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1201  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 19, 2016, 11:48:50 AM
Yeah its unfortunate crysx, it looks like I will have to maybe consider uninstalling it after the Bitbay project and putting Windows 7 or Linux on it.

Now im sure windows 7 collects data but I can't imagine its anything as ridiculous as 10 which seems to only be created for spying on its users.

1202  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 19, 2016, 09:16:16 AM
On a side note, installing windows 10 and it took me like 2 hours to turn off all the stupid keyloggers and spyware. Its such a violation of trust.


I'm seriously doubting that I was able to turn it all off. I'm certain that these new computers are just not secure. You can't stop automatic updating which is crazy. I had to change it in the registry. And the windows defender cannot be turned off unless you spend a lot of time. Everything sends reports back including keystrokes.

Look at this shit...

1203  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 19, 2016, 09:03:21 AM
shame.

this stupid coin is still alive and scammer is still active here.
Hi Bob et al ... you and your helpers/handlers will burn in hell. It must be sad for you to have no soul.

Funny the dude was gone for months, his name is mentioned and voila... what a joke.
1204  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 19, 2016, 07:57:16 AM
Yes david I totally understand your POV. I know you don't want to think of yourself as being scammed but honestly if I was you and I had 1/5th of the dev funds to do all the development and the 4/5 went off to others who did nothing but try to harm this project I would feel scammed. Same for investors if we'd known only 1/5 of the donated BTC would go to the dev of the coin we would never invested.

However yes this needs to be put behind us (almost entirely because if we can nuke their bay wallets i would love that done) and move on to new ways for improving bay's community and market share.

For me BAY2 answers this better than any other solution put forward here.
I still see no down side to it.

However if nobody is interested in BAY2 i am totally up for discussion on other ways to push bay forward.

The pegging needs a couple of good exchanges to test it out on. I hope we can get enough volume by then to encourage them to list/test it.



I wonder how we can encourage more people to use the market place right now...

I don't really wish to drag you away from your work on this... I was hoping there would be other input and discussion from other Bay members.




Well of course i felt scammed... actually I felt much worse. I completely betrayed by humanity itself lol. But honestly, I'm not sure what I was expecting. There are some extremely corrupt and powerful forces in this world who have their eyes on crypto. It should have been obvious that I would meet some enemies if I planned on working in disruptive tech. Halo eliminates middle men. In a sense, almost everyone in society is a middle man. It obviates some laws by reducing frivolous lawsuits. Its the only type of "trusted" contract that can be used in an anarchy or during wartime.

It was to be expected.

Not only was I upset, I still get upset thinking about it. If I could get revenge I would... you probably don't want to know what went through my mind in terms of revenge haha.

But if I spent my life chasing down every asshole and bastard, I would get nothing useful accomplished. If one perishes, 3 more are born.

Think of it like a tree. The leaves start to die when the root is bad. If you don't cure the root of the problem you will never cure the leaves or the tree. You need to cure the entire tree.

Thats the whole point of decentralization. We focus on tech that takes pressure off of consumption and corruption. We want to take pressure off of the tree.

If you have unbreakable contracts, lying is not going to be as common in business.
If you have pegged currencies, you (attempt) to reduce greed and volatile markets.
If you have decentralized money, you eliminate unfair power structures.
If you 3d print homes out of dirt you house everyone.
If you 3d print products, you solve the consumption problem (less trucks on the road things go from design to end user)
If you have aquaponics and pink farming you give consumers a way to produce food in small spaces out of season and quickly
If you use spirulina you solve starvation
If you use water from air you solve drought (you can 3d print those structures too)
And 3d printed mesh networks solves decentralized internet and media
Open source 3d printed electronics solves the rest... (including cures for diseases using electro-resonance and free energy devices and robotics)

Automation and robotics can get rid of a lot of unnecessary jobs in society... society should not be forcing people to work jobs that robots can do.

Then you get to see the rise of robotics and automation and more happiness for everyone. This is the world we all want to see I think.
A true crypto enthusiast doesn't want chaos they want freedom combined with technology.   Grin
1205  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 19, 2016, 03:10:18 AM
cryptohunter2 I totally see what you are saying. The difference of Etherium is they appear to be developing, they have a fancy website, lots of marketing and community activity, and they appear to have some code for their beta all fresh code. BUT by Vitaliks own admission, they dumped their coins on the market to get more funds and by his own words he said they were running out of funding.

So that is an admission maybe not of a complete scam but at least of extreme greed and unethical mismanagement of funds. Its okay, if they deliver a product to be honest I don't care. For all I know Vitalik is in a similar situation that I was in, hes not the only one in the project. They seem to have 2 lawyers and 2 marketers for every coder.

Cryptohunter to be exact, i got 1/5th of 1000 btc (191 to be exact). The ICO did not raise 3000 btc but it only raised 1500. 500 of which Bob secretly kept for himself and his partner (by telling people the 500 was his own personal investment when it wasn't and asking Lin for a refund). So thats how it went down.

And even with their known shares of 200 they all kept it, Lin Steven etc and none of them helped me find developers and they other two instead of marketing paid people on bitcointalk to harm my reputation.

