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Interesting that we all ready have a bit of volume today. It does seem like there are more buyers out there than I originally thought. But if the selling starts, like yesterday, they just greatly outnumber the buyers and down she goes.
So, to think, what is that price? I'd say it is above $50, closer to $70/$85 but that is hard to predict. We have to watch where we settle and the corresponding volume. The low volume we have seen for a while now always worried me.
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Back to 103. Faith reestablished.  Bitstamp at $98... perhaps they are in the future... And a $3 Spread... |
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All that red and I check the price on Bitcoin.de... down 1 Euro and change. The Germans are so relaxed. |
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Clarmoody died on me.
Panic!
Still up for me, but MtGox Live's price is frozen, but the graph is still moving. A bit of condolence..  |
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Is there something I don't know? No reason the price should be going down further... oh well.
I was thinking that as well and can only come to one conclusion: panic selling based on nothing. People STILL do that? Seriously? Do you see how heavy the sell orders have been piling up? (I don't mean sells, just the sell orders have been passing the buys at equal price increments on either side). I think they are getting antsy and this low volume is scary. The chart (which I know you can'T depend on with BTC) doesn't exactly look good. So, the TA guys are more inclined to sell than buy. |
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Interesting, there is a bidwall of 3000 on Gox at 105.
And a mini one on Bitstamp still of 700 or so.
I think that's called wishful thinking. Huh? http://mtgoxlive.com/orders |
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Interesting, there is a bidwall of 3000 on Gox at 105.
And a mini one on Bitstamp still of 700 or so.
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It's easy to prove you were right if something happens tomorrow without revealing so called "insider information" today. Create a document describing what's going to happen, and upload the hash to blockchain. This way we can verify that cause of the crash was known to you before. Otherwise... you know. GTFO  That is a really interesting use of the Blockchain. It is like mailing a letter to yourself, but a bit more secure. I'm naive here. Once the hash is on the blockchain, how do you unlock and share it? Or? A hash is a different thing entirely from encryption. A hash takes data and scrambles it. It will always scramble the same data the same way, but there is no way to recover the data from the hash. By publishing the hash you establish that at the time of publication you had access to the data. When you later reveal the data, the hash can be verified. Got it and thanks for the explanation (and to you others guys who jumped in as well). I know I heard that on a podcast but it skipped me. Anyway, wow, what a nice way of verification. |
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There were times, where there price diff between Bitstamp and Gox was around 5 $ over a longer timeframe, happened in both directions. And I remember a time, where BTC-E was about 10 $ cheaper. But nevertheless, the price movement was about the same. I think Gox leads, but I've never seen anything crazy where Gox could have followed, but didn't. What really impresses me are larger sells and buys, where it seems it directs to one single person. For example the huge buy on sunday which happened on Gox, but Bitstamp instantly followed, which either implies the big guy is active on both exchanges or many smaller buyer followed that one buy. I guess, I can only speculate about what really happens. A nice experiment would be to seperate two or more groups of (many) traders, give them the same data to start and see, if they would behave in the same way, but without knowing how the other group does. Both outcomes (they end up with the same result and or not) would tell much about the markets and trading altogether. Any trader is probably looking at both exchanges. I would imagine if one had a decent position on Bitstamp and saw a sell off on Gox, that they might unload before others do. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy as well as just being a copy cat, for lack of a better word. ehehhe |
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It's easy to prove you were right if something happens tomorrow without revealing so called "insider information" today. Create a document describing what's going to happen, and upload the hash to blockchain. This way we can verify that cause of the crash was known to you before. Otherwise... you know. GTFO That is a really interesting use of the Blockchain. It is like mailing a letter to yourself, but a bit more secure. I'm naive here. Once the hash is on the blockchain, how do you unlock and share it? Or? |
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It is the only way to go, then they will reset all the worlds debts, introduce a digital coin or modify Bitcoin to where it's centralized, get rid of physical cash, and chip your butthole into the new world order.
This they that you speak of, is it the same they who are responsible for the current problems? Something tells me that isn't going to go over real well... same they, the crash might have already started Japan nikkei is having wild 600 point intraday swings. The Nikkei has always been volatile but this is still ridiculously volatile. Other world markets are in confirmed downtrends some are in bear markets, Greece and Japan, now it's the US turn to follow. If we don't get another massive QE pump the collapse may have already started, before year end. I knew you knew the they... (see below) The thing that is not 100% clear to me is how do the markets drop if they are pumping them full of money, in two ways really: 1 - The artificially low interest rates make many savers (e.g. Japan, Germany, US, etc.) move money to the stock market - This adds to the building bubble. 2 - Banks are moving their money into assets (e.g. stock markets). Now, how can that not be enough money to keep the markets going? Who is selling so much? It seems like the government is pumping the markets and thus allowing people with lots of shares to maybe start exiting before the crash? It isn't common Joe doing this. Anyone? Basically by inflating the markets this way it creates a false economy that is not in line with actual supply and demand, since the supply is artificial. Imagine a game of Monopoly. The banker just gives you money from the box for the asking instead of making you actually earn it, which itself is paper and inherently worthless and more can be printed at any time. You use that money to buy houses and hotels to put on your properties also bought with this money. The problem is you can overbuild past demand because you can just keep getting more and more money. This creates an artificial economy. Building hotels on properties without any actual demand or need for them soon makes them insolvent as no one stays there. Soon the loans need paid back, and there is no rent coming in for these properties you built. You default on the loan, the bank has to add it to a mounting pile of unpaid debt. Otherwise called "insolvency". Soon your wive leaves you, you lose your house and become homeless, and probably use what you have left to start a