By Russia. They, along with the black box, are in Russia. Why is Russia protecting Ukrainian MIG-29's?

I don't think Ukraine ever denied putting Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian territory.

The only point at which technology may start causing issues with money is when we can upload ourselves into machines and share thoughts/consciousness. Not only will immortality change the time-is-money dynamic, but it will be really hard to keep private keys private when everyone can read your mind.

Hahahaha ! That's awesome! The Catholic Church is being trolled hard!

When the original something is replaced, that doesn't make that original something go away. We still have horses and buggies, faxes, gold coins, etc. It's just that we took the success of the previous idea and built on top of it. Failed would have been if horse and buggy system failed, we we didn't have any more of them because they all broke, and to fix the situation we started making more of them with the exact same flaws that the first ones broke from.



That's not what I said.

The main point is that it's like arguing for making 3 legged rectangular tables, having a bunch of them tip over, and then say that three legged tables aren't a failure, because some of them are still standing, and others were replaced with nicer tables. The point is that a three legged table is a failure of an invention; prone to failure; has a failed design. Sure we can keep trying to balance it, but it will still fail as soon as that balance is disturbed.

Some of those problems aren't that serious yet, some are being worked on but aren't ready yet... They just announced a request for beta testers for the next version just a week or so ago. There's progress, it's just that compared to bitcoin world's extremely fast pace, once or twice a year doesn't seem that often for updates.

But bitcoin isn't software, it's a protocol. Open and upgradeable at that.

So, those Eastern Ukrainians were just sitting around, minding their own business, and then suddenly Ukraine rolled in with tanks and soldiers and started shooting everyone? And where is all that Russian aid that they're supposedly providing to the embattled eastern Ukrainians? So far all we've seen is weapons and rockets to shoot down civilian planes with.

By the way, with all this "Western Media" bullshit, you guys are really starting to sound like Islamic extremists.

I triple confirm (unless my account was hacked too).

Both? Note many of us don't support fiat nor democracies.


They were better. It is safer and easier to carry a paper note than gold coins or gold dust. The problem wasn't with gold backed notes themselves, but the lack of trust in people who were issuing them. Plus democracies that realized it's worthwhile for them to inflate money to give it away as social programs, in order for the voters to keep voting for them.



Has the horse and buggy failed? What about the fax machine? Or the musket? Good technologies and ideas survive, and get replaced, but still work. Gold still works. Fail implies "breaks and stops working." If you wait long enough, everything will get replaced by something better, but not everything "fails."

For example, should we assume that communism based economies don't fail, because North Korea, Cuba, and China still exist? Or should we take lessons from history that show every communist country has failed spectacularly, and those that still exist are completely broken, or, as China, have had to change themselves into more of a capitalist system? Also, we actually know the exact mechanisms that cause fiat to fail.

Still being in existence is not proof that they will always be in existence, especially in light of dozzens that failed throughout history, versus the handful that still exist. Many of those that currently exist are extremely new too (Euro is about 20 years old, USD as a fiat is only about 45 years old). Commodity based currencies, on the other hand, don't fail, and just get supplanted by something better.

I don't know about democracies, since some failed and others have just been conquered and wiped out, but empires historically do have a 100% failure rate.

As for wars, that's not just "country was conquered," but likely includes "currency was used by country to pay for war, leading to high inflation and collapse. For USSR, the crappy economy was one of the reasons their currency failed, them printing and spending it like crazy to build up their war machine is another.

Oh, as opposed to "have civilians who are rebels and wish to secede?" When you say "captured by," it sounds like the rebels are imposing what they want on the villages who may not even be interested in this fight. Kind of like how Muslim extremist rebels tend to capture villages in the Middle East.


What makes you think that? What exactly makes you trust the media from other countries, more than the media of the country actually being attacked?

Bitcoin is already worth MUCH more than 1,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars. Who knows. Same thing could happen to the USD.