Thats as simple as i can describe it. I told everyone about it after only a few weeks in to the project after struggling with it privately. Steven promised me 10% of Bitbay before the project started, but he never said the Bitcoin from that 10% would get refunded to himself and Lin. So that was a major detail that was left out.

Regardless you guys all know the addresses of my coins and they havent moved and wont until I'm done pegging. And I've used it to pay bounties and surely can do more bounties.


To be honest, I see absolutely no reason to look at investors or myself as victims. It sucks sure, but life isn't fair and in the end we rely on our own strength to get out of bed in the morning. And also, you don't lose what you don't sell. Crypto is known to be a very high risk investment. However, look at this in a positive way, if we finish there is a really good chance the market cap spikes tremendously as long as we can find an exchange and the protocol tested thoroughly.

So you know, the is absolutely never a reason to look back. I was dwelling on it for a few months and it just made me sad and prevented me from working. So how can that be right? No, the only thing to do is move forward always.

Be the change you want to see in others right?

By the way, scope creep is a really important problem to avoid in programming. Its the problem of trying to have too many features and then keep adding them. Its the reason most projects fail.

After I started coding I realized I was guilty of scope creep. And that is exactly why I now know that delivering the product finished is what matters. If for example I add a shipping calculator but then decide I want to price track that too and do 10 more things with the template? Thats scope creep.

Ive decided on the design of the templates, I think the coins for cash one is really awesome. Could it link into online banks and do wire transfers and link into western unions site or stuff like that? Sure, but that would be scope creep.

And honestly, I think the software is extremely user friendly. The setup wizard is good, people now know how the markets wallet works. The coins for cash and buying your first Bitbay is the first thing you see in the wallet. All the panels expand for advanced users. Its been a lot of work for me to get the UI that way.

So the only thing I can do as a coder is not try to do more than I already have in front of me. To focus and do one task per day if needed. Be patient and not get upset if I lose a few days and just stay positive and work a minimum number of hours in the day just like any day job.
1206  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 18, 2016, 07:45:25 PM
I got to thinking David - since the intial ICO was a total scam, and you were left with basically nothing except your BAYs and a few btc (which really was for smartcontracts software which you have given to bay already) to fund the rest of the development of bit bay as opposed to say etherium that got 18M dollars worth of BTC... what amount of BTC would it take to get you going with hiring the devs and setting up some decent marketing for BAY? would be nice to have a marketing guy /graphics webdesign i mean a team instead of just you having to arrange and do it all really.

I mean there is away we could raise a reasonable amount of BTC... If you could outline how many BTC it would take and a plan of how it would be used to best effect i think there is a possible way we could raise this?

If there were away to

1. increase interest/awareness and belief
2. Increase dev funding - totally transparent and a ledger - released only in agreement with community for confidence and involvement..
3. get volume up and on to other larger exchanges
4. reward those  who still believe and support the project - with real viable rewards.

surely those would be good things?

Perhaps we can get BAY to where is should have been if the ICO wasn't a totally scam resulting in the bay ico investors and you getting shafted...and those 3000BTC had been put to devs, marketing, projects ...just think where BAY would have been.

What was the ICO price is sats for BAY - i forget now?


I think something can be done. But how many BTC would we need to raise to make it worth while?

Of course it's not all about the BTC i mean generating interest and new belief in the project is as important..







The amount needed to raise for a serious software development project to be honest a few million is a minimum. What Etherium raised was surely enough... it was sickening to hear they dumped their coins on the market to give themselves more money. Vitaliks own admission, he said they were running out of money (how? it sounds like gross mismanagement). And people accused Bitbay of being a scam? Holy hell, if Etherium can sell their own coins on the market after already selling 15 million dollars with vaporware how is that fair. Very good coders are hard to find so in order to pay devs you need to raise big money. There has been many articles on this exact subject. There is a lot of venture capitalists putting money into crypto but the problem is, they cant find the developers! So consider that a good developer is at least 100K+ a year. Really, a crypto dev might be double that or more.

So the only way the ICO would have worked is if the guys who started pitched in anything. The funny thing is as most of you know, I was already in Asia and was already hiring devs for the NightTrader exchange. So the guys who started this didnt even help me hire even though they promised me that Lin would help find coders from BTER and China etc... it was just all lip service (along with their promise that at least 500 btc would start in the dev fund).

But there is no point looking back on it, now i know in the future to be more careful who i license my software to. I also know now that I should have been asking for much more up front and to carefully look over their finances. I had just never gotten offered a deal that I liked and when they asked me to get involved with this one they made a lot of promises and I didn't want to lose the deal so I just didn't ask enough questions early on.

The good part of it is, i really believe in the rolling pegging system. This could all be a blessing in disguise. I'm a huge believer of turning negatives into positives. Sort of like a midas touch. When I complete the pegging system it will be the first time ever that an electronic asset can protect its own value and it might give the rise to private blockchains that are more resistant to price drops.

As for rewarding members of the community, im happy to set up a bounty for people to help connect me to bloggers, crypto article publishers etc so we can publish more articles on bitbays pegging. That will also increase interest and volume i think.

