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Author Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)  (Read 790183 times)
stonehedge
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March 08, 2016, 05:20:38 PM
 #3421

Being a sensitive soul I took a bit of offence to indirectly being referred to as a FUDer a few posts back.

For this reason I thought I'd jot down my position on the Spreadcoin project in a more detailed way so that I at least can have my say in a single post that can be referred to.

These are purely my own opinions so please treat them as such.  I still have a large stake in Spreadcoin. I post this hoping to open a debate that so far hasn't been forthcoming.

The vision I bought into.

An innovative, blockchain based, decentralised service provision experiment.  The plan was to create an overlay network consisting of service nodes. It was discussed and agreed that the best way to achieve a large service network would be to create paying nodes that perform either no service or a very minor one so that the network could grow while work on the first services could happen. I thought that the idea was to create an API so that once the service network existed, anybody could develop their own services.

Separately, I believed that PoBN was going to be the centre-piece cryptographic challenge that a core group of the Spreadcoin team would work on once the service network was growing in mainnet while other groups worked on other services.

The vision 12 months later.

Georgem  decided that service nodes cannot exist without providing a service.  Georgem decided that the first service is going to be a block explorer.  Neither of these decisions were made in consultation with either the dev team or the community.  Indeed, this change of direction was made 9 months after taking over the project which wasted a large amount of the dev team's work.

My primary concerns.

In the last 12 months the only release from this project has been the pretty wallet with vanitygen.  Progress is too slow.  Statements about the project surviving problems in the past miss the point.  Good momentum is needed if support, financial and otherwise, is to grow.

Georgem refuses to work alongside other developers or to discuss progress or problems either publicly with the community or privately with the core dev team.  The continual failure to engage with anybody has lead to significant frustration among a number of people.  Not just me.

Several people on the core dev team have invested large amounts of time and money into public relations and business development in conjunction with georgem's timscales but each time new investment is attracted, the glacial pace of progress with the project and missed deadlines dowses any new interest. 

What I ask Georgem to consider.

Evaluate your skills.  If you don't have the right skills, bring people on board who do.  You have said before that you can't learn working with somebody else.  If this is true, are you really lead dev material?  You need to lead this project, not just code.  I believe you are failing at the moment.

Pause for a moment and consider the number of  experienced and successful experts in their fields who have been alienated from the team.  I'd like to hear your views on why you think this has happened.

Consider code reuse.  See my comment about learning from others.  Reusing code doesn't mean you are taking a shortcut or that you are copy and paste dev.  Code reuse when done properly is best practice. 

Reconsider your “no blank servicenodes” approach.  By developing the overlay network and block explorer at the same time I believe you are setting yourself up for a fall.  Do things in a modular way.  Not only is it a more versatile approach, it is easier to debug and usually more scalable.

Ask the community what the first service should be.  Discuss.  Engage.  Agree.  Stop treating Spreadcoin as your personal project.

Talk to people!  Stop disappearing for weeks on end, start telling people what is happening and start sticking to your promises.

Learn to love investors.  You can't talk about needing to pay your bills and then belittle investors in the same breath. The project needs investors and it needs you (and everybody else) to cater to their needs.


What do I think will happen next?

It's all down to Georgem actually proving that he either has the dev skills to deliver or the wider IT skills to manage the project and backfill skills gaps.  If neither of these things happen, then SPR is dead in the water.  I don't believe that the altcoin scene is going to be a growth area for long enough for Georgem to build a service network from first principles. 

Dozens of amazing opportunities have been missed.  I believe that Spreadcoin would have been a top ten coin without any compromise on decentralisation or code quality if various bits of advice had been followed.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing but significant and radical change is needed if this project is to succeed. 

Time to step up and become a leader Georgem.
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coins101
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March 08, 2016, 08:39:17 PM
 #3422

Please vote

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1392053.msg14138999#msg14138999
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March 08, 2016, 08:48:30 PM
 #3423

in other news, someone snatched mr.spread's original yet dead spreadcoin domain away:

http://www.spreadcoin.net/

there is currently something weird and japanese going on there.

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March 08, 2016, 08:52:53 PM
 #3424

in other news, someone snatched mr.spread's original yet dead spreadcoin domain away:

http://www.spreadcoin.net/

there is currently something weird and japanese going on there.

Satoshi. It's Satoshi, I'm telling you.
minerpage
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March 08, 2016, 08:58:36 PM
 #3425

in other news, someone snatched mr.spread's original yet dead spreadcoin domain away:

http://www.spreadcoin.net/

there is currently something weird and japanese going on there.

Satoshi. It's Satoshi, I'm telling you.

