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generalizethis
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Activity: 1750
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Facts are more efficient than fud
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June 24, 2015, 02:30:09 AM |
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Hard money is a delusion.
What you really want is soft money that is decentralized and thus remains permission-less (censorship-free).
I'd argue what you are talking about here is a need for cash, or least the symbol of cash. And decentralization alone isn't enough to create an ecash. It has to be fungible, untraceable and unlinkable. Bitcoin's only fungible as long as you can guarantee your wallet won't become blacklisted, and as the tracking tech gets more and more sophisticated, this becomes more and more of a crap-shoot. If I'm a "cash only" mom and pop restaurant who relied on a loan from an underworld organization to secure my business and need to pay restitution to secure my business and myself, am I going to risk using a currency that can be used to reveal all my tax revenue (credit) or (cash) one that lets me keep a profit over what I pay to my Bosses--the Mafia, the Yakuza, my kid's College Loan Syndicate? You have to remember that most small business owners aren't technologically sophisticated and cash fills a very pertinent need in their lives. They aren't going to get a degree in sidechains or mixers or tumblers in order to perform their daily business--especially when those things still have a risk of tainting their accounts when the best of practices are followed. The $ symbol exist and a lot of people want a digital equivalent, and BTC won't fill that demand until it is in the core. Right now BTC symbolizes Behind Bars or worse.... |
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TPTB_need_war
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June 24, 2015, 02:46:11 AM |
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Hard money is a delusion.
What you really want is soft money that is decentralized and thus remains permission-less (censorship-free).
I'd argue what you are talking about here is a need for cash, or least the symbol of cash. And decentralization alone isn't enough to create an ecash. It has to be fungible, untraceable and unlinkable. Bitcoin's only fungible as long as you can guarantee your wallet won't become blacklisted, and as the tracking tech gets more and more sophisticated, this becomes more and more of a crap-shoot. If I'm a "cash only" mom and pop restaurant who relied on a loan from an underworld organization to secure my business and need to pay restitution to secure my business and myself, am I going to risk using a currency that can be used to reveal all my tax revenue (credit) or (cash) one that lets me keep a profit over what I pay to my Bosses--the Mafia, the Yakuza, my kid's College Loan Syndicate? You have to remember that most small business owners aren't technologically sophisticated and cash fills a very pertinent need in their lives. They aren't going to get a degree in sidechains or mixers or tumblers in order to perform their daily business--especially when those things still have a risk of tainting their accounts when the best of practices are followed. The $ symbol exist and a lot of people want a digital equivalent, and BTC won't fill that demand until it is in the core. Right now BTC symbolizes Behind Bars or worse.... I am saying that for as long as loaning money and charging it to the sovereign debt-fiat backstop (i.e. the Logic of Collective Action) is the easier way for the masses to get "free money", then all attempts at non-free money will be subsumed by that aforementioned paradigm which inherently concentrates power. For example, the 50% attack on PoW. So that is why if you are going to succeed, then your perpetual debasement must be high enough to compete, then you need a way to give this away (distribute it) to the masses that can't be gamed such that it really is taken by the wealthy. I solved this design problem finally! |
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generalizethis
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Facts are more efficient than fud
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June 24, 2015, 03:06:18 AM |
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Hard money is a delusion.
What you really want is soft money that is decentralized and thus remains permission-less (censorship-free).
I'd argue what you are talking about here is a need for cash, or least the symbol of cash. And decentralization alone isn't enough to create an ecash. It has to be fungible, untraceable and unlinkable. Bitcoin's only fungible as long as you can guarantee your wallet won't become blacklisted, and as the tracking tech gets more and more sophisticated, this becomes more and more of a crap-shoot. If I'm a "cash only" mom and pop restaurant who relied on a loan from an underworld organization to secure my business and need to pay restitution to secure my business and myself, am I going to risk using a currency that can be used to reveal all my tax revenue (credit) or (cash) one that lets me keep a profit over what I pay to my Bosses--the Mafia, the Yakuza, my kid's College Loan Syndicate? You have to remember that most small business owners aren't technologically sophisticated and cash fills a very pertinent need in their lives. They aren't going to get a degree in sidechains or mixers or tumblers in order to perform their daily business--especially when those things still have a risk of tainting their accounts when the best of practices are followed. The $ symbol exist and a lot of people want a digital equivalent, and BTC won't fill that demand until it is in the core. Right now BTC symbolizes Behind Bars or worse.... I am saying that for as long as loaning money and charging it to the sovereign debt-fiat backstop (i.e. the Logic of Collective Action) is the easier way for the masses to get "free money", then all attempts at non-free money will be subsumed by that aforementioned paradigm which inherently concentrates power. For example, the 50% attack on PoW. So that is why if you are going to succeed, then your perpetual debasement must be high enough to compete, then you need a way to give this away (distribute it) to the masses that can't be gamed such that it really is taken by the wealthy. I solved this design problem finally! I'm saying it won't work without being cash, because tptb have always relied on keeping crime in check by having a cordial relationship with the underworld and the underworld needs cash to function. It's a subtle dance that has been played out since the Romans (at least since then), and has kept societies functional. I'm saying you can't have a cash that only works for the good guys and doesn't work for the bad guys. BTC isn't cash and even the banks can give the "bad guys" a better version of almost cash--do you think those guys don't get prosecuted because they aren't doing what the government wants? Please--  Even if they run the government, it is still what the government wants. |
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generalizethis
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June 24, 2015, 04:58:38 AM |
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I'm saying it won't work without...