I can write content for bloggers, i was even thinking of going outside of standard crypto scenes for just every day writers. This group of investors needs more PR.


As for fund raising? I think smaller community bounties is the best. Software developers is something we simply can't afford. I might look for some in Mexico since I'm not far, the prices are good and I speak spanish. For something like that, if I find it, will certainly let you guys know and I can pay out of pocket... but we could in theory get funds together for that since it would be cheaper.

But there is no point in speculating about more devs unless we can find them and over the years ive given up trying and resorting to coding myself as usual.

Another thing is, my experience with low priced developers is, they are not good for this kind of project. Since Bitbay and Halo is extremely complex coding, this is the sort of thing that money cant buy. The devs have to be taught or monitored 24/7 they definitely cant work remotely.

I've noticed that if I'm training devs, I'm not coding... which resulted in the waste of money and time when i tried to hire help. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a dev that can contribute a single line of code :/


As we already spoke about it, I dont think diluting the amount of bay makes sense since the goal is just to finish the software... but i do like the idea of some new bounties and definitely better PR/journalists.

1207  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 17, 2016, 02:38:51 AM
I notice this thread is getting more attention lately. Be good to build the community up to a nice size to support the work david is doing.

David is it possible to put voting in the wallet? i've often heard some communities can vote on thing through their wallet? however i've never found any coins that can do this? is that just nonsense?
Well considering miners will vote for inflation and deflation, we could probably have them use that info to cast votes. Or even pay out to voting addresses. Its not the kind of thing i will support in the beta launch of pegging. But obviously since we stake from the client its certainly possible
1208  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 16, 2016, 07:03:12 AM
Good afternoon, everyone.

I have finally decided to "help", and since yesterday I have left my bitbays staking.

I have never done this kind of thing before. It's the first time I stake any cryptocurrency, because of having to leave the wallet online all the time, etc. But, this time I have decided to buy a new cheap pc and leave it on all the time staking. Anyway...

I have not succeeeded in staking anything yet (only orphans), but what I'd like to check here is if it's ok that I am only being able to connect to very few peers (2, or 3 maximum)... And right now I have got 0 active peers connection!

Am I doing anything wrong?

btw, I have got no "bitbay.conf". Is it necessary? If so, could someone please post here a conf example for me?

Thank you so much for this great project.

Success!
Hey so there is more nodes you can add. So I think the best idea is to set up a bitbay.conf

The config file isnt necessary but it gives you more control over you wallet, you can add nodes, get api access and do many more things with it.
The nodes you want to add we have mentioned before I'm going to post them here for you...
addnode=104.236.208.150
addnode=188.166.39.223
addnode=128.199.118.67
addnode=104.255.33.162
addnode=194.135.84.161
addnode=23.227.190.163


And thanks for helping! This is gonna be a great year. Last year we released the worlds first decentralized markets and this year my goal is to finish the rest of the features.
1209  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 15, 2016, 09:38:39 AM
has anyone here got any ideas how we can increase interest in BAY on this forum or anywhere else??

In this forum people are very defensive regarding their vested interests, so if they are not invested in BAY, they will object it by nature.

Make it easy to use any coin as the escrow deposit. The client (or a contract?) would trade the deposited coin to BAY at the start, and trade it back to DOGE or w/e it originally was when the contract finishes. Perhaps even downplay the fact that BAY is the underlying token so different coin communities would have less objections in adopting the market.

There would obviously have to be a fee for using other coins because of slippage and exchanges taking their cut, so when people get familiar with the market and they want smaller fees they'd perhaps start using BAY directly.

I suppose the above would ideally utilize a decentralized exchange, but perhaps ShapeShift's API could be used in the interim.

"A secure double deposit escrow market for any coin!"

In theory, I can give every coin smart contracts after the software is complete. Doge is actually the next one on my list because of its meme power. Such contract so fashion WOW.

But yeah, as you already know about the NightTrader exchange, that is going to be a very critical question of if I do that or pegging first. I think the exchange needs to be at least in Beta first because we need a place to trade frozen assets and also a place to trade Bitbay if no exchange accepts it after the fork.

The NT exchange will support many coins, microtrading is a way to trade any two coins. However, its a bit heavy on the blockchain.

Unfortunately, there is no way that I can think of (yet) that does contracts between two currencies. Especially since the payout should at least be in one currency.

The way might be do to atomic trades but thats extremely advanced if you also do those trades on top of contracts (since the trades are time locked and contracts allow for extensions).

I'm not sure how a contract can be made with multiple currencies at this time. (maybe it can be done with some advanced time lock tricks or a lightning network in all of the coins)

Not all coins support time locks which is exactly why NT exchange is microtrading. Although i've considered green addresses for a slightly less trusted method.

The ultimate decentralized exchange is definitely a lightning network that is coin agnostic since those can all be done p2p without reporting to a blockchain.
1210  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 15, 2016, 02:17:03 AM
Quote:
"The seller accepts the underbid at 900? What are the chances of finding a buyer at 950 when hes willing to go lower at 900? Basically your underbidding and flipping to buyers who dont underbid so much but they deal directly with you and not the seller? That seems like shadowflipping kinda cause the re agent will flip to a buyer by underbidding and hooefully getting a property then turning around and selling without putting anything down, just his name on a paper... The risk is that if closing happens, the re agent is on the hook."


