This multipool bastard is really starting to piss me off. He is playing with my money and that's not funny anymore. If there is someone with experience performing DDoS, please contact me in private message.
Lol, no need to go that far. Just don't use the pool, there are other ways of pool hopping where you can fine tune the coins your interested in. A better way to thwart the pool hoppers is to sell some ARG cheap on Cryptsy just before it's about to go low diff, to drive the profitability down, so the pool hoppers wont mine it, then you get more ARG as a mining reward which you can use to drive the price back up again  |
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It says 10 days worth of Jalapenos shipped, just no other models. |
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You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.
At no point did Avalon's product look competitive with BFL, remember the original BFL pricing was way less than it became in April after the price hike, eg. 1,500GH/s MiniRig was only $30k. Therefore the crystal ball aspect was largely irrelevant. As Avalon only took orders for a finite batch size, they simply had to wait until the batch was sold, and start the ball rolling. When something is scarce it sells fast, the units could have been a lot less powerful and they would have all sold. The USB Block Erupter, ASICminer is a classic example of not having to sell high MH/s items, the have sold thousands of the things. People are still queuing up to buy them, and they are incredibly expensive compared to just about every ASIC offering out there. |
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So people buying FPGAs were not greedy compared to people with GPUs, and people with Jalapenos were not greedy compared to people with FPGAs, but people buying Avalons and Singles are greedy compared to people with Jalapenos?? Hmm let me guess- you bought a Jalapeno...
Are you trying to make a point with the string of questions, or just having a pointless rant? The hash rate increase from GPU to FPGA was modest 600MH/s ->800MH/s, what it enabled you to do was use several FPGA chips for similar running cost due to the improved power consumption. The jump from FPGA to Jalapeno was significant 800MH/s->5,000MH/s, but not the order magnitude like the jump from FPGA to Avalon batch #1 was, 800MH/s -> 60,000MH/s |
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Nonsense. If 6GH/s rig would be profitable then buying 10x 6GH/s rig would be equally profitable or renting a small amount of commercial space and buying 1000x 6GH/s rigs. CPU and GPU rigs are constrained by the cludginess of trying to scale out. Rigs which communicate with a host over USB lack any such constraint.
Either way the network is going to grow to where it is barely break even for new hardware (including electrical cost) from there it is only going to grow if/when either the exchange rate rises or more efficient devices are produced.
If Avalon charged $1,000 for a 6GH/s unit, you wouldn't see 1,000 of them going out in one hit would you. You seem to be missing the point. In order to keep the BTC network balanced and growing at a sustainable rate, you don't release hardware that is orders of magnitude higher hash rate than what's currently available. There is nothing stopping BFL or Avalon building a 10TH/s unit right now that requires massive 3 phase power, but there is no need. |
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His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.
From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit. They wouldn't have needed to buy 10 smaller Avalon could have just released TH/s at a slower daily rate and charged way more for it, so ther would have been less TH/ s competition for the miners. Everyone wins. |
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What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks. They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.
I wish I could down grade my order again. Id be much better off.
If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s. Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl. |
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I can confirm seeing at least 150MH or so on epools when diff is low. There are definitely other large entities mining ARG, stopping multipoool really won't do much except in the low beats you'll get your coins twice as fast which will still be very unprofitable. It's not enough of a difference to sway anyone's decision.
Not sure why ARG has been the "example" coin out of all of this. I would re-iterate, if anything the fact that ARG can withstand such large diff swings is a real testament to the design of the coin!
Flound is just doing his pool justice, that is his JOB, he's not trying to destroy any coin in the process. If anything, slowing the rate of mining as he's done is making the current share of ARG worth more. Nobody is using ARG in time sensitive transactions so there's no real harm, and from what we've seen so far the block chain will never stall like CNC.
I would suggest though, Flound, maybe you would open up ARG and charge a mandatory fee instead of trying to get a bounty. Most of the premine has been accounted for and i think any remainder would just stand to top up the digibank of baritus.
Nonsense, I am often the only one mining epools and it's below 1MH/s on high diff, the highest I have seen it was 78MH/s on low diff, and that occurred many minutes after muiltipool has already hopped to ARG. Individual miners hopping from Coinchoose are seldom as fast as a whole pool hopping. I don't know if I most ARG miners would call loosing 4,000 blocks per day "withstanding a large diff swing", I certainly don't. and that's why many ARG miners are angry. arg.epools.org hasn't found a block in over 12hours, and probably wont before the next diff swing, so the two miners on there will have wasted about 12hours or more of electricity yet we represent about 6% of the global net hash so without us the diff would stay high for hours longer. btw http://arg.scryptmining.com has way more than 70% of the ARG net hash currently, a couple of people from there should swing over to one of the other pools to balance it out a bit. |
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I was order number 10810 ordered on October 11, 2012 and just received my Jalapeno today. So they're definitely making progress on at least one front. It's been running for the last few hours in cgminer and averaging around 5.2Gh/s. Hopefully they'll start getting some of those bigger device orders out the door for folks soon.
Well it's good to see they are catching up on at least one of the devices, though they have shipped over a hundred Singles, and many MiniRigs, they are still only working on orders from June 23rd 2012, as there were so many orders on the first few days. |
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IIRC, didn't KNC say we can get refunds up until the time of delivery? like October for me.
is there a link to that policy?