What won't work? Any coin that doesn't perform the three functions (fungible, untraceable, unlinkable) won't work as a cash no matter how you distribute or cap it. |
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TPTB_need_war
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June 24, 2015, 05:10:56 AM |
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I'm saying it won't work without...
What won't work? Any coin that doesn't perform the three functions (fungible, untraceable, unlinkable) won't work as a cash no matter how you distribute or cap it. Yes, but I am saying that any coin that doesn't distribute itself as "free money" to the masses, won't remain viable (for several reasons, please review what I wrote at the other thread carefully) and thus those three qualities won't be sustained if the distribution is not correctly done. |
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generalizethis
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June 24, 2015, 05:24:02 AM |
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I'm saying it won't work without...
What won't work? Any coin that doesn't perform the three functions (fungible, untraceable, unlinkable) won't work as a cash no matter how you distribute or cap it. Yes, but I am saying that any coin that doesn't distribute itself as "free money" to the masses, won't remain viable (for several reasons, please review what I wrote at the other thread carefully) and thus those three qualities won't be sustained if the distribution is not correctly done. Not going thread hopping. My point is that I think what you wrote is a sideshow to the important properties and "free" money isn't as important as motivated money. The state forced citizens to use money. A new money must perform the same valuable service that cash does and let their primal selves motivate them to use it or it won't last. Dark markets created Bitcoin, and once people started realizing it wasn't cash, the demand faltered. And now everyone hopes that it can be made useful by sidechains or as a investment vehicle. Who cares if a currency is free if I can't effectively pay a camgirl without my wife's divorce attorney finding out? Do you really think people are that much dumber than you and can be tricked into accepting a currency that isn't useful as cash as cash? Necessity is what will make or break a currency and I don't need a free coin; I need a useful one. |
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TPTB_need_war
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June 24, 2015, 05:26:58 AM
Last edit: June 24, 2015, 05:42:37 AM by TPTB_need_war |
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Not going thread hopping.
Don't expect me to repeat everything again. You can go read and become smarter if you want. Your investment decisions will be affected by this knowledge. Monero can be 50% attacked by the DEEP STATE for example, because it isn't as popular as Bitcoin. (But no need to do that if it isn't anonymous and or will die economically anyway, which in my rough observation looks like a possibility not a certainty) Monero can't likely become popular because it isn't distributed to the masses. Rpietila is working on that game. |
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generalizethis
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June 24, 2015, 05:32:26 AM |
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Not going thread hopping.
Then you will remain ignorant. Don't expect me to repeat everything again. You can go read and become smarter if you want. Your investment decisions will be affected by this knowledge. Don't expect people to read every post you write on multiple threads--you aren't that interesting. Either get the argument in one place or create links to the entire discussion. If you can't be bothered to do this, I can't be bothered to do it for you. |
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generalizethis
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June 24, 2015, 05:37:01 AM |
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Not going thread hopping.
Don't expect me to repeat everything again. You can go read and become smarter if you want. Your investment decisions will be affected by this knowledge. Monero can be 50% attacked for example, because it isn't as popular as Bitcoin. Monero can't become popular because it isn't distributed to the masses. Networks can grow. And you don't think when the GUI drops this thing isn't going to grow? It's .50 cents a coin and can be mined on gpu, it has a much, much, much better chance of being more widely distributed than Bitcoin does. Unless Bitcoin can be fungible, untracable, and unlinkable at the core, it will never be cash. It can't be put any simpler than that--now go make some convoluted argument otherwise. |
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TPTB_need_war
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June 24, 2015, 05:46:35 AM |
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Networks can grow. And you don't think when the GUI drops this thing isn't going to grow?
It's .50 cents a coin and can be mined on gpu, it has a much, much, much better chance of being more widely distributed than Bitcoin does.
It may have upside within the crypto community still. But beyond that, IMO I don't see it yet (unless something changes that I am not aware of), but everyone is entitled to their own appraisal. There is also a real risk that Monero will be replaced by Blockstream's Confidential Transactions. Competition is good, as it encourages better outcomes. The Monero whales own more BTC than XMR. They've said that if their effort causes anonymity to be built into BTC, then their goal was accomplished. |
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generalizethis
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June 24, 2015, 05:57:51 AM
Last edit: June 24, 2015, 07:38:45 AM by generalizethis |
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Networks can grow. And you don't think when the GUI drops this thing isn't going to grow?
It's .50 cents a coin and can be mined on gpu, it has a much, much, much better chance of being more widely distributed than Bitcoin does.
