Thanks and yes it certainly is. Thanks to all the testers we were able to greatly improve the client. Its getting pretty ironclad. Most bugs ironed out. Currently I'm working on some font and spacing issues. Its coming along nicely. Should push out a new update soon. Within a week.

I'm still working on BlackHalo. Just finished new Mac and Linux build. Adding cold staking on next update. Lots to do.

I agree on that, it will probably get more volume after pegging imho

Thanks really interesting post. One thing I want to remind everyone here of, we are not promoting Bay but existing software, nor are we pulling at anyones heart strings, or pushing an ideology(except for the occasional opinionated rant such as the one below, and DDE).
Only things being done here is honoring the original agreement to work on the software and complete the tools in this coin as investors were told they would get. And hopefully extending this softwares influence and reach.

And there is an ideology but not one that is being sold per se... and that ideology is making crypto independent. Allowing people to decentralize all aspects of crypto by promoting good ideas. DDE and Pegging. If crypto is to become a tool used for good then those two ideas must survive. Most importantly, DDE must survive. Pegging perhaps being the second most important crypto tool. Notary and smart contracts being the next most important.

Actually I never would claim that Crypto was different from USD. As many people on here who have heard from me in the past, the reason I developed Halo was to protect people from Bitcoin. It was obvious that Bitcoin was a project that would soon lead to more loss of human rights. It was clearly made in a compartmentalized manner, reeks of government involvement. So we only chart our own course, because the tool itself was okay, the divergence is what we want to do with the tool. The destiny of crypto depends not on "which coin will be successful" but "which IDEAS will be successful". Just like a knife or a pen, it can be used in many ways good or bad or neutral. Thus, Halo has the capability to create 2 party contracts where a person could get off of (corrupt government coin) and get on a network that has the ability to form private agreements usurping totalitarian control. At least this was the motive. Another motive was the obvious fact that in an anarchy, only double deposit makes sense.

Although a lot of people think anarchy would result in more crime people tend to forget that the media and almost every film that comes out is completely violent. In fact, oddly enough nudity in movies is censored and violence is not. Every single news piece is propaganda without exception. Almost never do I see "feel good" news anymore. At least in the early 90s, 1 out of 10 stories were feel good. Now its zero.
So with that said, its probable that we are conditioned to think and be violent tacitly and fear loss of government. Which in truth only gives them full control of our minds. Something some of us will never accept.

So with all the technology today, most of the best tech is hidden from the public, and yet decentralization flirts with the idea of a technological utopia of sorts where currencies are private, commodities are 3d printed (including for self defense) networks are meshed and food is grown in a decentralized futuristic way and so forth.

This is why only the idea of DDE must survive. The whole purpose of commercializing this project. To prevent deception using deposits and eliminating third parites who have no business or time or justification to meddle in the affiars of others.

Luckily and ironically, had it not been for Bob and the sabotage, I probably would never have proposed a pegging tool. Its original purpose was to simply protect investors from the bastards that started it. But after lots of discussions with colleagues and friends on slack, its clear that pegging is absolutely needed for crypto assets.

In some ways, it opened my eyes to how important pegging really is. Notice how even projects like Tether get a consistent volume? Pegging is needed, required and its the only tech that GUARANTEES cryptos survival.

This is perhaps exactly why crypto is permanently bullish. In fact, even crapcoins are bullish because of these technologies. Imagine, rolling pegs can make "Truckcoin" and "Elephantcoin" stabalize in value and even rise in value. And why not? Should a person not be allowed to work on a private project, seeking funding and creating value in their own project? If its an honest and motivated project, would their peers not invest in it?
Does it really matter if they premined it? After all people invest in stocks that the board of directors hold almost always 51% favorable stocks. Investors get a mere nothing fraction of the company.

Does anyone remember Enron? Or perhaps the obviously scandalous Facebook IPO. And yet, probably about 90% of the fortune 500 companies fix their stocks and prices. I bet some of the companies don't even exist. Much like some crypto assets.

In the end the only thing that differentiates a good coin from a bad one is the HONESTY of the people creating it. Users or coins are too quick to speculate, trusting "The DAO" or other projects not realizing the probability of deceptions, buying their own coins, stealing bitcoins from the till and taking advantage of peoples trust. Who is to say the "DAO" didn't give themselves tokens to sell or buy their own tokens with the Eth they already had.

