Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[CoinCube]

Are you saying that atheists are not people?  

To me being religious is a sign of weakness. You need to make up stories in your head in order to function.
You need an imaginary friend to get you through the day.

People who are not religious believe in themselves and are not afraid.  If we don't know how something works, we study it and to figure the shit out.

...

By rejecting God you replace him with yourself. You believe in yourself. In so doing you replace the moral law given by God with a malleable and subjective human opinion. You no longer know what is right and can only believe what is right. You can base your belief in evolution, or pleasure, or perhaps even reason.

All of these are flawed but the embrace of reason alone is perhaps the the most insidious.  
Reason fails because Evil is often reasonable.

See:
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/evil-rational

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[BADecker]

Disorder and complexity are not the same.  

Exactly. Complexity is almost exactly the opposite of disorder.

You can have a very complex chaos.

There is no chaos. There is only relative chaos. What this means is, that because of our extremely crude methods of observation, we don't see or understand any more than a tiny fraction of the total amount of complexity that exists. So we call some complexity chaos, when all it is, is complexity that looks like it is chaotic, because we are so remote that we can't see the order in it.

Entropy of the universe is increasing (less energy to do work in a given space), but it does not mean that complexity is decreasing through out the universe.  

However, we don't know this. Everything that is factual that we know, shows us that entropy is causing universal dispersal, diffusion, dissipation, lessening of complexity. All ideas that suggest that complexity is not decreasing, are in theories that are not proven factual.

BTW, your primal cause (God) needs its cause for it to exist.

Not at all. There would have been no entropy if people had not sinned. Everything would have gone on without entropy, perfectly. Our sins are what caused entropy to start. Since the first sin was probably done within the first week of Adam and Eve life, entropy has been around almost from the beginning.

Had there been no sin, everything would have operated by perpetual motion, and there would have been no entropy.

Evolution is a good example how we evolved from simpler, less complex animals, despite the entropy of the system increasing.

Evolution is a nice science fiction story. But it operates entirely opposite of cause and effect. In addition, probability math shows that it is impossible that life exists by evolution - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454732.0.

In addition, evolution is theory. This means that the scientists who work with it clearly express that they don't know that evolution is factual. The few recent lab tests that show that it might be real, can be attributed to cause and effect, or some other form of complex change.

One thing for sure, the energy cannot be created or destroyed.  It just changes from one form to other and spreads out.

That we know of, this is absolutely true. If there wasn't such a thing as a beginning to the universe, entropy would have turned all the material and energy and dimensions into a equilibrious mass of who-knows-what-? long ago.

There is nothing in your posts that would indicate that you could postulate even a scientific hypothesis for the existence of God.

Saying that God is the primal cause, is not proof, it is an assertion.

Entirely wrong. The posts don't say anything about what God is like. I use words like "He" and "Him" rather loosely, because that is what people are used to. From the science we should be calling God something like The Great First Cause, or even simply IT.

Whatever the Complexity is that causes intelligence like man, through thousands of years of cause and effect activity, in untold trillions upon trillions of cause and effect actions, without any provable random effect anywhere, is Something that is way beyond our understanding of, and usage of, the word "God."

In other words, God is so extremely God Almighty, that we don't have the tiniest clue about His tremendous greatness, no matter what we call Him.

He's watching you.

[BADecker]

Disorder and complexity are not the same.  

Exactly. Complexity is almost exactly the opposite of disorder.

You can have a very complex chaos.

There is no chaos. There is only relative chaos. What this means is, that because of our extremely crude methods of observation, we don't see or understand any more than a tiny fraction of the total amount of complexity that exists. So we call some complexity chaos, when all it is, is complexity that looks like it is chaotic, because we are so remote that we can't see the order in it.

Entropy of the universe is increasing (less energy to do work in a given space), but it does not mean that complexity is decreasing through out the universe.  

However, we don't know this. Everything that is factual that we know, shows us that entropy is causing universal dispersal, diffusion, dissipation, lessening of complexity. All ideas that suggest that complexity is not decreasing, are in theories that are not proven factual.

