So. Why do you think we need a government?
Who will be there to run ponzis ( Social Security ) and steal public money ( politicians ). Your proposal is insane !  IMHO a police force and firefighters we do need but that is about it. Private sector does EVERYTHING better than shitty public sector money stealers. |
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It makes a difference,
Either they get $3000 from me or $1500 + 2 singles from someone else
I think they will put priority on full–paying customers: higher cashflow
I think this makes sense. |
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What evidence do you have they are using FPGAs ? Most services that are doing this are using Nvidia GPUs simply because the FPGAs / AMD GPUs driver support is not mature enough and "misses" passwords. CUDA is best for these applications. |
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I chose "An IOU" as the best and Bitcoin as the worst.
I hope that is reflected in the results correctly.
I set it to allow 2 votes, so it should. Human slave FTW !
I'm not making moral judgements here. If you think that slavery is indeed the best or worst value density, then it is a choice. I mean if it worked for the Egyptians then why wouldn't it work for me too ? Joking |
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Is this an age verification or an non-American verification quiz?
I see what you did there  |
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It was funny to see all that cautious selling below $6.5. Now they'll have to buy back!
One thing I've learned over the past year, you pretty much always get a chance to buy back below your sell point. If I had sold below $6.5 I wouldn't be worried at all right now. remember every time you learn something the market adjusts itself for it Well, of course you'll note that I'm not selling any of my coins and haven't for a while. Holding out for the block reward and hopefully $10 ? We all are ! |
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Let me get this right : them cheap coolers are only for the core ?
Seems they work good. Do the fans support PWM or just simple 3 pin fans ?
What is cooling the memory / VRMs ?
Reference cards or not ?
Underclocked memory ?
Sapphire 5830 Extreme, no memory cooling from factory, so none used (but heatsinks for RAM were included with this kit). The VRM uses the factory attached heatsink that I left on after pulling off the original fan assembly. Memory is all underclocked on the cards as well. Fans are 3pin or 4pin molex, no PWN support.....just basic case fans @ 90mm. The heatpipes also are 'for real' as I broke one and the card was noticeable HOTTER reporting in CGMiner by over 10c at idle......so they DO work. I have had great luck with these dual-heatpipe coolers @ 90mm as well as the 120mm size on my 6950 that idled at 70 with the OEM XFX heatsink, but now maintains under 60C at full load mining and overclocked. YMMV....but I am using 6 of them and LOVe them. Overclocked, mining, SILENT and COOL running cards. I suppose these won't be suitable for reference ( so no factory VRM cooler and have to buy that separately ) 5870 ( too hot for these to handle I suppose ) ? |
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Dood, it is AML. Once you cross the $10 000 limit it automatically kicks in due to US gov regulations. No US citizen can have more than 10k in foreign bank accounts without filing tax reports, or at least that was something I read in another thread  No solvency issues here, move on  They don't investigate shiat when you send/receive over 10K. I wire 250-300K around for a ship to refuel at foreign ports. It's a simple form(s) that is automatically done by a computer. They just have to file the form. They don't have to hold the transaction to file it, only report it. It's the same thing in the US. Wire transfers are virtually instant. Assuming someone actually processes them. I must regrettably inform you that due to unknown circumstances your sarcasm detector is broken sir ! |
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Agreed. There needs to be an ASIC sub-forum of Hardware made so we can throw all this ASIC trolling into it and shut the door. No troll, just an observation and a simple question. Currently, asic topics have more in common with cosplay fanboys in chicken suits than they do being in an FPGA subforum, with one being fantasy and the other a tangible item that truly exist in our shared space and time. just sayin. FPGAOGTFO!
and gpu?....hahah...who's trollin?...what tar pit you climb out of, dino? The only tar pits I know of that are still profitable for gpu are generally named things like "parents basement", or "under my desk, hidden from boss".
Don't feed the trolls. I actually agree with this ! GO for it please .... |
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What the payout difference and share price difference compared to gigavps's program ? (I haven't been paying attention).
What costs more to purchase, which returns more per payment and which breaks even sooner ? (with all of the recent price changes on the GLBSE)...
