I don't really understand the proof of labour proposal either. If you've ever traded on an exchange then you understand it. Where do you think the liquidity comes from to trade when you're on an exchange ? Not from the blockchain. The exchange creates it for you as a credit to your account. Think of the exchange therefore as a small decentralised economy that could not function without the "flow money" that the broker creates. But exchanges only deal in already existing value. What happens when new value is created ? How does that get monetised ? Where do you get the liquidity for an economy to function on an ongoing basis as wealth is being created ? One way is to simply chalk up the number of "work days" you've done this week on a tree. Those chalk marks then become potential monetary units which can be traded for goods and services because they denominate your own "value delivery" into the economy. (The chalk marks therefore represent the 'flow money' in your micro economy). In the real economy, you get paid a salary - not with money that existed a year ago, but with flow money that is constantly being created and who's liquidity is underwritten by the ongoing societal work in progress. But it needs to have a capital base - thats where your base money comes in. The blockchain tokens. Suffice to say, if one hasn't got a "flow economy" to underwrite with one's shiny new tokens, one ain't got zip in terms of adoption cos thats all base money is good for. Simple "paying for stuff" on the other hand, can be done with numbers in any denomination regardless of blockchain performance or characteristics. Oh wow, that's something else! I think I get it now. That's way on another level. Those guys definitely should try again to get their project funded! The competition for DGBB funds will only get more intense... |
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Sorry to keep coming back to it, but that proof of labour proposal showed the way forward.
People better go back and read it again until they get it into their heads that crypto is real money - not currency - and we're not going to get adoption from people buying sh*t with it. We're going to get adoption from a much more fundamental source - capitalisation of micro economies.
Those two guys understood that. We should too.
OK you convinced me, I'll try to go read it again. Honestly, I didn't make it very far last time as it just could not keep my interest. I ended up just not voting either way on that proposal. Do you have a concise, cliff notes type version that I could read before hand that would help me understand what its all about? The paper is a little clunky with language, but not too bad. My problem was wrapping my head around the concepts because despite being here, my eyes cross when talking about complex financial systems, though I'm slowly learning. Anyway, the discussion thread is helpful too.  Tao, you are The Undeterrable TaoOfSatochi And I don't know about anyone else, but I'm amazed and exhausted from watching your consistent energy in promoting Dash, you're amazing! Sorry I disappeared. Stupid me, I stepped off a step the wrong way, and fell, totally messing up my knees (which are already messed up) and busting my ankle last Sunday. Been in pain, and not up to coming here to talk, but I feel so much better today, and can face the world again, LOL. So hello again all! I don't really understand the proof of labour proposal either. Thank you so much for your kind words! I hope your knee feels better. Mine are kind of banged up, too, from sports injuries. |
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Sorry to keep coming back to it, but that proof of labour proposal showed the way forward.
People better go back and read it again until they get it into their heads that crypto is real money - not currency - and we're not going to get adoption from people buying sh*t with it. We're going to get adoption from a much more fundamental source - capitalisation of micro economies.
Those two guys understood that. We should too.
OK you convinced me, I'll try to go read it again. Honestly, I didn't make it very far last time as it just could not keep my interest. I ended up just not voting either way on that proposal. Do you have a concise, cliff notes type version that I could read before hand that would help me understand what its all about? The paper is a little clunky with language, but not too bad. My problem was wrapping my head around the concepts because despite being here, my eyes cross when talking about complex financial systems, though I'm slowly learning. Anyway, the discussion thread is helpful too. Tao, you are The Undeterrable TaoOfSatochi And I don't know about anyone else, but I'm amazed and exhausted from watching your consistent energy in promoting Dash, you're amazing! Sorry I disappeared. Stupid me, I stepped off a step the wrong way, and fell, totally messing up my knees (which are already messed up) and busting my ankle last Sunday. Been in pain, and not up to coming here to talk, but I feel so much better today, and can face the world again, LOL. So hello again all!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433982.0 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah okay, thanks. That's kinda what I thought.
I've always been a little bit on the fence about it. On the one hand it seems to get some praise from certain media outlets, but on the other hand it seems to get a lot of community disapproval.