BTW, your primal cause (God) needs its cause for it to exist.

Not at all. There would have been no entropy if people had not sinned. Everything would have gone on without entropy, perfectly. Our sins are what caused entropy to start. Since the first sin was probably done within the first week of Adam and Eve life, entropy has been around almost from the beginning.

Had there been no sin, everything would have operated by perpetual motion, and there would have been no entropy.

Evolution is a good example how we evolved from simpler, less complex animals, despite the entropy of the system increasing.

Evolution is a nice science fiction story. But it operates entirely opposite of cause and effect. In addition, probability math shows that it is impossible that life exists by evolution - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454732.0.

In addition, evolution is theory. This means that the scientists who work with it clearly express that they don't know that evolution is factual. The few recent lab tests that show that it might be real, can be attributed to cause and effect, or some other form of complex change.

One thing for sure, the energy cannot be created or destroyed.  It just changes from one form to other and spreads out.

That we know of, this is absolutely true. If there wasn't such a thing as a beginning to the universe, entropy would have turned all the material and energy and dimensions into a equilibrious mass of who-knows-what-? long ago.

There is nothing in your posts that would indicate that you could postulate even a scientific hypothesis for the existence of God.

Saying that God is the primal cause, is not proof, it is an assertion.

Entirely wrong. The posts don't say anything about what God is like. I use words like "He" and "Him" rather loosely, because that is what people are used to. From the science we should be calling God something like The Great First Cause, or even simply IT.

Whatever the Complexity is that causes intelligence like man, through thousands of years of cause and effect activity, in untold trillions upon trillions of cause and effect actions, without any provable random effect anywhere, is Something that is way beyond our understanding of, and usage of, the word "God."

In other words, God is so extremely God Almighty, that we don't have the tiniest clue about His tremendous greatness, no matter what we call Him.

He's watching you.

It is the other way around.  Nobody is watching you or cares about you.  Nature is cruel.

Sorry to disappoint you.

You change meaning of terms like entropy and complexity to prove to yourself a pre-conceived notion that there is something magical out there.

The reality is that there are unknowns but there is absolutely no reason to believe in magic aka God.

Why have you locked yourself into a state of blindness regarding your understanding of God? Why? The evidence and proof that I express are a small part, and extremely brief wording, of the evidences and proof themselves.

From your standpoint... IF God exists, IF there is some slight doubt in your mind that says you might be wrong, wouldn't it be important to you to find the truth? Look at the evidences I reveal, in detail. Because they absolutely show and prove that God does exist.

You might be able to force yourself to ignore God for a while, but ultimately He will force you to recognize Him. Acknowledge Him willingly while you can. He is your best benefit. Don't turn Him into your enemy.

[BADecker]

Disorder and complexity are not the same.  

Exactly. Complexity is almost exactly the opposite of disorder.

You can have a very complex chaos.

There is no chaos. There is only relative chaos. What this means is, that because of our extremely crude methods of observation, we don't see or understand any more than a tiny fraction of the total amount of complexity that exists. So we call some complexity chaos, when all it is, is complexity that looks like it is chaotic, because we are so remote that we can't see the order in it.

Entropy of the universe is increasing (less energy to do work in a given space), but it does not mean that complexity is decreasing through out the universe.  

However, we don't know this. Everything that is factual that we know, shows us that entropy is causing universal dispersal, diffusion, dissipation, lessening of complexity. All ideas that suggest that complexity is not decreasing, are in theories that are not proven factual.

BTW, your primal cause (God) needs its cause for it to exist.

Not at all. There would have been no entropy if people had not sinned. Everything would have gone on without entropy, perfectly. Our sins are what caused entropy to start. Since the first sin was probably done within the first week of Adam and Eve life, entropy has been around almost from the beginning.

Had there been no sin, everything would have operated by perpetual motion, and there would have been no entropy.

Evolution is a good example how we evolved from simpler, less complex animals, despite the entropy of the system increasing.