That is incorrect, an option contract forces the seller to accept at the option price. Perhaps you dont know that exclusive options cannot be broken or the seller will face a very serious lawsuit. It might even jeopardize the title. In Exclusive options the buyer pays any amount of consideration (even a dollar is legally binding) in exchange for the delay to execute the offer. Its identical to an offer, there is only a delay.

So yes the sellers cant break those and thats why double escrow is possible in an option agreement and so is assignment(exclusive and nonexclusive). There are people who made millions doing this and still do. Imagine if you faxed the option to 1000 listings, secured 50 from $1 to $1000 in exclusive options and each option is a 1-2 month option. And you can sell that portfolio via assignment or double escrow and pocket the difference.

Also in double escrow those escrows are done simultaneously. The offeror never goes on title actually, he just is a middleman between escrows, and in some states an undisclosed one at that. His first escrow is secured by the second one. And they usually find cash buyers which makes the transfer seemless.

In the case of assignment, hes not involved in any way whatsoever. He is literally selling a piece of paper. I know that seems funny but its not because the option will almost definitely have a clause for assignment. Thats the whole reason a buyer would want it since the seller is forced into escrow.

The agent is absolutely not on the hook. This is all allowed in the law. Its the seller that would be in serious trouble. The law not only allows middle men, it encourages them. That was my point.

Its actually a real estate secret. Very few people know about find and assign... but you can see on google there are certainly wholesalers and consumers that do it.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=%22find+and+assign%22&oq=%22find+and+assign%22&gs_l=serp.3...178304.181681.0.181892.19.11.0.0.0.0.312.312.3-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..18.1.312.0.MAILnm1SvlQ
1211  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 14, 2016, 10:08:15 PM

A long blog about smart contracts.

Thought it might be of interest.

Great read. Thanks for the link. I wonder what Sidhujag has in mind to tackle the issue. I mean there's got to be a solution to it right?
i totally agree with it, and this is where me and david differ in oppinions although we are in sync with the end goal, the path we choose are opposite, I feel that in order to disrupt this market you must work within the current guidelines and offer interim solutions before the market adjusts without shock and realizes they can cut the middkemen out entirely.

Case in point, here in vancouver we have a huge rei bubble going on, with rei agents shadow flipping properties by front running real bids and reselling properties before their closing within 6 months making up to $300k in some deals at little to no risk. The superintndnt of rei was issued a mandate recently to discover tools and processes to combat this type of problem.. What me and my coworker thought of is this, although i pitched him the blockchain concept he convinced me an even more naive solution was required to patch the prblem first.. being able to audit the process of bidding on a property as a buyer represented by an rei agent.

So we have mls.ca and they process the sales and transactions and have an api, mostly a pull api to get info.. We simply force them to allow pushes and track bids of buyers represented by rei agents.. You cant cut rei agents out of the loop initially, the politics amd corruption reins up the ladder and it wont happen, atleast not with government help.

So you now can audit via mls and have to trust mls is accurate if courts look.

Then you offer a system that lets you track via a blockchain whereby you can issue something like a syscoin certificate to an rei agent, one to the bidder and have the pair required to place a bid on an offer (to sell the property).. Since rei agents are supposed to provide value in terms of competitivr bargaining on behalf of clients as well as provide insight into which properties the buyer should bid on it would require that the buyer would work with an agent to place a bid. Lawyers would need to be involved to oversee the documents that thr rei agent would get signed by the buyer that he can legally place bids for the buyer and it can be stored in th certificate data section as a scanned image or hash of a document. Now if it goes to court the judge can simply see what the rei agent did and confirm the buyer allowed them to bid, aswell as the buyer would br able to audit what the rei agent is doing for the buyer, all with ability to prove that you were the owner of certain certificates because you own the private keys, and you signed a notary witnesses document for the rei agent which is part of your certificate. When the sysoin offer is sold the commission is assigned to the rei agent and buyer pays the property price through an escrow. This id just an example off top of my head where you work in steps to solve these problems..

Later when market realizes that you can discover prices through some online metric and you can filter out properties you ewnt to bid on, you can lobby to remove the rei agent out of the equation and have direct buyer seller interaction without the need for lawyers or middle men, the final step in the evolution of the smart contract for the everyday world.

There is an extremely lucrative real estate trick that you can do very similar to the one mentioned above. Anyone who wants to make a killing can do this although its not entirely fair to buyers and sellers. Its called "double escrow" not to be confused with double deposit. Basically, in real estate you offer a listing an exclusive option in exchange for a dollar or whatever they accept. The option agreement might give you a few months to decide to execute. Then you secure an escrow company to find a cash buyer. You underbid on the house you optioned (like a 1 million dollar house you offer 900,000). THEN you find a the cash buyer who wants a 1 mil house for 950!

