Buy a miner and mine your own bitcoins OR some some highly convertible good for bitcoins say something like gold coins.
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Why not give it a shot given how well ixCoin has held up over the past 6 months compared to all the other alt coins. It got pumped later than others but it has lost 80% of its value against Bitcoin. Amazing. Hell if you just gave me your Bitcoins I would promise to give you back 50% to 75% in two months and that would be a superior "investment".
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So you only lost half your Bitcoins in the last two months? What a trading genius. We can all hope to do that well someday. Too bad for all those people who simply held Bitcoins they now only have 100% of the Bitcoins they held.
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address the point I made here From a formal point of view, it shouldn't make a difference, [...]. However, keep in mind that the valuation of any object is determined by the market, and I am not at all sure if the idea of the number of subunits tending towards infinity will not affect the valuation of the base unit.
Simple. It doesn't. People ALREADY spend fractional Bitcoins. Do you believe that making smaller gold coins will devalue gold? Do you believe that eliminating the penny will raise the purchasing power of the dollar? Of course you already know the later two examples are utterly stupid. Nobody would think that. Nobody watching the news and hearing the penny is going to be taken out of circulation will for a second think that makes their $1 bill worth more. However you believe that the reverse is true and those people will exist in such numbers and with such purchasing power to effect the market to a significant degree. Well if it does happen I will welcome it as it would be a flash crash which transfers billions of dollars of wealth from the stupid to the at least marginally intelligent. I am not going to hold my breath being able to get cheap coins though. Still if you believe that fine but you haven't shown any proof that this "dubious thinking" has affected any other markets ever, however somehow (because you want it to be?) Bitcoin will be different. Still if you are really worried, the good news is I seriously doubt Bitcoin will need to expand the precision in our lifetime (if ever). It would require a hard fork and if enough people believe the nonsense in this thread then there will be enough resistance that no consensus and thus hard fork will occur. Even under a "one coin to rule them all" scenario it is dubious if 8 digits will prove insufficient, under any other scenario a satoshi will have such little purchasing power there will be no need for further subdivision.
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I think that would be a horribly bad idea. Bitcoins are fungible. 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin. All functional currency must be fungible. Blacklists generally are nothing but fail and this is no exception.
I'm not suggesting it as an idea. I'm asking if there was a way of prevent those coins from being used. I'd rather have that bad blacklisting system, then to ruin the deflation system and random people getting tons of coins. It wouldn't ruin the deflationary system. The money supply hasn't changed, there will never be more than 21M BTC. Nobody says purchasing power can't decline even in a deflaitonary system. Gold prices for example have both risen and fallen over large periods of time. As far as random people getting a large number of coins well that has already happened. They are called early adopters. The system doesn't care, the initial distribution is just that INTIIAL. Unless people want to die poor with lots of coins they will spend them on goods and services creating a secondary distribution.
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putting lost coins into miners blocks is a good thing actually
It's good for the miners, but not anyone else. #1, you can't identify lost coins. All you know is that they're not yours. #2, even if you did know that they're lost, they're still not yours. miners are good for the bitcoin protocol - without them your bitcoins would be worth close to 0 coins that' haven't moved for say 50 years ARE lost coins. by nature. Not on "my Bitcoin network" and you need a consensus of users to make a hard fork. It is a bad idea, and it will never happen, but that doesn't mean someone discovers it as a "new" idea every other week. please tell me why recirculating coins that haven't been moved in 50 years is a bad idea? logically please. Bitcoin is a social contract. People value it because they trust it. People adopted it knowing the "rules". One of those rules is that transactions are irreversible and stealing the output of a transaction AFTER THE FACT is theft. Pure and simple. You can justify it, you can rationalize it but it is theft. If the Bitcoin social contract is broken, people won't trust it and when they don't trust it the value or utility will fails. Furthermore even if it WAS a good idea 50 years (artificially chosen by you to make the idea more paletable) is just silly. If Bitcoin can exist and even thrive without redistribution for 50 years why would it suddenly need it after 51 years. The reality is it won't. So the 50 years will probably someday become 30 years or 20 years, or 10 years. The more people start changing the rules after the fact the more confidence that will be lost in Bitcoin. If you can change the "transactions are irreversible rule" why not also change the number of coins that are minted rule, or maybe help the governments of the world and change the nobody can stop/prevent/block transactions rule or the users are psuedo anonymous rule. For this reason it doesn't matter how wonder you believe the idea is many people will never accept it and many who may be neuatral on it will never support a hard fork with anything less than near unanimous support for the massive chaos and value destruction such an event would cause. Now if you start an altcoin which has a x year use it or lose it provision I still think it is a dubious idea but you have created it up front. If users adopt that currency they know (or should know) the rules up front and there is no ex post facto change.
