i have done.. nothing, really. but maybe this thread can be of use to some people who are looking for ideas on what to do in the event of a great economic collapse, which most of us tend to believe is coming within our lifetime.. or even this decade. what are some suggestions? if i were a millionaire, i'd consider it a good investment.
- stockpile some chlorine. in the event of a great economic collapse, clean water will be scarce. you only need a small amount of chlorine to purify water.
- possibly invest in solar panels and renewable energy/resources?
- buy some guns/firearms to protect yourself?
You can't prepare, because as soon as the networks (internet and electricity) are shutting down, the planet will face 500 Fukushimas, but without cooling the reactors and the fuel pools. So, the entire inventory of all nuclear plants will be blown into the atmosphere. |
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I just want to remind to anybody who is taking the time to carefully present arguments in this thread, that even if porc is not listening to you, you are not wasting your time, since other people like me are interested in these arguments. This thread provided me with good insights about the viability of bitcoin, and as a result I'm more convinced than ever of its great future.
Yes, that's the utility of a troll. As Peter Lambert wrote: We can feed him indefinitely. |
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Never going to happen. Maybe someday someone will open a service which will convert funds and make it on your behalf.
The US dollar is legal tender in the US. That includes that it must be accepted for payment of debt and taxes. No nation is ever going to give a "foreign" currency legal tender status.
That's wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro |
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There is no such thing as a barter economy. Never ever in history. Since the era of self-sufficient communities endet about 10'000 years ago and business/market/collectivism/church/state (organized violence) was installed, the money was debt and the debt was money, backed by a fraction of anything (metal or grain) that the state demanded as the tribute (tax).
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Gold bugs against Gold 2.0 bugs (Judean People's Front against the People's Front of Judea)
Yes at the moment people think that bitcoin has value (most people actually dont even think about bitcoins actual value, but only buy because the price is increasing). Thus they pay something for it (price). That does not mean that bitcoin actually HAS value. People can think that something has value even though it has no value (to a rational and sane human being). Thus something can have a HIGH PRICE despite having no value. People can be incorrect, and once they figure it out, the PRICE adjust to the objects actual utility (from the perspective of a rational and sane human being) in fullfilling human needs.
(..)
Why is that so difficult to understand?
Yes at the moment people think that Gold has value. Thus they pay something for it (price). That does not mean that Gold actually HAS value. People can think that something has value even though it has no value (to a rational and sane human being). Thus something can have a HIGH PRICE despite having no value. People can be incorrect, and once they figure it out, the PRICE adjust to the objects actual utility (from the perspective of a rational and sane human being) in fullfilling human needs. (..) Why is that so difficult to understand? |
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BTC is a great example, as I cant do anything with it except dump it on the next guy.
Yes we know: YOU can't, because you are only a troll who is unloading the same BS again and again and therefore without any coin of Gold 2.0. You missed this paradigm change because you are blind. But WE can: store, barter, transfer, divide, donate, create, etc. etc. To transfer Gold 2.0 out of Argentina or Cyprus is much easyer than to escape with Money and Gold. There is a causal reason why the value of Gold 2.0 is rising against Gold. |
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In how many threads do you want to unload this BS?
Now lets look at BTC. BTC REALLY is NOTHING. I cant do anything with it.
Of course YOU cannot, because you missed the train and because you don't have the brain to do anything with it. But WE can: store it, barter, transfer, donate, create, divide, lose it etc. etc.; zero problem for us. |
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Now lets look at bitcoin. Bitcoin REALLY is NOTHING. I cant do anything with it.
Of course YOU cannot, because you missed the train. But WE can: store, barter, transfer, donate, create, lose it etc. etc. |
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There will be no steady state.
This pyramid will collapse at some point.
Boom Bust.
How high can it go? 20.000/bitcoin, 15.000/bitcoin, 10.000/bitcoin ? 5000/bitcoin? 2000/bitcoin? I dont know.
