"I was having 5 hours dinner with Gavin, Greg Maxwell & Adam Back"
"Why do we hire Bitcoin"
Greg & Adam: "Monetary sovereignty"
Gavin: "Because when I make a payment I feel good"
Monetary sovereignty for the stream blockers. |
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lost ph0rked coins makes ours worth moar.  because secured, as in secured from the noobs and their consumerist dreams as we also get less exposed to all corporate scams. so bring it on b!tches  coin will be the worthless one. The coin for the meme generators, the coin for the warriors, the ad hominems, the DoS'ers, the node fakers, the quote fakers. The chance that your coin will be the valid one is zero. |
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By the way, I am still taking 1 BTC bets (subject to deposit in a 2-of-3 escrowed wallet) that the longest proof-of-work chain will contain a block larger than 1 MB by this time next year.
And still with a high degree of vaugeness about what is meant by 'the longest proof-of-work chain' I see. I will say that in my mind, a change in protocol which is not agreed to by ALL of the currently active core contributors is not valid and it does not matter if it is long enough to reach from Earth to the edge of the solar system. Btw if peter would be more serious about this, i'd take the bet. I am quite serious. If the longest chain contains a block greater than 1 MB by this time next year I win, otherwise you win. The longest chain is defined as the chain built on top of the Satoshi genesis block with the greatest cumulative difficulty. If Bitcoin forks, then I only win if the "large block" fork has a greater cumulative difficulty than the "small block" fork. As for escrow, I am open to suggestions. Danny Hamilton and Jonald Fyookball come to mind. We would each deposit 1 BTC into a 2-of-3 multisig address and the escrow would hold the third key. Whatever you offer, they refuse. q.e.d. |
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Again, it doesn't matter what "the market" wants, Bitcoin is not governed by free-market but by rules enforced by a consensus of its peers so as to keep every network actors' incentives aligned.
How soon we forget the peer-to-peer network is useless and worthless if it doesn't serve a market... It's tiered. 3 tiers. (welcome to Bitcoin by the way, I understand you're new to the subject) Tier 1 is the development team writing rules for the consensus algorithm. This happens in the first instance (i.e. Satoshi etc) That's how Bitcoin has been since day one. Until it changed. It's the same with all Open Source Projects. 'In the first instance', there is the team. Later, there are the teams (competition). "Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks [and communists] economics." We all know you simultaneously believe that Bitcoin already has the users at Tier 1 and also that the users should be promoted to tier 1. My advice to you and Peter and the rest of you cohort; go and do it if you believe in it so much. But don't keep implying your preferred model is the reality, or to alter the bitcoin system into that model; the model is as stated above.
Take some more advice: if you wish to make meaningful replies in any debate, it helps to establish your credibility as a participant if you can demonstrate that you comprehend any points you seek to reply to. If you cannot do this, the literal context for the argument cannot even take place, i.e. discourse, but not an argument Notorious ad hominem users are not in a position to give advice about credibility. |
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Again, it doesn't matter what "the market" wants, Bitcoin is not governed by free-market but by rules enforced by a consensus of its peers so as to keep every network actors' incentives aligned.
How soon we forget the peer-to-peer network is useless and worthless if it doesn't serve a market... It's tiered. 3 tiers. (welcome to Bitcoin by the way, I understand you're new to the subject) Tier 1 is the development team writing rules for the consensus algorithm. This happens in the first instance (i.e. Satoshi etc) That's how Bitcoin has been since day one. Until it changed. It's the same with all Open Source Projects. 'In the first instance', there is the team. Later, there are the teams (competition). "Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks [and communists] economics." |
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I'm not asking what scaling solution is best. I'm asking the question: if the market wants to be at Q* but the production quota forces it to be at Qmax, who exactly will enforce the quota (especially over the long term as forking pressure builds)?
Normally, the answer is "the government" (or some powerful organization). But something like Bitcoin is governed by the market itself, is it not? How can the market enforce a quota that the market itself does not want? Well, I don't think it can.