It may have upside within the crypto community still. But beyond that, IMO I don't see it yet (unless something changes that I am not aware of), but everyone is entitled to their own appraisal. There is also a real risk that Monero will be replaced by Blockstream's Confidential Transactions. Confidential transactions are fine (despite the added steps) as long as they are left in the sc, it is the gateways that cause the problem. Monero must grow in liquidity and network, but the core is there. Ct's are not a core application. To put it simply, "Why would I want to use a gold into cash system when there is a perfectly good cash for cash system in place? The "one-coin-to-rule-them-all" argument would stand if Bitcoin wasn't so damn inept at being cash. I guess you gave up on making your own coin and are one of Bitcoin's lackeys now. Maybe they'll give you a nice sidechain for your efforts. The Monero whales own more BTC than XMR. They've said that if their effort causes anonymity to be built into BTC, then their goal was accomplished.
That's not true if 1 xmr = 1 xmr and 1 untainted btc = 1 untainted btc. We're trying to replace the dollar, remember? |
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TPTB_need_war
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June 24, 2015, 06:06:40 AM |
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My goals are much wider in scope and I don't want to get bogged down in politics over which coin will win.
I am just stating that competition will bring out the best.
And I am saying that the anonymous coin and chain that has a wide distribution paradigm is not only more likely to win, but also more likely to be resilient (but I don't mean giving coins away that users dump for fiat).
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TPTB_need_war
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June 25, 2015, 08:17:07 PM |
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And those who argued that USG and its derivative tentacles OECD have no power to enforce in far flung jurisdictions...and notice it happens precisely on the day that Armstrong had been predicting (since 1985) for the Sovereign Debt Big Bang (2015.75 = October 1, 2015)... http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33889Cayman Islands to Begin Reporting Everyone on October 1, 2015 The Cayman Islands’ Department of International Tax Compliance (DITC) has notified Cayman financial institutions of its intention to move forward with implementing the OECD’s Common Reporting Standard (CRS), with the introduction of local regulations by the Economic Confidence Model turning point – October 1, 2015. This of course will end banking in the Cayman Islands and will impact many hedge funds as well. Like Switzerland, the Cayman Islands has surrendered its sovereignty to the tyranny of global taxation. The West is imploding all for taxation because those in power will NEVER reform; all they will ever do is raise taxes to line their own pockets while destroying the world economy. The Cayman Islands is among 50 “early adopters” of the CRS that will begin the automatic exchange of tax information starting in 2017. Eleven other countries will start tax information exchange in 2018. Under the CRS, as of September 2017, tax authorities in over 50 jurisdictions — in addition to the U.S. and U.K. — will be entitled to information on accounts that individuals or entities hold in a Reportable Jurisdiction, under the tax laws of that jurisdiction. A Reportable Jurisdiction is one that has a multilateral or bilateral Competent Authority Agreement with other jurisdictions to provide information under the CRS and is on the OECD’s list of such jurisdictions. |
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OROBTC (OP)
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June 25, 2015, 09:14:58 PM |
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...
Just saw that myself earlier today, TPTB. Yet MOAR Economic Totalitarianism...
Each new week confirms what Armstrong and you have been saying. There will be no place to hide, at least conventional places. No (or few, and any such would have other issues/problems) other places will offer protection from the Hungry Collective...
* * *
Kind-of related is today's SCOTUS decision re Obamacare. Last year BC-BS raised our medical insurance rates 16%. I am expecting 25% next time, and it will be against the law to not have insurance.
It was a tax before it was a tax. Or is it the other way around? Either way, it means more of the US Middle Class will be getting screwed again.
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trollercoaster
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June 26, 2015, 02:11:35 AM |
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public "servants" (who like to think of themselves as royalty) have been on strike this week demanding higher pay and benefits.
I have noticed an increase of aggression among my friends, who I like to call champagne socialists, I think they can sense their little reality bubble is about to pop.
Armstrongs site also appears to be under attack.
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OROBTC (OP)
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June 26, 2015, 02:55:10 AM |
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... trollercoaster Mmm, yes, "public servants" are notorious worldwide for being lazy, going on strike, long vacations, easy work. "Champagne Socialists", very good.  But, any of them with any power will bitterly cling to it, and tax us / boss us around (Armstrong). 47% of Americans will vote for Hillary, no matter what scandal, etc. 47% is her starting point. Think about that. She will not be a friend of Bitcoin... |
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trollercoaster
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June 26, 2015, 03:47:41 AM |
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I don't like to think too much about Hillary, she actually makes me physically ill, she's the perfect candidate to drive the final nail into the wests coffin, no one is more fit for the job.
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TPTB_need_war
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June 26, 2015, 03:54:37 AM |
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I don't like to think too much about Hillary, she actually makes me physically ill
Did you read Armstrong's blog post last year about she threw an astray at a white house security guard when he walked in on her naked in the same bed with another woman. Google can probably help you find that. Hillary is a Hitler for sure. See her "little village" comments. |
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