truth of the dashmine was put up there for everyone to see, no one would bother--but since Evan won't change the media so that it is accurate and keeps changing the name in what looks like an attempt to distance the coin from its past, then you get Smooth and others calling you out on your bullshit.

If you don't want your coin to be criticized on BCT, you should put the facts up for everyone to see--why is this a bad thing? Smooth, nor anyone else, should have to point out dash's fastmine; it should be on the media. Other coins that were premined and fastmined list it, so why not dash?

aaaahhhhh....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4)

"Facts" like how the (then and current) developer misled people about the launch time, a discrepancy that accounts for something like a million coins, arguably more?

You seriously think they are going to put that on their media? Unlikely.

Stop saying it's a scam. What scam? Who were scamed?

Who write the rules? What rules? What are you talking about? You create something, it's a free market, people are happy with what you are doing, happy with what you are delivering and buy the asset. If you really scam people or make something wrong they stop buying, end of the story.
Stop fucking with those pseudo-rules, there is not.

Who are you smooth to decide what is good what is wrong? Who?
Stop saying it's a scam, you can say : "imho I think that this is a scam". You don't decide what is good or bad, you have your opinion and that set!
No, you are not the one who decide, now we all know you opinion and you can shut your f. mouth!

Of course bigr.. How many times is that now? Atleast 3-4 times you've put me on ignore? LOL


https://i.imgur.com/kEW9ptG.png

Imagine all the love!!  ;) 8)


again....listen to the the calming tunes....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8)

The free market includes the freedom to express ideas, including critical ones.

If everyone is so happy with everything about Dash, and continues to be happy about it, then you have nothing to worry about.

Trying to silence critics is not the way to go.

You're not a critic smooth, you're a dev who posts 1000s of posts attacking his competitors with an admitted conflict of interest - just to clarify for you.  BTW, please try to stay on topic.

There is no topic, other than why you would create a bullshit topic, and the answer being that you are an unrepentant Dash troll conducting a smear campaign to try to intimidate critics of Dash into shutting up.

There is no evidence of any misconduct on my part, nor has there been any misconduct. No one other than butthurt called-out bullshitters and scammers has called for an investigation of me, nor has anyone offered a basis for one. It's typical forum trolling.

This by the way is the second hate thread Dashers have created for me. Did you do the other one too, or was that some other troll? I don't remember.

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the dash media reflects these facts, this warning will be posted every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning will not be posted when the media reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0


^^is this fair? Any edits, Blocka?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.  Personally I don't agree, seems like the BCT community doesn't either:

https://i.imgur.com/v2GQiLN.png

How to launch a shitcoin scam in just a few easy steps!


Step 1. Mislead as many people as possible about the launch time. Like so:




"Definitely not."  We all know he went on to launch it a couple of hours later. Bravo Evan, you're a class act. The pinnacle of integrity and professionalism.


Step 2. INSTAMINE!

https://i.imgur.com/nhrM2zE.png

Ignore the instamine for as long as possible. Deny it happened at all costs. Viciously attack anyone who posts irrefutable proof of the  massive instamine scam.

Note: Bonus points if you advertise "No premine" in your ANN title like Evan has done here (despite the massive 1.5 million instamine).
Did i mention the integrity and professionalism?


Step 3. "We only managed to instamine 1.5 million coins in 8 hours. Better lower the total supply from 80 million to 20 million. Oh, and cut the mining reward from 500 coins per block to 5 coins per block.. we're done instamining" -Evan Duffield

Why have 1.5 million out of 80 million when you can have 1.5 out of 20 million? Lower the total supply and cut the mining rewards drastically once you're done instamining. This is a no-brainer!

That disclaimer is whitewashing of what actually happened. To be fair the clickthrough has more, but some of the most important red flags are missing. To my mind the misleading statements about the launch time by the (then and current) developer with 1+ million coins mined between the stated launch time and the actual (earlier) launch time is possibly the most significant abuse that happened.

FYP

I suppose this thread turning into a Smooth-FUDgang-gangbang should have been expected with pointing out his attack techniques and recent AEON play...for anyone interested in Smooth's activities, just read the first page, and vote what you think.

I don't actually mind off topic stuff, it's a free world, and anyhow I trust people are smart enough to read between the lines and also do their own research - if they're not, that's their decision.

The way Evan responded to the launch time left him some (cleverly worded) wriggle room and saying he outright claimed a later launch time would lead to the possibility of a strawman defense. I want it to be non-debatable and concise.

Blocka, any facts you'd argue with?

Smooth, you may be more technically competent than I will ever be, but I have a lot to teach you about being a public personality.  
  
Lesson one: never respond to haters, and especially if they make a topic about you.   ;)  
  
No matter what they say.  You are the Kanye West of math and they are the peanut gallery trying to push your buttons.  
  
Just let the haters make you famous brother; fire only burns brighter when you put air into it.

Voted no - because none of these threads are, in fact, owned by the general topic starter, even Ann threads. So no, no conflict in public forum as this is a debate ground full of soap boxes, and these are not 'the coins'' threads.

I do consider the general act of constant, relentless debate more filibustering at times, but nonetheless, pretty safe to say that without scammers, there would likely be no smooth. At least not since early last year around mid April.

For those actually interested in the thread topic, just some speculation but there is this mysterious Boolberry account created 2 weeks ago that has now become quite prominent in the BBR community and weirdly is already a fan of 2 of his competitors, XMR and AEON...


the account is also raising donations like how Smooth raised 2.5% of AEON, and actually referencing that to try to push BBR donations:


The new Boolberry account also likes to go to the larger competitor threads and explain how they are scams too:


This new account seems to already have respect for the Monero dev team.


And is already a regular on the Monero Speculation thread:


Quite strange, i wonder who this new boolberry account is and why he came out just now? XMR, AEON, and now BBR, who technically are competitors, seem to becoming friends all around the same time, I wonder if there some connection?  

Smooth happened to state explicitly on the BBR thread that he won't have involvement, so I guess that proves it can't be him.  We have to keep speculating...

Sorry AP, you'll have to put in the requisite time on the DashHole thread to earn the privilege of a personalized dedicated troll account just for you.  The forum's Tor Tax being what it is, only the those of us inflicting maximum butt burn on the cargo cult are granted such a customized attack-the-attacker response.

Mine hasn't started any Two Minute Hate threads (the lazy git), but at least I enjoy free sig space thanks to RoadStress.   8)

^ Icebreaker, everybody.

OMG! A boolberry supporter also supports Aeon and Monero! What are the odds that fairly launched coins with similar qualities would have communities that respect each other?

GMaxwell and Peter Todd are respectful of Monero, therefore they cannot not be Smooth, right? Isn't this how your logic for dummies works Block--oh, sorry you did a name change like xcoin/dark/dash. I'll try to remember your current name.

uh huh...

You can speculate all you want, but I have no other accounts (except 'aeon', basically unused), and never have.

I do not know who is behind the boolberry account.

You know what's funny you will see every single one of those monero trolls coming to DASH ANN thread, including Smooth & Fluffy pony.  I would not be surprised if they also troll other ANN threads no wait they alrdy doing it lol.When ur coin has nothing to offer + boring developers since nothing coming out you come and look at ur neighbors house to play because they have tests and releasing new stuff ALL the time. Just look at Evan he's showing up to crypto shows more than all monero trolls spamming other coins threads haha.
Ohh and cry*p*to about into forums since that's the only thing you know about crypto yes cry*p*to

generalizethis,

You hit the nail on the head  Monero, Boolberry and Aeon were all fairly launched coins with reasonable emission schedules.  Boolberry is my primary focus.

blobafett2,

No need to draw conclusions from my compliments of other coins. I officially confirm I am not smooth.

Frankly there are too many conspiracy theories on bitcointalk. If you want to learn more about Boolberry visit our thread or r/boolberry. I won't make any other comments here other than I think smooth is an honest developer with a good understanding of the CryptoNote codebase.

Are you high, son?

Please prove that I post in the DASH ANN by finding a post of mine. Go go go.

I don't know whether fluffypony has posted in the Dash thread or not but they've certainly posted about him there. Here's an example of the "professional demeanor" that early insider and instamine-protector bigrcanada claims characterizes the Dash community:

Great job with your research. You have proved nothing.  I am not smooth.

Depending on your definition of competitor am I supposed to FUD BTC and LTC? How about CNY USD EUR and JPY? Just because I want BBR to succeed does not mean I am not allowed to compliment positive aspects of other currencies

There is nothing wrong with my support of other honest projects besides boolberry.

Wow FluffyPony you know I can not compete with youre copy paste cut skills...and delete. Notice how Smooth and Fluffy quote.
Please don't spam this thread or any thread by copy pasting codes...I have a feeling that you, Smooth and the other 26 Monero developers "lol" sat together after copying Byte coin and said NOW WHAT.

If changing font colors sounds like coding then I guess you are coders but this is also coding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YozN5VX1VU4

I love how good your memory is but you forgot to attack Monero -- or did you?

No, I have never "gone by" any other name here. Not ever.

That does not prove he is a liar, it proves you did not read all his comments in this thread. He already stated he has control over the Aeon account but just uses it for the purpose of updating the OP

Correct. Moreover I don't "go by" that name because whenever it is used it is transparent that I'm the one making use of it. Everyone on the AEON thread knows.

EDIT: I just double checked and indeed the last post on that account was by the previous developer before I took control of it. I've never used it to post, only to edit the ANN OP.

That is a lie, or an error. I do not know which.


Other than Monero and AEON, that is also a lie, or an error. I do not know which.

Yes absolutely. If I'd posted in the DASH thread and subsequently deleted the post that would definitely still count.

Edit: just to add - I'm reasonably sure I was invited into the thread many, many months ago to respond to something. OP's accusation is that I "post" in the DASH ANN with implied regularity, which is nonsense.

Nice pole, seems the answers are speaking for themselves.

Also from a personal experience, smooth keeps on constantly attacking other threads even though he gets every question/request answered.


Whenever someone asked an advice on a privacy oriented project, I showed them to the XMR thread/project, but it is getting boring that we keep getting attacked from a monero dev.

Wow BCX here, so BCX did you find success in your mission to kill Monero with an exploit you were barking like a dog about?

Suck it up, you low life

Absolutely not! Censorship doesn't help.

Let us discuss.

Other than the OP's point about smooth potentially using his reputation from Monero to get a faster ROI in AEON (which the poll on this thread is not about), and also smooth's tendency to get carried away with attacking scams (this is very big issue for him), I don't see any legitimate complaint.


The post from smooth seems to summarize well:


Smooth has been trying to follow the various frauds alleged and so went over to the thread (perhaps out of boredom?) to follow up on the following. And during that time, he let himself get carried away with retorting what he believes to be a scam that is giving the entire altcoin community a bad reputation. He obviously feels as do I, that investors will shy away from all altcoin if so many scams continue to proliferate. That is why I gave my frank assessment of VanillaCon (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151160.msg12128925#msg12128925) this week. I have not attacked DarkCoin and I will not attack Dash. My reasons are stated below.


Smooth would be wise to stop commenting on Dash.

I (as AnonyMint) stopped last year on DarkCoin after helping Evan a bit in public posts (no back dealings, I earned nothing from that) while also pointing out the flaws of CoinJoin (which I was the first to point out in Gmaxwell's thread on CoinJoin way before DarkCoin was ever conceived).