There's a subtlety here: is the "thing" that will enforce the quota necessarily the same "thing" that wants to break the quota? The answer is not completely clear to me...
The code Peter, the code! Bitcoin is not governed by the market!... Good; I sort of agree. Bitcoin is indeed governed by the code that people run. But is it not these same people who choose which code to run? And are not these the same people who, in aggregate, become "the market"? I would argue then, that in the final analysis, it is the will of the market that controls the code and thus it is the will of the market that governs Bitcoin. Yes. As you wrote: There's a reason Revalin's quote is famous: "Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics." |
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For the miners or people with mining experience out there...
How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?
you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US. However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day. How exactly-your imagination is the limit. These amaounts are really low with 400 dollars investment and also these btc computer can ship 16th November. Why will people buy this btc computer? I do not understand anything about it. I miss something. Because "This is amazing  " https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1186115.msg12485714#msg12485714 |
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Yes, q.e.d.
Needless to say that the Swiss direct democracy generates a better (broad) education system (not just the higher education for the 1 percent).
...
Ya, educating kids about how great it is to butt-fuck one another. Yes, that's civilization and capitalism (patri archy). That means competition, in contrast to the stateless, self-sufficient community ( anarchy). I'm postulating anarchy, but among the several different reign systems I still prefer direct democracy over elitist/feudalist systems. Sounds like pervi archy to me. I'm postulating that you sheep are under management of a bunch of one-worlders who don't want you, or anyone else, reproduce on your own and without proper management. Your postulates are schizophrenic. You are against progressiv and regressive education systems at the same time: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144606.msg12451762#msg12451762https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144606.msg12454448#msg12454448Counter 'arguments' as an end in itself. As far as education goes, I've relatively recently and relatively abruptly gone 'old school'. As long as people somehow learn the three R's (reading, writing, and 'rithmatic), that's fine and it doesn't matter how it happens. Hopefully it would happen in small localized groups as much as possible. After that, if some kids want to go farther, fantastic. I'm happy to have my tax dollars go toward that as well. These factory schools are as bad for kids and factory farms are bad for swine in my opinion. And the end goal of pure exploitation by the factory owners is very similar as well. I don't think it is appropriate for teachers to demo their perversions on kids even if the 'community consensus' in places like Switzerland is that pre-schoolers should know everything there is to know about sodomy and what-not. But, hey, it's your country. I'm not going to run over there and try to change you folks just because you do things that I think are sick. Societies are not communities. But yes, direct democratic ruled people don't need elitists who define for others what's sick and whats' not. |
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whats disheartening is seeing how poeple are so afraid of the tiniest changes, bitcoin development grinds to a halt.
Even if people make a hard fork to 1.5MB, it wouldn't be tiniest of changes. Stopping mining pools to run a new daemon is easy and all, but the problem is that the world wouldn't update all at once, and the whole Bitcoin "ecosystem" would have a temporary problem with the "2 blockchains". I think they can all update at once, like BitcoinXT planned to do, everyone run the new software which runs old code until some high percentage of blocks are hashing with the new version. and one time there was an emergency hard fork without any of this fancy way of updating everyone all at once and it took a few hours for the new chain to catch up. i'd argue that not changing the 1MB is a change in and of itself, we were promised this limit would move up as needed. satoshi knew what that would do, and he talked about SPV clients becoming more important as time went on. not changing the limit is changing the game plan in a big way. Yes, the stagnaters (stream blockers) are the real forkers. |
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Yes, q.e.d.
Needless to say that the Swiss direct democracy generates a better (broad) education system (not just the higher education for the 1 percent).
...
Ya, educating kids about how great it is to butt-fuck one another. Yes, that's civilization and capitalism (patri archy). That means competition, in contrast to the stateless, self-sufficient community ( anarchy). I'm postulating anarchy, but among the several different reign systems I still prefer direct democracy over elitist/feudalist systems. Sounds like pervi archy to me. I'm postulating that you sheep are under management of a bunch of one-worlders who don't want you, or anyone else, reproduce on your own and without proper management. Your postulates are schizophrenic. You are against progressiv and regressive education systems at the same time: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144606.msg12451762#msg12451762https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144606.msg12454448#msg12454448Counter 'arguments' as an end in itself. |
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It's not a matter of opinions it is a matter of facts. Saying that XT is a programmed altcoin is even a bigger LIE.