Next part is easy, you set up two escrows and pocket the difference. This amazingly is legal! It doesnt even need to be disclosed in some states which is totally ridiculous since most RE transactions require disclosing things as ridiculous as a ghost being on the property! (like how could you prove that)... Anyways, the difference in net is zero risk for the person securing the escrows. They make 50,000 on a deal they were never involved in. Double escrow was one of the many reasons for the real estate crash because of inflated prices and the ease of the deal.

Now consider that there is another deal much more effective since it eliminates you completely and you operate 100% as a silent middle man. You do the same, underbid on a million dollar house at 900,000 but maybe do it to 100 houses getting the options as cheap as possible. Then you shop the underbid portfolio to buyers and their real estate agents. This is called "find and assign". The find and assign technique is just literally options and selling the actual piece of paper since you add a clause in the contract to make the option assignable. Now you are an invisible middle man who can net anywhere from 1-50 thousand dollars per assignment depending on how awesome you got the bid. (Imagine if you bid on a hotel or a bulk amount of land, the assignment becomes extremely valuable if the bid was good).


These are examples sidhujag just like you mentioned above. Good business models but totally contrary to a realtors fiduciary responsibility. Find and assign is more ethical than double escrow since the lack of disclosure is a little unfair to the parties involved. As a realtor, I am forced to disclose double escrow here in california but in some states i think its still okay. In fact, these deals not having a license is better than having it since there is absolutely no fiduciary responsibility. Knowledge of the law actually hinders you.

Traditional real estate is totally corrupt. Especially zoning laws which have basically zoned off grid living out of existence and is a direct infringement on the freedom of mankind.

Anyways, sidhujag you are actually correct in your assessment that people will take a very long time to warm up to smart contracts since it requires them to think differently about everything they do. Also it moves consumers from a "trust" society to a "trustless" one. Of course its superior, but it takes time for people to adjust. I hope they wake up sooner than later. Hopefully one day people will decide they have had enough of middle men jacking up prices of everything.
1212  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 14, 2016, 04:16:04 AM

A long blog about smart contracts.

Thought it might be of interest.

Great read. Thanks for the link. I wonder what Sidhujag has in mind to tackle the issue. I mean there's got to be a solution to it right?

Bizarre he thinks you need lawyers still and doesnt seem to know about Halo. You dont need lawyers/courts with Halo and Bitbay since enforcement is built in.

Why would he write the article and leave out the Halo use case? Since those contracts dont have the problem he described at all. Since the protocol relies on the already existing rules of the blockchain.
1213  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 12, 2016, 11:38:25 AM
thanks david for the very detailed answer.

I can only imagine how hard it is to get guys who can actually help with this project.

I know you have posted on various places for help. Do you think there are any devs on this board that we could inspire to come work with us on this. I mean are there not vital (less secret) tasks they could do? but still the work they would do would really help boost us on.

I was wonder if the community could all donate some bitbay to a big developement pot which we could use to bring other devs on to the team to assist you with your work

I think we should keep all the coding or as much as possible of the vital stuff to for you knowledge only and closed source as possible until we have a clear lead in the areas you have been working for so long.

I mean if we could raise say a few million bays in a pot do you think we could bring on another dev or 2 from here to help us? then again we would ideally want them invested in the project not just dumping our coins back on the market.

If we could devise some ROI projects for bay that would be good too.

Thing is nobody really donates much unless they get something in return or else everyone sits there waiting for everyone else to donate for projects...the secret is getting them some return for donating ....even though a higher price for BAY should be a good enough reason it doesn't work because even those that don't donate benefit the same as those that do donate. Shame we can't think of a way to reward those that donate only.

Or even reward for doing tasks - if we had a pot where you did various tasks and got paid with bay that could be useful too.

Even so I'm very impressed with the work done so far. I think people are just unaware of this project right now. If we could get on poloniex that would really help along with btc38. It's a shame the wallet is so buggy i wonder if that can bring consideration from poloniex?


I wouldnt say anything I'm doing is secret... because its hard work anyways and I share source with other devs. But finding someone qualified is hard. The syscoin dev hangs out here, but i know he is super busy on his project... most good crypto devs are busy with their own thing Smiley

Ive got some Bitbay I could chip in, I've not spent any of it since the launch. In fact, I bought a little bit when it was low at 40. But you know a dev might want BTC? I'm not sure but its an interesting idea. We could look for devs in reddit at r/bitcoin or even on odesk. But finding a cheap one who is trustworthy who doesnt procrastinate and who follows through is almost impossible. This is why I'm looking into Mexico. Plus I've got tons of friends down there.

In the meantime, I'm here coding! Right now setting up my new computer and building distributables. The speed of my updates will pick up very soon! Now I'm home, no distractions and just catching up on work.

Only the QT wallet is buggy. The markets wallet only has a few minor bugs but nothing that interferes with markets or contracts.

Poloniex is almost definitely looking for VOLUME. That brings them money and low volume will not make them want to bring it on.

Hopefully when I get to coding NightTrader that the decentralized exchange will be fast enough that people will want to use it. I'm still facing some speed decisions.

Either way, this year we should see the complete client.



1214  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 11, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
btc38 would be great for bitbay.


Indeed it would.

The thing is to push the marketing side of it now.... or await the pegging. I mean if we await the pegging and get it fully stable and get all the bugs ironed out.

