Also Bitbay with its frozen asset class might have more potential for real estate deals since frozen coins could be possibly used as a discount loan or collateral.

This is assuming a user doesn't have the cash to buy a 50k home but does have lots of frozen coins to give at a discount.

Also a long time ago usury was considered  a SIN. Because to charge interest on money that is lent, is evil because not only is it literally taking advantage if the poor but it artificially raises prices. Like in the case of real estate appraisal that bloats up prices of homes into the millions so consumers never even own their home and are debt slaves to banks.

End that system. Just stop it. Stop it by only buying homes you can afford. That's why I've taken this philosophy so seriously that I live in a trailer bought with cash until I can afford a home in cash. In other words... Live by that philosophy, not only preach it.

No loans no greedy bankers to extort from us perpetually.

If people used DDE for real estate purchase then home prices would have to drop to meet actual values instead of puffed up greedy banker value.

I don't know anyone who hasn't been screwed on EBay. My friend got scammed selling laptops for me. And I knew a person very well who was a pro criminal... Not a close friend, now deceased but an someone I knew and this person showed me their eBay which got flagged for at least 10 grand. Their paypal also flaggged. For most likely empty boxes etc. This person was the one who told me about empty box scam.

Plus, you are assuming that a trusted arbiter won't enter into lots of deals at once before stealing. The theft can be humongous. Example, trusted arbiter builds reputation and goes in as buyer choosing himself in 100 deals. Before stealing one they enter into multiple deals.

Thus he takes potentially 20-100 bitcoins for FREE.

And what about high ticket items?? I disagree so profoundly with this contrived idea that escrow makes more sense with more money on the line!! The reverse is true. If sys has a seller for 1000 btc a scammer would be absolutely delighted to gobble that up instantly in a scam.

And escrow scams in real estate happen in tunes of BILLIONS. I remember very well when the HUD got ripped off and when real estate melt down happened. I have a real estate license and remember all of the escrows that disappeared with millions and saw zero jail time.

And DDE does work in many high value transactions because deposits don't need to be 100% AND you can microtrade. You can't microtrade a house but in some cases you can microtrade equity. Or of course barter.A 20K deposit should be enough for a 100K House. Sign away title, they have to release funds or lose an extra 20k. A simple deed can be recorded, no escrow, no agents and massive savings!

Plus houses can be notarized on the blockchain which in that case it does work extremely well. Once courts legally accept blockchain for record of title. Also for houses you can still do it full DDE. For example if I bought a house for 50k and I've got 200k I would not mind putting 50k deposit to avoid escrow fees, deceptions and all shenanigans. It saves me thousands and gives me peace of mind.


And everyone here knows this is true when I say courts and judges are almost always wrong and forced to guess.

Escrow has never worked in society. It's societies problem.

A comment above I read says in crypto people use escrow successfuly on dark markets. Oh my god that is so untrue it's staggering. Like a hundred times over not true. The darknet is swamped with Bitcoin scams. It's almost a joke. Such a joke that it's easier to just send btc direct with faith that you hopefully won't get scammed.

Dont you know your history??

Silk Road 300 million stolen at least!
Sheep Marketplace 100 million.

And I won't even mention exchange hacks

So much for arbiters!!

Guess how much has been stolen in Halo or Bitbay?
ZERO

So that's Bitcoins history. About 50% of all Bitcoins are owned by theives. Arbitration is insane in anonymous markets. And personally most hackers love doing fake profiles, social engineering. So they would have no problem making 20 fake arbiter profiles with stolen IDs and whatever else needed to confirm identity. Plus they got paid to arbitrate so it's a win win!!



But people keep forgetting an arbitor does not know who is telling the truth!!!

You cannot stop sellers from sending empty boxes or buyers from returning empty boxes or sellers lying about receiving empty boxes.

If someone kills you there are only two people that know this. The victim and assailant! Nobody else knows, can know or could ever guess.

When you add the anomynoty layer, this threat is heavily exaggerated.

And if you are using arbiters and you are forcing arbiters to reveal their identity then why not use eBay??

How can you possibly convince a consumer to use the markets that force put transparency of arbiters. So it's not anonymous anymore meaning it's definitely not a darknet market meaning it is limited to eBay style sales. So... Yeah use eBay then. Instead of volatile crypto cash.

In the case of Bitbay DDE and really all smart contracts and deposit models that it enables are a virtue, a selling point. An advantage.