The logic behind calling XT an altcoin is the fact that it is not Bitcoin without nearly 100% consensus. 75% isn't enough, 100% of the miners isn't enough. It needs something like 99.9% of the miners and 99.9% of the industry before its considered Bitcoin. If you take Bitcoin's and fork it, you have an alt coin. So until XT completely assimilates and I mean completely as in 99.9% Bitcoin and all of its users, it is not Bitcoin. That isn't to say that Bitcoin XT is banned here, it just doesn't belong in Bitcoin sections. If you really think a 75% fork would result in 25% of people staying on core even after the split, then Core would become an altcoin, not XT. Funny theory. The 99% will then become the Altcoiners and the 1% remain the Bitcoiners. The next fork will teach some people that only nuclear (Dunbar) communities are consensus ruled. Movements of Millions in the Society are never ever consensus ruled. |
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Banning users and deleting discussions (Reddit) or even moving them (BCT) solely to reach some political goal is not 'so called "censorship"' it is the very definition of it.
Moving threads is not the definition of censorship. Aha. And closing a thread? |
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Absolutely, and regressing rapidly as our society and education system devolves. Yes, q.e.d. Needless to say that the Swiss direct democracy generates a better (broad) education system (not just the higher education for the 1 percent). ... Ya, educating kids about how great it is to butt-fuck one another. Yes, that's civilization and capitalism (patri archy). That means competition, in contrast to the stateless, self-sufficient community ( anarchy). I'm postulating anarchy, but among the several different reign systems I still prefer direct democracy over elitist/feudalist systems. eh, always the false antagonisms fud: patriachy vs anarchy blablabla.. time to change the bloody record dude.. If you don't know the history - your problem. |
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Absolutely, and regressing rapidly as our society and education system devolves. Yes, q.e.d. Needless to say that the Swiss direct democracy generates a better (broad) education system (not just the higher education for the 1 percent). ... Ya, educating kids about how great it is to butt-fuck one another. Yes, that's civilization and capitalism (patri archy). That means competition, in contrast to the stateless, self-sufficient community ( anarchy). I'm postulating anarchy, but among the several different reign systems I still prefer direct democracy over elitist/feudalist systems. |
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Nestle is operational, or planning to be, buying water in my state for '$0.00225 per gallon' and selling it for 'up to $2.63 per gallon'. I'd say that multi-national corporations headquartered in Switzerland are as up-to-speed as any on how to exploit 'underdeveloped' populations worldwide. Small wonder that they are as out-in-front as any in trying to get guns out of the hands of people of areas that they exploit. Gotta protect those infrastructure investments. The people of Oregon are 'underdeveloped'? Absolutely, and regressing rapidly as our society and education system devolves. Yes, q.e.d. Needless to say that the Swiss direct democracy generates a better (broad) education system (not just the higher education for the 1 percent). For the sixth consecutive edition, Switzerland tops the rankings of the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report. Since 1979, this annual study has helped to pinpoint the reasons behind the differing fortunes of the countries studied – 144 economies in the 2014-2015 edition.