Currently BTCMC pays out .015 BTC per share, per month. In the next 2-3 months, we will be moving to a 100% passthrough model, less operating expenses. The farm is running at 48 GH/s at the moment, and will have closer to 55 GH/s within 7 days. 48,000/10,000 = 4.8 MH/s per share. Share price is @ .835, thus buyers are paying .17 BTC per MH/s. Gigamining is all over the board, but assuming 1 BTC, you pay .2 BTC per MH/s there. HOWEVER, Gigamining is simply a bond, with no interest in the underlying assets. BTCMC shareholders have a claim on the salvage value of the operating assets, which is easily $20,000 assuming very conservative recovery rates. My rough calculations show that each BTCMC share is worth .307 in equipment ALONE. Which leaves the buyer paying .535 for the actual hashes. That means they are really paying .111 BTC per MH/s. Far and away the best deal on GLBSE. Make sense? Know what I find funny ? All the miners on GLBSE claiming their company is " the best deal on GLBSE". Can't all be winners, can we ? (subbing) |
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P4Man brings up a lot of valiant points and I wish the community were really listening to him.
@P4Man, can you at least bring up a solution? You will have to define the problem first. If your problem is that BFL is poised to make a killing, then, no, I dont see a "solution". If your problem is that miners will get shafted, then its easy, dont buy in to those asics. If your problem is BFL having a near monopoly on mining hardware for the foreseeable future; assuming BFL are sincere in their projections, then any real solution to that should have gotten started ~6 months ago. Perhaps largecoin or vladimir or someone else will surprise us, but if no one is well underway by now, then, nope, I dont see a solution. I had hoped some kind of s-asic or gate array chip would be more competitive, but apparently thats not the case. One more thing on this. If BFL wanted to play "fair" and make sure its customers dont get shafted, what they could do is auction of their hardware in public auctions (heck, ebay) and sign a contract that clearly states how many devices or TH they will produce per month and per year. That would allow fair bidding and customers could at least guestimate their ROI, assuming no competitor would emerge. OTOH, if BFL wants to maximize their profits, they should still auction off their hardware but in a silent auction, one at a time, delay shipment as much as possible, and not say how many they are selling or will sell. This would pretty much guarantee that every buyer gets hosed. STOP giving them ideas ! Look at bitlane proposing the trade in is not 1:1 and how that turned out ! |
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Another win by BFL.
They could have completely screwed their customers and not offer any trade in so value of single with ASIC coming = maybe $10.
Now this basically ensures the value of the single is at least $300 which is excellent for some who are half way through paying off the unit and want to sell right now and stop gambling.
Is your calculator broken? Since the trade in value is only 50% not 1:1 so 2 Singles cannot be swapped for a SC single but 1 single + 700 USD = one new SC single ? Maybe my head is broken The value of an old Single on the secondary market should continue to hover close to it's $599 purchase price minus shipping and any convenience costs of exchange with whoever wants to buy it in preparation to pick up his SC. When we receive it towards the purchase of an SC, it will be accepted at it's full $599 value. Fair enough, I admit my calculations were wrong. |
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id say the singles are worth 600, there is no premium now that everyones waiting in line for asic's & trade-ins...
and that 600 is 50% down on your asic upgrade.
so they are still worth their $600 bfl price, as they will honer that price they were sold.
Get em, and Wait in line for trade-ins next tax season though... it's my guess they favor the pre-orders and new customer's first, let that die down then do trade-ins...
Yes but anybody that is paying $600 for a single right now will be able to recuperate the costs before reward halving and ASIC coming ( Dec 2012 ) ? No, but they will be able to get a $600 credit towards new equipment. Yeah but $600 CREDIT for equipment ( that can come in 4-6 weeks ) is not = $300 cash right now in my bank account. Just like MtGox USD does not equal USD already in my bank or how cellphone credit does not equal currency in Africa. |
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id say the singles are worth 600, there is no premium now that everyones waiting in line for asic's & trade-ins...
and that 600 is 50% down on your asic upgrade.
so they are still worth their $600 bfl price, as they will honer that price they were sold.
Get em, and Wait in line for trade-ins next tax season though... it's my guess they favor the pre-orders and new customer's first, let that die down then do trade-ins...
Yes but anybody that is paying $600 for a single right now will be able to recuperate the costs before reward halving and ASIC coming ( Dec 2012 ) ? |
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Another win by BFL.
They could have completely screwed their customers and not offer any trade in so value of single with ASIC coming = maybe $10.