Smooth and his cronies are influencing the people that frequent that Altcoin Discussion board. How many lurkers is he influencing as well? I say we move the BCT discussion over there and save this place for announcements and such. Having a stable presence at the top of that discussion board will be key going forward. |
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None of that adoption is going to come from bitcointalk readers. I couldn't disagree more. Well, as you know I'm a fan of diversity. As you were then  Tok, check this out. From the "Why the Dash Instamine Matters" thread, about Dash: Yeah okay, thanks. That's kinda what I thought.
I've always been a little bit on the fence about it. On the one hand it seems to get some praise from certain media outlets, but on the other hand it seems to get a lot of community disapproval.
Smooth and his cronies are influencing the people that frequent that discussion board. How many lurkers is he influencing as well? I say we move the BCT discussion over there and save this place for announcements and such. Having a stable presence at the top of that discussion board will be key going forward. Dash Nation Progress Thread. Let's take back the discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433982.0 |
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None of that adoption is going to come from bitcointalk readers. I couldn't disagree more. This is a major source of information for the cryptosphere. New users to crypto, who may have talents or investment to share, are going to come to this site, and instead of seeing "Dash is a scam, Dash is insecure, Evan Duffield is a scammer", they are going to see a confident Dash Nation making their own identity, being a beacon of professionalism, optimism and progress. We deserve that. We are a great group of people making a great product. Let's make BCT a happy place! A place where we can hold our head up high, as we deserve to. What image would you like to portray to these potential future users of Dash, maybe contributors to Dash one day? They will then have a reason to come here to our ANN. Up until now, Smooth and his cronies have been able to frame Dash's identity in a very conspicuous place, and that's why these myths continue to circulate. To all, please continue to represent us well in this community-based thread. I swear it will pay off. It's already starting to. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433982.0 |
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Smooth and his cronies have basically backed us into a corner here for two years rofwl ! Speak for yourself. They never backed me into a corner. (Nor, apparently Evan). I just invest in what I calculate has a future. I can't even begin to fathom how many people we may have lost out on during the first two years because of this. People with families, friends, skills to give. I think what you're missing is the fact that a monetary medium is not a popularity contest. It either works or doesn't. You're battling battling flies who's argument is already dead and buried and yet dismiss genuine monetary researchers who are trying to open up a secondary monetary tier for Dash. That just baffles me. My points stand. I'm not battling the posters, I couldn't care less about them. I want the lurkers to see all of the information about Dash front and centre on the board, before being influenced by the school-boy bullies. We had no representation on the Altcoin discussion board. That thread is getting a lot of views, and some PMs have already came my way. This DOES matter, my friend. You trollin' me bro? You're supposed to be on my side. Just humor me if you have to... |
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...professionalism on display.... Just to remind you Tao, this is bitcointalk. No monetary medium of worth is going to have its fate decided here anymore than in a beancounting cockfight. All the same I admire your sense of valour Thank you for giving me the opportunity to frame my ideas for starting this. Maybe I'm not explaining myself right. Let me try again. Smooth and his cronies have basically backed us into a corner here for two years. Now you may say who cares, this is only BitcoinTalk, we can succeed in the real world. In my opinion, that's true, but lacks a certain focus. No matter what your opinion is about this site, the fact of the matter remains that it is the largest source of crypto information with the largest audience. When newbies come into the cryptosphere through Bitcoin, they inevitably sign up here. If they start to look to diversify, maybe even contribute to other projects, they look to the Altcoin message board. These are real people, with real talents to offer, and the first thing about Dash that they see is Evan is a scammer, Dash is bad crypto, Dash is insecure, etc. Now some may choose to do their own research, but the vast majority will not. I can't even begin to fathom how many people we may have lost out on during the first two years because of this. People with families, friends, skills to give. Taking back our identity on this site, over all others, is EXTREMELY important due to those reasons. The school-boy bullies won't define us anymore. We will define us through the qualities we know we have here. This will be invaluable to the Dash project over time. BCT matters. We are Dash Nation. Let's take back the discussion. Thanks for all who helped me today. Please keep up the positive posts, and let me deal with the trolls. Fantastic job today. |
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Thanks again to all who are reading this thread and allowing positivity and facts to prevail over spin and innuendo. It's plain to see that Dash is a serious project, a champion of decentralization, the leading candidate to be the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet of Money.
I ask you to join us in Dash Nation.
Cheers,
Tao (Dash Nation Campaign Founder)
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Tok, PLEASE post this on the progress thread!