I will be revisiting this forum when the crash has occured.
Civilization (= collectivism) is always boom/bust. Nothing new about that. Only uncivilized human being was comparatively stable. Civilization =/ collectivism. Stop babbling. Bitcoins Value: 0 Current market price: 922 ... You really know nothing about anything. Since humans are civilized, they don't live in self-sufficient communities within Dunbar's Number anymore. They live collectivized, paternalized as divided labor slaves within hypercollectives (labor division) beyond Dunbar's Numbers: hypercollectives of the Millions. Current value of an ounce of Gold 2.0: 0.75 of an ounce of Gold. |
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There will be no steady state.
This pyramid will collapse at some point.
Boom Bust.
How high can it go? 20.000/bitcoin, 15.000/bitcoin, 10.000/bitcoin ? 5000/bitcoin? 2000/bitcoin? I dont know.
I will be revisiting this forum when the crash has occured.
Civilization (= collectivism) is always boom/bust. Nothing new about that. Only uncivilized human being was comparatively stable. |
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Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive.
But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself.
The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0.
As a side note, the external usage you refer to here is correctly called utility as a measure of the commodity usefulness to an individual... Thanks. English is not my native language. |
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The hallmark of Pyramid. Get more people involved, pass it (nothing) on to the next shmuck. 99.99% of btc owners are in it strictly to make a quick profit. The opposite of how money originated.
This could drag out for awhile, though. The tulip craze lasted nearly a decade, the greatest scam of all time Social Security for 70+. I own tulipcoins myself (quite bullish short term lol), any suckers left ? Step on up..
That was a single event. It crashed only once. That's a difference to Gold 2.0.  |
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I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium,
with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine,
hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value
What you are missing is that golds monetary value only exists because it has intrinsic value (jewelry). Without golds beauty value it has no money value. Money needs to have certain properties like being divisible, scarce etc. AND it needs to have intrinsic value. You cant SEPARATE intrinsic value from money value. That's wrong as everything that you are unloading here. Gold got its value because the state (warlords and priests) demanded it as the tribute and with this tribute, they built its weapons.  http://www.goldseiten.de/content/kolumnen/download/pcm-17.pdf |
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I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Water has extremely high intrinsic "survival" value, but low intrinsic "monetary" value
The vast difference in "monetary" value roots from supply and demand.
Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive. But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0. |
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Transferring something does not give it value.
Dump, transfer, barter, donate, destroy, store ... Transferring it out of Argentina/Cyprus does give it value. Are you blind? |
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I have addressed this already. Bitcoin cant be a store of value as it has not value. Bitcoin cant be a media of exchange, as it has no value. I think you mean it doesn't have value "for you". That's not the same thing as it having not value "for markets"  You appear to have started this thread from a sense of frustrated cognitive dissonance - i.e. you can't understand why something that you personally can't see any value in can be traded for so much money. Although your sense of confusion has been amply induldged on here, it isn't really our problem. I suggest you buy at least 1 bitcoin right now as insurance. That way you won't have to be standing with your pants around your ankles in 12 months time when the price is at $10,000 ranting about why it has "no value" Money needs to have certain properties and one of them is that it needs to have value in and of itself. Golds inherent value: its great to look at and we like to touch it. humans loved the look of this metal since dawn of man. That's the opposite of inherent and intrinsic. It is external usage. Are you blind? What can I do with Bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy?
Dump, transfer, barter, donate, destroy, store ... Are you blind? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
ANYTHING Now what is frustrating to me, is the delusion/ crowd think fellow libertarians are falling in to. This is a pyramid and lots of people will get hurt.
It seems that you are hurted by the fact that you missed the train. Give up. Nobody will believe your fairytales. What can I do with Bitcoin EXCEPT DUMPING IT ON THE NEXT GUY? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Fairytale of bitcoiners: People will in future (even though this has never happened in history over a prolonged period of time) EXCHANGE SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. Well if you say so. You wont be dumping your NOTHING on me thats for sure. Dump, transfer, barter, donate, destroy, store ... Are you blind? |
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An object/ thing MUST! have intrinsic value in order to be MONEY! It also needs to be all the other things: divisible, scarce etc.
