Another silly thread about the fantasy that Satoshi is a group of multiracial LGTB agents working for the NSA.
Satoshi is one person, a man, white, and probably American. He got the idea from reading Nick Szabo's blog, or from direct communication with Nick Szabo, or because he is Nick Szabo.
I would also bet on Nick Szabo: Dr. Jack Grieve, a lecturer in forensic linguistics at Aston, said: "The number of linguistic similarities between Szabo’s writing and the Bitcoin paper is uncanny, none of the other possible authors were anywhere near as good of a match. We are pretty confident that out of the primary suspects Nick Szabo is the main author of the paper, though we can’t rule out the possibility that others contributed." http://www.businessinsider.com/nick-szabo-bitcoin-2014-4#!J9pQr |
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Well folks you see how politics devolves into an invasion into personal privacy and choice.
The issue was property rights, but the Communists will always try to divert it from that of course.
The thread is basically dead, because there is nothing more to discuss.
Opt-out and let the Communists do the megadeath ritual.
Only collectivists (Communists and Capitalists) demand property rights. Real humans (communities beyond the society) don't. Communism/capitalism is the perversion of the community. |
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Once a collectivist - always a collectivist. I fightet against anonymint, the collectivist in that thread already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.320He will always defend (endlessly until the end) his statist, collectivist BS, which is labor division, (local) police, constitutionally guaranteed (property) rights, constitutionalism, markets, exponantial econonomic growth (destruction), productivity, idiocy etc. Actually I am actively working on something that will render the Constitution irrelevant. Zarathustra wants to return us to the caveman era. You can't find 'increasing gains' within an anarchist, stateless environment:  Increasing gains (vulgo: destruction) start as soon as you collectivize/civilize these free people and 'educate' them at the institutions of the collectivists. 1. Nomads are Nomads; they do not live in caves. 2. The cheerleaders of labor division and society (economic growth / destruction of the planet) are collectivists. An economy/market/society (which is collectivism) has never been something different than a "state bastard" (Paul C. Martin). That's the reason why all collectivists (socialists and capitalists) promote the collectivist institutions and constitutions (militarism, police, all kind of churches and male gods, which is opium for the people). 3. They need collectivism to maintain their lifestyle, which is no life. "The state, I call it, where all are poison-drinkers, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all — is called "life." (Thus spoke Zarathustra) 4. I support an anonymous crypto currency, because it is a tool to destroy the society of the homo oeconomicus, who is not a human anymore. He is a 'living' cartoon of it. A fight between the capitalists and the socialists is a fight of the same creatures: collectivists. A fight of the Judean People's Front' against the People's Front of Judea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE |
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Once a collectivist - always a collectivist. I fightet against anonymint, the collectivist in that thread already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.320He will always defend (endlessly until the end) his statist, collectivist BS, which is labor division, (local) police, constitutionally guaranteed (property) rights, constitutionalism, markets, exponantial econonomic growth (destruction), productivity, idiocy etc. |
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Therefore, someone's 10 Bitcoins will be cloned indefinitely into 10 aether1, aether2, ... , aether9999.
Isn't that inflationary?
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What is the optimum system? *Decentralized political economy and mix of individualized artisan quality production and automation to replace consumerism and authoritarian top down control of collectivized production. Nah... the optimum system is *disconnection* isolation, not integration +1000 Whoever denies this truth is a collectivist. In a million years there was never found labor division beyond the nuclear community. |
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Everything past is definite, everything future is probabilistic.
No, there is no difference between the past and the future. Causality is not probabilistic, neither in the past nor in the future. Einstein: "I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wants,[Der Mensch kann wohl tun, was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will]' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper." Schopenhauer's clearer, actual words were: "You can do what you will, but in any given moment of your life you can will only one definite thing and absolutely nothing other than that one thing." [Du kannst tun was du willst: aber du kannst in jedem gegebenen Augenblick deines Lebens nur ein Bestimmtes wollen und schlechterdings nichts anderes als dieses eine.] I dunno why you brought causality into it. I'm 100% with nagarjan on that one, its his most fundamental thought... Neither from itself nor from another, Nor from both, Nor without a cause, Does anything whatever, anywhere arise. This is nirwana, the non-world. You ask why I brought causality? As soon as you ask 'why?', you want to know the cause of the effect. And I answer: I brought causality be cause the world is either deterministic (causal) or it is probabilistic (noncausal). In my opinion (as well as Diodorus, Spinoza, Hume, Schopenhauer et al.) the world is fully deterministic. The MWI QM interpretation is deterministic as well. |
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Actually every day there a billions of different futures occurring and you can't possibly know them all. Yes, my future is different than your future, and the same is true for the past. But neither the past nor the future is open. |
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Everything past is definite, everything future is probabilistic.