drug addiction. China has been doing exactly this, however they are building entire cities that are inhabited by no one and give nothing back to their real economy. The building keeps people employed, and construction businesses alive, and commodities markets alive to provide the raw materials. Without large bank loans to fund this construction, it would all grind to a halt because these cities are not generating any revenue to repay the loan needed to create them. 50 million workers would no longer have jobs, and the economy takes a serious hit when the reality of supply and demand snap back in line with how it really is. Businesses close, commodities markets bust, stock market goes down in flames, etc. This is in the process of happening right now. This is going on all over the world thanks to Bernake's money press pumping funny money into the system constantly just to keep it all moving. There is no demand for the supply, because the supply is being driven by money that is created out of thin air and given away as credit instead of spent by people with a need for a service or product. You can see how Bitcoin solves this by not allowing this kind of debt as our fractional reserve fiat system does, as Bitcoin essentially acts like a loan made in cash only, instead of a theoretical liability for the bank that can always just get more of the FEDs endlessly printed currency backed on absolutely nothing. As these markets start to burn bright, Bitcoin can swoop in and save the day, just like Cyprus. Thanks for the thorough explanation. What is happening to PE ratios during this time? I mean are things getting back to the Internet bubble valuation days? The interesting thing, which you alluded to, is that we the people are not really getting any of the money. It would be great if, like Max Keisser said, instead of giving the money to banks, they used some to raise the minimum wage rate to $20 hr. I just wonder how long this can continue? Bernanke said that they are going to ease up on QE. But if they touch interest rates, things might go BOOM. The USD will probably not fail before some other currencies go though. They (we) are between a rock and a hard place, more like between two pieces of depleted uranium... |
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That wall at 108 looks like manipulation to me. If a person with that many coins really wanted to sell on Bitstamp he would do so by smaller amounts over a period of time. By putting a massive wall there you just scare people away.
Yes, clearly (you would think). I was just mentioning that in a thread I started on a video of manipulation. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232962.0 |
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Bitstamp in trouble.   I noticed that mini wall there before and didn't think it looked good. Since then the price came down over a buck. In the grand scheme, Consider we have 3 or 4 exchanges sharing the trading evenly. What happens when only one exchange gets hit hard with a sell for example and drops the price? Do others follow, are they unaffected, does the original exchange adjust back up, etc? With all the volume on Gox, it is sort of leading the pack in a variety of ways (psychological influence, price, etc.) edit - That wall is closer to 700 coins. |
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It's ok, I even typed things a bit slower than normal.
Such a gentleman When you think back to my reply (which was trying to just present the information you left out) and then your reply and your then follow up, it is sort of ironic, no? Anyway, the moving up of bid walls can easily be construed as manipulative when they are followed by a dump. [/quote I suppose it is yes, although unintentional. I can see how it can be construed like that though. Do you believe that it is quite a common market practice? (Not specifically BTC) Yeah, I wasn't trying to give you a hard time with my original reply. I think it can be done with low float "stocks" easier. Things with high volume require absolutely huge amounts of resources to manipulate. Again, I'm not saying a "wall" is manipulative. I mean if somebody wants to sell 1000 in one drop, that is their perogative but it would be MUCH better to do so slowly and not frighten people away (unless we are in super bull mode). But when you watch the video (which is at higher speed), and you see the walls being moved up as the price slowly moves up and yet never really getting close enough to buy, always staying at arms length... Why the heck would someone do that? That basically "means" they are slowly chasing the price to buy and are two steps behind constantly? Just buy at the price or keep your bid there, don't follow the price up. They are not following the price up to buy, they are doing so to put pressure on the price and buyers that want in. If you read more of that guys tweets, it is clear he knows a lot about price movements. I didn't know all that he said however. The video put into a picture what the "wall thread" often spoke about but I never gave much thought to. And that is - walls can easily be used to manipulate price (but they also get bitten). What this all means? Time will tell, but his semi-closing comment is that due to this guy often moving the price up like that, we are overvalued and should be at $93 (I have no idea.) |
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It's ok, I even typed things a bit slower than normal.
Such a gentleman [/quote] When you think back to my reply (which was trying to just present the information you left out) and then your reply and your then follow up, it is sort of ironic, no? Anyway, the moving up of bid walls can easily be construed as manipulative when they are followed by a dump. |
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I'll be Win or Fail tomorrow, so I'll state my reasons and evidence then.
Come on, give a hint... All U.S. and most EU BTC business will have to require Account Verification. I'm Split: On the one hand that can be a good thing in the sense we know we have to go down the regulatory path? (Somewhat anyway). On the other hand some people might exit and start a drop. Sort of like we are a frog and the government is starting to slowly boil the water...  |
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@TheEmperor
I don't really think you got the point of the video. You didn't mention the bid walls that were progressively moved up, sort of channeling the price action and directing it in a certain direction. With the video going faster, you could clearly see the bid walls being moved up. Now, it doesn't always work, but if you are looking to buy and someone has a bid wall and you want some, you just put your bid above theirs. Enough of this walks the price up on lower volume.
IAS
I clearly misinterpreted what was being displayed in the video. Thank you for pointing this out and clarifying clearly and concisely for me. It's ok, I even typed things a bit slower than normal. |
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And another hit for the Nikkei today, currently at -6.35%, ouchh.
There have been 4 or 5 substantial drops. Those drops I think have been around 12, 7, 6 and 6 percent? Something is just very very wrong there. Since not long after Japan listened to the FED about Quantitative Easing. Seriously, these banks are just trying to start a collapse. Funny, they want to get people to stop investing just in bonds, so now some invested in the stock market and look what has happened.  |
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