Sorry if my convictions come off so strong but I will fight this till the cows come home. I feel like it's just slaves defending their cages(no offense but cognitive dissonance is a thing). And so many people fight DDE almost irrationally. Saying things like "but society has always used those really friendly middlemen who take our money and keep it safe for us. The cage is painted gold and has glitter on it. We like the cage because it's all we know and most of all we fear change." And that cage is made of judges, courts, escrows, middle men and senselss legal obfuscation.

To add to this Sid, if you ever need some ideas to borrow for your client let me know(I would love to borrow from other projects but I'm up to my neck in coding work and have had to turn down a lot of work just to finish what I've got on my plate). Its in python but I can explain how I approached solving certain things.

For example, PyQT has a "translate" option that it automatically puts in the UI when you build it from QT designer. Although those UI files can get fairly huge, and very redundant (Designer just makes the UI from a script but the code can be condensed at least 50% with a few days of work). I wasn't able to figure out how translate was anything automatically but manually from a strings database. Which we obviously did not have funds for.

SO, I redefined the translate function to pull from a translations file. The file translates LIVE off Google translate as the UI loads text. This meant that I had to change the Dialog Boxes to be a custom Question Box in my main Halo source so it also used my Google translator.

The last step was simply adding a simple UI for editing the translations... so that users can correct them and submit their corrections!

The result? 92 languages for all Halo products.

If you ever do translations, I recommend that approach and yet, I've never seen any software ever use that (what I thought was) simple step.

Also, steganography can be done with the Stepic library. I'm sure c++ also has it. Just remember to use Bitmaps or PNG as Jpeg gets recompressed a lot. If you are emailing the images, only use Bitmap for Base58

And hopefully eventually you will add DDE with CLTV as an option. Not to give you a bigger work load, as scope creep is a bitch that can kill a project, but I personally think its worth it.

Like sirlose said, there are other features... I even recently just added a live debugger which allows me to put "exec" statements and use the python interpreter as the code runs. An easy but useful addition for troubleshooting. Only for coders or advanced users but you can definitely use it to communicate the the blockchain too if you know the source.

Hey thanks for the input, the guys made the chart back a few days ago and shared it on slack, the community does their own thing at times albeit the decentralized nature of managing a project like this. Hope you don't mind, I think they made it based on the one you posted in the thread they made.

I can state that there is moderation keys in Bay for banning everything from IP, to unique IDS, to encrypted IP address banning (I don't share my decrypt key but there is one)

Removing entire markets is possible but they are easy to start as they are to remove.

However putting moderation layer side by side would make sense. Since we both have one. There are two mod keys in Bitbay transforming the client to mod version.

Bitbay will roll forward Bitcoin core improvements if Blackcoin does. I did see some core staging on rat4s branch. However, you might be more on the ball with that as I tend to ignore the c++ side of things.
Bitbay doesn't re-use public keys for Bitcoin addresses. HOWEVER, BitHalo and BlackHalo and Bitbay can all use the same keys. And they are multisig. So switching from one account to another is trivial.

Paying in BTC for items is easy, as it can be specified in the contract. That would be more conducive to a barter contract although Sys UI is clearly different and made to encourage the BTC payment alternatives where Bitbay is strictly encouraging Bay.

Unless I add BitBay to BitHalo... which might happen if the pegging goes well and volume picks up. People might use BB over BH anyways because of the stability in pegs and price growth. That is sort of an unknown.


As for your block market and bidirectional gateways and e-commerce plugins we definitely don't have that and I will probably never have the time to add that. So thats definitely something Sys has.
I remember when you used to talk about that. It was cool and I'm glad to see someone has been doing that.

I agree entirely. Also I should mention. In some of my templates I will allow partial payment out. For example employment contracts have a daily weekly or monthly invoice.

And the buy/sell anything template I wanted to have three shipping options. If you choose to send shipping not included in price as an invoice in escrow that is also allowed. Since some packages will be calculated after the fact.

So it depends on the option chosen also kewde I have the option to prevent chat in escrow where chat is allowed by mutual consent.

When chat is allowed, you have cryptographic proof of threats. It's extremely unprofitable.

But 10% might be profitable to vendors. But even there, they need to first ask for more than 10%... Let's say they ask 20%. They then must succeed on extorting that 1/3 the time to break even. Which is not easy.

