This is crap. THEIR official pool is running, but none others because they aren't publishing the SOURCE


(just checked all the pools)

Github is empty..

10 minutes later, github still empty.

You guys hate pools that much?

Where's the github publish

Github still empty

What's this Snoop video thing?

1) As ahmed posted several already, I would add Potcoin and Digibyte to the list. I don't have my list with me at work, but I have noted that with pot and the ones ahmed posted, occasionally there would be a block (or 2) confirmed long ago, suddenly go orphan. The one thing I noticed between all of these coins is that these orphans all occured around the same timeframe as eachother, despite being separate coins on separate networks. 5 or 6 coins all having that happen at once..that begins to exceed coincidence in my eyes, but I haven't gathered enough data to prove it as anything more than a striking lottery's chance of coincidence. It seems like the coins not based on litecoin are having the issue more than others.

2) If I had time to fully digest and test the code, I would do so. I broke it almost all the way out to the basic math, but never got a chance to complete it. It would almost be easier for me to simply change the timestamp on one of my private pools and see if I could force the issue myself. And if I do find an exploit of that level, what then?

Like some other pools have done in the recent past, it may be worthwhile to simply push 500mh or a gigahash or more at the inverted timeframe, and suck the profits from the rest of the network. Unless you're confident the code doesn't have an issue with the negative retarget.

Of course, we all hope for that I'm sure.

3) Also I remember you stating that with POS a network hash monitor wouldn't be viable; since you've discussed removing POS, would you add one then?

4) There were many updates, more frequent, prior to your business trip regarding the current status of the TAG project as a whole and where it was going, but so little since then. What's the situation?

5) For network confirmations, what's the suggested number, and why?

Question is how long have you been lurking? By your responses, not long.


You mean their dodging of questions from even their most respected customers, and their customer relations department effectively shutting down, doesn't add to your surprise?


You're kidding right? 3 Chinese OEM's shipped daily since December 1st, along with another company. Their NPS stated they would offer more equipment to be shipped same month if competitors were shipping hashpower. How can they offer same month? They already had more than enough 28nm on hand in preparation for this, and for their datacenter (which they'd been planning). This ties in below. Not sure where you get that competition didn't ship more, the hashrate went up throughout the NPS time window, as did the difficulty. Jupiters were supposed to be valuable well past spring if competition wasn't shipping. They're no longer valuable now.


Huh? They show their own datacenter in several press reports and video releases. It's significant. They even admitted to mining the entire time, but they won't say how much power they're using. It's likely to say they were using far more than they want to admit.


It's like you know nothing about the company or anything in their newsletter, or in their terms of service. For every single product they've offered for sale, one of the primary selling points/features (since June 2013) was modular upgradability, and that modules would in fact be produced side-by-side and available. They included this bullet point in batches 1 & 2 of Neptune as well, but redacted it for batch 3. This has been discussed many times over, and has even the most hardcore KNC supporters upset, because when questioned in email, Sam and the other KNC guys said--without a doubt--they would always be selling the modules for the products which could be upgraded.



They said they plan on getting it up and running as soon as possible, and said they could have it up and running within a month or so. They'll likely have it going long before June.


Monarch isn't late, original ship timeframe was March-April. Where do you get any of your information?



They said they hadn't been making more 28nm for sell orders. It's important to note the wording. They've kept their foundry very busy over the last few months.


Judging by your lackluster understanding of the facts at hand, and how the difficulty increase steps haven't really slowed down which shows generous network growth, I'd say you have indeed missed a lot. Go back and read starting around Nov 1st, and you'll actually understand the situation and why so many long-term supporters have jumped ship. It isn't just noise, what you're seeing is the clamour of folks waking up and smelling the burnt toast.

Seems like once a week someone "new" is coming in the forum who claims they've kept up with things, and doesn't understand why people are hating so much.. and then within a short period of time the light bulb comes on for them too.

