Numbers tell otherwise. Well over 50% market share, and by far the deepest order book of all exchanges. MtGox is clearly the most trusted of all exchanges.
MtGox is clearly those exchange of the bigger ones, that is losing market share at the highest speed. Their market share has always been following volume, and volume has been extraordinary low for a while. MtGox went back over 80% for a while yesterday when volume was high (24h volume). Today is a high volume day. Biggest volume at BitStamp since more than 5 weeks, but today BitStamp is not far behind Gox. (24k / 29k) The times they are a changin ... |
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Whales are buying BTC in large quantities to move out of Gox. They don't necessarily need to cash out immediately. They could be holding BTC for speculative purposes as there is no other exchange that could possibly handle that volume (neither can Gox, that's why the price has moved so dramatically).
This is quite obvious when you see such large buy orders in 1 minute time spans vs a gradual move up in price.
They are buying BTC in large quantities to move out of MtGox, but they don't move it out of MtGox? Is this some kind of New Speak for speculative buying because they believe the price is going up? Where did zeroblock argue that they don't move it out of MtGox? Sometimes it would be no disadvantage zu keep quiet. |
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Sturle & Zarathustra
Looks like you'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
We both get the points you're making and some will agree with one and others will agree with the other.
This is an issue of opinion and neither one is necessarily correct.
Time will tell which one of you is right for this occasion though.
Yes, but I can not be wrong, because I don't predict that gox will go bankrupt. I only say, that companies with such behavier do have a high risk of going bankrupt, which is reflected in the market price. |
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It's a risk premium. They buy because of the risk, that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. You are denying these facts and against these facts you are promoting such irresponsible, misleading zombie-business-behavior.
I can't see any reason to be concerned about MtGox's economy at their current volume. Their income is good and likely much higher than their expenses. People have been claiming bankruptcy over the Dwolla seizures, but when the amount became public the size fit straight into Mark's description. Not a problem. CoinLab is in liquidation, and the suit was without any merit anyway. They never did anything to get licensed as a money transmitter. So far MtGox seems to be in good health economically. Their information could be better, more precise and more updated, but so far I haven't had any problems staying informed by watching the right channels. Just don't believe anything the trolls here tell you second-hand. Please tell me which facts I am denying. As I wrote above: It's a risk premium. You are denying the fact that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. The merchants (smart money) left gox already. They are not stupid. |
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Over the month, it is as low as never before.
I'll not claim never, but yes. Total trade volume the last month has been record low. It was quite low in July 2011 as well. Short volume spikes represent the moments when more smart money is leaving this rididulous company with its ridiculous, misleading information policy. What is your motivation to promote this kind of business doing? Any other interests?
Smart money wouldn't buy at 10 to 20% above the price at other exchanges unless it is a speculative buy in expectation of increasing prices. Those money won't leave. Smart money intending to leave will leave as fiat. Dumb money intending to leave will do so at a 10 to 20% loss, but this will show as a volume spike on at least two exchanges. I dislike smear and FUD campaigns, and my only motivation is to stop the epidemic of zombies losing their money on bad advice. It's a risk premium. They buy because of the risk, that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. You are denying these facts and against these facts you are promoting such irresponsible, misleading zombie-business-behavior. |
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Numbers tell otherwise. Well over 50% market share, and by far the deepest order book of all exchanges. MtGox is clearly the most trusted of all exchanges.
MtGox is clearly those exchange of the bigger ones, that is losing market share at the highest speed. Their market share has always been following volume, and volume has been extraordinary low for a while. MtGox went back over 80% for a while yesterday when volume was high (24h volume). Over the month, it is as low as never before. Short volume spikes represent the moments when more smart money is leaving this rididulous company with its ridiculous, misleading information policy. What is your motivation to promote this kind of business doing? Any other interests? |
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The supply of stupid people selling at a loss is endless.
The believers and stupid promoters of companies with stupid, irreal, misleading and ridiculous information policy like this: https://www.mtgox.com/https://support.mtgox.com/home... are limited within the bitcoin community, because the average bitcoiner is not stupid. Numbers tell otherwise. Well over 50% market share, and by far the deepest order book of all exchanges. MtGox is clearly the most trusted of all exchanges. MtGox is clearly those exchange of the bigger ones, that is losing market share at the highest speed. |
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The supply of stupid people selling at a loss is endless.
The believers and stupid promoters of companies with stupid, irreal, misleading and ridiculous information policy like this: https://www.mtgox.com/https://support.mtgox.com/home... are limited within the bitcoin community, because the average bitcoiner is not stupid. |
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ok great so let them lose business naturally, spreading FUD all over the forum to advertise your site is just pissing people off.