Dash has just enough substance that it is very difficult to successfully enlighten the foolsn00bs. Let them be foolsn00bs.

Any way we soon we can move the entire anonymity space head & shoulders away from that noise and it will be done. There won't be any need to attack Dash on a daily basis any more to protect foolsn00bs from a marginal anonymity coin that is alleged to be a scam. Trust me.

AnonyMint and BCX, together again!

I feel special.

No I am not against you on this issue smooth. Please reread my post.

I am saying that your trying to do the ethical action of weeding out the scams and shit coins.

I am also saying that when we do that, we tend to get carried away (because we become so tenacious when researching and compiling the issues). For example, I was a bit upset that after reading VanillaCon's white paper that I had wasted that time on something which doesn't even have a specification. How gullible can investors be to invest in something that has no specification  ??? :'(

In Dash's case, hey yeah there are more holes than Swiss cheese, but they have some right to claim they are trying to do their best. They can't help it that they are just are not smart enough to do cutting edge math and other research required for something like Blockstream's Confidental Transactions or Cyptonote.

Let them have their Swiss cheese. I have not been following the premine issue at all. I don't care. It is already done. The community has too much inertia already. You have to just let it play itself out.

On AEON, I don't care what you do there. I would understand trying to get something rolling where you could make more experiments faster. I don't know how your XMR brethren feel about it. Any way, it is not my concern. Why should you not be able to compete and innovate  ???

I think the golden rule here is Matthew 7. Attack and you will be attacked. So you need to decide if it is really worth it? You already have the thread about the alleged premine. As for the Swiss holes in the anonymity, I think Monero could be more concise on its website as to the distinction. Communicate more clearly on the Monero website. There is far too much noise on that website IMO (as an experienced web marketer).

It wasn't meant that way. Just a light hearted observation about me being the catalyst (for the thread) that brought the two of you together a year or so later. A touch of nostalgia perhaps.

Hahaha. Well I admit I allowed myself to get sucked into something.  :-[

I was thinking about that the other day and it is embarrassing.

The anonymity tech is difficult to explain so that distinctions can be understood by laymen.

That I as an experienced software dev (but not yet experience cryptographer) could get sucked into some misunderstandings should serve as evidence of how people such as john-conner can think they are on to something big but be entirely off.

There needs to be much better articulation all around. White papers, websites for coins, etc..

Let's see if we can raise up a bar that all coins have to rise to if they want to compete. I am not talking about fancy presentations with meaningless buzzwords (zero knowledge anonymity, zerotime, zero censorship, etc..) and insufficient detailed explanation yet that still somehow make n00bs wet their pants ('dey loves 'dem buzzwords ya know).

Let's attack through competition, not in threads. That is my call to action now.

Edit: everyone wants to think they discovered a gem. Even we devs too. The proof in the pudding is writing down proofs in a white paper. And then peer review of those. Implementation is a matter of encoding what is in the white paper. But in Bitcoin's case, much of what is encoded isn't even in any white paper. For example, Maxwell recently explained about the heuristics he uses to control Sybil attacks on P2P network interconnections. Didn't seem very sound to me. There are more Swiss cheese holes likely lurking out there in cryptoland. We need to check our pompousness at the door (meaning myself too). This stuff is difficult to fully specify formally. It is a huge effort. Should we get busy?

Another problem right now is that most of the users of cryptocurrency are the speculators. Thus decisions about which coins to invest in tends to be driven by n00bs speculators, instead of by actual use.

When we get to the point where users are more important than investors, then the market will naturally chose a winner as it did for MSDOS, Windoze, and lately Android.

In all those cases, network effects is what beat the competition (and Steve Jobs twice made that mistake of a walled garden ecosystem first for the MacOS and repeated for iOS).

My point is there are bigger fish to fry than infighting amongst ourselves. Let's go increase the size of the pie instead.

Can I just ask, did you acquire any AEON yet Pegasus?  Smooth did, at least 2.5% just in donations according to the AEON thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg11284315;topicseen#msg11284315).  Although I guess, if you just read the XMR thread, no way you could know that.

AEON market cap: $ 141,584
XMR market cap:  $ 4,201,966

AEON volume on Bittrex: $ 1,404
XMR volume on Bittrex: $ 943

Smooth's commits on AEON: 43 commits (https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/commits?author=iamsmooth)
Smooth's commits on XMR: 9 commits (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits?author=iamsmooth)

Smooth's latest position on GUI with AEON hat on:


Smooth's latest position on GUI with XMR hat on:



Both coins claiming the same features:

- True anonymity & data protection
- Untraceable payments uses ring signature
- Unlinkable transactions with random data by the sender
- Blockchain analysis resistant
- CPU/GPU mining, ASIC-resistant

So just running a few scenarios...what happens as AEON grows now, with all the work Smooth is doing bringing in Monero an BBR features (https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/releases), and the market cap starts to approach $1 million (or 25% of XMR's).  I guess that will be new money, no other investment from the XMR community, so there is no conflict with XMR?  

I guess none of us know what Smooth is really doing right? - maybe he now has 50/50 of his holdings in both XMR / AEON.  Or maybe he dumped XMR or will do in future, or maybe the other way around.  With the lack of any confirmed information, or even a hint from the inside, no way for us to know.

One thing is sure, if AEON gets to $1 million market cap in the near future, Smooth's 2.5% of AEON will be worth $25,000.  If AEON can reach XMR's market cap, that's a cool $100,000 just from donations he received (plus anything he bought along the way).   I wonder what he will do if he is in that position with $100k+ AEON?  Keep it for the 'long haul'? Dump it and buy XMR?  Run off with the BTC?  Buy another coin?

Without any official responses or disclosure to any of this, I guess we have to speculate for the info in threads like this in the backstreets of BCT  ::)

I like the part where the AEON OP claims the following:


No wallet gui: check
No precompiled miner: check
No features: check
Fork: check


Yeah, fair, only  users can mine it who can compile it because there is nothing precompiled for windows. Also fair because...?


This is a released feature?

And meanwhile smooth spends 90% of his time bashing on different project threads and neither does coding for Monero nor anything valuable for AEON.

Wait there is more: he is on a quest to save people from shitcoins according to his sig while building his own pointless shitcoin

$100,000 is chump change. I earned that in 2 months (inflation-adjusted) in 2001.

I believe these guys have a lot more money than that and they are dabbling with small amounts of their money in projects they think might have large potential.

They are trying to find the next home run, while holding a core, large position in BTC. Their Monero holdings are even smaller than their BTC holdings (or at least it was before Gavincoin was on the threat horizon).

I believe if they see superior technology and market momentum, they will quickly be joining that camp.

These guys are trying to figure out how to expand the pie beyond the limited scope of bitcointalk.org. They are experimenting and trying to find the killer combination.

I am also experimenting.

Personally I am not interested in attacking Dash. The masternode concept is fundamentally flawed because it is not autonomous. It violates the end-to-end principle. But if people want an inferior system for speculative frenzy reasons (or what ever reasons they have), then who I am to tell them what to do?

Smooth already created a thread which details the alleged instamine for Darkcoin. He provided a disclaimer there acknowledging his conflict-of-interest. I wasn't even aware of that until I read smooth's thread.

Again I would suggest to smooth to back off of attacking Dash. Nothing more will be gained from that and it is counter productive. The way you help is by educating n00bs in your own site and threads. And that doesn't need to be an attack on Dash. Simply explaining why autonomy is important and why CoinJoin (and other off chain anonymity such as CoinShuffle) is not autonomous and can never be.

To your credit, I ack that the vote here should indicate to smooth the counter vailing forces to excessive attacking. You don't go against a large community. That is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Also I hear you guys about being more about coding than talking. Hear here. I will definitely internalize that wisdom.

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-talk-is-cheap-show-me-the-code-linus-torvalds-273528.jpg

One of the reasons I liked Evan was he was (as far as I knew) a non-anonymous guy coding and creating his own coin while being very chatty with the forum. I figured he was sincere. I am surprised to read about the alleged instamine.

Quite an honest post, and I hadn't considered that full scenario, but it makes sense, just from the fact that Smooth appears to be a 24/7 operation on BCT without needing a day job, and how he flits around different coins.  If it's true, it's a good way to hedge their bets, but again for the investors not "in the know" who invest in one or another of his coins while they are 'experimenting', I don't think it sounds like a very good deal.

I (unsurprisingly) disagree about masternodes - segmenting the Bitcoin network topology into multi-tiers that can be incetivized and used to build apps & services on top (integrated mixing being the first service, instant transactions another, blockchain funded development / governance being the next) - fixes a major gap / missed opportunity in Bitcoin's architecture and this model, coupled with my confidence in the professionalism & ethics of the dev team and their consistent delivery performance, is the reason I invest in Dash - just to state that, and just my opinion.

I have not looked at that feature.

It will be very counter productive to try to convince Dash supporters who believe in such features that they are wrong.

I'd rather expend the effort trying to grow some new features and markets.

Attacking each other won't reach our goal of spreading cryptocurrency.

I believe smooth was very focused on how scams can detract from altcoins. But also we have to balance that against no one here was anointed the "altcoin police". In the case of VanillaCoin, there wasn't yet a large community and so I felt safe to point out that its main feature doesn't seem to be backed by the white paper. I am done commenting about VanillaCoin. People are free to make their own decisions with their money. I am making some comments today about ShadowCoin vs. Monero, because that is Cryptonote which is very relevant to the work I am doing, so I wanted to express my expertise in that area.

You Dash supporters go do what you like. If ever you like something I am working on, then great. If not, we'll just see what the market decides after all.

Peace.

Policing implies authority, of which none is claimed, so that meme is quite irrelevant. Stating an opinion is something else. While there will always be a vocal subset of the audience who aggressively oppose an opinion contrary to their interests, they are not the audience of interest.

This point is obviously misleading or wrong or both.  Smooth has been posting sometimes dozens, sometimes only a few posts every day on that thread.  For many months.  That is not a casual "oh, let's see what's happening on another thread".  That is a dedicated, full time mischief maker gone amok.

Of course you are free to continue expressing your opinion. And I wasn't faulting you for wanting to help educate or clarify.

But it I think carries a heavy price to try to persuade in a thread where a lot of the community there is already enamored with the feature set or the vision for the coin.

Humans are much more likely to associate you with being some authoritarian force than a force of reason and help.

Our goal needs to be how to spread cryptocurrency out to more people, not how to divide the spoils of those few people who land on bitcointalk.org.

With anonymity, our goal should be about preparing for the coming stampede into private assets starting next summer or so.

Let me give you an example. Right now if you want to communicate anonymously there is only one app that can maybe do it correctly. Bitmessage. Nothing and nothing else out there can even get close to giving you anonymity (which is not the same as encryption). And Bitmessage sucks! Sucks! Sucks!

That is a huge untapped market. And I very, very, very much doubt ShadowCoin has cracked that nut correctly or even with a well documented open protocol that many people can create clients for. Edit: apparently ShadowChat appears to be a Bitmessage-like clone (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1140006.msg12132177#msg12132177) but doesn't document anti-spam and scaling issues.

We need to get busy. There is so much coding and work to do.