No, there is no difference between the past and the future. Causality is not probabilistic, neither in the past nor in the future. Einstein: "I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wants,[Der Mensch kann wohl tun, was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will]' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper." Schopenhauer's clearer, actual words were: "You can do what you will, but in any given moment of your life you can will only one definite thing and absolutely nothing other than that one thing." [Du kannst tun was du willst: aber du kannst in jedem gegebenen Augenblick deines Lebens nur ein Bestimmtes wollen und schlechterdings nichts anderes als dieses eine.] |
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I not only believe there is only one possible future, but also that the whole existence has been "written" before being played. But from the human mind perspective that is shut-down in the space-time illusion, probabilities is the only way to make assessments, preparations, investments in relation with the future. Exactly, and the 'stone age interpretation' of quantum mechanics (Kopenhagen) is the greatest bullshit ever. »In rerum natura nullum datur contingens, sed omnia ex necessitate divinae naturae determinata sunt ad certo modo existendum et operandum« Spinoza »Le mot hasard sert officieusement à voiler notre ignorance.« Quételet |
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Money doesn't have to be backed by material resources, like gold. If we're on an island that has no gold, should we suspend all trading and starve? Obviously not. The issue is, as with everything, about trust. The problem is not that money is "just an IOU". Every LETS works like that. The problem is who controls the issuance of those IOUs, and the rules that come with it, and the deliberate complexity and bureaucracy that allows parasites to suck off wealth on each level of the pyramid. In a LETS, if I'm a plumber, I can trade one hour of my plumbing work against one hour of your plumbing work. In today's system, I pay the plumber 10 times more per hour than my own hourly wage. Go figure. Yes, money has never been something different than debt. Money is debt, gold is gold and cirarettes are cigarettes. |
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Zarathustra's solution to the power vacuum of collectivism is to tell us to go back to being cavemen.
But what he doesn't acknowledge is cavemen still bludgeoned each other to death with cruder weapons.
No. Paleolithic (pre-patriarchal) anarchy was an epoche without warfare. http://gerhardbott.de/das-buch/summary-in-english.htmlRead it carefully. |
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Warning I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you because I have programming work to do and you are filibustering something very important!
So I will just be forced to delete your nonsense.
Censors are censors because they have no arguments. But if productivity was only debt that we pay back to our masters, then we wouldn't have any sustained rewards. Yet that is not the case as we live better than Kings did.
Until the collectivist society collapses again. Again and again. But this time is different. Collapsing nuclear plants and fuel pools instead of pyramids. This is because of collectivist technology. Really great. You haven't refuted the point I made. You are angry about surpluses for the rich, but it still didn't reverse the permanent gains for the masses in that we live better than Kings did in past centuries. We live longer, less disease, have electricity, refrigeration, internet, combustion engines, etc..
I am not angry about surpluses for the rich. I am angry about the stupidity of the collectivists who believe that this destructive life is a better life than an anarchist one. The sixth great extinction is man made. Or, better spelled: citizen made. "Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst." Bullshit. Leave us and go live there then. Why are you on this internet?
Because self-sufficient communities are destroyed here and I grew up as a paternalized cartoon of a human. Same as you. We can't survive without the Internet as long as a majority doesn't want to. Either we form self-sufficient communities, or we collapse as a society. I tried it. You want to be itchy always? You want to have no refrigeration? You want to spend all your time doing manual labor and very little time to do something productive with your creative brain?
Materialist questions are not the questions that true anarchists ask. They ask: Do you want to be dependent on labor division and interaction with aliens? I realize most of the debt zombies don't have freedom, but I am my own boss and can't do what ever I want every day. This is what technology has afforded me. Because I am a knowledge worker.
It is not relevant what some of us are able to do in this system of labor division.
So go to the jungle now.
The jungle is here about 500 meters from me. Come here and I will teach you a lesson. Do you know how dangerous it is in the jungle?
I have to do some work: I have to help destroying your beloved society of citizens (collectivism). You are now banned from this thread. Do not post here again.
So spoke The Great Dictator ... |
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Zarathustra,
You miss the point that marginal productivity is declining as debt load increases,
I don't miss that. I confirm that. It's a debt driven business cycle with the diminishing effect of additional debt, until the point is reached where the effect dives below zero. thus your argument that the lasting gains in productivity that we have now come only from debt can't possibly make sense as they would all reverse when the debt defaults come.