Regardless we have recommended deposits automatically set unless users request otherwise.

To elaborate on 10% deposits...

If you do let's say a basic sales contract, seller puts 10% to prevent extortion attack and the buyer advances the payment he would have made anyways thus it works identical to double deposit.

Example

Guitar 1btc
Seller advances .1 btc
Buyer advances 1(payment) and .1 btc

Thus when Guitar is sent buyer must unlock funds or pay 10% extra.

Why would buyer pay 10% more since he loses funds doing so (he pays 1.1 instead of 1) so he would only perform this attack out of spite.

When you combine with a reputation system as we have in Bitbay then those deposits make sense for seasoned buyers and sellers who are low risk of being self destructive


In the case of the seller he can extort easier here with more leverage at 10 to 1. But still, extortion may not pay. Communication can be limited(we have this as an option) and we don't allow partial payments out of escrow. So honestly not only would it again wreck reputation but probably not pay off.

Regardless, the fact that we don't want to give the seller or buyer leverage is why the recommended deposits are equal to the value.

And honestly, people usually have funds to cover their daily volume. And it's worth it of course because it eliminates the courts and eliminates theft from existence

Sebastian1234  thanks for linking kewdes comment, I want to reply to a ceaveat on that.

Kewde says Bitbay requires 100% double deposit. It does not! There is CUSTOM deposit options right in the templates AND a reputation system.

Custom deposits can be anything you want. Also you can have guarantor contracts where only one side deposits.

And escrow in crypto must be double deposit or else arbiters can collude and steal 100% of the escrow as 2 of 3 keys they only need to enter into the contract secretly as buyer or sell to steal.

So double deposit is a MUST unless you want to get robbed.

Yeah  I'm sure there is a few honest arbiters but there is no way in hell I would encourage 2 of 3 with anonymous markets where they can steal with impunity. And no amount of debate will change my mind here.


I know SDC is also going a double deposit route, which I'm excited to see that completed and would be interested to see how they handle the user experience different from how we did.

Yes but he did apologize for attacking Bitbay. I can understand how some people didn't know about the details of bobsurplus and bter/Steven. He could have very well simply not known or taken the time to read what the news said etc.

As for the rest of the FUD, it actually made me laugh. I suppose it's just one of those things, you gotta laugh at life, and (insert meme here)

Anyways kewde if you want you can post here with your own comparisons of SDC market to sys/bay and its prospective features. This is tech talk. It's all good. I already know some of your advantages, don't be shy to talk about them. Or if you prefer away from trolls like Sid said I'm on Skype... Guess my super anonymous name there. The NSA will never discover my Skype name muahahaha.

By the way, earlier Sid brought up open source. Not sure if I already mentioned this but you can download the HaloOBF.zip package and build it. You can verify that it doesn't do anything evil. There is no servers and you can also build my Bitmessage from that package too. There is only two burn addresses in it The BitcoinEater and BitCoinEaterAdios base58 hash for Blackcoin. I have been meaning to just use 6a but that is very low hanging fruit. Oh and there is a donation address which I should change to two pubkeys instead of a set address so the magic byte is different for each multisig (in case I do DogeHalo)

So the source can actually be audited as long as you can tolerate obfuscated variables. SoFashionVeryCrypto99 or FindTheVWinAPrize321GOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWVWWWWWWWW or DorianOnTheMoonSuch

Kewde if VeritasBS is still there ask him about when he tried to reverse engineer my python for some laughs.

FYI speaking of breaks, I'm on vacation this week sort of repairing my truck and hanging out at the beach in Mexico.

Kewde, as for OP I dont participate in forum stuff. If some of the guys at Bitbay post a thread it's their thing to spark debate.

Personally I don't consider forums marketing. I think journalism is the best method of marketing.

I'm far to busy coding this damn thing to pay attention.

However, this thread caught my attention because they did tell me about it on slack and I saw some interesting comments, felt like it was worth responding.

Keep up the hard work bud, Im sure it will pay off.

Oh well thank you, I appreciate it. Honestly, I have a good amount of respect for sys and shadows devs because I know how much work goes into what they do. In fact just recently chatted with the SDC dev about cryptography and security. He seemed pretty knowledgeable and I think they will deliver a product.

This software stuff takes time. Like the previous commenter said "one year in crypto". That just about sums up how crazy it is for developers who can take years coding something. Software is never done. Adobe Photoshop will have a new version every year for our grandkids.