"Now you may point out that during the later parts of our current industrial period, we stopped using commodity money, and have only been using credit money, and, therefore, the trend is wrong. However, stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalala" *waves hands around* Wooooo... Nothing to see here....."

I'm pretty sure the cost of that insurance premium will eventually rise up to be about the same as the opportunity cost. Cheap credit only means there's going to be MUCH more of it, and as the people keep borrowing, the premiums will go up until they reach the same level people were able to manage when opportunity cost was part of the interest. Then the insurer would be found not to have enough money to cover the credit default swaps (which is what these are), and crash. Like things did in 2008. But I guess the economy would be able to expand a whole hell of a lot more... on borrowed money... like it also has for the last 100 years... or something.

I always thought it was caused by culture. There are poor people all over China, and it seems ok, and rich people all over Wall Street, and they're nucking futs!

Once a Mongolian empire, always a Mongolian empire...  




   What the fuck did I just read? Putin is a frikin socialist oligarch dictator. He is the exact opposite of what bitcoin stands for and supports. Unless you think Bitcoin is intended to turn the world into USSR or something.

P.S. I'm not a paid troll or whatever. I am actually Ukrainian, and I have friends who live in Ukraine, both Kiev and Lviv, including ones that were helping on Maidan. My childhood best friend and his three colleagues were providing Maidan with free internet and wifi, so he saw the protests beginning to end (including where one of his colleagues was shot and killed). My other friend lives and does business in Kiev, and her mom, retired, supported Maidan protesters by taking food and water to them. So I don't get my news from CNN, or RT, or whatever. I get it directly from the people who were there. And having lived in Soviet Union, before it split apart, I know exactly what kind of country Russia is.

Banks and authorities will need money to keep their currencies propped up and bitcoin down. Where will they get that money, if bitcoin starts taking away a whole lot of their revenue?


Tat's true, there's an interplay between inflation, tax revenue, and growth rate of national debt. If inflation and national debt grow at about the same rate, we could go on for ever. ditto for tax revenue. But tax revenue is unlikely to go up (thanks to bitcoin it is much more likely to go WAY down), and our national debt has been growing much faster than inflation. If that continues, either out lenders will not want to borrow any more, because we would have reached the debt point where all we can afford is interest on the outstanding debt, or they will ask us to pay a higher interest rate on any new debt, which would force us to inflate faster to be able to afford that debt, which would in turn make our lenders ask for an even higher interest. If the system was balanced it would work, but it's not, and with our perpetual tax less, spend more political culture, I am not sure it can ever be fixed (what politician would risk cutting programs or raising taxes of his own constituents?)


$150 trillion was just a guess. It may be going up faster or slower, but I wasn't trying to show exact calculations and balances there. Sorry, my bad.

Hah! So now we're turning to the French to ask what is right and who should be supported? The same guys who support the dictator in Chad and other parts of Africa, and who supported dictators in Middle East? You guys are funny  

That's kinda of ironic... your claim is a mistake newbies make too. Bitcoin price doesn't depend on mining at all. It's mining that depends on bitcoin price. Because of difficulty adjustments, bitcoin inflation is fixed (currently BTC25 every 10 minutes). As bitcoin price goes up, mining becomes more profitable and more people start to mine. As price goes down, it becomes less profitable and people stop mining. You can't push bitcoin price up by just mining more and more, because adding more mining power will just push the difficulty up and make mining not profitable any more. And miners can't demand a specific price for their bitcoins on the market, because the bitcoins they produce are a tiny fraction of the bitcoins actually traded, and any high price they ask will be undercut by people who aren't mining.

No. It may have been the reason a while ago, but Cyprus (rise to $266) and China (rise to $1,200) prices rose because people started using bitcoin as a safe store of value, and as a hedge against other currencies and political situations. It's the same reason people and countries store gold. So while some of the price is due to using bitcoin as a money transfer mechanism, speculation and hedging are other major reasons too.