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Koinify states 50% of all Factoms are for early investors and contributors, how can you know that before the sales ended? Are you duplicating the pot of whatever you raise for this group?
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Thanks for your response. How is that different from what Swarm did with the Round 1 participants?
Will SWARM holders automatically receive a portion of the crowdsale coins from each of the projects in Round 2?
You're welcome! Swarm tried to do this in Round 1 as well, but the lawyers said no to a lot of ideas because of legal issues. This is a big problem to a lot of projects in the cryptospace. Swarm decided to get a lot of legal advice and partnered with some universities as well to try to get this thing solved. Here's a long document about the legal part. http://www.scribd.com/doc/255347578/SWARM-Working-Paper-Distributed-Networks-and-the-LawSo, after that research project, Swarm worked on an answer to all these legal questions. And the Distributive Collaborative Organisation (DCO) came out as the answer. And yes, the tokens will be distributed to the SWARMCoin-holders (in a counterwallet), they can also be bought directly using a creditcard or BTC. Even some of the Round 1 projects could be changed to the DCO-model, after that some of these projects could distribute their coins as well. Still reading through it, but looks like Swarm and Coin Center have put together an excellent analysis there. Also came across this document from Coin Center http://coincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BritoShadabCastillo.pdf for anyone interested in the legalities of issuing crypto equity style tokens. |
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How much overlap exists between the functionality provided by Factom and that provided by Counterparty?
6mm |
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Thanks for the reminder, probably best to shut that one down! Thread closed! |
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Hey have you guys seen the leader of SWARM came into the Counterparty nomination forums and basically said he thinks we have no future? What do you guys think? I personally responded in the Q&A section (my username there is simba6)
I'm Joel Dietz, Swarm founder. I have put together a document that I'm circulating privately at the moment in order to collect critical feedback and decide if it is worth running.
My main consideration is this. I'm interested in Counterparty becoming a healthy and growing ecosystem. This means that it needs all of the following:
(1) Excited developers building on the platform
(2) Business potential, either current or future
(3) Competitive advantage vis-a-vis other platforms offering the same or similar services
(4) Engaged community promoting the platform
Obviously I've already committed a lot of time and energy to this ecosystem, but it's not entirely clear to me that it is growing at the pace necessary to be competitive.
First, developer evangelism while perhaps better than any other 2.0 project on the Bitcoin blockchain is not nearly at the same level as other off-chain projects (NXT, BitShares, NuBits, Ethereum). I estimate that there are something like ~10 developer actively building something on the project and none of the bigger players are releasing back open source code.
A good example of this is Swarm, we've had a strong desire to contribute back open source code but have been inhibited by the fact that there is a strong internal competitive nature to the ecosystem. Compare the slogans of the different folks now working around the ecosystem: cryptoequity (Swarm), smart securities (Symbiont), cryptoequity (Overstock), smart corporations (Koinify).
Can you tell what the difference is? Probably not. I certainly can't. Although Swarm was the first to describe or offer any of this, it makes for a fairly cluttered ecosystem.
Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.
The net result that I've observed is that many of the companies in the space are less committed to Counterparty than they once were. For example Koinify, who even now has a board seat on the Counterparty foundation, is not doing any of their announced upcoming sales on Counterparty. The only one they did, GEMS, was from someone who had already decided to use Counterparty in advance of the sale.
So in general people are making only a loose commitment to the underlying technology and ecosystem, which makes sense from a business perspective but is disappointing to me since in general when I started with Counterparty I invested a fair bit of effort and time in an effort to see the whole ecosystem grow.
My general feeling about Counterparty at the moment is disappointment. I don't have a specific desire to invest a lot of time and energy promoting something that is going to ultimately turn into a second place solution. I do have a large desire to open source code and provide other resources back to the community, but don't feel like I can do that in the current environment with the risk of taking a major economic loss on my part as a result.
In any case, all of these are factors in my decision to run or not run for the Counterparty board. If they can't be resolved, I honestly don't think Counterparty has a future.
Also, although I think it is nice to have a "community director," what is really needed is not simply some idea of 'community,' but some more long-term strategic planning to build out the whole ecosystem. In my opinion so far that's been neglected -- and the XCP price shows it.