So you combine the impatient vicious wolf of wall Street penny stocks where nobody holds for more than a week, with government agencies and their agendas for finance, with developers who in contrast need years to finish their work. They shouldn't work alone but they do, they need devs marketing and years of solid support depending on the scope of the project. And they hardly ever get that support.

So honestly all devs have my support, we know what you go through, if it's ico issues, hacks, FUD or just long days it's a bitch.

And for all the dishonest " devs" that aren't really devs? Well someone needs to throw them in the ocean

So yeah penny stocks and development....

It's like combining fire with water.

Hey I just started reading this thread and it is pretty interesting. Honestly, I think you underestimate how manipulative Bob is.

As anyone who knew anything about Bitbay, it was Steven Dai and Linn who approached me. Not Bob. Bob and Gekko only introduced themselves the day before. You can see this because Bob moronically dumped his chat logs on BCT with the txid of the 500 btc he kept.

When Bay started BTER was still a respected exchange. This was before their cold wallet hack.

I went into the project because of Steven. He promised me Chinese devs, financial support. I figured 5 people working on it made sense. It was not my project. The Halo business model included licensing which obviously now I see as a mistake since that puts my reputation on the line. You live, you learn.

I'm not a trader. I'm a coder and I had no clue who Bob surplus was. I've got better things to do than to waste time on forums. His Skype he goes by International Rob. So we only talked on Skype. Not to mention an investor and Gekko had flown out to China to meet Lin. But like I said I had not met Bob until days before. After meeting him I almost backed out cause he gave me the creeps. But Steven promised me it was okay. He said they would help with marketing as neither he or Lin wanted to do that. Since they only wanted me as project manager it made sense at the time.

So these guys gave me assurance that they were not going to fuck me over. And i did express concerns. Plus Steven paid a deposit on my work in advance. This is old news, you can read Bitbays Reddit and not to mention the news covered this in my favor I might add. Ian Demartino was the only news that desperately wanted to propagandize me. But he was unable to!! He read all of my chat logs, we spent like 5 hours on the phone and he found no proof that I was anything but a coder.

Besides why would I willingly let someone abuse my name and scam me. I'm not anonymous that's the stupidest thing ever. I would have to be masochist or retarded. I assure you I'm neither.

What happened to Bitbay was good old fashioned sabotage. And propaganda. Politics, smear campaigns your typical crap that makes the world as fucked as it is. Propaganda is evil hopefully a special place in hell is reserved for those that partake in it.

By the way, it wasn't less than a couple weeks of hell before I told everyone what went on. I would consider that pretty fast. It's been more than one year since then and I've been coding ever since.

I will open source when the time is right. Obviously, that time should be after we get to see the market react to a completed project, and we have lots of time to market it and everything.

Also the comment about "web interface". I agree. However, I really think the UI is very good. Especially compared to what it was 2 years ago.

However, it makes me wonder if a browser version is possible. It might be with an api, perhaps eventually could look into a web developer to make a web front end that communicates to the api? Its a lot of work to do something like that. Maybe a mobile app would be more important in that case. It would be nice to have some VC before attempting something like that.

This solution has been around for years with unbreakable contracts in BitHalo, just saying...
https://bithalo.org/bithalo/

I guess I'm hoping to not have to repeat this for the next year. It says it in our documentation, in articles, in forums, on slack all about the advantages here. You know this has all been discussed at length. We know its true. The only thing lacking is more articles, more users more marketing etc.

As you know I support other developers in their quest, its hard work!!

With that said, I don't think I've been shy to say that double deposit escrow is a absolutely superior technology in every way shape and form!!

Not to mention, this software is 50k lines of totally original code and 2 years in the making.

There is also many more features like automated joint accounts, live translations, templates, price tracking bots, live price feeds, counter-offer systems, accounting, change management systems, p2m, imap and bitmessage, steganography, advanced sending, reputation system, etc. Dude the list is so long I probably forgot most of the things it does under the hood.

The contracts aren't blockchain based so it doesn't add to the stress on the payment protocol. People need to remember that Bitcoin is a payment protocol FIRST not second!

So it is in my opinion a horrible idea to conflate. Adding things to the blockchain that belong as separate protocols especially since contracts can and should be done peer to peer. Why force the whole blockchain to know you are selling your 1950s coin collection?! They don't care and it doesnt effect the outcome of the payment in the slightest.