This again is why DDE comes first, requiring deposits for trust. Forcing honesty among peers.
Its IS TRUE that most crypto systems are in fact equally corrupt to federal dollars. However, the whole purpose of pegging would make this somewhat irrelevant. If prices can remain stable and consistently match volume and demand then private parties can issue their own cryptocurrencies.

With pegging, its theoretically possible for a healthy market to sustain thousands of different coins, each one being healthy.
And so a coin only needs to be popular since a user of a coin would only need to concern himself with wether or not its popular enough to resell it at the fair market value (which is of course pegged).

Artificial price growth isn't even a bad thing with a rolling peg. If anything its good. A saavy investor would look at the project, its growth potential and popularity before investing in a coin that artificially grows its price.

The one thing that is absolutely painfully obvious is, the worlds corruption comes not from the technology we have access to, but the hearts of men which cannot be changed. Thus the only true "weapon of mass destruction" in this world is propaganda, capable of shaping beliefs. If anyone finds a way to decentralize the media, that would be the best technology on earth. But how to prevent the voice of propaganda, false news, fake coins, fake devs from infiltrating anything?

Dare I say fake math and fake science?! Do people even question what they learn in school? Why is material automatically accepted just because someone in a position of scientific authority deems the material to be honest and true?

If I remember correctly, we learned astronomy in a book, we never were told to watch the sunset. We were not asked to question the material. We learned chemistry in a book. We were given tests where we were not allowed to question the test material. And forced to answer exactly what the books told us or fail the test?!

We are not educated, we are TOLD. And by centralized sources at that. Almost nothing we were taught was true. In most cases, it turns out to be the opposite unfortunately.

Real schools would teach construction, farming, electronics, alchemy, sports, social skills, botany, etc. And they wouldn't use books, but hands on experience, trial and error, scientific inquiry and experimentation and zero assumptions. School would be optional, but everyone would want to go because of how awesome it was. Kids would walk themselves to school in excitement, not in fear.

Kids are smarter than people give them credit for, in their hearts they KNOW school is corrupt/evil, they just aren't able to articulate why their instincts tells them its wrong. Because the material is wrong even deliberately. They know homework is wrong but parents force them to do it.
People question how such a grandiose deception could take place but they overlook the 18 years of FORCED SCHOOLING. A student who gets straight "A" on all his tests, gets perfect grades in college, goes to Harvard is the perfect victim of deception. Because this student didn't even bother to question the material, no they memorized it by heart.

The short answer is "propaganda" and "belief propagation". The greatest threat of all.

The key here is, technology at its core is always good. Even the dollar in theory is good. Its only when people charge interest on money (usury) and when propaganda is used when an idea or theory is corrupted. Fake science, fake tech, vaporware etc.

This is why DDE is so important. To give a way for us to change the paradigm, force honesty in a disingenous world. I'm not saying this will ever happen. In fact, from watching human behavior, I highly doubt it will ever get used.

But this won't stop me from using my own technology in my personal life. It exists, it can be used despite the opinions of wether or not a pair of shoes should be worth 10,000 BAY or .017 BAY. And anyone here who ever wants to make a contract that is harder to break, they have the tool! In BitBay, BlackHalo and BitHalo.

Consider this a rant, from a Don Quixote of sorts which may be referenced somewhere when the smoke clears.

And who knows, perhaps people will get tired of being lied to and finally use the tech. A man can dream.

Now get back to work Zimbeck!! This thing won't code itself.

More or less coins has absolutely nothing to do with utility, volume, market cap or network effect.

Its just a number. What matters is the other elements. Control of supply with pegging is done to eliminate the need for a market maker. To have supply move up and down to match volume and demand.

The us dollar is a racket, so who cares what its value is. Because there are guys who have infinite spending power, so thats why we use crypto.

Yeah i know what you mean... trillions of dollars they are totally worthless, perhaps you should burn them.

Such logic, so fashion, much troll, very crypto

Hint: there is billions of people on the earth, one billion coins isn't much the market cap isnt even 1 million usd

@3r197 dont even get me started on the "DAO"

I mean I'm almost certain they pulled the same trick the Lin+Bob pulled. Consider they claim to raise 100 million but from who?!?

