I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

Man i agree so much on all accounts. Im aware of the reality of the world. Too much. But when i have to be passionate about something money is not the prime motivator. So im an idealist at heart but am completely a realist in my objective knowledge.

I know that 3rd world wont adopt high tech and i know that 1st world will go to whatever is popular.

They dont call them sheeple for nothing! No offense to the sheeple of course, the media has an iron grip on their balls!! In a vice grip. Their minds are dominated by journalism... even fake science.

So can anyone compete with Ebay? No of course not. But things change something will take its place.

What i would like to see is a gateway for Ebay resellers so you can buy through Halo from a person willing to transact on their behalf on Ebay.

But even if that existed its true the masses wont want that. Eventually the masses will get tired of breathing and robots will do that for them too. Its not enough that the tv does your thinking for you. It must eat our food for us and breathe for us. Sad but true.

An ico would be nice but not unless im done with these projects.

Hey someone pointed this thread out. Why dont you use BitHalo or BlackHalo for the escrow? Its 2 party double deposit escrow no need for an agent, no centralized server. To be honest it shocks me that these debates take place when unbreakable contracts are an option. If you pm me i can even give you source to build with. Its in python so easy to read and build. Deposits can be small if you guys are patient enough to microtrade. Example: deposit .5 btc each then trade .25 .25 .25 etc until target is reached. Seriously, why do people still use extremely risky otc? Bithalo.org

Well there is so many things I could say in response to this.

What you say is true. But consider the fact on E-bay people constantly get empty boxes and still are
forced to pay. Paypal payments get reversed and how can Ebay know who is telling the truth?

They GUESS thats how.

Notice in USA they hold 25% of the worlds prison population, 85% in the prison for victimless crimes
(collecting rainwater, selling weed, not paying taxes, permit violations the list goes on)

So i think there is a major confusion here about what is legal and what is MORAL. Two totally separate
things. I can make the argument that jail is barbaric, disgusting and immoral.

Regardless, you are right. Society will not adopt new ideas so easily and in the case of your criminals
they do seem to prefer violence, it makes them feel important or something.

You have the oxycotin scumbag billionaires who are basically just legalized heroin pushers.
For people who think the line is grey its not, the world is just run by the self righteous.
Im sorry for injecting "idealism" into this but its true.


With that said, lets look at ways double deposit solves the problem of DECEPTION which is societies
biggest problem. NOTE: It only solves the problem of deception if adopted and like you said
human psychology makes this a very low probability since propaganda comes first.


Two parties involved, victim and perpetrator. The victim goes to court and cries that they
were harmed. The perp has a good lawyer and wins. Judges, juries, hell even 1000s of people can
be wrong in a good frame job! I can think of a good frame job that happened in the month of September
*cough* *cough* and more than half the world would accuse the wrong party.

In essence the ONLY people who know the truth behind a crime is
TWO people. The victim and assialant. Nobody else knows.

So why not reduce commerce to that? They make deposits to prevent lying and cheating. Both parties
deposit to avoid extortion. The network itself can raise or lower deposit levels. And someone
who abuses that system will eventually become poor.

Here you switch society upside down. The rich people are no longer the liars and self-righteous.
No the rich people would be the HONEST hard workers. The liars would be poor because they
keep blowing up escrows and losing funds for themselves. Basic math.

There are many use cases besides "Dark markets" where Halo is instantly valuable, maybe in the tune
of billions of dollars. Here are a few:

International Trade and Shipping (no more expensive insurance, deposits cover daily volume, no more
lost shippments, no more tricks)

Telcom (no more finding escrows, making complicated wire routes, finding banks, dealing between countries)

Outsourcing (no more procrastinating workers, lies about credentials, poor performance... all gone thanks to the fear of loss)

Cash for Coins (no more local bitcoins, countries that cant get BTC now CAN and with low fees P2P)

Barter (impovershed countries with no trust can use deposits at kiosks and trade commodities instead of cash)

International Business (countries with bad legal system, opposing laws, can find middle ground do trusted business)

So i think we should realize those industries need this, but they don't know how bad they need it.


When the tree is rotting at the root, you don't clip the leaves you CURE THE ROOT. Even if the people
resist this change, it must happen even if not 100 years from now because things cannot stay broken forever.
If we don't use the best protocols then who will?

Whats not concise? The protocol was explained from many angles with diagrams as well.

Most crucially, the software exists, works and can be used. Actions speak louder than words. The code speaks for itself.