Do we really need to notarize everything? No! We notarize houses, yachts, stocks, things of great value.

Now I'm not entirely sure about the full details of sys and its blockchain, I know they use links to images so thats good. But still links should not be on a blockchain either.

However I hope the increasing of 6a is a temporary solution and that there is a long term plan to not make the markets blockchain based. I see this as a "convenient place to communicate". But just because its convenient doesn't mean its the correct way to do things. We discussed bloat recently, it was interesting to hear some of his methods of attempting to tackle the issue.

The thing of it is, Bitcoin already has a bloat problem... which has yet to be solved.

Bitcoin is a payment system, a bank. Its not a place to store everything.

My software was around before Etherium was even announced!! That shows you how long I've been working on this. It is completely unfair to compare seasoned software with new software.

I think the media has totally censored Halo in Lieu of Etherium which has been so much hype. They are a money vacuum, sucking up funds and resources. The media puts all their eggs in one basket forgetting that there is other ways to manage a blockchain. Blockchains arent powered by unicorns and rainbows... Etherium has scaling issues that go complete ignored. They may solve it, but even if they do, double deposit will always have scope well beyond "decentralized markets". It permeates all agreement and in my opinion deserves much more attention.

You can do double deposit on any coin, this software was designed to accommodate that without lock times.

Of course the media may end up censoring Halo anyways because it cuts out middle men. And they are the middle men.


By the way, I realize that entertaining "comparisons" of protocols is just asking for a debate. I'm not interested in criticizing other projects including Ethereum. They probably do great things there.
The reason we have the tech we do in Bitbay is because I believe its the best way. And of course its still the only smart contracting software in the world. Can you name another smart contracting software?

Anyways, all these coins especially Sys, have my full respect. Even Eth. Their work is hard... people seem to be thinking this is a competition. I'm not here competing with other coins. I'm just making the tech that I know in my heart is the best. I've never seen this as a competition, but a tech breeding ground. We can't force people to use it, but if we market it hard enough they will use it.

You should also remember I came to this party for double deposit. Thats why I got into crypto. That hasn't changed. Of course double deposit is the best way to do things. How many people have stopped to think about how backwards the legal system really is? We are literally living in a giant asylum. Double deposit could change that, bring people back to the hand shake deal.

This software BitHalo BlackHalo BitBay should have been on the damn cover of Forbes! It should be in Times magazine. But you have to realize the media is the gatekeepers and technology that seeks to eliminate middle men won't necessarily get the warmest reception.

Regardless, Bitbay increases your profit margins since you pay no fees to escrow. So the only thing lacking is media attention. And i think its naive to base faith in the technology of something just because it pumps or not.

Does Dogecoin have better technology than Bitbay? Just sayin...

Kewde, thanks for the info on the double ratchet, I had not seen that one before. And its great to know how you send out broadcasts. Yes I've been meaning to look into doing that, but like you said I've got priorities too. Lots of stuff left to code.

Have you investigated moving AWAY from OpenSSL? Perhaps its best to find a different library or write one. I've heard some conspiracy theories about how all the encryption we use was reverse engineered. The prime number pairs were reverse engineered or something.

This sort of led me to look into Primecoin as a way to find some pairs of primes for making better cryptography.

Also, how do you salt your passwords? I use mouse movements that are recorded early into your session. Although I heard that all random number generators are compromised and really wondered if this was after the fact. This makes me question if my salting is trivial because I've yet to look at how random numbers are made in my dependencies.

I think quantum computers are a hoax. However, this doesn't mean that cryptography shouldn't be improved and seen some proposals for more advanced methods of public key cryptography.Then again, its not a priority for me to work on that since I've got other things to code.

Also, one way you can prevent a "rich spammer" is make it more expensive the more they send. So not a linear function. Then you can trace backwards addresses so they can't just split one level and get a cheaper fee. Also, you can force it to be through a single input and not allow them to combine large amounts of keys or outputs forcing it to come through a single address or limit to two to three addresses or two to three inputs. You can combine it with similar anti-ddos protocols.

However perhaps the network still has a flooding problem which in my belief has nothing to do with time lock spamming. Simply transaction spamming is a problem. In the time locked scenario at least they are locked for a period of time. But if a party just spams transactions they get a very similar effect. The reason for using time locks is to get approval for sending messages in the Bitmessage system without being forced to do POW. So its like one protocol using a second protocol to pre-approve its traffic. You can set the fee high per kilobyte if needed. As I know that even sending 25kb in Bitmessage can require a lot of POW.