Okay I end here. I consider smooth to be an upstanding person. I hope he can help to push us forward on innovations. Dash is small potatoes. Let's shoot big.

These forums can become quite addictive. Look at me. Didn't I say I was going to code today  :-[

You assume motive: persuasion.


And again,  you assume motive: dividing spoils.


On this and the most if not all of the snipped portions, we agree.

This is a lie or an error, I do not know which. Therefore, of course, your conclusions can not follow from a false premise.

Seriously?  New features bad and new features good?


Then stop with your "they are wrong" stuff.

sheesh.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that is your motive. I mean that is the way you may be perceived.

And to me, that is not worth the gain in educating a few of their readers with my logic because of how it will cause them to never, ever, ever invest in my work in the future. I mean it will create an animosity for very little gain.

I'd much rather be off trying to figure out how to tap some new market.

I realize I did create some animosity in the past most against "Bitards" but this was because they were attacking me every time I tried to interject some doubts about the true nature of Bitcoin, etc.. But by now, I realized better to go do my own thing and make action. I stopped commenting in those Bitcoin threads.

Here is a simple research tool.

https://i.imgur.com/9XjQKY2.png

It's on every page of this forum.  If you type in the word "smooth" on that thread, I think you'll validate my assertion.

Who is wrong?

Masternodes are not autonomous anonymity. I have no comment about other bells and whistles implemented with masternodes. Haven't studied those new features.

I stand by my comment that there is absolutely no details in the white paper for VanillaCoin. The claimed methodology is documented by research not to achieve Byzantine consensus.

I stand by my comments today about ShadowCoin that is appears to be a Cryptonote clone with some claimed extra features which don't have documented anonymity Edit: apparently ShadowChat appears to be a Bitmessage-like clone (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1140006.msg12132177#msg12132177) but doesn't document anti-spam and scaling issues.


Could you please clarify which of my statements is opinion and not fact?

Edit: I have just been sent the full white paper on VNL's zerotime. So I will need to read that now.

Please identify the posts you claim to exist "every day" between August 2 and August 6, as well as between May (!) 19 and July 20.

None have been deleted by me, nor do I recall many if any relevant forum mod deletions.

These time periods are not intended to be a full accounting of counterexamples to your claim within the period of "many months."

I still do not know, lie or error.

blobafett2 claims (quite rightly) that masternodes are simply incentivized full nodes that provide extra functionality.  One of these functions is mixing.  Nowhere did he say that masternodes ARE autonomous anonymity.

I would REALLY ask myself, why two different coins?

Why wouldn't I just focus my efforts on one coin and make it the best out there?

But I never said they are wrong. So why did you tell me to stop with "they are wrong"?

P.S. Masternodes have a complex description and I am not sure any of us entirely understand them. Last time I checked they were things you could buy. That changes the economics. They are not nodes paid with proof-of-work shares. I don't even have time to go analyze such an adhoc design (with copious tweaks to their meaning and functionality along the way I assume) and try to characterize what they really are formally.

In computer science we understand adhoc design = no design or flying blind.

My suspicion is that AEON represents nice upside - it has only ~2% of Monero's market cap, but 99% of it's released features.  Using his reputation and position as a Monero core dev, quite easy for Smooth to start building up AEON (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg12119430#msg12119430), and with the lack of any real difference to the feature set from Monero, and with Moneo's own dev working 5x more on Aeon than Monero, AEON suddenly becomes an attractive buy and up goes the market cap....and Smooth was in, quietly (until I started pointing out), at the start.  Of course, just my opinion.

Maybe it is designed to take out all the other CN clones except the market leader to clear out the system to two coins both controlled by "trusted leadership"?

Does sort of make one wonder if smooth was trying to prove that cryptocurrency is dead because it can be cloned and siphon value.

But it could also be that Monero may be planning to change its anonymity algorithm from CN to this new thing that mixes all the transactions in the block, so maybe AEON will retain the CN functionality and so he can invest on both technologies.

And then he needs to invest in mine too  ;D

Hey what is the problem with competition?

I do think you have a point though that it is better to invest in a coin where the lead developer is totally committed. And that lead dev is committed to improving only his ecosystem to stay ahead of the competition. I find that to be a valid point. Who is that developer for Monero? fluffypony?

I think the main issue you had with him is whether he is excessively expending time repeating criticisms over and over in other coins' threads. Again that is a subjective criticism.

I don't think it's an ad hoc design, as I understand it, it's just taking an existing p2p topology and classifying a section of the nodes to be able to preform higher functions / form  their own mesh internally and then incentivize them and a quorum system for tie it together, and then building various applications/services on top of that.  Most P2P networks have multi-tiers, e.g. Skype promotes end-nodes to super-nodes to route more traffic if you have a good connection... in P2P network design, Bitcoin is notable for *not* having multi-tiers.  That's why I say it's a missing feature from Bitcoin which just has a single tier of fullnodes essentially, maybe Satoshi would have implemented it too if he was still around, it's not rocket science. (but I guess a lot of people never looked into it because Dash thread is 80% FUD, maybe the FUDsters 'get it'?) :D 

Makes sense, of course coins need to have at least one dedicated developer (developing new features, not a new GUI or something S### like that, that's not a real developer), or they become another "shitcoin" over time or right away.
And there's the "money talking" of course, that's usually the main reason...  :o

Except P2P networks are not Byzantine fault tolerant against Sybil attacks.

Skycoin's white paper proves that only need 0.9% of the top-tier nodes to take over a reputation linked network.

And wikipedia also documents that virtual synchrony is not Byzantine fault tolerant.

If you are just doing a vote (quorum), then isn't essentially proof-of-stake which can be gamed unless the entropy is unbounded (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1140006.msg12132623#msg12132623).

Again if I had an incentive I could try to follow all that and explain why it is unsound. But I don't have an incentive. So you all can proceed with adhoc design if that is what you want to believe will win. I believe those with higher scholarly knowledge will win. We understand what Byzantine fault tolerance means.

Again I am not saying you are wrong, because I haven't studied Dash lately and I don't have time to. It is giant obfuscation for me to try to dig into. Does even have a stable white paper that justifies the Byzantine fault tolerance?

Smooth gets it...

I think that's where the collateral required comes in, you need 1000 Dash confirmed in the wallet for it to be able to function as a masternode.

There's some whitepapers / discussions from the OP: https://www.dashpay.io/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Dash-WhitepaperV1.pdf, https://dashtalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/, https://www.dashpay.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf - not trying to sell Dash, just sharing the info in case you did feel any incentive to learn more about it.

Ping me again once there is a stable white paper for what is to actually be Dash. Seems like with the allusion to updates, they are still in flux and invention/tweaking mode. I'd prefer to read one time than have to reread again and again. But if I have extra time and curiousity, I will look at what you linked now. Thanks.

I agree with all that. My main issue is the repeating of critcisms yes, he's going around destroyig the conversation anywhere someone is investing in something he doesn't like.  

And after personally observing this for months, you get to see that the timing of it is basically, anything that looks like it's improving against Smooth's coin, suddenly becomes a "scam" that needs to have it's threads trashed.  Or for the regulars like Dash and BCN, they also get trashed just when Smooth's coin goes up or down on it's own, kind of like a drunk abusive husband taking his anger out on the rest of the family because he just lost at the races, or just won and decides to smash up the garden of his neighbour with the nicer house to get one up on them.

You can see just this week, VNL is becoming a large volume coin on Poloniex - it's go nothing to do with anonymity, but it is taking Monero volume on their main exchange, and lo and behold, up pops Smooth and the gang to trash talk it - I just posted about that here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151160.msg12131836#msg12131836 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151160.msg12131836#msg12131836)

It's always the same story, which shows it's about the money and not "protecting people" - basically with VNL, Smooth and the gang saw a new coin taking precious Poloniex volume from Monero and didn't like it, and decided to go trash talk it down.

Well honestly I criticized VNL perhaps before smooth did I this week. It was because someone pinged me in PM asking my opinion. Then I was shocked to see there was no documentation of the zerotime algorithm which is the main claim. But now I need to go read the detailed zerotime paper just released to see if I need to rescind my criticism or not. I created extra work for myself, but maybe I will learn something so okay.

Btw, thanks for informing me about AEON.

This altcoin strategies world is quite stressful.

I am just hoping there is one set of designs that is so clearly superior that everyone for the most part just realizes it and capitulates without the need for any grinding animosity and tearing at each other. And I hope it is my design, lol  ;D

Peace.

Yeah, I haven't checked out VNL like you haven't with Dash, maybe I will take a look.  Thinking about it, all I read about VNL was Smooth's attack posts, which stopped me looking into it even though I am assuming it's all FUD to knock VNL back down the Poloniex volume list...maybe that is the real goal of the FUD, to try to create a bad name for something so new people don't look into it  :o

What's your project right now?

to OP : if you could somehow by creating this topic keep smooth in here occupied instead of having him daily troll us at the Dash forum we would be in your debt sir  ;D
Pls carry on..

edit : damn, i almost forgot to vote.. fixed

Sorry for asking this, but could somebody tell me
What are real "inventions/software inventions" in XMR and/or AEON? Or are they just a copy of some other coinbase.
Because real coders know how things work and not just code a new GUI or something like that, they make the code better, improve and develope new things.

If you have 30 minutes of spare time I would advice you to watch this, basically explains how Monero (AEON) works -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks

that did not answer the question...
he ask if there is substantial difference between xmr / aeon and  other cryptonote or is it just clone ?

This is veering off topic and I'm going to respect that even on this troll thread, but in short Monero has done an enormous amount of work to improve the code. I think fluffypony posted that something like 100K lines of code had been added or rewritten (I don't know the exact numbers). I know there have been >1000 commits in the main repo (and unlike the repos such as bitcoin forks, this does not include upstream commits -- that's 1000 actual Monero commits) plus unmerged work on other repos. Monero has also produced four MRL research reports, plus a few other mathy documents.

AEON is a much smaller and newer project in practical terms, as we've only been working on it for a few months with me as the only coder, part-time (we also have another team member but he is not a coder). In that time, there is a modified proof of work algorithm and slower block time (with a hard fork implemented to change these with zero observed disruption of the network), better connection management in the p2p, portability cleanups for low end hardware (some of these are from Monero, others will be pulled back up to Monero), some optimizations of speed and storage. AEON also addressed, in a novel way, the anonymity problems revealed by MRL-0001. In fact AEON likely has the strongest deployed anonymity of any coin today (aside from the important fact of not having much use which makes the anonymity sets small), though eventually Monero will get there too.

Better to follow up on the Monero/AEON threads please if you wan more detail.

Smooth wouldn't be on point if you decided to share with us your personal motivation for taking on AEON (given you've been accused of doing it just to capture microcap vs. small cap growth rate advantage)? If you feel that is your private affairs, then my apologies in advance. No obligation to share that. Personally I am curious to know. Are you experimenting with new tech? Scratching your coding itch? Or what? Perhaps you've already stated it else where but I don't have time to search for it.