I think the writepaper could use an update however since its been 2 years and now that its fully coded i can speak from experience in retrograde.

The cash example refers to people who buy bitcoin. Traditionally Bitcoin is bought otc or through escrow. But otc is dangerous they can keep your cash and not send the bitcoins. And an escrow agent could steal funds. Furthermore, an escrow agent cannot truly calidate if deception took place or thr cash never arrived.

So bob wants to buy 100 usd of bitcoin from alice lets say.

So Bob deposits 100 usd in btc (to prevent himself from extorting from alice)
And Alice advances 100 usd in btc for the purchase plus 100 usd deposit

Now Alice is out 200 Bob is out 100 locked into an escrow that each of them has 50% control. They agreed that the time limit is 2 weeks. If this time limit expires they both destroy the escrow resulting in loss for both parties. Since that cant be prevented they must work together.

Now Bob sends 100 in cash via western union. Note this is the first time in history WU can be used trustless without an escrow agent or laws tacitly as a deterrent.

Once Alice gets the 100 she is still -100 because of her deposit and advanced payment. Bob is -200 because his deposit and cash advance.

Now they release escrow since they agree the deal is complete. Bob gets his deposit back and 100 usd in btc and Alice gets her deposit back so now she has 100 usd in cash in exchange for her btc. The sale of btcoins is complete. Both parties are happy and nobody needed a government or third party looming over the deal. And more importantly, at no point could Bob or Alice steal from this deal or try to lie to the other because if they had they both would have lost.

Lke ive said before as well deposits dont always have to be equal to the value. They can be 10% the value since any deposit in this deal would be a net loss for a thief. However make the deposits high is best when dealing with an untrusted party. You deposit thus reflects your level of trust.

Either way its a healthy debate. We don't have the money to market it, you are right. And maybe we never will
but somebody had to make DDE based markets. Think of it this way, Napster was a P2P music sharing platform
and it was the "first" and eventually failed. BUT Napster paved the way for newer and better platforms.
You know, Kazaa came next, then E-Mule, then eventually uTorrent. Haha we grew up with this stuff

I really admire and respect what you do at sys! The fact that we have such different business models
in my opinion doesn't really qualify us as competitors. And even if we were, this is all open source
so I hope you and other projects take ideas as you need them.

If we are all about decentralization then eventually crypto can go beyond "X Coin, Y Coin, Z Coin"

So all the good tech will get integrated into the projects that care enough to build it out.
Your project clearly qualifies as one of them.

I've said it before and will say again. As long as the idea of DDE survives, I've done my job.

Society needs to evolve like you said...

1st they need to understand what bitcoin even is
2nd they need to actually USE bitcoin instead of gamble on it
3rd they need to start caring about using platforms that are resistant to theft and DDOS
4th they would have to start looking at altcoins
5th they would need to use altcoins
6th they would then use a trusted escrow (syscoin)
7th they would realize the power of two party escrow/DDE/Nash Equilibrium/Ultimatum Game/etc

Society has a lot of growing to do. And honestly there is like 50 more steps missing from that ladder.

Because in order for them to go to trustless tech, they need to lose trust in escrow/merchants/governments
I've pretty much lost trust in REALITY hahaha so it made sense that I would go and make something like this.

LOOK at how Mt Gox, Mintpal, BTER, etc etc... EVERY place that was centralized or had an escrow went down
ALL of them.

And what do people do? They come back for more punishment! Still no decentralized exchange!
So it will take some time for people to finally decide that trustless is better until humanity matures enough to stop telling lies.

Hopefully the peg will draw enough attention that people will market it for us. And we are easily months away from that.

By the way, you are adding a pegging system? Is this a voluntary parking system using checklocktimeverify?
Or is it something more exotic?

All that matters are your actions, not your reputation. You are your own judge, whom you face daily.

It should be noted bitcointalk is (controlled opposition) ... there is more to those "fake profiles" on here than people think. They are pushing govt agenda... just sayin...

And there is a little known secret in this world... the more hated the person the more likely they did something RIGHT (Stan Meyer, Royal Rife)

Let me leave you with this:
   
When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t your father, or mother, or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

He’s the fellow to please – never mind all the rest
For he’s with you, clear to the end
And you’ve passed your most difficult, dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

Hey saw this a bit late, YES the Buy/Sell anything template has auctions, reverse auctions and multiple shipping options and billing styles

Currently you can still sell things with the "custom" template but this is way better and more user friendly

Also take note of the current existing coins for cash template which is like a decentralized localbitcoins with a low volume price tracker

You are wrong on all accounts here. The markets are PEER TO PEER. They leverage Bitmessage and don't use a blockchain. This can scale to any level since the contract data is only store about markets that you care about and Bitmessage only holds 2 days in memory and I've done a custom build to allow determined sellers to resubmit orders.