"Lose business naturally?" You mean just let other people get screwed by the spread? I'm not spreading FUD, im informing people of something that should be alarming! People wouldn't lose money on the spread if they weren't listening to your FUD. This is like watching a zombie movie. Zombies trying to infect stupid people to make more zombies. I make money on the spread. So do many other posters in this thread, but not all of us are doing out best to escalate it. To me what's best for Bitcoin comes before what's best for my own wallet. You think, you are Jesus, but to promote companies with such unpronounceable 'customer service' is not good for bitcoin, it is very bad for bitcoin and its reputation. |
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First of all it is quite easy to sell at MtGox prices elsewhere. I've always done that to avoid withdrawal fees. There is no need to sell at a loss.
Could you give me an example? Buyers in LocalBitcoins are willing to pay Mt Gox spot or sometimes even higher for bitcoins. Ah, at the J_R Exchange. Nice spreads! 119.- / 79.- |
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I have never seen MtGox's market share below 50%. Not even a 24 hour period. Some people making that claim have done the mistake of ignoring all currencies on MtGox than USD. Non-USD volume is usually a large part of the total volume on MtGox.
You think, this is an answer to my question? Then again: Why did their USD market share crash from 75 to 45 percent within weeks? I guess, because (as it is reflected bei the opinions in these threads) the smart money is rapidly leaving and the dumb money is still waiting (for godot), or doing 'arbitrage'. The answer is more complex than you think. First of all the total volume crashed. MtGox is boss at high volume, and at low volume it is more even. The volume has been record low for a while, and the reason why the picture is very different today. Second, while USD volume at MtGox has gone down, EUR and JPY volume has gone up. Those are the smart money doing arbitrage, buying BTC from other exchanges to sell at MtGox. Then there are people panicing, of course due to USD withdrawal problems. (That's your dumb money leaving at a loss.) If you have an EUR withdrawal waiting for more than a week, you should check and make sure it is a SEPA withdrawal. It is easy to make the mistake of making it an international transfer instead. Then contact support to make sure everything is in order. No errors in forms or anything else making the transfer fail. Only time will tell which bitcointalk members were representing the smart money. As for my part, I am not in business with this company, and if my company would have a gox-like customer service, I'd be bancrupt long before. The latest joke is, that BTC transactions take 1-2 weeks: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277693.msg2965858#msg2965858 |
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If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.
And why crashed their market share from 75 to 45 percent within weeks? I guess because the smart money is leaving and the dumb money is still waiting (for godot). I have never seen MtGox's market share below 50%. Not even a 24 hour period. Some people making that claim have done the mistake of ignoring all currencies on MtGox than USD. Non-USD volume is usually a large part of the total volume on MtGox. You think, this is an answer to my question? Then again: Why did their USD market share crash from 75 to 45 percent within weeks? I guess, because (as it is reflected bei the opinions in these threads) the smart money is rapidly leaving and the dumb money is still waiting (for godot), or doing 'arbitrage'. |
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If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.
And why did their market share crash from 75 to 45 percent within weeks? I guess because the smart money is leaving and the dumb money is still waiting (for godot). |
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I'd assume that government "size" has to do with regulations/power, correct? Wrong. It is necessarily based on an objective quantitative measure (you might be unfamiliar with such concepts if you are a touchy0felly type of analyst), percentage of GDP. The "chinese miracle" you are getting all excited about many holes in it when put under the microscope, not the least of which is that the govt. is the only entity producing economic numbers ... and happens only in pockets of there economy (foreign corporate factories) where the authoritarian govt intentionally gets out of the way and allows the free market to work (usually through kickbacks and working around the central govt laws rather inside them). Within a stateless environment (communities in the rainforest, arctic tundra etc.), there is zero GDP Growth. No state - no growth, but self-sufficiency. |
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You talk about it as if there's a hard delineation between government and corporate: the actual line is incredibly blurry. The separation of these roles is becoming increasingly meaningless.
No, there is no line. There never was a line. Corporations are creations of and effectively subsidiaries of government. Saying that "when government power goes down, corporate power goes up" is nonsense, because corporations only exist because of government power. Without government there would be no corporations. Exactly. No state - no economy. Beyond the state, nobody needs an economy. Living beyond the state is living in self-sufficiency. |
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The invention of paper money was soon followed by the invention of central banks and fractional reserve banking.
There is no such thing as a 'paper money'. Money is debt, and debt is a very substantial thing. |
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Think what you want, but you only concerned with relative values. The market volume is very small at the moment.
In some situations a bicycle is faster than a car in city traffic. But no one would argue that a bicycle is generally faster than a car.
Gox is neither a car nor a bicycle; it is an Undead, a Zombie. It is an analphabetic construct that is not able to give support and informations to their customers for weeks and months. If I would serve my customers this way with robotic copy/paste 'answers', I would be forced into bankruptcy long before. Companies with such service have a high probability to go bankrupt. As soon as we are back on the highway, you will understand what I mean. Once Gox has solved its problems, we will have again trading volumes as seen earlier this year. Pure guessing. You should write: If Gox will be able to solve its problems ....When I read these threads about Gox, then I guess that the smart money left this place already. The remaining money is the dumb money. |
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