Of these 1000 commits, 9 were Smooth, if you're interested they break down like this:

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits?author=iamsmooth

Nov 9, 2014 Change 6 lines of codes, temporary bug fix (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/cc74b43651710fd37284b0c33e6c5423e5ab8537)
Nov 11, 2014 Commented out 2 lines of code (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/dde7897fd47063275063452cc1a425c6856f6739)
March 5, 2015 4 lines to change a variable and add IF statement (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/754a785ee15915c4d8d81dbd55d7005e07c6407e)
March 5, 2015 Added 4 lines of code, in the form of a comment (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/41a95e7b11ba9eb7ef94e1708f2407608148b8ed)
March 6, 2015 Added one line of code (a checkpoint) (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/7e72e943db5b2661c669c5631a15b595488677af)
March 10, 2015 Changing a default value and an IF statement, 6 lines of code (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/02969d69f066bcf7b15a06f92b93a407ffec0d2d)
Apr 5, 2015 4 lines of code and a comment (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/f2e8348be0c91c903e68ef582cee687c52411722)
Apr 5, 2015 2 lines of code to handle a rounding (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/83ddc942c1629d67b9897ba8be8632035527c6fc)
Apr 14, 2015 Remove a define, 1 line changed (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/1b19ee040fa6285aaf11a7fcbd8945bb5dc55e25)

Also Smooth, just saying you have 1000 commits is a bit vague - looking at your work, that doesn't necessarily mean new features were created, nearly all your work for Monero was changing a few comments, disabling or enabling something, changing a variable name - how is that "rewriting" anything or adding lots of new code?

He said "> 1000 commits" and never said they were his--as he was answering a question about Monero and not himself. I guess you are used to "one Dev to rule them all"  in dashland.

I know which commits are Smooth's because I just posted them above for you - and it's mainly commenting / uncommenting or removing a variable and putting it back.  I think he did like 2 small IF statements, which personally after reading them all, was the highlight of his entire Monero development career:

 if (base_reward < FINAL_SUBSIDY_PER_MINUTE)
+ {
+ base_reward = FINAL_SUBSIDY_PER_MINUTE;
+ }

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/754a785ee15915c4d8d81dbd55d7005e07c6407e.

It's becoming kind of ridiculous to call Smooth a "Monero dev" at this stage, I don't think I can honestly say that anymore.  

(I guess I should check AEON next, but after reading all 30 lines of code Smooth changed in Monero in the last 18 months, i need a break, it's a lot to plow through I can tell you)

He told you upthread that he has contributed mental effort on design, white papers, etc.. I know personally he was the developer who interfaced with me during the BCX incident and he and I discussed potential means to unmask anonymity.

I think the only potential valid complaint you had is letting him know you don't appreciate the frequency of his posting in other coins' threads, and asking him to explain his intentions with AEON. That doesn't mean you are correct, but you have a reasonable SUBJECTIVE point to make there that apparently some voters agree with. He has also has the right to express his opinion as much as he wants and absorb the political repercussions.

But if you ignore what he already said, it starts to look like you want to do a hatchet job on him and taking irrational revenge.

You won't be able to turn the entire altcoin community against smooth if that is your objective. You can express your opinion. Personally I am not willing to take the political heat that smooth is. I am a developer more than I am a martyr.

I'm sure he'll be crushed. But it stands that your 1000 commit statement was wrong--misread or blatant overstatement for effect? It's anyone's guess. I'm guessing your brain doesn't know what it's doing.

He's not even right about the number of my commits, because the github search is broken and he was told this the last time he went on one of his butthurt trolling fits against me.

Never mind though. We now return to your regularly scheduled troll thread.

No, you misunderstood - when I said "your 1000 commits" I meant Smooth's project, Monero - obviously I am not claiming he did 1000 commits, when I just cataloged all 9 that he did do since the project started.

Personally I don't think that someone who changes 30 lines of code can call himself a dev, yet he is presented as a Monero dev, and is even using that cache to build up Aeon, a coin he owns a large % of and that is competing with the coin he has been "developing" for the last year.   As to what you think is valid or not, that's entirely up to you, please read the OP first though and then vote in the poll and you can see what the BCT community thinks too.

Reread and you'll see that it sounds like you're implying that he lied about the 1000 commits, and after your github research  ::), found out that he was misleading us and only has 9 commits. Changing you have to monero has would do a great do to clear up your meaning.

Not really interested in nit-picking over semantics Generalize, if you don't think my English is good then that's up to you.  If you're upset because you didn't understand something, I already explained how it's riculous that I meant to suggest Smooth did a thousand commits of anything in Github, i'm saying totally the opposite.

I would not mention these as improvements, every other coin does this, modifies the POW algo, diff algo etc, slower/faster block and of course hardfork which is just one if,elseif,else clause and that's when there are several forks.. But I'm not sure about the rest, usually these "developers" copies the code from another coins... Would love to see a diff from these sections compared to all of the known coins source codes and see if there are really innovations or just copied code. So a run in the plagiarism machine would reveal this, But I cannot say more... Hopefully they are real improvents in the code..

But basically I understood that AEON is a proving ground for Monero.

I added a grammar correction to my above post--you might learn something about how to pin-down your correct meaning. If you give me a 50/50 reading with a dasher, I'm going to guess misleading or false every time--the apple doesn't fall far from the Dev.  ;)

Here are some comments I have written on the rule and purpose of AEON, as well as the history and management of its donation fund. I'm pretty sure there is also a related post on bitcointalk but I couldn't find it so I'll add that if I come across it later.

I will try to improve my English, just for you Generalize  :-*

You do not need a plagiarism machine. All changes are transparent in github, and committed as individual work items (not mega-commits). There has been no reformatting, no stripping out of upstream copyright notices, etc.

As others have pointed out, the 1000 commits had nothing to do with my (not 9) commits.

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you probably would not have been able to perform all of those (not 9) commits correctly, if any of them.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f3/57/fd/f357fd9a8196f369e8d98edc9dc14108.jpg

Re: the masternode discussion on page 6 of this thread, the fundamental problem with masternodes is they are not dumb intermediaries (i.e. as in the end-to-end principle that guides the design of internet protocols) and thus they can violate expected behavior. And example is their use in 0-conf transactions:

https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/241012134

http://vanillacoin.net/papers/zerotime.pdf


I have been designing a 0-conf, fully scalable consensus network that doesn't have the flaws of VNL's zerotime nor the masternode problem. One of the key epiphanies was making nodes dumb intermediaries where it is impossible for them to cheat.

Based on what qualifications to make such a determination?

Do you think the success of the donation fund is a reasonable retort to my assertions that I needed to ICO to get a coin well funded to do massive development post launch?

I would argue AEON coin holders are desperate given Monero in the distant lead and so many CN clones. So I will argue it is not an applicable comparison. Sorry that is off topic here...

Well first I think that the fact that it was I who recently found the code in MyMonero.com that was causing user's private keys to be sent to the server in a cookie (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077775.msg11529538#msg11529538), and being stored in clear text on each users hard drive - Which I found after I had been told dozens of times that "this can never happen".

You, Fluffy, or the 28 other Monero contributors apparently didn't spot that one.  And I notice no official announcement to my findings was given, meaning anyone using MyMonero since it launched is potentially compromised - or can you link me to the official followup of my findings of that gaping security hole?

Secondly, it's really up to you to explain what your 9 commits were doing.  I am positing that they are doing - nothing of any significance whatsoever - unless adding a few comments and 2 IF statements in one year, warrants you the title of [Coin X,Y,Z Core Dev], to the extent that that cache then enables you to start spinning off peripheral projects such as AEON, being able to raise 2.5% of the supply in donations, and then continuing to "develop" that coin in addition to being a "Monero core dev", 2 competing positions in complete conflict of interest, which is my whole point.

Let's see. The last time you repetitively trolled using the same fallacious attacks, I told you this (after telling you that you were missing some of the commits, but not a huge number of them, which you are still doing, quite possibly deliberately because, hey, they smaller number you can come up with, even if knowingly incorrect, the better for trolling)


And fluffypony told you this:


So how about you stop acting like you don't know things that have already been explained to you?

And finally, I explained the same just a few days ago on the Dash thread, which I'm sure you saw because my comments there are what set off this latest attack of your chronic compulsive trolling disorder.


And then later again, in case you missed it, also noting some of the accomplishments of the project:

OK, I did forget about the 5,250 messages on an IRC chat you did, whilst trying to ascertain the extent of your contributions to Monero in your development role.

So what is the situation - is it correct to say that you are currently a Monero Core-Dev, or not?  On most coins, it's quite easy to find out who is "on the core team", from everything from Bitcoin to Moon coin - is this not the case for Monero?

Who knows. Hard to generalize from a single example. I was frankly surprised at the level of support. For a long time the donations were <100K and then someone or a few people decided to really take a shot a funding the project. We'll see what happens.

Yes, I am one of the members of the core team (the role of which is clearly described above), and it is easy to find this online in the obvious place. We don't have a position of "core dev" that exists.

We do have some designated "development contributors" I believe, who are mostly community members (or earlier in the project in a small number of cases, paid contractors) who do specifically coding work.

OK yes and I just saw you stated this clearly already on the Dash thread yesterday:


Thanks for clarifying.

I can support smooth's statement here as I've donated 200K+ AEONs to the dev fund and..get this...it was entirely voluntary on my part. I was not desperate as TPTB has suggested because I hold XMR as the majority or my coins.  In fact, I traded most of my mined AEONs to XMR. Why donate 200K? Because the difficulty was incredibly low from Oct of last year til recently and I've amassed quite a bit of coins since then as there were very few miners.  I personally felt development needs to be funded and asking for donation is quite an honorable and respectable thing, a rare thing these days as most coin devs would just rely on premines and ICOs.   

Thanks for the information exciter0.

I agree devs need to be funded, I said before they should have enough share to be incentivized if they are to be expected to work full time for a few years and deliver what they promise - who wouldn't.

The potential issue I see though is with the fact that Smooth has a stake in both XMR and AEON as I have already highlighted as it represents a conflict of interest and various sketchy scenarios can come up if AEON increases in value, with Smooth positioned on the core team of both coins, and that I don't think the AEON / XMR investors are fully aware of this situation.

FTFY

Thanks Smooth, but rather than changing my text to remove the words you don't like and replace them ones that sound better from your perspective, you can check my actual reasons for making this thread and investigating you in the OP, and people can make their own minds up:


So far, the majority of people agree that you are unethical / unprofessional / in conflict-of-interest when you are spamming your competitors threads with the same repeated "scam" accusatios, 100s of times, over months, with your position on the Monero and AEON core teams.  

https://i.imgur.com/cxjEZs7.png

I have documented the scale of your full time attacks over months, and anyone can do their own research on your post history:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813;sa=showPosts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813;sa=showPosts)

So if you are trying to say now that you are the victim after this one single thread created to ask questions after you spammed 50 posts accusing 3 of your competitors of being scammed yesterday, you're entitled to that opinion but clearly the wider BCT community doesn't think so.

ping me when you get that coded up and working.

Fortunately, forum polls sock-puppet ballot stuffing troll threads don't actually count for anything at all.

I'm free to post whatever I what wherever I want, as long as it is on topic and do not violate forum rules, and if you don't like it you can certainly make polls rage-troll, but other than that, too bad.


If you think I'm spamming, report it to forum mods. Otherwise your polls trolling is just a bunch of hot air.