OK apologies in advance for the rant, it's meant in defense of the admiral Counterparty team, who at their own cost have built something incredible, functional and leading in the cryptosphere yet are getting talked down by a guy who's built next to nothing in a year at considerable expense to investors. To me Counterparty is more interesting than Bitcoin itself, allowing business or individuals to produce tokens that can be used for anything from representing loans to business equity, whilst providing the mechanism to instantly administrate repayments or send dividends. This gives the opportunity to offer a value proposition to investors where Bitcoin fails. Joel and his small team of young web designers took over $1m in fundraising a year or so ago to create an unfinished website. The proposition itself, was for them to syphon off as much cash as they can from anyone offering or purchasing crypto equities in exchange for using a platform they had yet to start (isn't Bitcointalk better for this purpose anyway? works fine, did for them, Counterparty, Mastercoin and many others! plus has massive amounts of established traffic to target prospective investors!). It really is amazing what a non nonsensical 8 page PDF filled with pictures and charts that don't tally up can do! A respectable business startup should take personal risk, sacrifice determination and passion ala Counterparty. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with raising funds to meet a goal but Joel and his team were aiming for the $21m mark nearly ten times Oculus Rift funding goals! seriously WTF! Joel & co are extremely lucky to have been supported so heavily in their efforts. To put things in perspective I've got friends locally here in Chiangmai who are fantastic web designers with vastly more experience and their commercial rates are only in the $15 an hour bracket, $600 a week. OK it's a particular cheap place to live but come on, a $600 a week subsidy should be plenty enough for any young group of coders, just out of uni to follow their dreams. If you put the amount they raised, into man hours of graft at that rate, it works out that they have about 70k hours of coding (8 years!) during which they're certainly not going to starve anywhere on the planet. What Joel and his team have achieved in a year with a million dollars, I could pay a couple of friends locally to do for a few $k in far fewer months, pretty shameful. More shameful and a testament to the amount of front he's got, is that he's spreading muck about some of the most dedicated and on the money coders, who have built the most functional platform to date for the purpose of distributing custom tokens. How he's got the nerve, or even feels that his opinion should be considered relevant a year after raising so much money, and producing so little himself really is beggars belief. Pretty funny! Joel you should perhaps reflect on the stark contrast and speed between your own heavily funded work, and the work the Counterparty team have produced at their own cost, in a similar time period. |
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Interesting to come across this project and hope it's going well for you guys!
I'm also starting a business in VR, and have in mind that if it's necessary for me to raise funds later in the year to upscale the business, I would likely do it by offering some sort of crypto-equity too.
I noticed on your Twitter account, you list my home city of Chiangmai as one of your locations. If you're around in Chiangmai and fancy a beer and a chat about our mutual interests some time, hit me up!
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I sniper bid 0.26  |
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interested in buying a bitcoin related twitter account with a large following, let me know if you've got an account like this you're interested in selling.
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Will swarm allow funding in fiat currencies?
Yes, you can use a creditcard or other payments on Stripe (they are integrated on the website). That will make it a lot more easy for people who don't want to buy BTC first. Now you can create a Counterwallet and buy coins from the project you like and get them sent to your wallet. Thanks, also what is the reason for such a short window to apply, applications close only 4 days after the original announcement right? |
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Will swarm allow funding in fiat currencies?
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Has anyone got a copy of the original PDF the swarm team presented this idea with? it's called "swarm-booklet". The original dropbox links expired or been removed.
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I think if you're at all capable of grasping bitcoin, the whole concept, in the first place, there's little damn chance you're at risk of being mentally ill. The required level of intelligence to understand bitcoin, the foundation of bitcoin, the blockchain, the point, the nuances of economics, and the dynamics of bitcoin is not a sign of a weak mind susceptible to mental illness. The idiots in comment sections who continually call people names, troll these and similar forums hollering bitcoin's end times and have nothing else to do but post over and over day in and day out trying to warn everyone against it, it's in its "death throws" as one put it in a comments section earlier - now those ones are soft in the head and could probably make do with a visit to a psychiatrist.  this....especially as we have been non educated about what currency is, that is Fiat is just given as a fait accompli. In 2004 I gave a lecture to my fellow law of banking elective takers in a top 20 law school in the world, and their eyes glazed over when I started to explain Fiat to them, CRR, FRB etc...hell I had to phone the central bank just to confirm everything I had said was right. Satoshi has now put that squarely in the discourse. FRB/Central banking is not always bad, but it is almost always corrupted without competition. Competition to the state monopoly is a facet of BTC. Can we please confirm this chain of events. 1) 11 years ago you were giving a lecture to your fellow "law of banking elective takers" in one of the worlds 20 best law schools. 2) As your fellow law of banking elective takers started getting sleepy, you decided to call the central bank on speaker phone and repeat the lecture to the telephone operator who confirmed your lecture as valid to the class?! |
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I have a sneaking suspicion Mark Kapeles is going to limp out of court from all these criminal mastermind endeavors in a gimp like fashion akin to Kevin Spaceys character in the usual suspects, only to spark up a smoke and propel his body in a vault like fashion into the passenger seat of his hot supermodel honeys awaiting sports car! The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYXXhn9fMYs&html5=1 |
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... I used bitcoin for my business when it was around $5 fairly stable and generally moving upwards, was a bit of a gamble then but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now and nor would any serious business...
