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3461  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: E-Pickaxe question and more on: November 13, 2013, 03:06:07 AM
Never heard of them.  Probably a scam.  Search this forum and see if anyone has done business with them here. 

Caveat emptor. It is insaney easy to make a website promising someone the moon and once they pay Bitcoin there is no getting them back.

How did you learn of them?
3462  Economy / Services / Re: Pizza Galaxy Get Your Pizza Cheap Today!! on: November 13, 2013, 02:59:16 AM
So what does this have to do with Bitcoin?
3463  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Sierra Overclocking on: November 13, 2013, 01:41:02 AM
Cooling below dewpoint is generally not a good idea.

I know this is OT for this thread, but I wanted to ask...

I have a stack of Avalons that lives on my outdoor deck.  A roof protects them from rain and such, but they are fully exposed to the outdoor temperature changes, which get down below freezing at night this time of year.

Am I likely to have dew issues?

Maybe.  Winter is probably less of an issue.  The relatively humidity is lower (cold, dry air) so there isn't as much water to condense out.  If you get condensation (more likely in Spring) it will be because the roof is colder than the dew point and water condenses out of the air and drips onto the rigs.  If the heat from your rigs keeps the underside of the roof higher than the dewpoint then there isn't much risk.

If you can change the setup from a roof with open walls to an enclosed box that keeps the temp of the air inside the box above the dew point the chance goes to zero.
3464  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: electricity costs? on: November 13, 2013, 12:00:57 AM
OP might also find this interesting:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279.0
3465  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: November 12, 2013, 11:53:59 PM
Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It is kinda sad.  The miner sub forums at one time were a place to experiment, today it if you deleted every post which deals with return on investment it would be a ghost town.  I wouldn't do anything today.  The "daily value" of a new rig is still too high.  The downtime and potential for problems are more expensive when the revenue rate is this high.  In time difficulty will go up and what a rig makes per day will go down and then it will make more sense to experiment again (you have less to lose). 

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.



3466  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: electricity costs? on: November 12, 2013, 11:48:14 PM
The next generation of ASICs should be even more efficient though.

And difficulty will be even higher to compensate.  At 10x current difficulty a 0.8 J/GH 28nm chip will use the same amount of power per BTC as an Avalon does now.  The network is self adjusting that way.
3467  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: November 12, 2013, 11:46:49 PM

Wafer = Substrate ??

No.  Wafer is the uncut silicon.  The wafer is cut into individual dies (about 1000 per wafer).  The dies are then attached to the substrate (4 dies per chip in this case) and enclosed with a metal "lid" to form a single chip.




3468  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: electricity costs? on: November 12, 2013, 11:41:43 PM
It depends on what hardware.

On a CPU, GPU, or FPGA they will consume more power than the BTC is worth.

However ASICs are a different story.  Looking at an "inefficient" 1st gen Avalon rig it uses ~ 8 J/GH.
Difficulty today is ~510 million.  So it takes on average 2^32 * 500M / 25 = 8.76 *10^16 hashes to create a bitcoin (25 BTC per block).  This assumes no stale shares, hardware errors, downtime, or pool fees.
At 8 J/GH that is 700,938,662 J or 194.7 kWh (3,600,000 J per kWh)

If we assume the average miner pays $0.10 per kWh, then using an Avalon rig would require ~$20.00 in electricity to produce 1 BTC.  That is just using the dificulty today, most people believe the difficulty will go much higher, probably to triple or quadruple the current value by the end of the year.  That would mean ~$80 per BTC using an Avalon (@ $0.10 per kWh).  The factors for the elecctrical cost of one BTC are efficiency (J/GH), electrical rates (USD per kWh), BTC exchange rate (USD per BTC), and difficulty (determines # of GH per BTC).  

With future not yet delivered hardware (highest 28nm specs) and $0.05 per kWh the cost may get close to $1 at current difficulty, however difficulty will be much higher by the time those devices are available (Dec/Jan).