It's basically finding an equillibrium between efficiency and stability, reducing the voltage the card needs to lower heat and sometimes increase or decreash hash in a stable fashion. You typically do it in slight increments per card to see what works best.


I don't undervolt but I understand it. Every card is different just because of component variance, even if you buy 10 of the same model/brand. Generally speaking same-model cards should have the same default operating voltages, so if you have 2 cards which have different "stock" voltages, make sure they're actually the same model.

Yes, you can undervolt too much and cause an issue. You typically want to do it in increments. Lots of people go in steps of .05, sometimes .1

Yeah they're pretty close. If you didn't mind not being able to close the case, you could get some risers and move them up and away from each other and lower the temps naturally. I'm not familiar with how sgminer handles kernels, but here's a link of the official modified kernels, which includes announcement sublinks to the various forums for each which describes how to properly use them (as each one is for different driver versions): https://github.com/veox/sgminer/blob/master/doc/KERNEL.md

If this was a dedicated system solely for mining, I would personally suggest a linux-based approach for stability and higher output, but if this is your personal system I can understand wanting Windows.

I presume you're running windows. What version? Have you tried removing the kernel info from the commandline and then run sgminer?

FortuneSeeker, in trying to keep the TAG thread on topic, move over to here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324938.900

I'll post up some advice for you.

I've got 280X's running 720-810KH/s. Sapphire Toxic is the best of the 280X's for mining.

Definitely can agree with your stance and response.


NP, it's refreshing to see more thinkers in here. The hopeful side of me wants to be proven wrong on all accounts regarding KNC. We shall see!

I absolutely agree with you, which is why I said back in October how we were entering the last few months of it being reasonable for folks to mine at home.. as it was shifting toward centrally-hosted facilities due to power consumption, or to regions where power isn't an issue. The writing's been on the wall. No need to be facetious lol.

I love my KNC Mercury, I've had it since the first of Decembet, it's run non-stop, without so much as being powered down. Got it for half MSRP, so I loved it even more for that. If I can get any deals like that on equipment in the future, I'd love to get it.

There is in fact something such as madness of the crowds. Interesting you brought it up since Avenger, myself and a few others, were the minority amongst the noise of the mad crowds--until recently when, perhaps, the crowds began to have the veil pulled off of their face.

Mark, there are some attacks which have been carried out in recent weeks which do not rely on hashpower. They simply rely on bandwidth. You could hold 90% of the hashpower, but if you can't talk you're dead in the water.

I've also begun noticing an emerging pattern across several coin networks, with TAG being one of the hardest hit: Previously confirmed blocks going orphans. Not just hours later, not just thousands of confirms later, but we're talking days later. Completely out of nowhere, with no network hashrate change.

So far the one thing they all have in common is the peculiarity of the situation. I haven't examined what each coin is based off of (to see if it's a code issue), but even if it isn't a code issue, it could in fact be network manipulation. Ghosts in the machine exist for a reason.

It's understandable to have a block show up as orphan, even within a few minutes of being found, but as a coin developer/supporter, how can you explain to us blocks which are goin orphan so far after being confirmed?

And one other question, why can't you have your primary developer spend 15 minutes to examine the code quoted above, to determine if the negative retarget bug may be affecting TAG? Wouldn't 15 minutes go a long way?

2 minutes and a sip of coffee.. it's not that hard. Milk's questions were decent and required a similar response. Unlike many folks on this thread, he has demonstrated communication skills and seems to want to carry on conversation and pursue facts, routing out the mysteries.


I'm not for or against any OEM over another WRT analyzing the situation and sharing what I know or what my estimation is. See my position below.


If I'm wrong I'm wrong, if I'm right so be it. I don't take it personally. I've been right before, I've been wrong before. I've predicted difficulty hops 120 days out within 1% accuracy, and the last one I was off decently due to not keeping track of hidden hashpower. It happens. The key is to not take any of this personally and throw attacks out there.


