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Author Topic: Economic Totalitarianism  (Read 345644 times)
altcoinUK
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September 29, 2015, 02:32:02 AM
 #1361

You are lying to yourself. You are eating fish because you were not getting the correct nutrition and your body told you so.


That's could be the case and since I am not sure what my body unconsciously is telling me I can't argue with that.
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altcoinUK
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September 29, 2015, 02:34:12 AM
 #1362

Aha! Perhaps our paleo ancestors (and the native tribes who today have 50% more species of gut microflora than we do), got it from eating raw vegetables!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9117178

So maybe I don't need the Kefir, maybe I just need to eat my wild species (not farmed) leafy greens raw (which I am doing as I write this).

Stick to that and based on my personal experience I have no doubt that you will be fine :-)))
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September 29, 2015, 02:48:38 AM
 #1363

I am not sure from where that person in that link got that 30 bananas nonsense. Nobody in the right mind would eat 30 bananas - no need to and that is impractical.

There are very well balanced vegan diets that could include tofu, pasta, rice, even bread and of course the all kind of nice (many hundreds of) vegetables and nuts that provide with all nutritions (except vitamin B12) and adequate source of protein. Even with plant diet it is very straightforward to achieve a well balanced intake of nutritions and protein. Anyway, it is well documented, there are hundreds of researches and books to explain how to get proper nutrition from vegan and plant diets, and statements and hypotheses like "an omnivorous diet is the best diet for us to thrive" from that link doesn't change the facts about nutrition content of vegetables IMHO.

  
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September 29, 2015, 03:06:18 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 03:17:21 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1364

altcoinUK please re-read my first post on this page as I edited it.

Well I think you, Terry Wahls, and others are noticing that raw veggies are effective for M.S. and in your case heart disease. So I have to conclude there is evidence to support it as a superfood. Terry Wahls has found no statistical advantage for the ketogenesis version of her diet offerings. I can't find any claim of ketogenesis curing M.S., whereas I do find claims of it curing cancer.

So I think raw vegan is sane step to try, but I continue to caution that solely raw vegan is malnutrition, so keep it in balance. Our native ancestors ate meat (raw or barbecued), raw veggies, and cooked (and sometimes mashed and fermented) root starches.

Soy (tofu) is a digestive poison to the extreme! Traditionally fermented soy sauce or miso soup maybe an exception because fermentation often removes the anti-nutrients.

The nutrients in nuts and legumes can't be digested well due to the anti-nutrients put in these by mother nature to protect them from being eaten. Humans don't have the correct enzymes to digest these. We are not squirrels. You likely got big benefits for the raw vegan aspect of your diet, but if you are eating too many nuts and legumes, you run the risk of digestive issues. In moderation they are probably okay.

With careful preparation we can get many of the nutrients we need, e.g. Mung beans soaked, sprouted, and perhaps even fermented in whey, then cooked and the soap films skimmed off the top. They are delicious and high in protein and nearly complete from an amino acid perspective.

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September 29, 2015, 03:07:31 AM
 #1365

altcoinUK please re-read my first post on this page as I edited it.

Well I think you, Terry Wahls, and others are noticing that raw veggies are effective for M.S. and in your case heart disease. So I have to conclude there is evidence to support it as a superfood. Terry Wahls has found no statistical advantage for the ketogenesis version of her diet offerings. I can't find any claim of ketogenesis curing M.S., whereas I do find claims of it curing cancer.

So I think raw vegan is sane step to try, but I continue to caution that pure raw vegan is malnutrition, so keep it in balance. Our native ancestors ate meat (raw or barbecued), raw veggies, and cooked (and sometimes mashed and fermented) root starches.

Soy (tofu) is a digestive poison to the extreme!

The nutrients in nuts and legumes can't be digested well due to the anti-nutrients put in these to protect them from being eaten. Humans don't have the correct enzymes to digest these. We are not squirrels.



I have to agree that raw vegan is a very radical and in most of cases is a quite unnecessary step. For heart diseases - because the fat deposit in the blood vessels and the issues with endothelial cells - it is very much a must to reverse the condition and get healthy (and then it can be continued with a less strict diet), but yes, you are quite right that in your case there is no need such an extreme raw diet.

You are quite right about the tofu, we need to be careful with that, but I think it is a well documented fact.

Terms of nuts, I found no issues with that, I shouldn't eat it but I love it and I get a lots proteins and good fat from nuts, and I understand that is not good for everyone.

Agree on beans, that is very much the main part of any vegan/plant based diets.