Then we done some marketing get some volume going through on the exchanges.

Then we got some decent vendors using it since with pegging they can't lose on volitile spiking

That could be great.

We do have a few senior or above serious crypto people interested in BAY it would seem. It just seems so low in value considering all the things it has going for it?

It's terrible that none of us really has any coding skills to help david. Is there some team for other things? I see some nice graphical work has been done, and the website looks really nice too.

One thing that could be holding us back is the bitbay QT ... I mean i know it is just a standard wallet to coin to hold the tokens for now, but really I don't know why but it seems so buggy compared to some other qts on my machines. It takes ages to download the chain from scratch too.

I know it's not actually important right now but it would be cool for when people get started to have something as easy as possible with zero wating and frustration.

Is anyone here using the bitbay market place to sell things atm?
Well it is undervalued because the casual investor only cares about price and not tech. Half the projects dont even have a real dev and are just fake. Even Etherium had absolutely no product for years and spent the entire time raising money with no actual proof of concept.

There is a lot of senior bitcointalk members interested and obviously the code was of interest enough to draw a lot of people to its unfortunate launch.

Also, it is fair to mention the progress made on the client in the last year (comparing screenshots alone) a lot of features have been added and of course the decentralized markets.

The people we have on our team are mostly the slack members. We have a couple people who did graphics mostly meta who did our site which I have to admit looks excellent. And the slack members helped find artists for the new logo, promotional materials and everything else which I made sure everyone we contracted got paid of course.

The reason the QT is buggy is because it was not built with complete source code. Oxidians github is missing files so it cant even build bitbayd for some platforms. I have a more updated source which is good for the daemon but it wont run qt. It would be nice to see a new qt but we have to consider that very soon it will be phased out. I might even fork early to get rid of the qt before we even start to peg.

I just bought a new laptop today actually for testing and may buy a couple more cheap ones just to see a few different systems. Aside from any VMs im going to run.

By the way, to avoid the sync, you should look at how Ive coded Bithalo. That version of Halo actually doesnt download a blockchain.

The reason i download a blockchain for Bitbay and BLK is because I want to make sure the data is 100% reliable (like blockchain.info). I used 3 different apis for Bithalos balance checking to avoid mistakes at all costs since these are contracts and we cant afford unreliable info.

HOWEVER, since Im coding a decentralized exchange, technically im going to have to start relying on online block explorers for altcoins. Plus, i dont see why bitbay cant do both once that functionality is complete? Just a though. I'm trying to not promise more than I already have on my plate though.

Some sales have been done on the Bitbay market. Someone sold a tire pressure gauge, trading cards, cash for coins, fawcet contracts, stickers and promotional materials. So I think thats a pretty good start for our first year. Hell the only thing anyone ever bought with Bitcoin was a pizza! For like 10,000 btc haha

The reality is, I would LOVE coders. Did you know that I posted to find someone to simply build a cross platform blackcoind and bitbayd build on reddit and on a few job search platforms and found absolutely nobody?!?

It was sad, I have a hard time simply getting a damn build. Of course, Im going to build those myself but to get them cross platform and stable requires some testing and ive been working on other things.

I was in Cambodia, tried to hire, had 3 coders who didnt contribute a single line of code. Sad i know. I spent 1 month training them and after saw the sluggish speed of how they struggled and gave up on them. Two of them quit. They only really managed to build the daemon, get blackcoin and bitbay running and they practiced on some small projects i gave them that took them forever. A thing one of them took an entire week to do, i did in one hour.

So I tried to look into India, was there for a month, but found out that i need to apply for a 3 month or more visa from the usa and India doesnt take bribes anymore haha. So that was out. Plus they are ballbusters anyways. I was concerned about the training issue and time commitment since I knew I had to produce markets asap... ( so i did Cheesy ).

I tried hiring a guy from Blackcoin under a BlackHalo contract for a basic refactor. At first it was good, he did a decent amount of work (proof that double deposit works!) BUT he started to get lazy after 2 weeks. He had a bunch of things changed with file management, cleaned up some stuff etc. The problem was, I was working on the code at the same time and we werent using github. SO he was frustrated since I didnt merge the code, he asked for about 5 time extensions and eventually disappeared completely. So the contract ended.

Unfortunately, I ended up not using a single line since I already refactored the file mangement in Halo core myself.

So I also tried hiring a few other crypto guys but they take weeks to respond and just suck. They either dont understand my source code, or are obviously planning to pad their hours. (where are the good cheap ones hiding?)

I'm looking into hiring here in Mexico... since I'm not far. And the quality and price might be alright plus i speak spanish. But its very hard to say again if they will understand the code or bitcoin. Coders are hard to find. Bitcoin coders are impossible to find. Cheap bitcoin coders are like unicorns... they dont exist.

So, I'm stuck coding alone. And by the way your assessment was correct. The amount of work for one coder is insane and unhealthy! But we've made it this far, this client is like 10000 times more badass than any client out there. Its STILL the only client in the world that does contracts, still the only one with true decentralized markets, and like 10 other cool features.