Evolution is a nice science fiction story. But it operates entirely opposite of cause and effect. In addition, probability math shows that it is impossible that life exists by evolution - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454732.0.

In addition, evolution is theory. This means that the scientists who work with it clearly express that they don't know that evolution is factual. The few recent lab tests that show that it might be real, can be attributed to cause and effect, or some other form of complex change.

One thing for sure, the energy cannot be created or destroyed.  It just changes from one form to other and spreads out.

That we know of, this is absolutely true. If there wasn't such a thing as a beginning to the universe, entropy would have turned all the material and energy and dimensions into a equilibrious mass of who-knows-what-? long ago.

There is nothing in your posts that would indicate that you could postulate even a scientific hypothesis for the existence of God.

Saying that God is the primal cause, is not proof, it is an assertion.

Entirely wrong. The posts don't say anything about what God is like. I use words like "He" and "Him" rather loosely, because that is what people are used to. From the science we should be calling God something like The Great First Cause, or even simply IT.

Whatever the Complexity is that causes intelligence like man, through thousands of years of cause and effect activity, in untold trillions upon trillions of cause and effect actions, without any provable random effect anywhere, is Something that is way beyond our understanding of, and usage of, the word "God."

In other words, God is so extremely God Almighty, that we don't have the tiniest clue about His tremendous greatness, no matter what we call Him.

He's watching you.

It is the other way around.  Nobody is watching you or cares about you.  Nature is cruel.

Sorry to disappoint you.

You change meaning of terms like entropy and complexity to prove to yourself a pre-conceived notion that there is something magical out there.

The reality is that there are unknowns but there is absolutely no reason to believe in magic aka God.

Why have you locked yourself into a state of blindness regarding your understanding of God? Why? The evidence and proof that I express are a small part, and extremely brief wording, of the evidences and proof themselves.

From your standpoint... IF God exists, IF there is some slight doubt in your mind that says you might be wrong, wouldn't it be important to you to find the truth? Look at the evidences I reveal, in detail. Because they absolutely show and prove that God does exist.

You might be able to force yourself to ignore God for a while, but ultimately He will force you to recognize Him. Acknowledge Him willingly while you can. He is your best benefit. Don't turn Him into your enemy.

BADecker,

You are compensating your insecurities and fears by inventing a concept of God.

The reality is that there is no such thing.  If it were, we would have detected it.

I do not question your devotion to your belief system.   People who believe they are Napoleons or Aliens suffer from the same condition.

You are arguing from ignorance.  If something is unknown, hard to comprehend, it was made by God.  It is a cop-out.

You are afraid of death, and your precious religion provides a mental comfort that there is this wonderful life after death, so that death itself
does not look that bad.  Well, the reality is that death is the end.  There is nothing after it.

Religion was a concept smart apes invented to help them survive.  It united them behind the same idea.  It allowed strangers to co-operate because they believed in the same Gods.  The strangers that believed in the same God were immediately recognized as trustworthy.

This is still happening today.  Jews will help Jews, Muslims will help other Muslims etc. more willingly than people of other religions.  Atheists are the most untrustworthy of them all.

The truth is that secular, scientific mindset is what propels all progress, religions hinder it.

Reality is what it is.  It does not change because we believe in one God or the other.

You have noticed, haven't you, that you don't have any refutation of the scientific proof that I offer, that shows the existence of God? This means that everything you are saying falls into the class of religious cult.

Rather than refuting the science and the simple observations of nature, you go into religious-style arguments, and even pit religion against religion. So, you prove that you are religion-minded, and that you are afraid to get into looking at the proof in detail.

Get into the science that I have shown, and see that God really does exist. Do it now, before He lets you step off the deep end so far that you actually become locked in to your religion-without-science.

[dippididodaday]

@af_newbie  Good points!  You said "We don't know if the universe will end with another Big Collapse [italic mine], followed by Big Bang and the cycle repeats itself." I have a nasty suspicion the originating-and-ending pattern does repeat, and in all forms, even in economic reality. We are first hand witnesses of this.