I agree, KNC has been the best of the bunch so far. Their product performed much better than estimated, and their delivery time was only about a month off. I had full confidence because of this for the 2nd batch as well. WRT buying something from them again, once emerging negative patterns started popping out, I couldn't give them a full stamp of approval anymore, but would've been willing to go with them. They still were a good solution for others though, at the time.

However, since then, no physical product from them at this point in time would be a good purchase, UNLESS you're hedging on BTC value shooting up, which would also demand you simply hold. Thereagain, you could simply buy and hold without mining.

It's not a campaign to destroy KNC to discuss this.

Also, I mentioned Orama could be on vacation because he hasn't logged into his account here in over a week, or elsewhere.

Why do you keep repeating April 1st? They, KNCMiner, said verbatim the 'drop dead date' for giving customers access to datacenter hashes would be if they don't make the Q2 timeframe. Not Q1.


I suggested you re-read the entire thread. I've been lurking since day 1 and keeping notes. Not just on KNC, but most of the claimed OEM's. Call it a hobby. Avenger, myself, a few others, all individually started noticing emerging patterns from KNC, and we all pretty much called the ball, and come to find out we were all pretty much on target. I don't need to provide any further foundation for what I'm saying. Heck, go back to November timeframe and read on, you'll see what we said was true. Or don't, it's not that big a deal for 1 person to be challenging proven individuals.


Did you miss the part of ROI? Sure they offer hash capability for a dollar amount. If that's your basis for saying they're not leaving you without options, then you have pretty low standards.


Their business model for sales is based on 3TH. That should be anyone's primary number for calculating return. Based on pages of math done throughout this thread, it's likely that you will be able to get 4.5 out of it without terrible effort, possibly 5.5 if you have the capability. The primary limitation is power.


KNC stipulated if it came to cloudhashing, it would be if they missed Q2 shipping, which means after Q2. It will then begin in order of batches. Did you guys miss the newsletter and emails?


Capable? Possibly. Probable? Not likely. Going off of how the Jupiters were engineered and deployed, they put a lot of squeeze room into the design mainly in case of failure of the design. They discussed this last summer. They under-rated on purpose, it was both a sales tactic and a safety net for engineering. This is why the November units couldn't overclock as much, because they came pre-squeezed. For Neptunes, they stated they would pre-squeeze them as well, up to nominal power limits WRT US outlets, which is where you get your 3TH figure.

Again, and I know this sounds as if you've heard it before.. this all comes from newsletters, email, and information throughout the thread...


They stipulated regardless of capability, each order would only be allotted the sales-figure-based hashrate of 3TH.


They have more than enough production capacity because they rent production capacity based on demand. They simply diverted it for their own needs instead of allowing customers to purchase it. As is their right.


...Which proves what we were saying earlier, it won't earn its cost back without tremendous luck from the luck fairy, because few households can support a single 6TH unit, and it's not likely their first-time-run 20nm architecture will achieve those speeds anyhow. Imagine a 4TH machine delivered in May.


Other situations do in fact exist, and it's not narrowminded if you think about it. They offered a product, people paid for it, they delivered. With exception to the modules (which, by law, they should provide), they're not bound to provide any other products or services. The NPS wasn't exactly part of their by-laws, it was just a statement of idealism. I hold them more accountable for the modules which everyone in 2013 is entitled to, as well as yourself--the Neptune batches 1 and 2 were sold with "Modular upgradability" as a bullet point.

Part of the reason they've been running their own datacenter for awhile now (since November), is likely due to their foreseeing the possibilities of everything which has since occured, including 1/3rd of their cash capital being refunded to customers. They needed something to return when they had to cut off refunds. They needed 66% of the cash for the product and their venture. This is why their 3rd Neptune batch didn't have refunds.

I'm not as narrowminded as you might  believe, and if you knew me and knew how often my estimations and predictions were within 1 deviation of accuracy, you might be more understanding as to why I'm suggesting you keep up with the thread and other news outlets. Most of your postulations or thoughts have all been answered.. by KNC for the most part, without our "views".