Switzerland owes its success to a combination of factors. Among these are its stable, transparent and effective institutions; sound and healthy public finances; an attractive tax regime; excellent infrastructure and connectivity; a world-class education system; relatively peaceful relations among social actors within a flexible labour market; the highest level of business sophistication; and, most importantly, an exceptional capacity for innovation. In advanced countries, innovation is the main source of long-term growth. However, few countries can pride themselves on being global innovation powerhouses. With the highest international patent application rate per inhabitant in the world, Switzerland is certainly entitled to make this claim.http://www.weforum.org/content/what-makes-switzerland-so-competitive |
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It's acctually irrelevant what his stance was on the subject. The perceived censorship was acctually just a warning shot over the head of those people who wants to harm Bitcoin and disrupt the communication channels on this forum and on \r\Bitcoin on Reddit to stop their brigading and shilling. It was blown up by those same people to fit their agenda and to turn more people against the Core group. The OP is one of those people who hides behind a shill account to bash Core supporters. Let's just stop this in-fighting and write this whole XT fork off as a failure and move on.  Seems that some people hate competition. |
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Yes, otherwise Xapo would not prefer Switzerland, the most direct democracy. That's always producing better results than feudalist/elitist/sociopath ruled territories. OK, let's add geography and politics to the list of things about which Zarathustra knows very little. Switzerland is a confederacy, not a direct democracy. The have multiple sub-jurisdictions and ultimate power resides in the heavily armed populace of the cantons. That's all to deal with the fact that majority rule doesn't scale beyond groups of ~100 people (because we can't remember more names/faces and tragedy of the commons + negative marginal returns ensue when we try). Zar, please say less and listen more, because your colossal ignorance is an embarrassment to the forum, your fail-teachers, and your fail-parents. Ridiculous. 1. I live in Switzerland 2. I spoke twice on that podium in Glarus to the people, until the officials forked me away from the podium 3. Appenzell was the last canton that gave the woman the right to vote 4. Switzerland is the most direct democracy on the planet and that's the reason why companies like Xapo move to this country: The results are better than in elitist/feudalist ruled countries.
Imagine the disaster if people like you, the headbuck, the brg444, the popescu and alikes would rule that country.... lmfao.. nothing to do with banking advantages. democracy.. lol so overrated. hello, this word does not describe what it was supposed to etymologically mean anymore. typical verbal diarrhea. only the sheeples and the statists shills still go for it. How about just freedom? Free of what? A society (patriarchy) can only more ore less be free (free of this and that). Only anarchist, stateless communities in the rainforest are free and selfsufficient. You are not. free from your statist "selfsufficent" fud, and your ill-logic fucked up democracies. heh and this actually perfectly sums it up: http://trilema.com/2015/why-should-the-argentine-population-go-graze-already/Great elitist and feudalist country! No chance for Switzerland to compete with it on the world market.  |
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[...]
Switzerland is a confederacy, not a direct democracy. The have multiple sub-jurisdictions and ultimate power resides in the heavily armed populace of the cantons.
[...]
AFAIK there are four federal votes on different topics per year. Those decisions are based on individual votes and not elected representatives. Why would you not call that direct democracy? Yes. The people can start an initiative for new laws or a referendum that questions the decisions of the politicians, on all three levels commune, canton and federal government. |
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Yes, otherwise Xapo would not prefer Switzerland, the most direct democracy. That's always producing better results than feudalist/elitist/sociopath ruled territories. OK, let's add geography and politics to the list of things about which Zarathustra knows very little. Switzerland is a confederacy, not a direct democracy. The have multiple sub-jurisdictions and ultimate power resides in the heavily armed populace of the cantons. That's all to deal with the fact that majority rule doesn't scale beyond groups of ~100 people (because we can't remember more names/faces and tragedy of the commons + negative marginal returns ensue when we try). Zar, please say less and listen more, because your colossal ignorance is an embarrassment to the forum, your fail-teachers, and your fail-parents. Ridiculous. 1. I live in Switzerland 2. I spoke twice on that podium in Glarus to the people, until the officials forked me away from the podium 3. Appenzell was the last canton that gave the woman the right to vote 4. Switzerland is the most direct democracy on the planet and that's the reason why companies like Xapo move to this country: The results are better than in elitist/feudalist ruled countries.
Imagine the disaster if people like you, the headbuck, the brg444, the popescu and alikes would rule that country.... lmfao.. nothing to do with banking advantages. democracy.. lol so overrated. hello, this word does not describe what it was supposed to etymologically mean anymore. typical verbal diarrhea. only the sheeples and the statists shills still go for it. How about just freedom? Free of what? A society (patriarchy) can only more ore less be free (free of this and that). Only anarchist, stateless communities in the rainforest are free and selfsufficient. You are not. |
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