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I think you are missing the point. If ECDSA is degraded we likely will see a hard fork which introduces a new "higher security" address. A lot of users will move their coins, some may not, and those who addresses where the private key is lost can't be moved. In time the academic vulnerability will become economically viable and the unmoved addresses will be cracked and the coins "recovered".
The timeline might be measured in decades, you might not even see it before you die but never is a long time and it is at least probable that on a long enough timeline it will happen.
I understand your concern. I don't know if there could be a way of identifying such coins/addresses and making the blockchain blacklist them or something in the future? I think that would be a horribly bad idea. Bitcoins are fungible. 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin. All functional currency must be fungible. Blacklists generally are nothing but fail and this is no exception.
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putting lost coins into miners blocks is a good thing actually
It's good for the miners, but not anyone else. #1, you can't identify lost coins. All you know is that they're not yours. #2, even if you did know that they're lost, they're still not yours. miners are good for the bitcoin protocol - without them your bitcoins would be worth close to 0 coins that' haven't moved for say 50 years ARE lost coins. by nature. Not on "my Bitcoin network" and you need a consensus of users to make a hard fork. It is a bad idea, and it will never happen, but that doesn't mean someone discovers it as a "new" idea every other week.
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Regardless of what you remember (selection bias), the chart doesn't lie. It has been a slow and continual decline against the bitcoin for the past 45 days. Anyone who listened to you lost a ton of bitcoins.
On 9/28 it went over 0.2 mBTC (at least partially due to some idiot trying to buy up 5% of the coins). Today it went under 0.04 mBTC. That is an 80% decline in 45 days, not much better than all the failed altCoins you love to trash. Moving 80% against the reference chart over a period of 45 days isn't considered "tight correlation".
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Even factoring a 500% increase in difficulty by mid-march 2014, you are still looking at $160 a day with Bitcoin at their current price in the $390 range.
500% increase in 4 months looks quite low. It is around 50% per month. The math irony. 1.5^4 ~= 5.0 Still I think the long term hashrate growth will be more than 50% but your statement actually confirms the OP claim.
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The chart is over a month period. It didn't fall 70% in any single week. It has been a near continual slide for the past month (more like two months). Even today it is down 15% or so against the Bitcoin despite Bitcoin rallying. Pretty much if someone bought at any point in the last month based on your "correlated to Bitcoin" nonsense they lost money.
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First: OP is possibly trolling.
Second: I'm nonetheless surprised by the response in here, which universally seems to say that increasing divisibility cannot possibly alter the valuation of each "individual" bitcoin.
I'm not sure it's that simple. Time for a thought experiment.
Let's assume, instead of a fixed number of decimal places, i.e. a fixed degree of divisibility, divisibility is permanently growing, say: 1 additional decimal place per day; each day, the number of sub-units increases by factor 10.
Does this still not influence the valuation of the base unit?
From a formal point of view, it shouldn't make a difference, I suppose (although I suspect calculating future values of the base unit, which necessarily equals the sum of the subunits, might become more difficult). However, keep in mind that the valuation of any object is determined by the market, and I am not at all sure if the idea of the number of subunits tending towards infinity will not affect the valuation of the base unit.
Thought experiment over.
Nobody proposed that divisibility should increase constantly, of course. But I propose that, if the market had reason to believe that divisibility could be increased at will, it might after all have a similar reaction as in my 'infinite divisibility' scenario above.
Very interested to hear your thoughts on this.
No. Bitcoin could support infinite digits using floating point numbers. This would probably be bad for a lot of technical reasons but it doesn't change the value of the whole units. 1.0 = 1.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00 Most gold coins are minted in 1 oz down to 1/10 oz denominations. With improved technology it would be possible to mint smaller coins say 1/50 oz or 1/200 oz coins. Would a 1/200 oz coin on the market make the price of gold fall? The US government currently issues pennies as the smallest sub unit of the dollar. As a cost saving measure say they ended the penny (as other countries have already done). The divisbility of a dollar would be reduced by a factor of 5x from 1/100th of a dollar to 1/20th of a dollar. Do you think that would increase the purchasing power of a dollar? Would you expect prices on the shelves fall to 1/5th their current price?