So yeah there is no bloat. Thats the POINT. I'm not pumping Bitbay, I've never even sold a single coin. I'm simply completing Halo/BlackHalo/BitHalo/Bitbay as promised. Maybe you don't realize this but I worked on BitHalo for free for almost 2 years before i was into the Bitbay project.

The pegging is a serious feature you should also read up more on before insulting people without a technical background.

What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets.

That might be the Qt version... munti you were thinking of Halos version number.

Thanks sidhujag, can you please forward me the info they sent you on skype or email so i can possibly register? Also will they want me to post full source or is obfuscated okay? (its only changed variable names i can even send it to you)

WE have been discussing it, I'm not even sure how to do it yet. They didn't really explain well how to do it anywhere on the site

Botnets can mess up a lot of things, sending fake blockchain info for one, messing with the network, ddos, so many things

It sort of bloats every blockchain. In fact, it won't bloat Blackcoins Blockchain since they are only used for deposit. I guess
we can say they are the only ones who wouldn't get bloated. But its not so bad, its just we do 10-20 times the size
of a normal transaction. Only if it was insanely popular would it start to show in the networks of coins.

A new system is needed but nobody supports it. If Bitcoin doesn't have locktimes and other coins dont then only centralized solutions work
That is, centralized or NT protocol.

The microtrading is the best way, but you know since someone holds that second key its a liability.
(running an exchange is asking for trouble EVENTUALLY by state regulators, if its not decentralized its not worth the money perhaps?)

AT and Lightning don't share anything in common despite both needing lock times. The protocol is so much different.

Lightning is the only true way to do it if they all had AT. But lots of coins would have to want to do it.

Maybe there is even some weird sidechain implementation for decentralized exchange but i cant think of anything off the top
of my head that would make sense. If its not simple then it probably doesn't work.

Until sidechains are even proven secure (I believe there was some sort of issue with 51% attack on Bitcoin and messing up sidechains)
and there is other coins trying to get them right, so this is all hypothetical.

Sidechains are over hyped. Besides don't we risk security by moving to one? I do like Lisks thing but it all needs to be validated as secure first

For now, Blackcoins microtrader is the best way to do it. And besides, bloat is an issue EVERY coin will face soon enough
Lets just say, it doesn't bloat the chain too much. Not any more than does Bitcoin gambling and nowhere near Etheriums bloat.
BOTNET is the sleeping giant that could crush all coins

I never left

They didn't pay me but im a man of my word. Anyways, Bitcoin wont add checklocktimeverify... or did they? I'm pretty sure they didn't do it yet. The bitcoin "foundation" doesnt do much. Even Satoshi came out of hiding to complain about that one.


The thing is, NightTrader as a microtrader would just have BLK as a reserve.

IF these projects complete then we can look into raising funds for a lightning network perhaps who knows.

Its enough work to just get the microtrader working honestly.

Well currently slack is helping me find bloggers and places where we can publish more articles
also I've been editing some articles they intend to publish (somewhere)

As for the Buying and selling of coins at Abritrage I LOVE the idea. Did you know that the
client already has a template for this? The buy/sell coins template actually will track
the price of the coin in fiat by converting to btc and usd. You can set your preferred
funding method and can let it automatically track market prices. It was intended for low volume.
Think of it like a decentralized "local bitcoin" without the need for a middleman and trustless

Decentralized exchange was promised to Blackcoin. The NightTrader exchange was supposed to be
based on deposits. Although they did not pay me, I want to finish that project as I like it.
The problem and delay with it has really been choosing a protocol. There are 3-4 decent methods
on how to do it which I can list below:
    
1) The original NightTrader concept of MICROTRADING: This method was basically to use Blackcoin
as the deposits and trade 50% of the deposits over and over again until funding is reached in
any two currencies. VERY similar to the Barter Template. Example

Bob wants to but 5 btc of Bitbay from Alice
1 btc worth of Blackcoin is deposited both sides
.5 btc of Bitbay is traded for .5 btc of Bitcoin 10 times
Now 5 btc has been traded deposits are released
 