Translated first paragraph:

When do effective for If you take enzyme drink? Enzyme drink

When do effective for If you take enzyme drink?
Enzyme drinks, effect I get the most on an empty stomach.
Because fasting is that the absorption rate is increased, the enzyme will be efficiently ingested.
If the drink once enzyme drink a day, you should drink immediately from the morning.
coins101
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March 08, 2016, 09:00:27 PM
 #3426

in other news, someone snatched mr.spread's original yet dead spreadcoin domain away:

http://www.spreadcoin.net/

there is currently something weird and japanese going on there.

Satoshi. It's Satoshi, I'm telling you.

Translated first paragraph:

When do effective for If you take enzyme drink? Enzyme drink

When do effective for If you take enzyme drink?
Enzyme drinks, effect I get the most on an empty stomach.
Because fasting is that the absorption rate is increased, the enzyme will be efficiently ingested.
If the drink once enzyme drink a day, you should drink immediately from the morning.

I read the Bitcoin whitepaper.  I'm sure that's what it was talking about.
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March 08, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
 #3427


More explanations /docs would be nice so that people can give a more educated vote.

What are the benefits of a "partnership with azure"?

So if I understand this correctly the idea of a "partnership with azure" is that once one of their customers rents an ubuntu virtual machine,
there will be a spreadcoin node preinstalled on it, ready to use if needed. Is this correct?

For this to happen, azure requires that a coin actually adds value/services etc to be considered.

You know, like a decentralized blockexplorer for example.

@coins101 what services/apps do you have in mind?

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March 08, 2016, 09:07:03 PM
 #3428


More explanations /docs would be nice so that people can give a more educated vote.

What are the benefits of a "partnership with azure"?

So if I understand this correctly the idea of a "partnership with azure" is that once one of their customers rents an ubuntu virtual machine,
there will be a spreadcoin node preinstalled on it, ready to use if needed. Is this correct?

For this to happen, azure requires that a coin actually adds value/services etc to be considered.

You know, like a decentralized blockexplorer for example.

@coins101 what services/apps do you have in mind?

http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-blockchain-azure-marley-gray/

What services? Decentralized block explorer, in particular full bitcoin nodes. As far as I can tell, nothing specific from the stated goals of the project need to change.

Servicenodes can only run what they are able to run.
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March 08, 2016, 09:12:14 PM
 #3429

...
So if I understand this correctly the idea of a "partnership with azure" is that once one of their customers rents an ubuntu virtual machine,
there will be a spreadcoin node preinstalled on it, ready to use if needed. Is this correct?
..

They are looking to get people onto their cloud environment. Blockchains is one sub-set of many other sectors. They don't really care about what app you run, provided the package builds are competently built and the project is not a scam.

Ultimately, they want people to be attracted to good apps running on their cloud.  They are taking the app store approach, but with fully fledged software services. End user demand is key. They do vetting, but its about the users, mostly.
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March 08, 2016, 09:17:35 PM
 #3430

...

For this to happen, azure requires that a coin actually adds value/services etc to be considered.
..

He read our whitepaper. That's why he said he wants us on Azure.
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March 08, 2016, 09:19:39 PM
 #3431

The lead dev, Georgem, wants to know what the community thinks and he want to listen to the pros and cons. He is open to the idea of working towards joining the Azure program if the overall feedback warrants a closer look and it doesn't end up compromising the project or the principle of decentralization.

I personally support this simply because I can make IMMEDIATE use of this inclusion to build applications on top of the SPR block chain and integrate this with other Azure components (database, websites, etc.). Many companies (that I know) already have Azure services and it instills a lot of confidence having SPR be part of that service offering. I don't believe this takes away from the decentralization principle simply because there are no modifications needed on the SPR side of things. Provide an API and everybody is happy!


Killer post in favor (see, I even used the US spelling). I'm considering closing the vote early because of this post.
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March 08, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
 #3432


100% behind making the application to join. If later you discover any issues, the devs can just pull out at any time.
georgem (OP)
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March 08, 2016, 09:27:06 PM
 #3433

The lead dev, Georgem, wants to know what the community thinks and he want to listen to the pros and cons. He is open to the idea of working towards joining the Azure program if the overall feedback warrants a closer look and it doesn't end up compromising the project or the principle of decentralization.

I personally support this simply because I can make IMMEDIATE use of this inclusion to build applications on top of the SPR block chain and integrate this with other Azure components (database, websites, etc.). Many companies (that I know) already have Azure services and it instills a lot of confidence having SPR be part of that service offering. I don't believe this takes away from the decentralization principle simply because there are no modifications needed on the SPR side of things. Provide an API and everybody is happy!


Killer post in favor (see, I even used the US spelling). I'm considering closing the vote early because of this post.

My questions are more about the nature of the partnership.