3469  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Trade big volume of the blockchain for ... on: November 12, 2013, 11:15:07 PM
Unless storage is 0 it will always be about quantity.  Not even sure how quality applies to a concept like the storage requirements.  Still I removed the first paragraph.

You can trade storage for security.  One example is a DHT.  Split the blockchain across 100 nodes and you reduce the requirement per node by a factor of 100.    That probably is a bad compromise to make when dealing with money.  If someone attacks the torrent DHT worse case scenario you download the wrong content (or thinking the content doesn't exist).  If someone attacks a Bitcoin DHT worst case scenario is they trick you into thinking you were paid when you weren't.
3470  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Trade big volume of the blockchain for ... on: November 12, 2013, 10:59:48 PM
The blockchain can't be compressed, however it can be pruned.  Despite all the gnashing of teeth this is why the client change to make tx with outputs below the dust threshold (roughly 50% of min mandatory fee) was very important.   Economical outputs generally will be spent thus there are new outputs added to the UXTO and spent outputs removed from it.   The blockchain may grow exponentially but the pruned blockchain or the UXTO will grow closer to linearly.  So while pruning today may reduced the blockchain by X% in the future it will reduce it significantly more.

I think eventually many nodes will not download the unpruned blockchain but rather just the pruned version or at least pruned only for blocks deep enough in the chain.   Most things can be accomplished with "only" the pruned blockchain even mining and the storage savings are significant.

So you may eventually see three classes of nodes:
archive nodes - complete unpruned blockchain (complete canonical record of Bitcoin since the genesis block).
full nodes - pruned blockchain.
SPV nodes - real time query to full nodes for relevant portions of the blockchain.


3471  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: November 12, 2013, 10:43:15 PM
Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.
3472  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Bitcoin Block Chain too big? on: November 12, 2013, 10:21:58 PM
SSD are subject to Moore's law.  The blockchain is growing slower than Moore's law.

Get rid of block size limit and blockchain will start growing faster than Moore's law. Mass adoption and 1 Mb limit are incompatible each to other. The best we can do is to find Equilibrium.

Not on any decade long scale.  In the short term we may grow faster than that BUT the current transaction volume is a tiny fraction of what current hardware can handle so there is a "cushion" built in.  We could increase tx volume by a factor of 20x and not be limited by hardware.  So if we grow at double (or triple) Moore's law for a couple years it simply eats into that cushion.  There is no scenario where Bitcoin growth can exceed Moore's law on a multi-decade timeline, there are only so many humans on the planet.

In 30, 40, 50 years, the discussion of not enough GBs look as silly as saying "video games will never take off because it in the future they will require thousands of floppy disks".  I bought a 1 GB drive for $300 in 1995.  That would be $300,000 per TB, and in less than 20 years the cost to store 1 TB has fallen to $50.  In 20, 30 years I fully expect the cost to store 1 PB to be <$300.  This isn't ancient history we are talking about just the effect of Moore's law in a single lifetime.

However in the long run most users will use SPV clients.  The security of the network doesn't require 100% of users running a full node, just that a critical mass continues to do so.  Between merchants, , developers, exchanges, service providers, hobbyists, and just die hards who refuse anything less than an equal peer on the network I don't see it being an issue.
3473  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet on: November 12, 2013, 10:08:16 PM
when will they start shipping to batch one customers like me?

HashFast announced a week ago there is at least a three week delay.  That would put it mid Dec.  Beyond that it is all just speculation.
3474  Economy / Speculation / Re: Future price of bitcoin - logarithmic chart on: November 12, 2013, 09:59:50 PM
I can understand the plateau because the amount of miners will decline and mining companies will come into existence to find bitcoins.
This will probably make the trend more based on the technology and less volatile between technology shifts. Mining will slow down considerably.