Spamming is not correctly defined by the number of posts, assuming the posts are on topic, and contain relevant content. It doesn't matter if you think I have a conflict of interest or any other subjective pretense for your poll rage-trolling.

And, no, I won't be intimidated or threatened from calling out Dash's scamming or bullshit, nor that of any other coin, project or individual. You are wasting your time with this obviously retaliatory effort. In fact your efforts to silence me will just redouble my resolve to not be silenced by you or your favorite instamined scamcoin, Dash. Enjoy.

On the other hand, if we are going to give credit the accuracy of forum polls, we should remember that Dash developer EVAN DUFFIELD knowingly engaged in premeditated fraud and profited immensely from it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1034864.0)

https://i.imgur.com/Cp3Btad.png

If that's true, then why aren't you trolling the monero thread constantly pointing out the fact that it was launched as a scam because of its intentionally de-optimized miner? Don't you owe that to the users and investors of XMR? I think daily reminders at a minimum should suffice. Get on it!

I don't know, does "every 24 hours" = "every day"?

Because it was not intentionally (or otherwise) de-optimized by the then-or current-developers of Monero, who were the ones who in fact optimized it and released the fixes as open source, to the great inconvenience and frustration of those trying to stay ahead with optimized private miners. This is well-documented; there is no dispute over it.

That is between generalizethis and blockafett/blobafett2 to work out, who collaborated to draft that statement. Perhaps a different frequency would be considered more fair, in balancing the interests of disclosure. I don't know.

some things are just too good to be true, for example smooth managing to stay away from the Dash forum :

August 12, 2015 Time 09:57 PM : smooth last post in Dash forum
August 14, 2015 Time 02:46 AM : smooth trolling in the Dash forum has restarted
August 14, 2015 Time 02:51 AM : and is picking up steam..

Be my guest, make more of a clown of yourself.  You're spamming the Dash thread and others 28 times in one day, because your desperate to stay relevant.  You spam various threads with the same thought-terminating clichés like "Dash is an instamine scam", 100s of times, and you're doing it because, as we already covered many times in this thread, you would rather people invest in your scheme than in whichever coin you are attacking.  

You posted on your theme of how Dash was "going nowhere" 28 times yesterday on the main thread, yet your own thread (the 'main' one as far as we know) only 2 people posted in the whole day, like you were told on the Dash thread:


This has already been covered in this thread many times Smooth, why are you repeating the same things that I have already responded too?

I think you should chill out a bit too, coins you attack like Dash are huge communities with many people working on lots of different sites and volume spread across lots of exchange markets, BCT is just an offshoot because the serious stuff is on Dashtalk, and it's a bit delusional to see you think that the markets actually pay any attention to your FUD, didn't you realize that yet after months of your trolling?  

And the emission issue you have raised 1000s of times in the last 5 months, was 18 months ago, and covered lots of times already even officially (https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/) (as you've been told dozens of times) and the coin / market moved forward, no disrespect but you are from a small coin with hardly any users apart from some big enthusiasts on your speculation thread and practically nothing happening on your thread or the official Monero forums, development is so slow you even had to hire a developer recently for 260 hrs wok after your community complained....You are developing Aeon but that is even smaller than Monero community.

I think you are really living in a fantasy reality where your coin is about to take over bitcoin as you run around like some nutjob shouting the same rubbish over and over again, it's like you think the whole market is hanging off each word - but actually everyone in the market has just ignored you, and you just make yourself and your own coins look stupid.

Don't be mislead by my absence. I was still monitoring it for false or misleading statements, and I didn't happen to notice any obvious ones, so I didn't reply.
 

So you are admitting that monero was released with a scam miner that had been intentionally de-optimized, but you are claiming that you had no knowledge of the scam code you continued to push on your users? Are we supposed to just take your word on this?

Make it every hour on the hour.  Certainly you can manage to write a script.

"Admitting" that it was likely deliberately de-optimzed by the Bytecoin/CN scammers from which Monero was forked? We're the ones who originally discovered and reported exactly that!

I believe it was eizh, or tacotime, I don't remember which.

That is up to generalizethis and blobafett2 to work out. It is their text.

So monero had a scam launch, but yet I don't see you trolling the monero thread regularly to remind everyone of this fact. Why do you care more about the users of other coins than the users of coins you dev? Shouldn't they get 24h reminders about the XMR scam?

The post at 02:46:26 AM appears to be written by somebody named "smooth"

This is basicly how most people are forced to view the Dash ANN thread these days :

https://i.imgur.com/69optLE.jpg

Sometimes whole pages are littered there with posts like that, clear signs of trolls trying to disrupt a forum's focus.  

You are entitled to your opinion about what constitutes a scam launch and I'm entitled to mine.

Regardless of the apparently de-optimized (and certainly unoptimized) miner which likely did give some amount of unfair profit to upstream developers (though that is unproven), and some significant profit (fair or unfair is a matter of debate) to clever independent miners (which is documented), Monero distributed very nearly the published/scheduled number of coins in the first day, week, month, and year, and its distribution schedule has never been changed. Dash mined roughly 40%+ of its entire current supply in mere hours after launch, a number aided by the distribution schedule having been cut after launch to give a greater advantage to those who instamined it. That is a huge difference in kind, in the nature of the involvement of the current developers, and in its effect on ongoing distribution.

But like I said, you are entitled to your opinion.

I will accept their collaboration on modifications to the disclaimer notice.

But am I (and others) entitled to state it, regularly, constantly, or even every 24h on the XMR ANN bitcointalk thread? Or would that be trolling?

WOW...

i learn alot of thing,  Thank you for clarification

If you think it is relevant and on-topic then you are entitled to comment on it. I don't know that there is a specific blanket rule about such things that can be stated absolutely.

Anyway, since you bring that up, and relevant to this thread. I don't know if you saw that relevant inforomation that I did not post at all on the Dash thread between sometime in May and sometime in July (going from memory here), and then again for a good part of July. So the earlier claim that I am "spamming" the dash thread with posts "every day" and "for months" is factually incorrect.

Sure, if I am engaged in a conversation on the Dash thread and there are reply back and forth, there may be a good number of posts in a short time, but that is likely true of many pro-Dash posters as well. Do you think we could find a time when any of the prominent Dash supporters had posted, for example, 20 times in one day on that thread?

FYI, in case you are not aware the tacotime and eizh I mentioned above were and are Monero core team members, as was and is NoodleDoodle who did most of the early work to fix the miner.

Nice pic!

He probably wasn't aware of the monero scam launch because it wasn't posted every 24h on the monero ANN thread.

Blocka hasn't said word one, so every day seems to work for him.

http://da-data.blogspot.nl/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Misquoted.

I'll just x-post my reply to Smooth from the Dash thread for visibility:

Okay I appreciate this. I hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

So now I am going to say to you that if you want to stop messing around with Cryptonote which I will soon obliterate, and if you would like to get wealthy while also helping to change the world, then you do have an opportunity to invest in what I am doing much earlier than the ICO (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1049048.msg12127776#msg12127776) at a significant advantage.

It is fine and dandy to say that what you did was an act of unselfishness, but I would like to you explain to me how my 2.5 years of studying and working in these forums to acquire the vast knowledge which is on display in my posts yesterday all over the altcoin subforum (for which I've been paid roughly BTC20 by smooth, rpietila, and jl777) and the fact that I need some funds in order to complete development of my shocking innovations (which I am growing increasingly confident will turn the entire cryptocurrency world upside down ... mark my word) should come only from donations for a coin that doesn't yet exist?

Some people act like the term "private placement" was never invented or has no place in the world of investing.

A prominent Dash supporter admits I'm right, and by the way documents blobafett2's efforts to suppress/silence me (quoted unedited)

Yep. Monero was a total scam launch. To smooth's credit though, once people started catching on they did release a less de-optimized public miner. But only after enough time had passed that smooth and friends could have easily minted a small fortune off of the backs of their users.

With respect TPTB, I don't really think promoting your project on this thread is on topic. Post on your own threads or an ANN pre-ICO or the Securities subforum for venture investors or whatever.

This is not meant to criticize your effort in any way, but posting suggestions for people to invest in your coin whenever they discuss investing in other coins you claim are "obsolete" is a bit of spamming.

In fact that is literally impossible because above blog post documents exactly who was doing the bulk of the mining (spending $250K on AWS, presumably at a profit) and it wasn't us. In fact I think he says in there that he had no connection, financial or otherwise, with the Monero team. It is one of the few cases where who exactly was doing most of the mining is out in the open, mostly a serendipitous occurrence since he happens to be a CS professor who likes to blog about his exploits. Most miners wouldn't.

thats hard to know, they all anon u know.

"posting suggestions for people to invest in your coin whenever they discuss investing in other coins you claim are "obsolete" is a bit of spamming."

A bit like how you post on all your competitors threads telling people not to invest, with the implied investment advice being to invest in your competing coin instead.  Honestly Smooth, I think you are losing all perspective...

Sure you ware welcome to labor under the delusion that tacotime, NoodleDoodle, eizh, or myself (or othe) are affiliated with the Cryptonote/Bytecoin team because we are anonymous. I assure you that will be laughed off the forum by anyone who is familiar with the history.

He claims to at times to have his 60% of total network hashrate, and from what I can tell this was pretty far after the launch. Either way, someone figured out your trick and had to use a significant amount of AWS just to keep up with you. How many instances were you and your friends using? Were you using the scam miner you pushed to the public in your ANN thread? Are we just supposed to believe you?

No, that is not alike at all. The many differences are obvious.

But accurate none the less.

First of all the creator of the thread asked me to post a link to mine (when I was debating with him about masternodes on page 6).

I ignored his request.

But then I got interested in what you are doing with AEON. Then I noticed your receipt of a 400K coins donation to be the sole and lead dev for AEON might be a counter-example to my claim that asking for donations [hasn't proven economical afaics, e.g. Monero which lacks funding for development as you noted] instead of honestly selling an ICO that can be mathematically proven to not be a scam in favor of the devs because of the large donations you received to be a lead dev for CN coin given you are already prominently connected with another CN coin.

So I asked and received a response from the person who made half of that donation to you.

What I am saying is that the cost of expertise is not free. Just as you posted the following cartoon upthread:


And that mining a CN clone with nearly no hashrate because nobody is interested and then donating to acquire a new lead dev (yourself) who is coming from the leading coin of that CN technology (Monero), who can then of course use his clout to bring interest to coin that nobody was interested in before (among a sea of CN clones) is just another form of instamining and a political way of obfuscating nepotism. That may not have been your motivation. I dunno. But yet people could see it that way.

If you want real innovation, then you need to compete and invest. I don't work in Communism. And I am also not hiding behind yet another obfuscation of instamining. As far as I can see, what I am proposing to do is transparent, and thus no one is being lied to. They can invest or not invest. Their free will choice.

I think that perspective is relevant in this thread.

That you are doing experimentation in AEON is fine. And even awarding yourself 400k coins from the instamine (low hashrate) is fine. Just please don't be dogmatic against others who are trying to find a way to get some innovation funded and to market.

I say that with respect for all the help you've given me and all the discussions we've had. And seems you've always been logical and fair at least all my dealings with you. You've even gone out of your way to be more fair with me (e.g. the BTC2.5 during the BCX incident).