[BADecker]

...
You have noticed, haven't you, that you don't have any refutation of the scientific proof that I offer, that shows the existence of God? This means that everything you are saying falls into the class of religious cult.

Rather than refuting the science and the simple observations of nature, you go into religious-style arguments, and even pit religion against religion. So, you prove that you are religion-minded, and that you are afraid to get into looking at the proof in detail.

Get into the science that I have shown, and see that God really does exist. Do it now, before He lets you step off the deep end so far that you actually become locked in to your religion-without-science.

You have not provided any proof of God existence.  You said the entropy is increasing and this causes the complexity to decrease.  That is a half truth.  Entropy does not influence complexity.  It is a measure of disorder at the molecular level, a statistical measure.  At the macroscopic level, complexity increases, we, the smart apes are a good example of it.

In the universe entropy increases because of the Big Bang, it will continue to do so until the whole universe reaches the thermodynamic equilibrium.

That is not a proof of your Bronze Age God, that is a proof of a Big Bang or singularity.

We don't know if the universe will end with another Big Collapse, followed by Big Bang and the cycle repeats itself.

The physical laws before the initial inflation of 10 to -42 power seconds after the Big Bang are unknown and will probably be never known.
We have no idea what physical laws drove the universe to the existence we observe today.

A closed universe can be formed from nothing where the positive energies of mass are balanced by the negative energies of the gravitational field, same goes for electrical charges,
so that overall sum of energies is zero in such universe.  So you don't need God (or something else) to form such universe, it can form out of NOTHING.

Saying the Big Bang or a state of low entropy is a Bronze Age God, is a big stretch, wishful thinking.

BTW, people not God of the Bible discovered the laws of thermodynamics.  The laws that you are trying to use to prove the existence of your God :-)

Since your post here is almost, if not exactly, the same as your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17234068#msg17234068, see my response to it at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17235158#msg17235158.

Thanks again for helping to prove that God is real, and that atheism does not exist, and that at best, atheism is only a theory... but probably doesn't have the strength to be even that.

[BADecker]

...
You have noticed, haven't you, that you don't have any refutation of the scientific proof that I offer, that shows the existence of God? This means that everything you are saying falls into the class of religious cult.

Rather than refuting the science and the simple observations of nature, you go into religious-style arguments, and even pit religion against religion. So, you prove that you are religion-minded, and that you are afraid to get into looking at the proof in detail.

Get into the science that I have shown, and see that God really does exist. Do it now, before He lets you step off the deep end so far that you actually become locked in to your religion-without-science.

You have not provided any proof of God existence.  You said the entropy is increasing and this causes the complexity to decrease.  That is a half truth.  Entropy does not influence complexity.  It is a measure of disorder at the molecular level, a statistical measure.  At the macroscopic level, complexity increases, we, the smart apes are a good example of it.

In the universe entropy increases because of the Big Bang, it will continue to do so until the whole universe reaches the thermodynamic equilibrium.

That is not a proof of your Bronze Age God, that is a proof of a Big Bang or singularity.

We don't know if the universe will end with another Big Collapse, followed by Big Bang and the cycle repeats itself.

The physical laws before the initial inflation of 10 to -42 power seconds after the Big Bang are unknown and will probably be never known.
We have no idea what physical laws drove the universe to the existence we observe today.

A closed universe can be formed from nothing where the positive energies of mass are balanced by the negative energies of the gravitational field, same goes for electrical charges,
so that overall sum of energies is zero in such universe.  So you don't need God (or something else) to form such universe, it can form out of NOTHING.

Saying the Big Bang or a state of low entropy is a Bronze Age God, is a big stretch, wishful thinking.

BTW, people not God of the Bible discovered the laws of thermodynamics.  The laws that you are trying to use to prove the existence of your God :-)

Since your post here is almost, if not exactly, the same as your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17234068#msg17234068, see my response to it at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17235158#msg17235158.