They then immediately have a price drop, does this remind us of a pattern? Yes of course who else would sell below ICO price unless the "DAO"
was bought by Eth devs and other insiders or even worse they kept so many free DAO for themselves.

Instantly it cuts in half in price... not good

Also what does a voting address paid to another address going to do to truly organize a business?

Can the same not also been done with multisig?!!?

Maybe just another example of massive hyperbole, telling people that the blockchain can grant wishes or something... hahaha so ridiculous the claims they make saying what a "DAO" can do. (it even chops your vegetables, mows your lawn and gives you magical powers)

...more cash grabbing by the Eth devs ^

At least Lisk did good, I'm sure a lot of us are happy about that. They were good because they had a proof of existing software before the fundraising (in Lisk) .... unlike the DAO who has no GUI, no software, just peddling dreams.

Azure is acting like a gatekeeper. You can see subtle maneuvering in crypto for sure.

I'm not saying Dapps aren't good but I'm saying the method in which decentralized applications is deployed is not a trivial computer science problem.

If it was that easy they would just start "internetcoin" where they put the entire internet on a blockchain. Which obviously doesn't make any sense.

Etherium sandboxes their code, so does Lisk. Which is good in theory. They could attempt methods of compressing and hashing known bits of code on the chain but in the end there is a bloat issue. Who has this kind of bandwidth? It takes me a half an hour to download a 100 megabyte file. Granted my connection is not that fast but we have to find a peer to peer solution. (maybe a lightning network)

In any case, the critical question remains: Blockchains are about store of funds and notary, what else truly belongs there?

Sidechains are good in theory. But the reason in my opinion they work is because they remove the risk of running some obscure application that could lose your funds to the peers.
So the peers might be able to take the risk instead of the miners and the entire network.

And I'm not sure the best proposal has been put forward yet. Ethereum will be a good test ground for what does and doesn't work.

Regardless, not everything can be on a blockchain because you can't download all of youtube to watch a single video, nor should you be forced to download an entire website to view a single page.
Nor should that burden be placed on all peers to verify if you visited the webpage, clicked on a button and so forth.

There is some fundamentals which Bitcoin is missing that Ethereum does have. For example, a better scripting system. Thats great and I think bitcoins scripting is very limiting. Things like lightning networks, pegging tools like we are doing here, sidechains and even pre-approved contracts(which ive yet to see any coin do)... are all good ideas. Tokens are interesting if you can get courts to honor the notary which i highly doubt.

In any case these are complex computer science problems that are not solved by simply putting everything on a blockchain. Otherwise, there is simply hype for the sake of marketing a protocol. And then the protocol becomes less important that the marketing.

Man you are preaching to the choir. I think its because the market is still obsessed with "pump and dump". People just jump on the "bandwagon" of any new coin. Because they are only hoping to sell it for more than they bought it. Because the market is still driven by greed. Like a game with money in a sense.

People aren't looking at the technology yet. Or else why is Dogecoin top 10 crypto for years? What technological benefit would one gain by holding Doge?

The masses do not see how crypto benefits them (YET)

However there is a hope here that the masses will eventually notice crypto and when they do, it won't be about "Dogecoin" or "Kittycoin", it will be about what can they do with the software and technology.

Most of the people involved in BitBay are early, they know what is being worked on. The key is to help other investors also understand what is going on here and this might be achieved by marketing and finding people who also see the ideology in the project.

As we know, the masses are usually not motivated by ideology so for the rest there is only marketing. Which in the case here might come in phases as the software continues to release more features.

Although we already have so many features! So for now we have more than enough to show others about what the software has the potential to do.

Interesting, but in any case, we would want to open source when complete. If I publish any sort of source other than the OBF package, coders will probably just want to refactor, take the parts they find beneficial and I'm not sure where that benefits us.

Perhaps best to just wait until the software is totally perfect to our liking and then open source.

Dapps are mostly hype. For what reason does an application need to be on a blockchain?

The whole idea that "everything needs to be on a blockchain" is totally ridiculous. I guess when your solution is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Blockchains are for notary and banking and hashing almost exclusively. Apps function fine without existing on a chain and to put apps on a chain only bloats it.

Which is why the whole thing with Etherium is just a cash grab and I refuse to support that level of hype and greed. Regardless of whatever progress they make.
Even if they do develop into a good platform, there will be tremendous bloat issues that can only be solved by centralization. Because they are putting too much on the blockchain.