Tribute was the first debt. This was the beginning of the compulsion to produce ever growing surpluses for the gluttonous masters and rulers. Anarchist, stateless communities don't produce growing surpluses, because there is simply no need there. But the fact is that lower middle class people (and even many poor people in the 3rd world countries) live higher quality lives than Kings did a couple of centuries ago.
This is because of technology.
Non-collectivized people in the rain forests live higher quality lives than Kings and Internet-Children. This is because they don't have technology. The highest suizid rates among children is found in the developed world, South Korea, Japan et al. The proof is that even people here in the Philippines don't live shivering in a cave without electricity any more. They drive motorcycles, they use chainsaws to cut trees faster.
Here in this dinky subdivision where I am currently staying, they are even building the concrete houses using steel preforms, so they can pour all the walls in one pour.
That is technology! Much improved than laying it hollow block by block just several years ago.
Everyone here has a cell phone and smart phones (computers) are proliferating.
Yes, fully brainwashed by the collectivist parents, masters and rulers. The system is 10'000 years old and anarchy survived at some few territories on this planet only. But there will be a rebirth of true anarchy. Kontratjeff cycles are only small ones. There are much bigger ones to come. |
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Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest.
Moderators, must we be forced to have my thread inundated with such incredulous nonsense?!!?    If he actually bothered to look at the marginal increase in GDP for each $dollar of debt added, he would see it is declining. Thus mathematically, he is factually incorrect!   Unfortunately Zarathustra is filibustering this thread. That means every time I delete his post, he reposts it. Thus I have no moderation power if I don't reload the page continuously. I have emailed the moderators about this and asked if they can ban him from posting in the thread. Very good charts. They are true. They present a diminishing marginal effect of additional debt within a debt driven business cycle. Do you - great censor - know what an effect is? The effect of additional debt is additional GDP, until the tipping point is reached and a collapse is imminent. In an environment beyond the state/tribute/tax/debt one can not find societies that produce additional GDPs. That's anarchy. No state - no economy, but self-sufficiency. |
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Now, whether or not what we have can rightly be called capitalism is another question entirely.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495527.msg5656763#msg5656763Zarathustra is conflating the ill effects of debt and tangible capital (which is actually inertia and liability, not assets) with the gains in prosperity that all arise from technology and human ingenuity. His assertion (I deleted the nonsense post) that knowledge can't prosper in a decentralized society (a.k.a. anarchy) is unfathomably incorrect. It is so incorrect, that he should not be included in the discussion here, because it is just noise which buries the important discussion in this thread. Right, he is confusing increasing gains along shrinking measuring stick (fiat money) for prosperity. You can't find 'increasing gains' within an anarchist, stateless environment: Increasing gains (vulgo: destruction) start as soon as you collectivize/civilize these free people and 'educate' them at the institutions of the collectivists. |
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Now, whether or not what we have can rightly be called capitalism is another question entirely.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495527.msg5656763#msg5656763Zarathustra is conflating the ill effects of debt and tangible capital (which is actually inertia and liability, not assets) with the gains in prosperity that all arise from technology and human ingenuity. This is Fiction and Theology. Fact in the real world and history is this: anarchist, debtless communities do not increase production and productivity. Collectivist societies do. You are a collectivist. You are trying to maintain the society (collectivism), which is a world of doing business with aliens. It is the opposite of anarchy, which is self-sufficiency in a world of self-sufficient communities, which means: no business and no labor division with aliens. A decentralized society is still a society (labor division). It is not anarchy, which is self-sufficiency beyond labor division with aliens. You don't understand the role of debt. Debtless humans don't suffer from productivity gains. Debtless humans in the rain forests nearly live still the same life style as 100'000 years ago. Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest. There is no such thing as a 'knowledge production' in an anarchist environment. Knowledge production is at least hundred fold slower within anarchist, debtless, stateless communities than within indebted, collectivist societies. Historic fact against theologic fiction. Start your education in anthropology and the difference between non-growing communities (anarchy) and rampant growing societies (patriarchy/collectivism), instead of posting theologic nonsense about your idol: progress, which in fact is destruction by labor division (collectivism) |
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Malthusian nonsense. I wrote about why Malthusians are always wrong:
No, Tainter; and historic fact. Diminishing return on additional investment in additional complexity until the tipping point (vulgo:the end of the society). That is socialism debt capital, not knowledge work capital. You conflate the problem with the solution. You don't understand the role of debt. Debtless humans don't suffer from productivity gains. Debtless humans in the rain forests nearly live still the same life style as 100'000 years ago. Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest. |
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