On a side note about marketing, to bring in some extra cash and to help a buddy out, I spent the past week making some marketing bots for a friend... and maybe they can be useful for crypto related projects. Mostly for forums, online promotion social media... all automation bots. The thing is, I'm not so interested in marketing heavily until the pegging is complete so we dont worry about volatility.

By the way, are you on slack? Its been a bit quiet there lately.
1215  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 08, 2016, 11:50:24 AM
David, what were your thoughts ^^
I didn't know if you missed the post or not?

Hey a late reply, I was out of town for the weekend. Yeah as far as integrating the reputation system for merchants with staking and miners its not a good idea since they are two decentralized protocols done in completely different ways. So its hard to integrate the reputation system in that way per se. However, if you had a series of servers or master nodes that collected reputation data or spot prices or things like that then that might be something to look in to down the road.
1216  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 03, 2016, 11:04:49 PM
Is it possible to integrate BitBay with this?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1316199.0;topicseen

I guess it's possible since we have CLTV, but the question is why?
We have been able to do the same thing with our smart contracts for a year already. Actually I think our smart contracts are superior. The solution you are linking to requires every participating coin to have CLTV. The BitBay client can be used to trade any coin safe and decentralized.

Smart contracts are really nothing to do with it, its about cross chain transfers to exchange the usage of services on one blockchain with the token value of another, or perhaps simply trading one token for another trustlessly.

What he was referring to was microtrading like how I've proposed to trade in NightTrader. The proposal is in Blackcoin to set a deposit and trade 1/2 the deposit of any two currencies until the coins are traded. The only drawback is speed and lots of transactions on the blockchain.

I guess its worth adding that when we fork for staking, we will have locktimes, so checklocktimeverify can be used to do AT
1217  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: AT and CLTV - Truly disruptive technology! on: February 03, 2016, 11:04:18 PM
anyways, just keep up the good work... cool stuff, I support all the devs who are actually working and building Smiley
1218  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: AT and CLTV - Truly disruptive technology! on: February 03, 2016, 11:03:24 PM
Hey I've noticed you are talking about decentralized coin trading. You can do this using BitHalo, BlackHalo or Bitbay using double deposit escrow smart contracts.

Basically both parties make deposits and trade 1/2 the value of the contract over and over again until target is reached.

Example:
Both parties deposit $100 in Blackcoin using Halo
Bob sends $50 - $50 - $50 etc... until target
Alice sends $50 - $50 -$50 etc... until target

Its the proposal for my decentralized exchange "NightTrader" where the collateral will be in Blackcoin

I like AT also, i just wanted to mention this.

The whole point of mentioning this is because decentralized exchange was always possible just nobody wrote the nice UI for it yet.

You can also do an exchange thats not fully decentralized using green addresses.

Basically you just have every user set up a 2 of 2 account with the exchange and then they approve each TX. This is good because the exchange cant take your full balance but it involves trust because the exchange can pose as the counterparty and take individual transactions. Note that you can use sighash single for your change address which gives the exchange a blank check.

Lastly there is the lightning network, similar to AT still depending on locktimes but no blockchain bloat. More decentralized ways of lightning is daisy chain the accounts for example:
Bob/Alice  Alice/John John/Jane Jane/Joe etc...
Then you are only routing IOUS, the exchange only needs to pair users, from there users use the famous transaction replacement techniques and locktimes for micropayment channels, they only route each others debt without need for a centralized "Mt Box" but you can also have the exchange be a "Mt Box" but the protocol is considerably more complex

The point being DDE is the only way that all coins can currently do decentralized exchange until they all start using locktimes.
1219  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 03, 2016, 10:49:25 AM

And also it creates some really interesting possibilities for transfers of liquidity for frozen coins. Similar to loans, trustless bonds and futures, etc.


Yea I can't wait to see the possibilities that pan out from these ideas ^^

And I love that you see the importance of creating a voting system so as not to send the coin down a dead end path like bitcoin and litecoin seem to be on.
It shouldn't be up to a handful of people to decide what new innovations should be incorporated into the coin.


This brings up another question:
The vote can be done by majority, but majority votes are hard to calculate. Here are the two ways I'm thinking of coding it would like to hear what you guys think:

The first way is to give the vote to the miner who wins the block. Since everyone has a fair chance of winning a block, this lets anyone who is staking make the decision. This way is provably fair since staking is fair. Its harder to game and you burn less funds. However, this might be less democratic if you consider the people with the most coins usually get the blocks. However, the people with the most coins have more at stake and perhaps the votes matter to them more anyways. ALSO this benefits users who have frozen coins and gives them this added benefit of being the bank.

The second way is based on a voting address. Basically you can cast votes in the client, send a small payment to a voting address. This might be a more democratic way to vote but it has the following challenge:
Anyone can create an address, so doing the vote by address can be gamed
also if you do the votes by simply counting them, then that encourages spam
So if this method is used, votes have to be measure by balance. The more money in the account the more weight the vote has. But this has some drawbacks, users dont always keep all their funds in one account so imagine voting from 10 of accounts just to change the interest rates
Also to prevent people from switching accounts, I would have to make the votes happen at an exact block otherwise people would vote twice(since they could move the money to another address).
This means to vote you have to be connected and miners will usually get the vote anyways. Also the most troublesome part of this is, miners would have to calculate everyones balance which means they would be running a full node. (Balance checking is not so easy unless you build an index which makes the blockchain take up tons of space)

So, I think voting can be done by miners. Its clean and simple and pretty democratic. And because i dont think we are going to change interest every block, we can probably have more than one miner vote. If we change interest twice per day, then we will get about 720 votes anyways for each interest rate change.