And they know it.

Lisk has a better approach of sidechains. But why would Bitbay be a sidechain of Lisk? That doesn't make any sense.
Bitbay already exists, what would this accomplish? Except make us look weak.

You still need a blockchain to store value, what difference does it make if its a sidechain? Again, more techno-babble to confuse the masses and take their money.
Sidechains may suffer from less nodes or more regulation from the parent chain.

Sidechains really only are needed for business applications where the user puts risk in the chain because the chances are is the sidechain would be centralized or with fewer peers.
So in that sense I support Lisk and similar concepts to move the risk off the miners and on to end users.

Also, why degrade this project to be some arm of Etherium which has not only proven itself to be driven by greed, and immense speculation but vaporware mostly considering they are overpromising tech
to dazzle the masses. Then repackaging that tech as a dapp and fundraising again. It almosts makes me think that modern business is ONLY about marketing.

Or perhaps we should start "governmentcoin" where everyone can be on one blockchain that is government regulated and your taxes are automatically taken out and you social security is replaced with a private
key and they can deactivate your key if you break one of the 10 million laws they have.

I dont know, please excuse my comment but Dapps are not the future. Decentralized banking is.




In any case, thanks for your kind words, although it might seem like an art, the technology used to do what we do is very complex and requires a lot of work. Much like the engine of a car.

Thanks that means a lot.

Its a lot of work but in the end it could very well be worth it.

I'm going to stand by my convictions that to be anonymous you need mesh networks. Using a custom dish to get nearby wifi would certainly help.

It's already clear that with surveillance peoples first response is to hide. Personally I think people should fight back. We have been reduced to a nation of cowards. People should start doing mesh and forgoing the ridiculous IP protocol. Or maybe millions should storm the Whitehouse haha

By the way all Cisco routers have back doors. And unless you are on a super secure Linux.

And there is no guarantee that the hardware isn't designed with back doors making Linux unsafe. Paranoia has no limits therefore perhaps people should defiantly resist.

I dont use centralized servers for anything how many times do i need to repeat that? I only use one for images fpaste which is optional.

So that is total fud. (if its not then explain where ip leaks in BitBay)

Gold is great but the supply is artificially limited. Govt has 99.99999%. Of the gold.

Best that people find new gold or invest in food and water

And omg that chart ha-ha wow.

Yeah binary options similar to barter in style.

Deposits serve as insurance in a sense disincentive. It should exceed the value of the bet by double since sore losers won't wanna pay out.

Like munti said this is the perfect use case for Python contracts so the option is automated.

Also one last thing, I don't give the option of AE because of all the reasons mentioned. Just the say way I don't encourage any system that is broken by design.

I don't vote, don't want to live on grid, will not support military and generally will never support systems that fail us all.

Lastly escrow is a head ache. It's an entire extra layer. I've got other things to code. I sympathize with the idea but honestly I didn't work myself sick to change society just to encourage the same system I'm trying to replace.

That makes no sense. Escrow is limiting, DDE is not. As DDE can be used in barter, smart contracts, employment etc

Why would we offer both if one is clearly better? Why should users pay escrow fees, deal with potential loss. If they want that I recommend eBay.

There is NO CENTRAL SERVER in DDE. Please i beg you stop just stop arguing about things you don't know about.

There is no "marketplace wallet" what are you talking about? Each peer holds one key to a joint account. Go read my whitepaper from 2 years ago

I've been working on this software for almost 3 years well before Ethereum was conceived. If you argue learn first, don't just talk for the sake of it.

DDE keys and all info is held by only the two peers involved arranged by email or Bitmessage. No blockchain is involved. You can't touch those deals. I don't care if you are the Internet King or nsa. Just stop.

Of course DDE would have prevented all the loss.

And I didn't pull the 50% number from thin air. Yes it's an estimate, it might be 30%. Don't make mountains out of molehills.

Add up SR, Sheep, Mt Gox, Cryptsy, BTER, Mintpal thefts and you can see for yourself.

I've had enough of this debate. Have fun caring more about be contrary.

I bet if I asked you to argue in favor of DDE over AE you could. You are only defending nothing.

With no interest in the truth.