The case for DarkCoin/Dash being excessively instamined seems to be quite strong as far as I know. The case that Monero was excessively instamined seems to be weaker but still plausible.

I think you have a right to point out those things but you can see that if you harp on it too much, there will be justifiable backlash. Nobody wants to be a slave to another person's dogma.

I guess what bothers me is the righteousness holier than thou. We can look at the 400K of AEON (even if tied up with community obligations) as a form of an instamine. We don't know of any potential back door conversations with the donator. We don't even know who you are.

That doesn't mean I am accusing you. I am just saying we don't know. And so I think while you do a service to point of egregious instamines and sloppy technology, you also need to allow that nothing is perfect. And some people might be sincere in the way they are trying to do it.

I tend to agree now in hindsight that Evan is probably an opportunistic and appears he was lying. I haven't studied deeply but I've seen enough to assume that was probably the case.

And I agree that CoinJoin and masternodes have probably added zilch in terms of advancing cryptocurrency. Instead they probably retarded the necessary developments in anonymity. Luckily some others of us were not standing still while most people were wasting their money and time on that crap. But you won't see me over in the Dash thread slamming that large community. I will try to entice them over with sweet words and the opportunity to become wealthy.

And soon you will see the fruits...

This thread is kinda hilarious. Some of you Dash subordinates are really quite inept.

I mean it's said that Dash types aren't exactly renowned for their intelligence but this thread really does punctuate a stereotype.

Here's the thing dickheads:-

While Dash has many faults, ultimately it still has a bigger marketcap!

And yet you're still burning untold energies into sucking the cocks of your next downward rival?

What the hell? How does that even work?

I mean seriously, Dash is effectively XMR's next upward competitor. Whenever little bitch fights break out like this it only serves to benefit Monero - demonstrably in fact. DASH vs XMR is a branded-dialectic that is inevitably advantageous to Monero simply because it has a lesser market cap. Where do you think you're even going with it?

TIP: Stop whining like retard bitches and do something about your incompetently short-sighted strategies, and if you absolutely must troll someone then at least have the fucking self-respect to troll your next upward competitor. Don't fucking troll your next downward competitor - That's just humiliating.

I was not mining on AWS. I mined some on my own hardware, using the code from github. I never got any optimized miners from NoodleDoodle or anyone else (in part because his test versions only ran on Windows, which I don't use at all, so I couldn't help him test). As for the 40%, there were many, many people publicly posting about mining at that time, and in addition publicly selling off some or all of their mined coins. I recall vaguely the names of some of the bigger public miners, but I would have to look back on the threads and find them. They were not core team members.

So a large portion of the hash rate is very transparently accounted for. Furthermore the fact that mining with the standard mining code was still profitable (even on AWS I recall) essentially guarantees that optimized miners were not in very widespread use, because of how difficulty adjustment works and mining economics.

Um...this is a thread investigating Smooth for his attacks on various competitors and insider-dealings between AEON/XMR?  Did you click the wrong thread?

Seems AnonyMint goes wherever smooth goes and AnonyMint ends up talking about his sure thing coin which will replace Bitcoin because of anon transfers. So far in my dealings with smooth he's pretty knowledgable and straight up you never know how people really are but from far he seems pretty ethical.. You can tell he has connection to xmr but he never really bashes other projects from what I read anyways my 2 cents.

Still seems kind of off topic to "Developer Smooth Investigation" don't you think. If I'm going to have my own hate thread, I want to keep it focused on me! Ego, ya know?


I'm not suggesting you don't make money or raise money or whatever, as you know.


Sorry but I have to disagree with you there. Instamine is defined as coins mined faster than the published schedule, especially at the very beginning when only a privileged few (generally highly-biased toward insiders, which is what makes it a highly deceptive practice) are staged at the starting line and ready to grab the "instant-mining" right at launch. This is made even worse when the launch (and therefore highly-accelerate "instant-mining") happens before the promised (to outsiders) launch time. That did not happen to any significant degree on Monero. It 100% did happen with Dash.

Instamine most especially does not mean that some clever (programming/hardware design,etc.) or fortunate (location with low electricity costs, etc.) miners have a cost advantage over others, which literally happens with virtually 100% of mining, if not 100%. It doesn't even mean a de-optimized miner scam, which arguably did likely happen with Monero (assuming the Bytecoiners mined it which seems logical and likely, but is unproven).

As for AEON's easy mining (which still exists by the way right now, so anyone can mine even today at a good clip, which again argues against it being an instamine), again everything was public, nothing violated the schedule/planned/published schedule, there was nothing fast (favoring insiders) about a process the proceeds slowly over weeks or months or years giving everyone an opportunity to participate, and it was open to everyone. And the people who donated, including the guy who posted here, were entirely voluntary in doing so. They could have kept the coins and attempted to make money in some other manner.

But again, I have no problem with you raising money for your project however you would like, as long as you are transparent and non-deceptive about it (which I have no reason to believe otherwise).

For the sake of accuracy, FYI yesterday Smooth attacked 3 competitors with 50 posts:

Example Day of forum attacks by Smooth (today, 12th Aug 2015)

Attacking his competitors:

Dash thread: 28 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12125302#msg12125302) (competing with the anon feature)
Vanilla threads: 20 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148745.msg12120960#msg12120960) (competing for Poloniex volume)
Bytecoin thread: 4 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512747.msg12120288#msg12120288) (competing "Anon coin")

Posting on his own threads:

AEON: 3 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg12119430#msg12119430)
Monero: 0 posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg12124988#msg12124988)

Smooth's competitors attacking his coins on any threads:

Dash devs: 0 posts
Vanilla devs: 0 posts
Bytecoin devs: 0 posts

Today it's a lot more (but I haven't collated the info yet).  But for example, he is starting a new campaign where he will "warn" investors on the main Dash thread with this message every 24 hours (which apparently I drafted with another user, even though I never read it)

I most certainly do "bash" other projects when I feel they are fraudulent, deceptive, unethical, technically unsound, or otherwise worthy of my criticism. That's exactly why this thread exists -- because I criticize the heavily-instamined, launched-ahead-of-schedule, manipulated, and self-dealt (and technically unsound) Dash, which motivated butt-hurt blobafett2 to start attacking me and posting about my "conflict of interest" (while he still denies the irony of his own conflict of interest in doing so).

That's what you think Smooth, the majority of the users here think actually your time attacking your competitors instead of working on your own coins, is because you think it will benefit you financially:

https://i.imgur.com/DZLgJLw.png

And I already stated the reasons for making this thread, it's in the OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151565.0

smooth I agree that with mining for everyone who knows Linux command lines and that crap, then it is a transparent market. But I think that is not all that transparent, because many people don't know how to configure that stuff.

So in some respect, it is form of instamining (or what ever term you want to invent to describe a non-transparent launch).

My point is that there isn't a perfect launch ever. At least I am announcing mine wide so it is more transparent. I wasn't even aware of AEON until yesterday. I have no time to fiddle with mining it.

sidhujag, it is true that I have frequently insinuated about technology I am working on.

P.S. okay I will butt out and let you enjoy receiving all the backlash from those you assign the label "trolls". I am more on your side of this, but I think I would back off if I were you, but I am not you.

It's all good,

Smooth +1 there's always haters

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he saw through that pretense and figured out that this is actually a rage-troll hate thread against me in retaliation for posting about Dash's fraud and abuses on the Dash thread.

Don't read much, do you?

There were Windows binary miners at launch! In fact the launch was pushed back a day to make sure those were ready. NoodleDoodle's early optimizations that we released were in fact more effective on Windows because he developed on Windows and used Intel compiler for Windows to make the binaries, which had better compiler optimizations than the usual free Linux compilers. (Later optimizaions closed the gap, but indeed this means that the Linux command line "experts" actually were for a time at a disadvantage.)

Interestingly this is yet another of the criticisms of Dash. There were no Windows binaries at launch. And of course "at launch" for Dash means quite a lot given the huge amount of mining that happened within an hour or two.


As you say, there is never a perfect launch. But there was a great explicit effort made to do as good a launch as possible for Monero. That was the whole reason for forking it from Bytecoin after all! So most of the obvious abuses such as those discussed above did not happen with Monero.

But even I didn't have time to mess with that. I was aware of Bitmonero and then Monero. I was following CN since a long time before that. And that is why I know that the accusation that it wasn't published earlier is wrong. I had seen the white paper a long time before that and unfortunately ignored it because I wasn't knowledgeable enough yet. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly when someone had sent that to me (was is 2013 ???), so I never mentioned this until now.

My point remains that launch by mining is not a panacea. There are different ways to do different things.

I like diversity and free markets (even the right for people to harm themselves if they do insist).

Well I have to say that you choosing not to mine is not evidence of any launch problems whatsoever. Furthermore the lack of any concentration of mining output at the beginning means you could really have done this over any time period of a few months and still done pretty well (as noted earlier about mining profitability in those days).

In fact, if you were familiar with Cryptonote, you could have been mining Bytecoin, which was reasonably easy to do as well. There was no real time pressure to mess with that, you could have set it up at your leisure and been ready to mine (bit)Monero when it launched later. That's where most of the early Monero miners came from, I think. Certainly true in my case.


Certainly true, but I will say that other methods of launch and distribution are fraught with perils. While no launch or mining system is ever perfect, at least we have some idea how to do a decent (mining) launch now. The main improvement I would make now if launching a new coin is slow start (ramp up mining rewards from a very low base at launch to their normal level over over some period of months to perhaps 1-2 years).

A lot of your posts seem to be back to front Smooth - seems like it's you having the big rage right now, and as I already explained (like 5 times now as you are just repeating the same basic post) the motivation for making this thread is to investigate your prolific daily attacks on your competitors https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151565.0 and your conflict of interest in being a core dev for AEON / XMR at the same time.  And also the majority of users here think you *are* trolling for your own gain.  

I've already documented that the claim of daily anything is incorrect. I criticize fraudulent, unethical, technically-unsound, etc. projects when I see them and when it is relevant on the thread as particular false claims may appear (for example, when someone on the Dash thread claims that the community voted not to relaunch, which as far as I can tell is untrue, and is certainly undocumented).

However, as a result of this thread we have now agreed that posting a daily disclaimer on the Dash thread is a good safety measure. I'm not promising that I will always remember to do it personally. I apologize in advance for any new investors suckers who are harmed by me being too busy or forgetful, but I can't do it all myself.

I'll just say that for example mining is not that transparent, because you don't know who has figured out how to rent AWS, etc. Renting nearly always makes more sense than buying hardware. You don't know who has optimized code, even GPU optimized, etc.

As for Darkcoin, it did do one very important thing. It showed there is demand for anonymous coins. That is why I did not try to kill it when I had the chance to when the community was small. Because I am AnonyMint and I have been pushing for greater anonymity since 2013.

I have never agreed that, or agreed to the 'draft' as you claimed.

The whole point of this thread is to show how you are attacking coins daily (since I started he thread 2 days ago, you are over 50 posts attacking Dash on the Dash thread for example...), and you are doing this because you would like Monero to have a market cap like Dash and you think that's a smart way to go about it.  My opinion is that you are just shooting yourself (and XMR/Aeon) in the foot more and more with each hysterical post you are making, but it's up to you what you do :D

I don't need an invitation, nor do I care one whit if I get one or not. Threads on an open forum are not by invitation. If you want to control the message and limit criticism, go elsewhere.