So you think merchants should only accept bitcoin for payment when the price is trending up, but avoid it completely when trending down? How interesting... quite a businessman you must be there.  Fair enough I suppose for merchants that cash out straight away with services like bitpay it doesn't really matter, if you're selling something at a 15% margin and the price is likely to drop on you by 20% before you sell them then of course it does matter! |
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If anyone is feeling uneasy about the market, I suggest you consult the FAT twitter oracle, he should be able to feed you small snippets of vague meaningless information to boost his social media whilst predicting nothing particularly then after any likely positive or negative event twist to be an I told you so! |
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Fair enough, I was completely unaware the richest and most powerful people in the world got to where they are by investing in checks I stand corrected. So to clarify do you think people investing in Bitcoin today are a) the moronic victims of the last stage of a ponzi or b) the new elites!
God forbid you ever run a business outside of your little dreamworld mate!
3) Bitcoin is nothing like a cheque. Cheque's are not algorithmically limited by design, nor freely transmitted anywhere on the globe in an instant. I deleted that post quite a while ago shortly after posting as thought it was overly and unnecessarily obnoxious. Yes we're in agreement Bitcoin would certainly be useful as a payment system if the price was stable as said previously I used to use it myself, now I''m far safer using instant payment methods like alipay or paypal even wire transfers preferential. As you point out cheques are a bit out of date and slow and was merely used as an example of the lack of value proposition in a medium over which money is transmitted to highlight the same is true for bitcoin. I'm not sure why you see the algorithmic limit as meaningful as it's such a insanely huge number (100000000*13729850) |
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First speculation thread I have read for more than a year with some actual substance in OP.
Thank you!
Thanks TookDk, It wasnt so much of a speculation thread than it was a question or hope for some insight. It all played out in the end, Picked up just over 4,166 BTC @ $168 average yesterday, and started placing orders with my wood sellers from the forum here about an hour ago. So it looks like in summary i got a $186,000 usd discount on next weeks wood orders Not saying that bitcoin has ever done me wrong, but this week it did me VERY well as a merchant, and frequent user. At this point i realize i dont care who, what, or why the price crashed. I'm just glad i followed my gut and put up a giant buy wall yesterday. I might even increase my wood order quantities since i got such a hell of a deal. You can't be far off a forest |
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interesting 2 Warren Buffet quotes have been used on this page twisted to mean the exact opposite of their intention with the aid of confirmation bias!
so I should have waited till $1200 to buy? because that was what the real 'weight' is? gotcha.  I don't think you have got me. I've got no idea what the hell you think it means but it's this: Voting machine = folly of the market: what's trending, who's popular, who's unpopular Weight = The substance of a companies value determined by very real metrics such as revenue, profit, growth etc. not the public's silly opinion about its prospects in the short run (the voting machine). Weight isn't applicable to Bitcoin so it's just a part of the voting machine Weight isn't applicable? seriously? The actual day to day usage of bitcoin as it was intended and not as a speculative vehicle for trading is exactly what bestows underlying value. The basic law of supply and demand means that the more people that want/need it to use it, the higher this underlying value is. That's the weight. Thats why I bought, thats why I hold through all this bubble/pop nonsense. Nonsense that is entirely due to those people that bought because they thought it was a get rich scheme and it was 'popular'. Those same people that then bailed again because it turned out it wasn't, because it was 'unpopular'. They are the voters. If you can't see any value in bitcoin, it doesn't mean there is none. I expect many of these cycles before it ends (one way or another). Right now there is nothing to suggest it ends badly. Unless your whole premise is price. The basic law of supply and demand means you need increasing demand to sustain increasing price movements which is mathematically unsustainable. The speculative nature is a major flaw that can't be overcome, I used bitcoin for my business when it was around $5 fairly stable and generally moving upwards, was a bit of a gamble then but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now and nor would any serious business (just look at what happened to maidsafe from $10 million they tried to raise they lost 6.6 million in collecting worthless maidsafe tokens and now by holding bitcoin they've lost about a further $1.5 million of the $3.5 odd million the raised (clever guys). There's value to bitcoin in terms of it being a very speedy payment gateway, there's value to checks in the same respect but I wouldn't speculate on the value of a check beyond the paper it's printed on especially if the balance of the underlying account went up and down like a yoyo because of gaping flaws in the concept. I can't stand people that are invested but try and say "the price doesn't matter it's the technology" it's so full of shit, the techs free so if that's what your a fan of why are you gambling all your money on it! |
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