I e-mailed about this 2 days ago and Carl from KNCMiner responded: "You can request a refund at any time prior to shipment date." I phoned KNC today as I have done a few times with them picking up pretty quickly. I got a verbal confirmation again today saying they are offering refunds up to the shipping of the miner. KNC also confirmed no delays on anything they know of. You say you have done this a few times, why are you pestering them? Just let them get on with it, you are not the only one waiting. |
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Doesn't seem to respond, just times out for me. Any others? |
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As a comunity what about help to ARG, to get out from that high diff? It would not take much time, if we manage to get ~30MH/s there for hour or two...
No, i have got only ~12 ARG
I have only got 100 ARG but I am there mining, what I do is use the --load-balance flag in cgminer so I am mining two pools at once, currently DGC and ARG. |
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Well, the best way to calculate it is just to see how many blocks were mined by multipool:
From block 56250 to block 56500 (those are 250 lower difficulty blocks), there were 160 blocks mined by multipool, which means multipool had 160/250*100 = 64% of the network
It would be really easy to test, take ARG out of the multipool.in rotation for a day or so until ARG is low diff, and see what the rest of the Coinchoose pool hoppers get the net hash up to, and see what the diff rate ends up at. Last two times it's ended up around 1.27 |
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I am not sure that people voting understand the problem. Here is a copy of a post I made in the ARG thread the other day that perhaps sheds a bit of light on it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231524.msg2738376#msg2738376So it's been almost 38hours since multipool.in forced ARG into high diff. In that time just 230 blocks have been mined, where it should have been around 4,275 blocks. So that's over 4,000 blocks that everyone, including the users of multipool.in didn't get a share of. The greedy rush for a quick 250 blocks wastes 4,000 blocks. It's relatively simple arithmetic to work out how many minutes in an hour a pool with around 400MH/s could mine a coin ARG for maximum sustainable profitability, instead of rushing like a bull at a gate and ruining it for all.
The end result of course, is that multipool.in users are forced to mine high diff, energy expensive, coins with a high hash rate like LTC, FTC or even DGC for hours on end, where the can't achieve the majority of the hash rate, instead of the far more profitable low diff alt coins. |
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Yawn, another pre-paid, not shipping, unproven, ASIC anouncement.
Do we really need this?
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Sadly it's only getting worse. We are beyond a 24 hour retarget at this point. Even 24 hours is bad, because in reality all that means is that only 480 blocks are mined for each retarget period (~2 days right now). That's quite a bit shy of the target 1440 blocks that are supposed to be created each day.
Yes, some action is required here. I am researching the best retarget times now. So not to introduce other undesired side effects. I am thinking now of 5 - 10 min retarget intervals. So we will do a hard fork in the near future to break this feedback cycle. Titan See if you can re-target based on time rather than block count, it should be pretty easy to do as each block has a timestamp so an "if greater than timestamp = x then adjust". Most devs take the easy way out and just change the block count parameter because it's easier to calculate when the last change occured, but just look at all the coins that have been high diff locked by the flash mining crowd to see that's pretty hopeless. I think an elapsed time diff adjustment, like 10min, 30min, 1hr or more should be good, just depends on how long you are prepared to leave the block rate out of range. If you adjust frequently, say every 10min, then you could set a limit like no more than +/- 10% change every 10min. So the ups and downs are a bit more graceful. If you went time based adjustments ask people to nominate the interval and the percentage to see whats prefered. You could even run a poll with some choices to see what miners want. eg. Interval Max diff adjustment 10min 10% 30min 50% 60min unlimited ... |
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hashrate calcs are not entirely accurate, and impossible to properly calculate when there's such a drastic increase followed by sudden decrease.
Stop avoiding the issue. You're not making any more money by mining this way, especially mining LTC for hours without paying out, you're not doing anybody any favors.
If you are a pool owner, you do your own hashrate calc based on the block numbers and timestamps, it's not very hard arithmetic, yet I see pool after pool screwing it up. Some people do stoopid things like take an average since the last diff change, or over the last 100 blocks, rather than say over the last 10min. which would be more relevant. |
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Most of this thread is FUD to try and gain a competitive advantage for other ASIC miners.
Realistically, the only laws I have seen BFL possibly break so far, that they could actually get in trouble for, is the refusal to refund, as Kansas, where BFL are located, has some reasonably strict consumer laws about that kind of thing. But you would have to file a complaint in Kansas, not Germany!
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Hey Adam, get over yourself.
You're destroying a perfectly good coin for no reason. If you leave your pool on ARG, the diff will steadily rise to meet the new hashrate. Your pool will continue to find a ton of blocks, and bring in a ton of money for your miners on a coin that is profitable AND severely undervalued, even after doubling in price this past week. Instead, you come on, mine a smaller amount - one which means your small miners probably aren't even getting enough ARG to reach a minimum withdrawal - and then leave those of us who CARE about the coin in the dust where it then takes over 24 hours to get back to our correct diff because NO COIN IS OR SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO HANDLE 4000% HASHRATE SPIKES.
You can even see on your own pool's thread plenty of people complaining because you hop onto LTC for a while, then hop off, and never get credit for your work on LTC.
Do you not see how pool hopping DOES NOT work out better for you, your miners, OR the crypto currency community as a whole? Is this the type of practice you teach your kids? Screw everyone else, I'm having fun with an experiment?
You are essentially a single person in charge of a 400Mh/s botnet, and somehow you think this is okay?
I too have noticed that small miners take weeks to meet the minimum withdrawal for coins like LTC or NVC, and you can't direct mine ARG,LKY, PXC so you have to wait days for them to come out of high diff again before you can mine to meet minimum withdrawl. |
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