So yeah a rich spammer can be prevented this way, and I highly doubt someone would take the time to carefully fragment and disassociate accounts. Plus for each account they spam with, there is still a lock. You can increase the fee per account the more they send. Since its time locked, they get it back! So no big deal right? They just burn to 6a time locked back to revive to their address within 24-48 hours per kilobyte.

And as for ZKP i have not honestly looked into ring signatures yet. As I have presumed that Bitcoin is already pretty anonymous. I think the biggest thing to tackle is IP addresses.

Yeah interesting... they seem to be hype magnets. However, the media should really not put all their faith in one protocol. They are sidelining Bitcoin in some ways, consider that Bitcoin can do smart contracts using BitHalo as well. Etherium is not tested as secure yet.

Before crypto the open source community was absolutely filled with people who worked for free. Labors of love. Sure open source occasionally has projects that profit but that is absolutely the exception, not the rule. Nobody gets into open source because they want to make millions. They get into it because they have an idea usually.

Also, yes I work for free. I got into crypto to make Halo, double deposit escrow as most people here already know the story. I made some funds on the side investing in altcoins... not as much as I should have. Its been several years now and I only worked one paid project where the people who started it kept the funds they raised for themselves and never spent a penny supporting it and then tried to blame me for it (adding insult to injury). Of course I still work on all my projects seeing them to completion.

So I've worked for free ever since that project as well, since no new money is coming in. So 1st 1.5 years free, then one project. And now I manage BitHalo, BlackHalo and Bitbay completely alone. There is no other dev, no marketing team, just occasional volunteers and I pay people sometimes for sites or community stuff.

My goal is to finish the projects, not to profit. The funds are totally irrelevant to me. Wouldn't care even if I lost money doing it. Just want to finish what I started. My goal is to popularize double deposit escrow. And this is why I was happy to see Shadow adopt it and came by to say hello on this thread in the first place.


As for the other comment above about the collapse of the american dream. I agree money is not corrupt by nature. The idea is a pure concept. But charging interest on money is what causes its corruption. And of course, belief propagation, propaganda which controls minds and convinces everyone to acquiesce to those in power. Giving a piece of paper value that of course they can print unlimited quantities of. (especially electronic off balance sheet transactions in the tune of double digit trillions per year)

This is why I'm making a pegging tool that can inflate and deflate to put an end to the speculation... allowing even low volume currencies to deflate and protect their value, even increasing it without the need of a market maker.

There is of course dishes that scan and you don't have to hijack, many places give free wifi like starbucks.

But people forget the air is free. Just get a flashed phone. 3g and 4g is usually blocked on the phone.

And although I agree, planting needs seeds there is no free lunch. Yes we need to "breathe" to stay alive but come on. This is 2016, most things should be free. Tesla proved energy was free and could come right out the ground. Water can be taken out of the air. Homes can be 3d printed from dirt.

People need to start realizing we are being held back by wasting our time and energy on things that should not be paid services because there are superior technologies at our disposal.

Example, if I had a set of solar panels and I produced 10 times what I needed for my home, why not give it to my neighbors for free? What if I produced a billion times what I needed? People try to slap a dollar value on everything and that is another reason I don't like MAID. Believe it or not, there was a time where people functioned without money.

Tor is free, if people think its compromised just rewrite it and make it better and people will use it.

Yeah I realize that. However, crypto is a payment/banking system. And things like Maidsafe completely ignore this ideology and use it in ways it wasn't meant to be used.

And there is a free lunch. Tor is free. Energy is free. And money grows on trees... just start a farm, grow some fruits and vegetables.

Seriously though, I don't even pay for internet. And I'm hoping more people will discover the air waves are free. Tor is a free service, BitTorrent is a free service.

Its like making a BitTorrent crypto coin... lol. People keep trying to mix banking with things that have nothing to do with banking.

If the system fails as a banking system, it will absolutely fail as both. Maid doesn't sell me on why its a banking system.

The only reason projects like Maid exist is because naive speculators hope the price will go up so they can sell it for more than they paid for. Not fudding MAID, just being honest.
I suppose the only thing they have going for it is people can get paid for allocating resources. So that is sort of interesting. And perhaps it could encourage more nodes. But the internet must be free. Period.