Ok, posted as you requested, but just before you get too excited because I used the word "tier" I wasn't meaning network tier (aka masternodes), I was meaning monetary tier. A very different thing. A secondary monetary tier is a credit supply (albeit on potentially a 1:1 reserve ratio) levered off the base money supply. (Such as was described in the Dash blockchain budget "Proof of Labour" proposal). (What we trade on exchanges is one such secondary tier. That is a credit tier, backed on a 1:1 reserve ratio by a blockchain deposit). Thanks, Tok. It's the professionalism that you and Dash represents that I would like to display. |
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I do not see SegWit and the lighting network as solutions to scaling at all...In Bitcoin there is a fundamental ideological divide between on chain scaling and off chain scaling. I favor on chain scaling I thought Justus Ranvier put it really well...every feature that bitcoin could adopt is good but you have to ask the question "good for whom" ? I've seen very few people in this whole debate lay out such an informing and unbiased account of all the various priorities. In fact, I'm gonna have to watch that again. Here's the thing that I've been trying to raise more discussion about, both here and in other places: There are 2 aspects to this: [1] - scaling the blockchain [2] - scaling the money supply These need to be treated distinctly and I think thats what confuses people. As far as [1]-scaling the blockchain goes, there's no amount of native scaling you can do that can ever meet the capacity or functionality requirements of a mature economy that uses your currency as a denomination. For example, just take the cryptocurrency exchanges of today. All trades are instant, regardless of the performance of the respective blockchains of the currencies being traded. Another example is retail. Retail is always gonna use "off-chain" transaction handling simply because it's an application in its own right. e.g. a Supermarket has a great big SQL server in a back room (or data centre) connected to the cash tills at one end and the Visa network at the other that's capable of all kinds of stuff that a blockchain just is not equipped for. Things like instant reversals cos your cornflakes got rung through on the other customer's bill, discounts, store card stuff and wotnot. To me, Blockchain scaling and performance is more about consolidating the monetary properties of an electronic asset, not supporting POS networks. Next we have [2] - scaling the money supply. This is more about creating 2nd and 3rd monetary tiers (in the fiat world these are the credit tiers which basically form 80% of the money supply, in other words, the main part of it). These tiers are the "promissory notes" that Justus Ranvier was talking about. Clearly, higher order monetary tiers are instant by their nature (because we're just talking about moving numbers around, not blockchain transactions). Any level of adoption will naturally result in the growth of these additional tiers - thats just how all economies work - so scaling kind of takes care of itself in that respect. Thats why I think the point at which you scale the native blockchain to is largely arbitrary. The thing that's important however IMO is that its universally accessible (in the way that - even though I've got all my money in a bank account, I can always get it in paper notes to hold in my hand if I want). Thats the minimum level of scaling that a blockchain needs IMO. (i.e. that you can access it directly with a wallet client as you can today, without dependency on a 3rd party). Blockchains don't have to handle (and probably will never be asked to handle) realtime commercial trades to any industrial extent, any more than the bank clearing network does today.  Tok, PLEASE post this on the progress thread! You are a gem, and this should be shared. |
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To anyone reading this, i could really use some help and with so many of you appearently viewing this thread i feel like its at least wearth a shot.
Six months ago i posted below cryptopuzzle somewhere on this world wide web and till this day nobody seems to have solved it.
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Hi Qwizzie, I put the numbers in here: http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/numbers.php and got TKB VJKI ZTNI WSK ZSNU RQNBB ZJKRBN UTKRQMThen I put that in here: http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/cryptogram-solver.php and the solution is probably ONE KIND WORD CAN WARM THREE WINTER MONTHS. Hope that sets your mind at ease. (Why post that here?) I'm certain it was to cause me mental distress  It was bugging me for days the last time he posted it so thank you very much for solving it  My favorite part of Dash is our dev team. We have like 17 people on the Core Team, all working on different aspects of the coin and ecosystem. Warren Buffett has always said that he buys the management, not the company. Change management to devs, and it seems like Dash has a pretty solid endorsement there =)
I buy the potential within Dash, its growing in every direction Services on the second tier seem to be getting strong interest. The DAPI is allowing all kinds of things that where impossible for a distributed system not long ago, traditionally centralised services running on a distributed platform. I must say, Stan, I really love your signature. Really provides insight on what used to be allowed to happen here on this board. |
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To anyone reading this, i could really use some help and with so many of you appearently viewing this thread i feel like its at least wearth a shot.