Good luck with the diet, I hope you will find the right balance and most importantly I hope that will help you!
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September 29, 2015, 03:09:53 AM
 #1366

Some nuts have much less anti-nutrients. I think hazelnuts if I am not mistaken.

I think I've read the proteins in nuts can't be fully digested due to the anti-nutrients. I love nuts too, but it seemed like eating them was a precursor to my flare-ups.

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September 29, 2015, 03:16:03 AM
 #1367

Some nuts have much less anti-nutrients. I think hazelnuts if I am not mistaken.

I think I've read the proteins in nuts can't be fully digested due to the anti-nutrients. I love nuts too, but it seemed like eating them was making flare-ups come on.

On the note of digesting the nuts, when you are on a vegan/plant diet then that can't be an issue. Since you are taking so much carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, that solves any digestive issues ... most often to the extreme level, which is the most inconvenient part of the vegan/plant based diet.
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September 29, 2015, 03:18:54 AM
 #1368

Some nuts have much less anti-nutrients. I think hazelnuts if I am not mistaken.

I think I've read the proteins in nuts can't be fully digested due to the anti-nutrients. I love nuts too, but it seemed like eating them was making flare-ups come on.

On the note of digesting the nuts, when you are on a vegan/plant diet then that can't be an issue. Since you are taking so much carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, that solves any digestive issues ... most often to the extreme level, which is the most inconvenient part of the vegan/plant based diet.

How did you conclude that? The anti-nutrients bind to certain things and disrupt certain enzymatic processes, etc.

Seems you have a very simplistic model of digestion in mind, something like fiber is good for digestion. But even it isn't that simple. We need soluble fiber, not just insoluble fiber.

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September 29, 2015, 03:42:24 AM
 #1369

Apart from B12 you can get absolutely everything from plant diet.

You realize that the correct interpretation of this statement is that it is provable that you can't get everything from a plant diet, since you have identified one known nutrient you don't get. If you try to fix that, you are eating a bunch of exotic and manufactured crap that probably causes other problems, and even then you are still probably missing a bunch of nutritional value even though you cover up the worst of the obvious problems from B12 deficiency.

If the vegan diet were sound there wouldn't be "apart from" or "except" in statements about it even from supporters.
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September 29, 2015, 03:55:16 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 04:12:40 AM by altcoinUK
 #1370


Seems you have a very simplistic model of digestion in mind.


I have nothing in mind terms of that and the model is lot simpler than you think and it is rather straightforward: whether you eat nuts or not you just poop regularly when you are on a vegan/plant based diet ... and therefore since end of the process the nuts intake is regularly and without any difficulties is manifested in shit, I assume there can't be any digesting issues. Again, even it is very much based on personal experiences, as far as I know millions of vegans experience with the very same phenomenon, i.e. as the result of so much carbohydrate intake there aren't any digestive issues whether you consume nuts or not.

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September 29, 2015, 04:03:03 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 04:16:09 AM by altcoinUK
 #1371

Apart from B12 you can get absolutely everything from plant diet.

You realize that the correct interpretation of this statement is that it is provable that you can't get everything from a plant diet, since you have identified one known nutrient you don't get. If you try to fix that, you are eating a bunch of exotic and manufactured crap that probably causes other problems, and even then you are still probably missing a bunch of nutritional value even though you cover up the worst of the obvious problems from B12 deficiency.

If the vegan diet were sound there wouldn't be "apart from" or "except" in statements about it even from supporters.


OK, I am not an English speaker, so I was really not thinking about the implication of the "apart" word, anyway thanks for pointing out that.

Still, I hope it came cross that I am talking about how vegan/plant based diet helped me and many many thousand other heart patients to reverse a chronic heart condition.

I don't think there is such thing as a categorically "sound diet". What the optimal diet is very much depends on personal health condition. For me, because of my heart condition, the most optimal is the "almost" vegan diet, which means 95% quality vegan/plant based food and once a week seafood, tuna, salmon, trout, etc.

EDIT: "you are eating a bunch of exotic and manufactured crap that probably causes other problems"

No, I don't eat those, and don't need to. You can get vitamin B12 - as I pointed it out - from different, perfectly safe sources. In my opinion, and there are many researches point that out as well, eating the animal products that generally are full of antibiotics and all kind of other shit, put you in more risks than get that vitamin B12 from vegan or supplementary sources.