That is exactly why coins having moderated ANN threads or all or most conversation on promoter-controlled platforms is such a red flag. To its credit at least Dash has not adopted the former bad practice.

to OP : i found smooth's connection to AEON particular interesting, makes one wonder how the two coins (XMR / AEON) will get played out
against each other in the future. Two competing altcoins under heavy influence of one single person can never go well...  

and with regards to smooth attacking other altcoin communities and trying to disrupt them, that is most definetely serving his own purpose

You do know that this is hurting you and your coins if you keep doing this? It's freedom of speech, but usually there's some self moderation to be considered.

I agree qwizzie, it's totally unethical with the various ways it can play out (and Smooth can play it out being core team of both coins) and he has 2.5% of AEON supply for free already so he certainly has an incentive to raise AEON value.

On Bittrex today, AEON is ahead of XMR again on volume:

BTC-AEON   Aeon   8.00669257   BTC
BTC-XMR   Monero   7.22644605 BTC

He's working a lot harder on AEON than he ever did for XMR too:

https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/commits?author=iamsmooth
https://github.com/iamsmooth/bitmonero/commits?author=iamsmooth

Theres a look at his XMR work a few pages back too, around 30 lines of code including comments for the whole year, mostly adding and removing preprocessor directives and inserting a couple of IF statements from what I can see.

I just counted a total of 29 posts from me on the Dash thread in the last four (not two) days. My count might be off by a few but not off by 21, and the actual two-day count is lower (I didn't count it). Stop rage-lying.

Prior to that there were no posts for a couple of days, then 2 posts there, one about an exchange with a London address using a mail forwarder and being located elsewhere and one about Poloniex implementing KYC, and then no posts for several days before that, and documented periods in the recent past with no posts whatsoever for several weeks.

You're off the rails.

Oh come on. Bittrex is the ONLY exchange for AEON, and a tiny exchange for XMR with 2.9% of its volume. Get real.

12th of August it was 28 posts, i've seen lots from you since then.  If you thought I was lying, you had ample opportunity since then to prove me wrong.

The posts are there. Anyone can count them, and they can look at the previous history as I stated. I haven't deleted any posts. The forum mods deleted a few, left the rest. The ones the forum mods deleted were mostly replies to off-topic and personal-attack posts by Dash community members which the mods also deleted. I can document this.

It is a free market. He can do that if he wants.

The only valid (but subjective) complaint is whether people feel he is harping too much on others' rights to do various forms of not entirely transparent leverage or even (in his opinion are) half-arsed technologies.

I do agree with smooth's implied point that there are gradations of transparency. And his dealings seem to be on the more transparent side than for example those who actually lie about the emission curve. But I also think others have a point about launch is never 100% transparent and harping on other communities is for example myopic of the fact that DarkCoin helped to build the demand for anonymity which is why Monero has the market cap it does.

All of us stand on the shoulders of other events, even those which were "scammy".

I just my entire life hated wasting time on non-productive shit like fighting over who threw sand first. Better to move on. Even with my ex and losing my eye to some thugs, I just moved on. Even the husband who murdered my sister and got away without jail time and even called my mother on her birthday to tell her he remarried, both my mom and I moved on (although my mother and motherly instinct has suffered severe depression and compulsive disorder due to this loss).

Life is a box of chocolates. Keep sampling the next one.

Now let's go have some fun creating new stuff. I at age 50 am still like a kid with an erector set.  ;D  :P

See ya...

P.S. my mother said I am the only kid she knew who dissassembled all his toys instead of playing with them. I said, "mom that is playing with them". Maybe here I find some of my peers who were not my neighbors.

No time too busy coding., you? What's ur excuse?

This is incorrect. Most fairly launched coins are not profitable to mine on AWS, at least beyond a very short initial low-difficulty period. AWS is generally several times more expensive than your own equipment, and there is no way mining economics can support that. It was an exception of Monero due to the newness of the technology and the high level of investor demand that it stayed profitable there for several months (even with public unoptimized miners).

Which was in part a function of Darkcoin popularizing anonymity, you are correct about that, but it was also in part a function of the fair and transparent launch, visible integrity of the team, etc. because that brought investors who had rejected Darkcoin, Bytecoin and others.


None of that matters if your own mining is profitable. Why does it matter if someone else makes more?


Agree. It did become popular and in turn popularize the idea that Bitcoin was not good enough. I think Bytecoin (on which development started before Darkcoin, but released after) or something else would likely have done that anyway, but you never know

I'm not going to argue with you after the fact Smooth, like I said you could have contested my data at the time but you didn't, and I know the number because it's not the kind of error I would leave when making these kind of allegations against you.  Now you claim it's wrong and 'you didn't delete any posts' - doesn't work like that :D  And not really up for having you try to divert the conversation - all the info is there.

The focus on here is your trolling, attacking your competitors to try to badmouth them in the hope your own small projects can gain in value (AEON / XMR).  And secondly we are investigating why you are bulding up a competitor to XMR in the form of AEON, when much of the community have no idea with (just like the private keys being sent from user's computers to MyMonero.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077775.msg11529538#msg11529538)) there is never an official announcement.

At this point, if you keep repeating posts and comments I have replied to many times already in this thread, I will just ignore them, and continue with the investigation / poll.

Didn't you just argue a while back that it's wrong to make more?

No, in fact I said that 100% of coins have someone making more because they are more clever (programming, hardware design,etc.) or because they live someplace with cheap electricity, etc. There is nothing wrong with that outcome in general, as long as the process is reasonable (not ninja-launched in the middle of the night ahead of the promised schedule, etc.)

So it's OK?, if you can make more when hiding it cleverly, then doing it in public? Which one is worse?

I did the math in 2014 when I was evaluating my PoW hash and VPS or hosted dedicated servers renting was definitely far advantageous to buying hardware for any scenario where the price was increasing fast and the emission curve was declining fast (which is nearly always the case for any coin worth mining).

One could aggregate more hashrate faster reinvesting mined coins from rented VPS than the slower return of capital from buying.

Math doesn't lie.

Individual miners, who are private actors, can do whatever they want, and there is nothing you can ever will be able about that even if you wanted to. A large part of the purpose of mining is to be permissionless, meaning by definition "anything goes". The only thing that might happen is the system could fail for various reasons.

People launching a coin, promoting a business, etc.are public, and are open to criticism if they set up things in a manner which is dishonest, unethical, or unsound.

You are assuming the equipment does not have residual value. I have also done the math for various reasons (not just coin-related). Cost per cycle is much lower off-cloud in general (of course there are exceptions, promotional discounts, etc.)

$200 for used hardware versus $millions for more coins obtained  ???

If you believe in a coin, you mine the hell out of it with rented hardware or even better rented bots.

Btw, launch by mining can never be transparent, because we don't know who purchased a 10,000 bot miner for $100. I don't have the skills to deploy a bot net. Do you?

10,000 bot miners don't matter if there are millions of people mining, and the experience with Monero shows over time that claims of botnets are overblown. My theory, unproven but consistent with observed data, is that mining on botnets is pretty expensive because bots have a cost and lifetime and mining burns them up too fast.

With slow start rewards, it doesn't matter much if someone throws bots on it early, they'l never accumulate a large portion of the supply anyway. Good for them, they'll probably become early advocates, and promote the coin in some markets you'd never reach otherwise.

Some people might have the perspective that Monero brought people who were savvy miners and saw an opportunity to hijack Cryptonote and mine it for themselves.

And then managed to have enough clout to hoodwink a lot of others into siding with the coin with the most clout.

Thus you can clearly see how politics enters the picture. I sure do hate politics. I wish I could be free from it.


Why are you worried if a few people own most of the coin then?

Of course it matters. The entire point is we want distribution to be widespread to maximize network effects, interest, and maximize the power of the free market when transparency and liquidity are maximized.

So you are saying that if people(individual miners) instamined a coin publicly when it was launched, before the diff got adjusted it is OK. It's OK for me because it's honest..

wow thats very gentlemen LOL, btw i didnt say that you were them  ;D :D

i just stating the truth, which they are all anon dev.

I think anon dev is unethical.  dozen of coin which were created by anon dev actually scam. and those serious coin like ethereum, storj, maid, dash, and even bitcoin are now managed by real dev, not anon dev.

EDIT : btw im still shocked that monero is actually a clone, wow...

If someone gets $1000 of coins for $100, while every normal JoeBlow gets $150 of coins for $100, the free market is not operating with transparency. It is an opaque market and thus not efficient.

Besides mining hands all the capital to electric and hardware companies. We enslave ourselves  ???  >:(  :'(

And giving preference to those who are savvy miners over every normal JoeBlow who might want to invest, thus not achieving maximum distribution.

And you wonder why Monero is stuck in mud.  ::)

Obviously I meant in the context where you can profitably mine, pretty much as much as you want, without anything special, like Monero in the first few months. You, AnonyMint/TPTB, personally, could have made money mining, maybe even a lot. You could perhaps have used that money to support something bigger and better, I don't know.

This was not a design goal, just a realistic observation about how things are.

Of course, I don't think it is a good idea to set up a system where people can get huge advantages, but there will always be some advantages, and if the distribution is gradual (not concentrated into a few hours) then that these things happen from time to time doesn't matter much.

It's not a clone, its a fork, and this was intended. There is 100k+ lines of code development since it forked, as discussed a few pages back. Stop trolling.

I'm saying that the individual miners are not to blame for playing the hand they are dealt, but if you set up a system that is dysfunctional or corrupt, then you are to blame for doing that.

Now TPTB thinks that mining as it exists today is dysfunctional, even without obvious abuses, and he's entitled to his belief, but it is entirely unproven. It will be more interesting if he can demonstrate something better, making mining as it exists today obsolete (and then we can look back and say it was, indeed, dysfunctional).

Outside of that we have to look at the range of mining that exists, some of which is much more corrupt and dysfunctional than others.

To play devil's advocate a little, that sort of launch would allow only botnets and industrial/professional miners to mine. Fast mining at the start at least gives those lucky small time hobbyists happening to refresh the ANN forum at the launch a chance to get lucky before the professionals take over.* The other method will make the rich richer, and other can potentially make a few poor ones rich as well. If you believe the former is the best option, then why not skip the distribution by mining completely and distribute directly to BTC holders according to their holdings?

* Although professionals are likely auto-refreshing the announcements or have paid others to refresh and have alerts and quick-scripts to start instamining for the last couple of years.

So you do admit then that opaqueness is a cost.

It would actually been more efficient for me to just buy XMR on a liquid exchange, so that is why I think decentralized exchanges are so important, because I can not qualify for KYC.

And besides I don't want to hassle of signing up an account and researching if the exchange is reliable, etc..

I'd prefer to just be able to exchange directly from the wallet.

I better not have to download any damn client to run a wallet.

I didn't invest in XMR because I don't believe in it. I still see all cryptoland as stuck in the Stone Age. Basic things that should be easy as point and click are not.

Yeah right?
And we should just take your word for it?
Isn't this just the thing you are against for?

almost reminds me of this...
I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. - Bill Clinton.

No, that's why it matters that it is well documented.