Six months ago i posted below cryptopuzzle somewhere on this world wide web and till this day nobody seems to have solved it.
...
Hi Qwizzie, I put the numbers in here: http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/numbers.php and got TKB VJKI ZTNI WSK ZSNU RQNBB ZJKRBN UTKRQMThen I put that in here: http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/cryptogram-solver.php and the solution is probably ONE KIND WORD CAN WARM THREE WINTER MONTHS. Hope that sets your mind at ease. (Why post that here?) I couldn't even try to figure that out! I guess that's why you guys call me a "dummy"...  |
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Hello everyone. I request a favor from you all. Please help me with the pro-Dash thread I've created on the Altcoin discussion board. Consider it as an unofficial community-based thread. What am I asking for? I'm not asking you to fight trolls. All I'm asking you to do is post there when you can in a positive way about Dash. One post a day would be plenty. Showing all of the lurkers what Dash is all about will go a long way towards showing what Dash Nation is made of, and will take the narrative away from the trolls who have dominated the discussion for two years. Please help me keep that thread front and centre, and representing the Dash community in a positive way on the main discussion board. I hope it's not to much to ask,. Tao. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433982.0 |
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Good morning all. Did you know that Dash has a public Slack Channel? All who cherish crypto competition, progress and decentralized technology are welcome to join the conversation about various topics related to building of digital cash. Please, check it out, we'd love to hear from you! https://digitalcash.signup.team/Cheers, Tao (Dash Nation Campaign Founder) |
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I was content to let this thread die...Thanks for bumping my article, dudes! 17 pages strong.
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That's the beauty of this Smooth and iCEBREAKER, you are doing everything for me! I went away for two hours and that was the best you could muster? I don't have to argue my case, with every post you guys make here you're proving it for me. Anyone with more than a high school education can see that.
You and your cronies have nothing but spin, innuendo and persistance.
Dash Nation has the truth, optimism, progress and decentralized technology.
Evan Duffield is a gentleman and a scholar, a visionary who makes mistakes like anyone else, but who is on another level when it comes to developing. His two year track record in Dash tells you that. He has fixed every one of Bitcoin's problems, and poises Dash well through its decentralized team, tech, governance and funding to be the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet Of Money.
Keep posting. You betray your investment with every post. Every one knows where you're coming from, you're representing them through your demeanor everywhere you post.
I've been nothing but a gentleman to you guys as I'm representing Dash Nation.
As I see it, you have two choices:
1. Stay here, continue to act like schoolchildren. Let me deal with you accordingly, and watch the price of your investment plummet.
2. Leave, and allow Dash to continue defining ourselves, as you have had the pleasure of doing for two years.
Either way, you will not control the narrative about Dash.
I have you in checkmate, but you can't even see it! I can't wait to see where this goes...
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Maybe best put Anonymint back in the sock draw
Believe me, I have zero control over that guy, or less than that if such a thing is possible. He's as irritating to me and other Monero supporters at times as he is to you, but that doesn't change the fact that his insights and opinions, especially the technical ones, are usually correct. He's one good example (of many) why Dash is not going to be the internet of money nor much of anything else. Here's a guy who owns no competing coins at all (other than a bit of Bitcoin) and still recognizes Dash's second rate technology and deceptive and misleading launch, distribution, and promotional tactics. You're fooling yourself if you think that only people with competing interest will look at Dash and see that nearly every aspect of it is a steaming pile of shit. Question: Why does Dash have half the bid order book compared to other coins with one quarter of its alleged market cap (i.e. relative difference of 8x)? Answer: r0ach motel coin effectQuestion: Why is Dash doomed to stagnate and fail long before achieving any status as an "Internet of Money" Answer: adoption incentives destroyed by the instamineOh, that's right. There's another guy (r0ach) who doesn't own directly competing coins afaik and criticizes most or all of them. He also recognizes that Dash is a steaming pile of shit. Fascinating scientific analysis. I'm rapt.... |
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Oh, great! Another school-boy bully shows up! That worked out so well for you last time... You love me, you really love me! I'm getting all teary eyed.
Still threatened by Dash? I thought so.
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