This works with ANY two currencies and does not require any coin to fork. Thus is the perfect current
solution

There are DRAWBACKS though and here is some of them:
Its too slow! Nobody wants to wait for 10 bitcoin transactions which could take days if network is slow
It can bloat the blockchain if the Exchange is too popular (since there is more transactions)
If the price of Blackcoin goes too low during a trade it would be beneficial to blow up deposits
Transacting with multiple people in the order book becomes annoying (think 10 contracts to fund a few btc)

The following methods dont need to rely solely on Blackcoin or Xcoin but have their own drawbacks too
2) The next method is ATOMIC TRADING. This wonderful little trick is to use locktimes to put the solution
to a hash problem in your transaction so that it unlocks another transaction. Both parties use separate
locktimes so they can redeem their funds if the corresponding locks arent sent.

Advantages over microtrading:
You dont need more than one transaction
You dont need to involve 3 currencies

Disadvantages:
Its still a little slow, Bob and Alice need to give lots of time in case of power outages plus they still need
to wait for several confirmations
Checklocktimeverify is NOT in more than a few coins Blackcoin Bitbay Shadowcash Peter Todds coin etc
I dont even think Bitcoin has locktimes

3) The next method is Multisignature exchange its CENTRALIZED but many times more SECURE than normal exchanges
This was one of the serious candidates for NT exchange but it doesn't really rely on BLK it just uses the name NT

The way it works is simple:
The exchange holds a 2nd key to ALL accounts
To perform trades the exchange uses signature hashes like SIGHASH NONE or SIGHASH SINGLE to have
users sign only the coins they intend on trading as a Blank Check
To secure the blank check the exchange puts in a small nominal amount of coins like 5500 satoshis

Then the exchange is free to do very fast exchanging in the form of IOUS and only on withdraw do you
pay the people you owe.

Because the exchange is only 50% holder of the account, they can not steal funds without your key.

Advantages:
thousands of times more secure and better than a regular exchange
almost trustless but not quite (see below)
a lot faster than the concepts above

Disadvantages:
If a hacker somehow got all the servers keys they could try to find out which private key corresponded
to their multisignature address. Then they can withdraw renegging on their IOUS.
However the above attack only steals the amount of coins they traded. But if they were a whale this
could still be devastating. Its will be hard for them to time double spending though.
Also, if the exchange wanted to be evil they could sign IOUS to the wrong addresses taking funds
Also, the exchange could pretend to be a user and make trades and still take funds
Also, the exchange could lose their keys in a fire or HD crash and any coin without locktimes will lose their
funds so the exchange would have to have a way of backing up their orderbook and keys on paper
The biggest disadvantage is LIABILITY. Because its not decentralized there is much responsibility even if no hack occurs

4) The last and best way for decentralized exchange is the LIGHTNING NETWORK and P2P MICROTRADING
This is a newer idea of mine. Its basically forming a Lightning network in each coin and microtrading
between neighbors until the needed amount is reached. Because a lightning network does not report
to the blockchain, they can fund using the most trivial amounts.

How does this work?
Accuonts are daisy chained
Bob->Alice, Alice->John, John->Frank
For Bob to send to Frank he routes his debt through Alice and John

It can also be daisy chained with servers and withdraw tricks Bob->Server Server->Alice

Advantages:
Its probably the best way to do decentralized exchange
Lightning networks completely reduce bloat on blockchains
There are other advantages

Drawbacks:
Since they have to include multiple peers and possibly multiple servers, there could be some
latency but its not much maybe a few seconds at the most.
It requires that all coins have checklocktimeverify and its own lightning network
Its too much work to get it done really well.

SO thats the whole thing. Blackcoins NT will still probably get made with microtrading
despite being not as good as AT or Lightning. Its decentralized and thats what i like about it.
I'm willing to sacrifice speed for security any day. But it may not be popular since traders
will want speed. And it does bloat the blockchain with smaller transactions and peers must
stay connected for a few days to finish some larger trades. Also they will need Blackcoin
and the deposit levels adds an extra amount of complexity to the exchange. The orderbook
can be centralized to help a little with speed. IF there are trolls we can require a BURN for
trades.

Hope that helps!

How do I contact Poloniex owner Directly?!

Assertion failed is not a bitbay error its a common qt error.

Just need to follow the instructions here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2547

or even here:
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12997/assertion-failed-when-i-try-to-open-bitcoin-wallet


Just make sure you always back up your wallet.dat