Yeah I've got one of those (a dick).

smooth, I think Monero people have tried to claim that mining for all made their coin the fairest launch. Yet we see even the emission curve declined egregiously faster than Bitcoin (and I pointed that out last year).

We know the miner wasn't optimized on launch.

Isn't it time we come off the high horse?

Bottom line is we need to distribute the coin as transparently and widely as possible. That is my goal. No method can be perfect. But at least I don't want to worry about the accusations about mining optimization which are not proven for Monero. We have no way of knowing who had what optimization and when.

And at least with my proposal, everyone will be able to calculate the math that I documented.



Correction: upthead I made a mistake in that electric and hardware companies don't get the wealth effect as the coin appreciates in value. The point was the cost of the hardware and electricity is wasted capital.

Edit: one of important factors in distribution is giving a wide range of people the reason to obtain your coin. So to those who say a use case doesn't matter, I think they are delirious.

I said mining was profitable, I didn't say that buying on an exchange has been profitable.

I don't think it would have been more efficient buy XMR unless you were a trader, because investing in it hasn't produced much in the way of profit (depending on buy timing you might be up a little, down little, close to, even, or less likely, if you were a retard, down a lot), so that is pointless i.e. inefficient.

fwiw; I really enjoy your ongoing discussions guys. not that I would understand most/everything of it, but it's been some nice food for thought over the last two days.

It's actually incomparable to Bitcoin. Faster initially, then slower.

I don't think we know the "right" speed or even if mining is he way to go. Super-fast is obviously bad because, among other reasons, it makes the network horribly insecure later (the whole, programmed self destruction). (Of course I know you know this, stating it for the readers including illodin).


I don't think I've claimed it was the fairest launch (maybe it was Risto who said that, but we of course know that he is not an expert on these things "in the trenches", he has the 10km high perspective), but it was free from the most egregious abuses that have plagued many launches, including things like not having Windows miners available and much worse. I think I may have said it was "close to" the fairest launch and I do believe that, among the major coins. I mean you could argue that AEON had a fairer launch because the miner was optimized by then, but who cares, AEON is approximately worth zero.

As for your proposal, I have replied privately with my thoughts.

To speak more generally, I don't think we know if ICOs are really a great model. Maybe it is. Most of them have done poorly, with the exception of ETH so far, but that is early (the wallet is so primitive and hard to use that many people who want to sell literally can't access their coins -- talk about a messed up launch). Obviously many have been blatant scams too (some claim this about ETH, although I don't really see it personally). That poisons the well a bit, and some ICOs (including perhaps some non-scam ones) have subsequently really flopped as a result (esp. if not high profile with a big marketing budget pre-ICO like ETH). Investors tend to throw out the good with the bad. Maybe yours can do better.

Thanks. When smooth and I get into one of our discussions, it is usually like that.

smooth, I stand back now. Thanks for the discussion. (yeah smooth afair rpietila was the main voice of that phrase)

Here's an interesting fact of Risto (https://twitter.com/ristopietila), from Helsingin Sanomat, finnish news paper, news video...
http://www.hs.fi/hstv/uutiset/v1401588977732
or
http://www.ruutu.fi/ohjelmat/hs-uutiset/risto-pietila-esittelee-bitcoin-kartanoaan-virossa
dont know if the links will work..

translated,
Malla's Mantion in North-estonia might be the largest purchase made by bitcoin, Risto Pietilä earned the money by profiteering bitcoins. He want's to attract more bitcoin users.

Nobody profited from anything?
Did you know this smooth?

Yes rpietila is a for-profit investor.

I think rpietila is against scams where a few people have most of the coins and/or the devs just run away without actually achieving goals.

His weakness IMO is he sometimes tries to top-down manage or direct. Then again he does sometimes have insights. I think he potentially has a strong point with his experimental Crypto Kingdom game that distributing the coin to the users drives network effects and thus the wealth effect.

Btw, I've known him since 2007 or 2008, and his networth was less than mine then. He was buying BTC hand and fist at $10. I believe he sold $100,000+ of silver to buy BTC. He bought smaller portions at lower prices.

Did I know what? That Risto bought Bitcoin at low prices, made a lot of money when it went up and then bought a castle? Sure, I've heard that and assumed it to be true. So what?

Just saying to keep an open mind and look that your own developed coins were free of cheating at the launch (developers didn't gain any advantage), before accusing other coins...............................

Risto bought the castle before Monero even existed? He also had nothing to do with the launch of it (he has minimal computer skills afaik)

2 days 13 pages!?!

It seems that this will be epic.

...is frank:

What a nice thread and very informative.


Smooth, you are experimenting with aeon (shitcoin atm) and have a 2.5% of available coin supply at the moment (instamined btw). You have right to do so.
What if it happens to go somewhere near $17mln market cap?

eduffield has been experimenting with his coin (shitcoin at that moment) 1.5 year ago. Little problems at the beginning (due to experimenting) but everything is priced in the market now. Due to his honesty, real name, constant development and delivering he (now it's a team) managed to get his coin (shitcoin 1.5 year ago) to $17mln market cap.

I guess everything what smooth does is good but when somebody else do it in better way it's not.
Obviously you are just a butthurt nothing else. Envious butthurt.
I would back you up if you would be able to do something usefull.
Reading your and your gang's post is like try-not-to-laugh challenges to me.

ROFL, that's quite a strained analogy you have their.

The information about the Dash instamine including the false, misleading and deceptive statements by the developer, which are carefully documented and recorded, are here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

I do not believe I have made any false, misleading or deceptive statements about AEON, ever. Certainly not in connection with its launch or coin supply (but in no other context either, to my knowledge). For that matter I don't think the previous developer did either.

Get it?

Don't forget that smooth (or more accurately the development fund) got the 2.5% (or whatever the number is) when people donated it, it wasn't an instamine.

Small difficulty is instamining.
Get it?

And that (the instamining) happens with every coin. And it was donated.

Yes it was donated because it was (nearly) freely given away to the person who donated it. No distinction.

Well sort of any way... I don't want to pick on smooth. Perfectly okay for me if he has 2.5% of AEON.

Ok.
I get 4 BTC in 15 minutes of mining a shitcoin (whitecoin lol). There was false, misleading and deceptive statements by the developer of this coin.
Where were you the saviour? Or why are you not ther atm?
Oh, it's not in competition with your coins and doesn't have any attention, obvious butthurt.
Attention.
Get it?

It's ok with me as well. He can even have 100% of it. I will not troll him nor his coins for that.
If he is able to take it to $17mln market cap...good for him and for otters who recognised that early.

No, I don't agree.

Coin difficulties go up and down over time, as with any market. It isn't instamining to be mining when other people think it is a bad idea. That's being contrarian, a sometimes-good but often-foolish investment strategy.

With time and slow distribution comes the opportunity to be contemplative, to make mistakes and correct them without large effect. It is possible for non-privileged participants to study the situation and make a reasoned, informed decision whether to participate. There are also opportunities to point out errors, implement fixes, and so forth. It is hard for any material misleading statements to be made, because there is time to check facts and scrutinize.

None of that exists with a true instamine.

Instamining is when you can mine an enormous amount during a very short period of time, and since the short time factor is so critical, there is a an exceptionally large vulnerability to other fraud or manipulation. This includes starting the mining early, having bugs in the code, or not providing Windows binaries, all of which are among the issues which we know occurred with Dash. Otherwise-small errors or ethical lapses become highly amplified in effect when 40% of the 18-months-in supply is mined in just hours (a large portion of that in just one hour).

None of that happened with AEON. Anyone who wanted to take the risk of spending his time, effort, and/or mining on mining it had months to do so (but at the same time had to maintain computers, keep them going, etc. for months), and in doing so were taking risks that it would all be a waste. Others had time to get in, and no one could be excluded by giving deceptive or misleading information about a start time or not providing software that can work on their computer. In fact no one is excluded even now and the opportunity to mine in meaningful amounts is still open to anyone.

If you want to be ethical and professional you wouldn't promote buying a windoze. Linux is free for everybody.
At that time many people were jumping from one coin to another. Many hundreds of people were watching closely every launch of a new coin. Many eyes were focused on Dash (xcoin, darkcoin at that time) thus many miners were ready.
I think only you were misled and deceived. What makes you an envious butthurt

Dude, I never use Windows, ever. You don't need to sell me on this. But it is excluding people to provide binaries for it, especially on the accelerated timescale of an instamine, where every little difference, even dumb ones like whether you support spoon-feed precompiled miners for a dumbed-down OS to dumbed-down people, become enormously important.


I really couldn't care less about missing mining Dash. I've done fine with mining other coins, and crypto is all a hobby to me anyway.

You misunderstood


You should tell it to your miners-supporters.


Maybe that is why eduffield didn't promote ''windoze''


FTFY.
And of course i tried really hard not to laugh  ;)

Of course, what you refer to derisively as "trolling" because it happens to threaten your bag, I refer to as calling out bullshit, scams, fraud, and rip-offs. Aside from the characterization, that is indeed a hobby of mine.

No. You feel, that you are threatened by ''my bag'' ::) and that you have to do something about it.
I don't worry about all of this ape-shit trolling of yours.
You didn't call it a bullshit before, when it didn't have any attention nor market cap (which in cryptoland is quite decent).
Cutting your self-called competitor's heads to feel taller is what your hobby is.

ROFL. No.


I can't even read that. Sorry.

Maybe because english is not my native language or you don't like to hear the truth about your motives.
If the former I am sorry.

He's saying that he doesn't worry about your trolling [about instamines] because you never trolled about it until it had attention and market cap.  You're hobby is just to 'cut of the heads of your competitors to feel smaller' i.e. try to reduce their market cap to raise your own.

You're post was entirely comprehensible to anyone with a good understanding of English.  I think English is not Smooth's first language either but he doesn't like to admit it. ;)

Well okay. The reality is that I never paid any real attention at all to Dash until it did the whole rename/takeover thing with dashcoin. That is a fact. I was aware of its existence, aware that it used a masternode concept that I don't like at a technical level, but that's all. Only after drk->dash/dashcoin did I even start looking into it and find out about the instamine, etc. It had zero to do with marketcap. I don't even know what its market cap was then compared to now (or before).

From researching it, you only 'pay real attention' when their value goes up or your value goes down.  Why else?

Case in point on Dash, the rebrand caused a big price surge, you and the 'gang' then headed straight for the Dash threads.

I explained to you how, when, and why I became interested. You can ignore what I said and make up your own reasons if you like. I can't help you.

Of course  ::)
How one can try not to laugh reading this.
You even trolled (I think I can use this word taking into account your hobby) a guy, few pages ago, because he mentioned his project. It was TPTB I believe.
You look through $$ glasses all the time...dude.


And mostly you are ignored.
At the end, you will end up somewhere in the corner with your toys unless you make something usefull...if you are capable of

Yes and excuse me if I don't take you on your (constantly changing) word Smooth, when we have 1000s of posts of you attacking that goes up and down in waves in direct correlation to the market cap / volume of your largest competitors (or in many cases just with a big XMR price change).

Honestly, I never seen such a toxic community as XMR's. Even though I'm not invested into DASH and have my opinion on the way things were handled I constantly read the BCT discussion and see them trolling there. Same goes for the VNL topic, out of the few trolls we had so far, atleast 80% were from the XMR topic.