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September 29, 2015, 04:50:40 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 05:34:31 AM by arielbit
 #1372

@TPTB_need_war

Generally doctors here in the Philippines looks for parts they can operate even if it is unnecessary... more operation and maintenance = more money for them.

aside from coconut fats, raw pili nuts are good source of fats, they even have buttery taste...these nuts are different from other nuts.
http://www.foodworks.co.nz/3-13-1717/news/Could-the-pili-nut-be-the-next-macadamia


@altcoinUK

how about dental health?..i like to see some good information on all vegan diet that makes the teeth healthy.

here are some good information about dental nutrition with animal diet..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price

weston price book ---> this is a very good read, he travels around the world, check the natives teeth and diet.

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects (1939)

and ramiel nagel book cure tooth decay

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September 29, 2015, 04:59:24 AM
 #1373

Still, I hope it came cross that I am talking about how vegan/plant based diet helped me and many many thousand other heart patients to reverse a chronic heart condition.

Oh I guess I didn't recognize the context fully. I have no disagreement with that (noting that I have little to no knowledge of the effectiveness of it either). You're talking about a serious life-threatening medical condition where a particular diet may have specific desired effects, and even if there are subtler or longer term negative effects, that can be well worth it. It's very different from general nutrition for a healthy lifestyle, which is what I though you meant.

Quote
Quote
you are eating a bunch of exotic and manufactured crap that probably causes other problems
No, I don't eat those, and don't need to. You can get vitamin B12 - as I pointed it out - from different, perfectly safe sources.

The things you pointed out are "non-dairy milks, meat substitutes, breakfast cereals, and one type of nutritional yeast". The first three are manufactured products (and probably have B12 mostly because it is added as a manufactured supplement, meaning you are not getting the other associated nutrients which would normally be found with B12 in real food), and the third is exotic which is probably also manufactured in a sense. It's certainly not something you can just hunt, scavenge or forage and eat.
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September 29, 2015, 10:33:41 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 10:50:06 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1374

altcoinUK, I am not by any means criticizing eating raw vegetables as major boost to health. And I concur with smooth that if you are facing the serious diagnosis of advanced heart disease that you did, even a radical all vegan diet for the short-term may be appropriate and I take your word for the miraculous benefits you attained from it.

All I am saying is that long-term, 100% vegan seems to be a religion and not a good balance.

Your conceptualization of digestion appears to be too simplistic and not accurate. I suggest reading numerous pages of the gutcritters.com site as this gave me considerable insight into the complex ways that anti-nutrients interact with digestion. It is simply not true that if you poop regularly that means that digestion is working well. For example, the anti-nutrients can bind to the Zinc and make us deficient. There are many, many more details about it than I have memorized or could articulate. Better to read for yourself.

If you had heart disease then it may mean you have some genetic or other reason for concentrating cholesterol in your arteries. I don't have this problem. I need more and more cholesterol because it is the precursor to production of testosterone which I need for my intense sports activities. I don't have any issues with blood pressure, cholesterol, or heart disease. My heart is probably 1.5x the size of a normal heart because of the extreme endurance sports training I had done. At one point my resting pulse rate was something like 40. I am a bit off my form right now because of this serious dysfunction in my health which is interfering with the level of training I did throughout my life.

Even so, eating raw tuna shouldn't be high in cholesterol, not bad fats. It is reasonably lean meat. And you know it is wild if it is the red meat for the sushi because that only comes from the big tuna which roam the entire Pacific ocean. Do not eat Atlantic tuna! Forget the mercury scare, I recently quoted the stats on this forums and it is like 1 part per million. A non-issue.

Well I think this eating cups of raw wild grown green leafy veggies may be what I needed. It is what Terry Wahls advocates. I did it this morning and again tonight and I felt alert and painfree at 6:30pm. Normally I'd be passed out already in zombie land. I was feeling crap this morning. Forced myself to run 2.25 kms in the hot sun. Took a shower and proceeded to that grocery where I bought a free range (no antibiotics) egg, Yakult, can of tuna, the tiny dried salted fresh raw fish, and a not so ripe banana (just enough to eat, but not sweet). Felt still crap while eating that. Gym workout was descent, my bench press still sucks but I was able to motor strongly through bicep curls, leg presses, tricep dips (I can do 30), and I ran another 1 km, played basketball for an hour, then a few more barbel exercises, then headed home because I was feeling reasonably tired (but not overly so as in CFS). Got home didn't have too much pain in my stomach, but had very sore cranium especially at the back near the base of the skull (and we all know that is where M.S. attacks the brain stem). Then I realized we needed to go back out again to buy raw tuna for dinner and I was thinking I was too tired to go out again. But I got my socks and shoes back on with some effort (that will tell you what fatigue is like, you can't even put on your socks!), but before we left I ate some more raw wild green leafy veggies (these are veggies that aren't farmed here, they just grow wild). While we are out and about, the soreness at my head went away and I gained more and more energy. Also I should mention I drank a glass of Kombucha tea before putting on my shoes.