I wasn't really talking about mining.  Mining secures the network (and introduces new coins into the network) the value of Bitcoin is based on what Bitcoin "can do".  Note "price" may vary from value or utility but only so long.  If price gets too far ahead of value/utility it will eventually crash back down.   Rising value and utility is based on increased adoption and those users doing more with Bitcoins.  If you double the number of people using Bitcoin and double the number of non speculative transactions they each make then the value or utility of the network will go up and with it the continued climb of price against the dollar.  

However currently most Bitcoin users are relatively sophisticated when it comes to technology but as Bitcoin "taps out" that market to continue that exponential growth will require taping into markets with a lot less sophistication.

If your grandmother going to learn how to use the QT client, or deal with pywallet to manually remove tx that get stuck due to incorrect fees settings?
Is a Billionaire going to buy $1B in Bitcoins by wiring a billion dollars to companies he has never heard (MtGox) located in countries he may not be comfortable (BTC-e)?
If a a thousand "casual users" puts 1 BTC into an eWallet and the operator runs away with it  will they all continue to use Bitcoin in the future like a "diehard believer" might?
Are millions (and someday tens of millions) of users going to be able to keep Bitcoins secure form hackers despite being HORRIBLY bad at security and running a Windows OS full of malware because they disable security updates that take too long? 

I would guess the answer is no at least not today with the wallets, exchanges, and service providers that exist.  The bitcoin infrastructure is going to have to improve, it is improving but at a much slower pace than adoption and eventually that will be the bottleneck.  Growth will slow until Bitcoin can be made easy, safe, and painless for the "masses".  I don't care to speculate on where or when that will happen only that there is a good chance it will eventually happen.
3475  Economy / Economics / Re: Could a government supplant Bitcoin? on: November 12, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
Thus as I said, the cartels can take over.

"Can",  I thought it was guaranteed?
3476  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: A couple questions on: November 12, 2013, 08:40:57 PM
I have total 5 mBTC with 15 transactions, is it big enough to not mix this wallet with my biggie BTC that I'll be buying in next few days

It will not be a problem to have them in the same wallet with "big coins".  The coin selection algorithm attempts to minimize tx size.

Of course if you transfer them to a new wallet (or address or same address) you will consolidate them into a single output worth 5 mBTC but it will be a ~3KB tx and thus 0.3 mBTC in fees.  It won't be free but that is the cost of small inputs and now you have a single 5 mBTC output.  Honestly I would't worry about it much but if you want to that is always an option.  

In general if you can control it (a cashout from a pool or exchange) always try to keep your outputs as large as possible.  5 mBTC in 1 transaction is going to be cheaper to use than 5 mBTC in 15 transactions (or 150).
3477  Economy / Economics / Re: Could a government supplant Bitcoin? on: November 12, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
If I offer to pay you a pension which you are solely dependent on of $1 a year, did I stop the pension or not?

Stupid analogy.  What will 41,000 BTC a year be worth in 27 years?  It is entirely possible it will be worth more than the block reward is now.
3478  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Worlds First Bitcoin Tattoo [NSFW] on: November 12, 2013, 08:31:54 PM
she needs to be on the reddit thread.  People will tip her endlessly.

If she didn't sell, the 200 BTC bounty is worth $70,000 today.  Not too bad for getting a tattoo.  I hate tattoos and I might just get one if someone paid me $70K.
3479  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: November 12, 2013, 08:26:58 PM
And see how many people expressed concerns of the over inflated shipping charges. Paying more to ship 3 boards, than to ship a whole Jupiter. Yeah makes perfect sense.

The proof is in the pudding.  The sold out in what an hour?  Now if there were still 190 of 200 unsold and tons of people complaining saying they won't place an order until the shipping is fixed you might have a point.  Not saying it is the best strategy but it worked (and honestly it will probably work again and again and again and ... ok now I am just wasting bytes).
3480  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: COLLECTIVE BITCOIN EXCHANGE INVEST IN 22% EQUITY on: November 12, 2013, 08:23:34 PM
Noobs asking noobs for piles of money with no real business plan. 

This is going to end well.
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