Now this basically ensures the value of the single is at least $300 which is excellent for some who are half way through paying off the unit and want to sell right now and stop gambling.
Is your calculator broken? Since the trade in value is only 50% not 1:1 so 2 Singles cannot be swapped for a SC single but 1 single + 700 USD = one new SC single ? Maybe my head is broken |
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Just got a response from Jody. You have to put up 50% of the cost, the other 50% can be trade in. I understand how you are confused. This whole thing has not been explained in detail. If it were a straight trade of old equipment for new our business would fold in a week. Here's how it works: if you buy $599 worth of BFL product--say 4 Jalapenos, you are eligible to send in a Single to exchange for 4 more Jalapenos. You must buy something to be eligible to trade something of equal value. And you don't have to send in your old equipment when you pay for the new--you send it in when you are notified that your ASIC equipment is ready to ship. Does this make sense to you?
Jody I don't know if I believe this post since on the BFL press release it says very clearly --- "Because our first and second generation equipment is expected to be outpaced very quickly by the new hardware, customers who have purchased earlier generation products will be able to trade them in at 100% of their value toward the purchase of SC-generation hardware." It would be nice if BFL would come here and explain this in their own words rather than hear it from a 3rd party. The two quotes are perfectly consistent. Under the 50% trade-in plan, you would be able to exchange earlier generation products at 100% of their value. But in order to do this you have to buy some new hardware too. So, if you buy four of the cup-warmers for $600, this gives you the option to get four more by trading in a single. By exchanging four cup-warmers for a single, you are exchanging the single at 100% of its value. So there is no reason to question the first quote in light of the second. This will cause a very interesting second market to develop for singles. Many big hitters will assign a certain price they are willing to pay for singles simply for the trade-in credit. It will certainly be a discount, but not a massive one. They will be treated as units of barter, and no longer as mining devices......should be fascinating to watch! This is what we imagined in creating the trade in program. The intent is to ensure anyone who has invested in our hardware is able to get their money back should they decide to upgrade or not. With regards to the overall question of the trade in policy terms, Jody's response via email inquiry was correct. We will have the full terms posted imminently, but the breakdown is simple. You can trade regular Single in towards the purchase of an SC Single, but you can't trade in two regular singles to get an SC Single. I know people would rather do that, but it's not a working business model. Another win by BFL. They could have completely screwed their customers and not offer any trade in so value of single with ASIC coming = maybe $10. Now this basically ensures the value of the single is at least $300 which is excellent for some who are half way through paying off the unit and want to sell right now and stop gambling. |
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Face it. BFL have fucked over the entire community without even releasing their new ASIC product.
All it took was an announcement to cause enough FEAR to crash the top Security prices on the GLBSE, the mad PANIC SELL-OFF of Bitforce Singles (over 50 for sale currently that I saw in the marketplace here) and the fight over their VAGUE terms of trade-in....not to mention the MEGA-TROLL against their competition.
THEY HAVE EVERY CURRENT CUSTOMER BY THE BALLS.
Those of you who have paid them your money have been hooked, line'd and SUNK....LOL....as in Hook, Line and Sinker.
They left their trade-up program details JUST VAGUE enough to keep the new orders rollin' in...but I wonder how those new orders will proceed after today or even last night ?
They were forced to reveal info that they DIDN'T want YOU to know and that was the fact that regardless of what BFL product you have, you will still have to PAY for your upgrade, FOR EACH ITEM. No trading in '2 old units' straight across for 1 shiny new one etc.
They want your money and NOW you have NO CHOICE but to keep giving it to them if you own a current generation piece of BFL hardware.
Why so grim ? Why so serious ? ( insert picture of joker with knife and bloody lips here ) BFL is a good company. What should they have done instead ? Currently a single is worth around $300 with the trade in thing. If they did no tradein then it would be worth what ? I bet lower than $300. How many have paid the singles off is the question ... |
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There are several people already jockeying for position, you can probably guess who they are.
I know of 4-5 at least who have regular contact with BFL.
This is not going to end well for the majority unless BFL does an about face and really sits down and starts doing some calculations involving network capacity, difficulty, price, 1st gen asic price and then so on.
I know gigavps and Inaba but otherwise I am in the dark. Care to share the rest ? |
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What PPS pool is that  |
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