So today was more upbeat. If I could have more days like this, I'd be very happy.

P.S. I did eat the raw veggies before for a couple of weeks. But at that time I was trying to eat all kinds of veggies including nightshades. I didn't focus on the wild, unfarmed green leafy veggies. Also at that time, I didn't know what to eat to get satiated. I was eating sometimes crackers. Other times nuts. Other times mackerel out of a can. No one was cooking for me. I wasn't eating regularly and not eating all raw, wild, unfarmed, and organic foods. Getting the details right may be the difference between a cure and a failure. Now I understand that eating some properly soaked, sprouted, and well cooked (and soap saponins skimmed) Mung beans with rice is good for my soluble fiber and another source of protein than just always raw tuna. I am hopefully starting to get some insight into the proper balance in my diet. I hope.

P.S.S. My criticism to klee is that even though his symptoms aren't yet acute as mine, thus he can be lackadaisical w.r.t. to getting his diet right. And he make himself much worse with ketones nonsense and other nonsense of wasting time considering wild metabolic theories in research journals. Instead I am advising he follow a common sense approach which is to not do horrendous nutrition such as nuts and coffee for breakfast. Bacon and eggs isn't probably healthy either because the bacon is not likely prepared without any chemicals, and the pig was probably not wild, didn't eat sweet potatos and instead was probably fed grains and antibiotics. Rather than this nonsense, he could focus himself on getting maximum nutrition into his body then maybe he won't end up in an acute phase of M.S. as I have.

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September 29, 2015, 12:02:36 PM
 #1375

Oh and I forgot that I took 20,000 IU of vitamin D3 this morning. First time since the starting the fasting that I took any supplement. So that might explain why I felt better later this evening. The vitamin D3 is known to be very helpful with M.S.., and the serum level of D3 is the lowest when a M.S. patient is having a flare-up.

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September 29, 2015, 01:24:36 PM
 #1376

Almost the entire human race is chronically deficient in Vitamin D3. 
 
I would bet half of all "depression" would disappear if we were forced to get 30 minutes in the sun / 8,000 IU of D3 a day. 
 
I know that personally, when I don't get sunlight and don't supplement heavily with Vitamin D, my brain and mood feel all kinds of wrong - I'll bet many of the "tortured" Victorian era artists just didn't get out in the damn sun enough.  I also can attest that when I *do* get proper sunlight/D3 everything feels right with the world: confidence, happiness, stability...
 
It's almost like we went through millions of years of natural selection that crafted us to thrive in natural conditions.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
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September 29, 2015, 03:15:33 PM
 #1377

Profit means individual appropriation of surplus products and is therefore possible only on the basis of private ownership.
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September 29, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
 #1378

Profit means individual appropriation of surplus products and is therefore possible only on the basis of private ownership.


Profit indeed is only really possible with private ownership.  Profit derives from work on any surplus products/services.

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Re above dietary comments, when I have any doubts about my diet, I just reach for a Tabasco SlimJim...
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September 29, 2015, 10:15:59 PM
 #1379

This recent change in diet has given my energy back and lifted me out of this two year long slump of lethargy, I am following the 16 hour fasting version of bulletproof.

 As for the depression I don't know yet, that appeared intermittently and was an indescribable feeling of rage and helplessness, which I hope doesn't return, if it does I will go and roast myself in the sun or something..

The noticable differences so far are increased energy, greater focus, and my shit no longer stinks like toxic waste.

So far I like it, it's easy to follow & it also suits my coffee addiction.. Cool

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September 30, 2015, 02:10:57 AM
 #1380

I am feeling good again today. Took another 20,000 IU, continuing my strict diet. Actually getting some productive programming coding done this morning.


trollercoaster I advise shifting from that to my diet. I don't think the fasting and monotone diets are healthy long-term. You may get a boost from that initially especially if you've been eating and drinking poorly.

My diet is essentially raw tuna meals, orange or yellow starch sweet potato, raw wild leafy veggies, a cup or two of rice per day, water and probiotics. Soaking, sprouting, skimming off saponins soap while cooking Mung beans then eating over rice (mmmm delicious tastes like butter).

Stop the coffee entirely. Seriously you wonder why you feel depression and lethargic and the answer is caffeine. Substitute hard exercise (jogging is the hardest exercise), as it will kill the cravings.

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