I mean I can run a spreadcoin node on any other virtual server anyway, and can start building applications on top of the blockchain too, without azure...
so why do we need a partnership for that?

How exactly is azure "integrating" our blockchain into their other Azure components?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't microsoft become a middleman between you and the blockchain?
How does this help decentralization and/or privacy?

More info needed.

coins101
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March 08, 2016, 09:34:23 PM
 #3434

...partnership.
..

The word partnership is probably misleading.

Think of them as a cloud hosting provider, using an app store approach which is to vet the software going on their cloud.

https://blog.bitpay.com/bitcore-for-microsoft-azure/

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March 08, 2016, 09:35:11 PM
 #3435


so why do we need a partnership for that?


Perception, PR value and integration. I (for one) am in the trenches. Every day I try to convince companies to use the block chain for application building. I had (still have) a hard time convincing people to do this, even with (because of) all the negative connotations (abuse, crime, etc.). Once MS started supporting this, my job became a whole lot easier. There was immediate perceived value. But that probably only works if the potential customer has/runs MS products. This would not make much sense to an outsider (i.e. a customer who doesn't use MS products).

EDIT: Partnership is probably not the correct term. More like cross promotion, you are listed as a "Value Added Solutions Provider" (or something like it)
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March 08, 2016, 09:36:22 PM
 #3436


100% behind making the application to join. If later you discover any issues, the devs can just pull out at any time.

That's what I don't understand. The devs can decide to pull out?

Why not you or any other node operator?

From a decentralization standpoint this sounds like a nightmare.

Don't wanna be debby downer here, but... once we start affecting the whole spreadcoin network by pushing it onto Azure,
we can then later simply decide to revert this action, should there be problems?

Why do devs get to decide that, where is the power of "one node" = "one vote" ?

See, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with you deciding that you want to run your node on an Azure server.
I also have no problem whatsoever if you "partner" with Azure so that you can to run a whole armada of spreadcoin nodes and get a special rate or something.

I just don't understand this sort of "partnership" a coin has to officialy enter to be accepted.

More info needed to make an educated decision.

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March 08, 2016, 09:39:59 PM
 #3437

....

I just don't understand this sort of "partnership" a coin has to officialy enter to be accepted.
..

For them, its about limiting reputation risks. 

Like I said, IOS screen who goes on the app store for the same reason, but that is mostly about preventing scammers and viruses, etc.

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March 08, 2016, 09:45:24 PM
 #3438


so why do we need a partnership for that?


Perception, PR value and integration. I (for one) am in the trenches. Every day I try to convince companies to use the block chain for application building. I had (still have) a hard time convincing people to do this, even with (because of) all the negative connotations (abuse, crime, etc.). Once MS started supporting this, my job became a whole lot easier. There was immediate perceived value. But that probably only works if the potential customer has/runs MS products. This would not make much sense to an outsider (i.e. a customer who doesn't use MS products).

EDIT: Partnership is probably not the correct term. More like cross promotion, you are listed as a "Value Added Solutions Provider" (or something like it)

Good point.

But there you have it, I see all the benefits that microsoft gets from this deal.
I just don't see the benefits our community is going to have, especially if true decentralization is our main goal.

Again, don't want to crush anyone's dreams/hopes here, but the only real immediate effect I see from this is an expected SPR price rise,
simply because many people feel very fuzzy and warm when they hear the words microsoft/spreadcoin/partnership mentioned in the same sentence.

But I like that we finally explore this with the necessary depth.
It was sitting on our table for quite some time now.

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March 08, 2016, 09:50:54 PM
 #3439

....

I just don't understand this sort of "partnership" a coin has to officialy enter to be accepted.
..

For them, its about limiting reputation risks. 

Like I said, IOS screen who goes on the app store for the same reason, but that is mostly about preventing scammers and viruses, etc.



I see.

So it's like a giant sandbox so to speak?

Not sure I like the sound of that...

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March 08, 2016, 09:58:51 PM
 #3440

I just don't see the benefits our community is going to have
Depends on point of view.

Those who see SPR as speculation tools: no benefit indeed.

Those who try to use crypto in the business world: plenty of benefits:
  • Increased Profile (standing) in the business world
  • Ready made solutions for applications
  • Increased adoption rates (first to market)
  • Build Track Record (implementations)
  • Real world solutions provider (we can list accomplishments)
  • Services and Consultations (who wants to try next)
  • Build continuous value (steady market value increase)
  • Worldwide wallet distribution (adoption by business users)
  • etc...

I just wrote this as I went. Given some extra time there will be a ton of other reasons why it would benefit the community. Again, depending on expectations and viewpoints. No crypto can survive long term without a sound economic plan. Speculation on exchanges only doesn't cut it. Real value comes from sustained business use, which in turn comes from adoption. The more the merrier  Cool
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