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The idea that there are suddenly more units is just a red herring.
Of course that was the intent of the OP. He has jumped from one reason why Bitcoin will fail to another. Strange how much time he spends on a forum devoted to the thing he "knows" will fail. A troll is as a troll does.
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This is going to be bad.
It is going to be a long 6 weeks waiting.... Now I know why the KNC thread is 1200 pages. I'm seriously interested if someone who did this wafer-to-chip business for a living can estimate how long it takes to do it in California. Amazing how much spam and few usable info is in this thread, a day has passed since this picture is published and not single one trustworthy estimate is posted. I haven't been in the industry for almost 20 years but here is my take, the time for packaging depends on the complexity of the package, the number of dies/wafers but it shouldn't take more than 7-10 days. It probably can be done in less than that for a small premium run but I don't have any knowledge of that. CA shouldn't be any slower than anywhere in the world. It probably more expensive than China but not any slower. However my understanding is the substrate which is a component in the packaging is delayed so packaging house can cut the wafers into dies, and possibly do some testing, but they can't complete assembly into final chips until the substrates have arrived. The packing house provides the "labor" (using expensive IC equipment) to cut wafers into dies and assemble them onto substrates, do all the internal wiring, and attach a heat spreader. Essentially: fabricated wafers + substrates + other minor components + services of packaging house = final chips.
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So, that extra module that I've ordered. Can I run it with anything else but the main control boards? Let's say rPi?
Please advice.
It would appear not, not without some detailed internal documentation on how the host communicates with the modules which I don't believe KNC has released. The higher level operations are handled by a BeagleBone Black which you can buy off the shelf for $40 however the BBB doesn't connect to the modules directly. The BBB connects to a "communication board" which has the 4 (or 6 ports) and more importantly an FPGA running unknown firmware. Without that board or the ability to reverse engineer it you likely are dead in the water.
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Quantum computers will probably never be able to do that.
Never is a long time. Still even without quantum computers if a flaw is eventually discovered that degrades the security of ECDSA, coins may eventually be "recovered" with sufficient amount of computing power. That's why we have developers. Anything can be prevented/fixed. I think you are missing the point. If ECDSA is degraded we likely will see a hard fork which introduces a new "higher security" address. A lot of users will move their coins, some may not, and those who addresses where the private key is lost can't be moved. In time the academic vulnerability will become economically viable and the unmoved addresses will be cracked and the coins "recovered". The timeline might be measured in decades, you might not even see it before you die but never is a long time and it is at least probable that on a long enough timeline it will happen.
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I'd say such a bubble can only happen in early stage of development, because of the mystery surrounding it and not many people can truly understand it. But not so early that only a few thousand people knew about it. So in 2009 was housing not in a bubble or was the concept of housing in the early stage of development with only a few thousand people aware of the "new technology" of using walls and a roof to protect humans from the elements? Sorry man but outside of the standard daily trolls, that has to be the silliest thing I heard today.
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Let's say we're stranded on a desert island. I have a cheeseburger and you and 3 other guys are very hungry.
After negotiating for some time, it becomes clear that you all want the cheeseburger, and you're willing to trade every possession on your person for it. I, being the generous guy that I am, decide to cut it into 4 equal pieces and trade one to each of you, for 1/4 of your original offer.
The 3 other guys immediately agree to these terms and begin scarfing down their share of the burger. You, however, insist that I now have 4 burgers, so the burger as a whole is worth less, and refuse to pay the price (which you just a moment ago agreed to).
I sell the remaining piece of the burger to one of the other guys and you die of starvation.
The end.
Um... You'd starve, too. He didn't tell the others the island wasn't uninhabited and on the other side there was a burger stand. Actually it wasn't a very good metaphor and OP will likely use that as "proof" he is right. That is what trolls do.
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The dat file with only 19 keys actually works loading with the bitcoin client. Is there anyway to check if it contains any money without having to sync the bitcoin client?
You could export those private keys. I can't remember if pywallet will export the address along with private key but if it doesn't you could use something like bitcoinaddress (offline) to generate the address from those private keys. Then just check the balance of the 19 addresses on a site like blockchain.info.
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