The two things should never be compared. There is no third party in DDE what is so hard to understand here?

It's clearly superior, comparing it with escrow agents is a joke. Nobody here has denied SR theft, Mt Gox theft, all third party theft.

Nobody here has denied empty box scam

Nobody here gas denied 2 of 3 collusion scam.

And 2 of 2 escrow has none of those drawbacks other than the fact that merchants put a deposit up. Cry me a river. Jeeeez.

Also I've got so many safe guards in Halo like autobackup, filtering chat in escrow, so many beautiful details that you guys don't know because anyone arguing against it have not even bothered to test the software.

Sid how can you say it doesn't work for bigger transactions that's utter bullshit(if you dont mind me saying). I just spent two very long comments explaining that it does. Even gave really high ticket examples.

It's AE that doesn't work for either. More money on the line doesn't make AE safer where is the logic in that?

And you really want shipping companies inspecting every package? Too much intervention, big brother, extra cost, not needed in DDE at all.

Why are we comparing escrow to escrow-less transactions when there obviously is no comparison. I'm sorry but I can say more than I've already said it would be redundant. Fun to chat but not when my points aren't being completely listened to.


By the way we do use pastebins for images in Halo. But it's optional and I will add a Tor option for outbound web requests. If you send without pastebin it's a lot of POW, Halo sends by POW of pastebin is down. Perhaps if I move Bitmessage to locktimes POL instead of POW then I could encourage less paste bin. In private email contracts no pastebin is used. Image is sent by email.

You are correct. In empty box scam, both victim and assailant know the truth and so it falls on them to punish each other or sort out their differences... Aka claim postal insurance.

Dadon said the same loss would have happened in silk road with DDE?

That is the most ridiculous thing. Dadon you know that is not true.

There is no escrow in 2 of 2!!! It's peer to peer. What on earth are you thinking?

If Mt gox silk road sheep market used DDE then 50% of Bitcoins would not be in the hands of thieves.

Let me repeat that Mt gox stole almost a billion dollars of btc!

Mt Gox stole wires as well which if Karpeles did DDE for wires (which is the only way in the world to do trustless wire) then nobody would lose a wire

In DDE each peer holds their key so unless the government raids a million houses to steal each key hidden in an image I think not.


Also Dadon you don't seem to realize the exit scam can also happen to buyers.

True buyer chooses escrow agent(much better than OB) but seller can be managing 50 different escrow agents and get lucky enough to be paired with himself and 2 of 3 he keeps the coins.

And the rest of my statement stands when hight ticket AE would be many magnitudes more dangerous


Also the flexibility of DDE has been covered already, there is custom deposits, guarantor contracts etc

You guys mentioned how merchants can't lock up so much but they don't! They only lock up what their volume is. If you do 1000 dollars a week in volume then you may have 1000 locked up. But if you do 1k a week, you definitely should have funds for deposit.

Merchants pay insurance, escrow fees, fight arbiters on import fees, the list goes on. In fact if all the world's merchants knew Bay existed and it charges zero fees of course many people would use it.

The problem is lack of education and lack of marketing.

And lastly true merchants don't clammor for it but they should. This is more of an ideal change for society, eliminating courts entirely. As the entire legal system forms the cage of enslavement and eliminating biased judges is the way out.

Also DDE is the first agreement in history not backed by a gun. Behind every lawyer is a gun. So the world's first peaceful contract.

Also like Sid said shipping confirmation on blockchain is a very very bad idea. Since I can weight the box down with rocks and trick the blockchain with a valid shipping with correct weight. Free anonymous crypto money!

And just because this is the "exception" as in not everyone is a theif doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just last week someone stole my ladder and my hoses and septic lines out the back of my truck. Who would want those septic lines? I don't know maybe a crackhead. But I was pissed. And I have things stolen from me all the time. Even lost many btc on exchange hacks.

It's a fun debate but if you don't see it by now then I can't state it more clearly. It's all fun and games to defend your project. But I'm not talking about Bitbay or Halo here... I'm stating why I worked on this in the first place which was to inject a new idea into society. It doesn't surprise me in the least that people fear DDE irrationally. People will fight their own freedom tooth and nail.

It's not my goal to change people's minds or hearts. The goal is to clearly express the idea and make sure it survives and hopefully convince Sid to add it to his system.