You can not SEPERATE golds pretty value and the fact that we like to touch it, FROM its money value. Without the its intrinsic value it would have NO money value.
The sooner you appreciate this fact the better, as the current PRICE of bitcoin will not last.
The story of the intrinsic value is the greatest BS ever. Repeating spreading BS doesn' make it better. Stop diverting. If you agree with the term intrinsic doesnt matter. Water has value, as it quenches my thirst. Again I am talking about value in and of itself. Water has value in and of itself. I dont need to trade it. It HAS! value. You are spreading BS again and again. Water has no value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable. Are you blind? Extenal use=?  ? Fact is: Water is valuable to humans because we need to drink it to survive. Thus waters value is that we can drink it. If I have water I dont need to trade it for it to become valuable. It already has value! Get it in your head. Bitcoin: What can I do with a bitcoin except dump it on the next guy? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. LET THAT SINK IN: You can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! with a bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) I can store Gold and Gold 2.0, I can sell it, I can transfer it, I can donate it, I can lose it etc. etc. You are being extremely Pedantic. That wont hide THIS fact: I can DRINK water. I can decorate my HOUSE with gold and I LOVE to look at it and TOUCH it. What can I do with bitcoin? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) store , barter, transfer, donate, lose it etc. etc. |
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I have addressed this already. Bitcoin cant be a store of value as it has not value. Bitcoin cant be a media of exchange, as it has no value. I think you mean it doesn't have value "for you". That's not the same thing as it having not value "for markets" You appear to have started this thread from a sense of frustrated cognitive dissonance - i.e. you can't understand why something that you personally can't see any value in can be traded for so much money. Although your sense of confusion has been amply induldged on here, it isn't really our problem. I suggest you buy at least 1 bitcoin right now as insurance. That way you won't have to be standing with your pants around your ankles in 12 months time when the price is at $10,000 ranting about why it has "no value" Money needs to have certain properties and one of them is that it needs to have value in and of itself. Golds inherent value: its great to look at and we like to touch it. humans loved the look of this metal since dawn of man. That's the opposite of inherent and intrinsic. It is external usage. Are you blind? What can I do with Bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy?
Dump, transfer, barter, donate, destroy, store ... Are you blind? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
ANYTHING Now what is frustrating to me, is the delusion/ crowd think fellow libertarians are falling in to. This is a pyramid and lots of people will get hurt.
It seems that you are hurted by the fact that you missed the train. Give up. Nobody will believe your fairytales. |
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An object/ thing MUST! have intrinsic value in order to be MONEY! It also needs to be all the other things: divisible, scarce etc.
You can not SEPERATE golds pretty value and the fact that we like to touch it, FROM its money value. Without the its intrinsic value it would have NO money value.
The sooner you appreciate this fact the better, as the current PRICE of bitcoin will not last.
The story of the intrinsic value is the greatest BS ever. Repeating spreading BS doesn' make it better. Stop diverting. If you agree with the term intrinsic doesnt matter. Water has value, as it quenches my thirst. Again I am talking about value in and of itself. Water has value in and of itself. I dont need to trade it. It HAS! value. You are spreading BS again and again. Water has no value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable. Are you blind? Extenal use=? ? Fact is: Water is valuable to humans because we need to drink it to survive. Thus waters value is that we can drink it. If I have water I dont need to trade it for it to become valuable. It already has value! Get it in your head. Bitcoin: What can I do with a bitcoin except dump it on the next guy? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. LET THAT SINK IN: You can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! with a bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) I can store Gold and Gold 2.0, I can sell it, I can transfer it, I can donate it, I can lose it etc. etc. |
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