Yes , miners would be a good method to cast vote for consensus . Would voting twice a day be necessary ,maybe once a week will get a solid interest rate which would give good enough time to gather up volume.

So miners voting method would work like this ,you leave your client staking then it grants you or allows you to make a selected desired interest rate or would it be in increments of some value ?

Basically yes, when you are staking you would be asked to cast a vote for inflation, deflation or no change in the wallet. No vote means no change. You can always change the vote later. When you are staking it will automatically cast your vote just by sending one of the outputs to the voting address. The only reason to change interest rates once per day would be so we can see results within a month or two. Since if we all choose to deflate first (which I assume we will) then it will take about 2 months to move the rate to 60% deflated or more. If we vote twice a day we can see that target sooner.

Also the question of how much should it be per day, should it be 1% or less?

I like the idea of an aggressive interest rate change because the markets are volatile and prices can swing pretty quickly so a faster interest rate would be able to absorb that. However, there is a question of when we can achieve stability and what that target price is.

I honestly doubt we can know the target price or the target amount of deflation because that is all going to depend on demand and what exchanges we get on.

So if for example, we change interest once per day. Miners find a block every minute more or less. So we should see about 1440 votes per day. Some miners would be voting more than once obviously which is fine since they win more blocks, so they deserve it.

I'm going to guess the price will really shoot up very high when we get to 90% deflation and more. But the market might surprise us and do it sooner. Then again, I can hold a special vote in my wallet for changing the interest rate potentially if its really needed. Those types of things will need to be decided eventually.

Also, its probably worth pointing out that the rate changes will probably not be compound. I'm thinking of making it a linear curve. So 1% for the first 50% then maybe .5% for the next 20% and so forth. But it might just be compound. Or I might have it be part of a parabolic equation that makes it move at 1% for a while and then as it approaches zero the rate of deflation slows down exponentially until it hits the maximum.

Because the system is fractional(not based on decimals or floating point numbers), I probably have to mark coins in billionths. Since you have at least 1 billion coins. Although I'm not sure I want to do that yet either. It really comes down to math and protocol.

As for time to gather volume, thats a good question. If we started at 100% inflated and just voted to deflate 1% per day, then how long will it take to see the volume spike? I'm going to guess that will happen as the people notice the price gradually rising. But maybe if it was slower it would also be better?! These are all really good questions. Again, I'm not sure anyone knows the best answer here. We are in complete NEW territory. This has never been done in the history of finance before. Although there are examples of countries doing market pegs... munti would know more about that than I would though.
1220  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Official BitBay Thread |Smart Contracts Wallet UPDATE|Decentralized Marketplace on: February 03, 2016, 08:16:46 AM

And also it creates some really interesting possibilities for transfers of liquidity for frozen coins. Similar to loans, trustless bonds and futures, etc.


Yea I can't wait to see the possibilities that pan out from these ideas ^^

And I love that you see the importance of creating a voting system so as not to send the coin down a dead end path like bitcoin and litecoin seem to be on.
It shouldn't be up to a handful of people to decide what new innovations should be incorporated into the coin.


This brings up another question:
The vote can be done by majority, but majority votes are hard to calculate. Here are the two ways I'm thinking of coding it would like to hear what you guys think:

The first way is to give the vote to the miner who wins the block. Since everyone has a fair chance of winning a block, this lets anyone who is staking make the decision. This way is provably fair since staking is fair. Its harder to game and you burn less funds. However, this might be less democratic if you consider the people with the most coins usually get the blocks. However, the people with the most coins have more at stake and perhaps the votes matter to them more anyways. ALSO this benefits users who have frozen coins and gives them this added benefit of being the bank.

The second way is based on a voting address. Basically you can cast votes in the client, send a small payment to a voting address. This might be a more democratic way to vote but it has the following challenge:
Anyone can create an address, so doing the vote by address can be gamed
also if you do the votes by simply counting them, then that encourages spam
So if this method is used, votes have to be measure by balance. The more money in the account the more weight the vote has. But this has some drawbacks, users dont always keep all their funds in one account so imagine voting from 10 of accounts just to change the interest rates
Also to prevent people from switching accounts, I would have to make the votes happen at an exact block otherwise people would vote twice(since they could move the money to another address).
This means to vote you have to be connected and miners will usually get the vote anyways. Also the most troublesome part of this is, miners would have to calculate everyones balance which means they would be running a full node. (Balance checking is not so easy unless you build an index which makes the blockchain take up tons of space)

So, I think voting can be done by miners. Its clean and simple and pretty democratic. And because i dont think we are going to change interest every block, we can probably have more than one miner vote. If we change interest twice per day, then we will get about 720 votes anyways for each interest rate change.
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