Thanks again for helping to prove that God is real, and that atheism does not exist, and that at best, atheism is only a theory... but probably doesn't have the strength to be even that.

Like I said in the other thread.  Seek professional help.  I'm not qualified to help you.

All right. Relax, man. Just because you are all too familiar with that kind of professional help, doesn't mean you need to get all upset.

After all, you have helped me show and prove the existence of God, and that atheism is, at most, only a theory (<<< AT MOST). Doesn’t that make you feel good that you are finally getting to the point where you are learning some reality in your science fiction (science theory) life?

[Shady]

I never had true interest in religion as I'm against most popularized beliefs included... Not all anti though, just preferring local native traditions over the pop in what spread.

It's decent content, but incredibly repetitive which is why I follow advanced sciences in applied nature.

[BADecker]

...
You have noticed, haven't you, that you don't have any refutation of the scientific proof that I offer, that shows the existence of God? This means that everything you are saying falls into the class of religious cult.

Rather than refuting the science and the simple observations of nature, you go into religious-style arguments, and even pit religion against religion. So, you prove that you are religion-minded, and that you are afraid to get into looking at the proof in detail.

Get into the science that I have shown, and see that God really does exist. Do it now, before He lets you step off the deep end so far that you actually become locked in to your religion-without-science.

You have not provided any proof of God existence.  You said the entropy is increasing and this causes the complexity to decrease.  That is a half truth.  Entropy does not influence complexity.  It is a measure of disorder at the molecular level, a statistical measure.  At the macroscopic level, complexity increases, we, the smart apes are a good example of it.

In the universe entropy increases because of the Big Bang, it will continue to do so until the whole universe reaches the thermodynamic equilibrium.

That is not a proof of your Bronze Age God, that is a proof of a Big Bang or singularity.

We don't know if the universe will end with another Big Collapse, followed by Big Bang and the cycle repeats itself.

The physical laws before the initial inflation of 10 to -42 power seconds after the Big Bang are unknown and will probably be never known.
We have no idea what physical laws drove the universe to the existence we observe today.

A closed universe can be formed from nothing where the positive energies of mass are balanced by the negative energies of the gravitational field, same goes for electrical charges,
so that overall sum of energies is zero in such universe.  So you don't need God (or something else) to form such universe, it can form out of NOTHING.

Saying the Big Bang or a state of low entropy is a Bronze Age God, is a big stretch, wishful thinking.

BTW, people not God of the Bible discovered the laws of thermodynamics.  The laws that you are trying to use to prove the existence of your God :-)

Since your post here is almost, if not exactly, the same as your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17234068#msg17234068, see my response to it at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1566146.msg17235158#msg17235158.

Thanks again for helping to prove that God is real, and that atheism does not exist, and that at best, atheism is only a theory... but probably doesn't have the strength to be even that.

Like I said in the other thread.  Seek professional help.  I'm not qualified to help you.

All right. Relax, man. Just because you are all too familiar with that kind of professional help, doesn't mean you need to get all upset.

After all, you have helped me show and prove the existence of God, and that atheism is, at most, only a theory (<<< AT MOST). Doesn’t that make you feel good that you are finally getting to the point where you are learning some reality in your science fiction (science theory) life?

Do you understand that it is you that put labels on us.  I don't believe in something that is not real. Why do you mention labeling people? However, if the shoe fits, wear it. Thank you for finally stating that you do not believe that the Big Bang existed.

You want to call it religion of atheism?  You can call it whatever you want.  I don't care.  I care about the scientific truth and reality. I call atheism religion because it fits the standard dictionary definitions. Since God is scientific truth and reality, why don't you care about Him? You talk like funny farm material.

So there are no ghosts, miracles, satan, demons, angels, life after death, Santa Claus, fairies, Gods, heaven or hell in my world.  You sound like an ostrich with its head in the sand.

[jobach]

I believe in God but not religion

Religion is manipulating people with the name of god , remember inquisitions with the name of god ?


Maybe Religion isn't the best thing but it stops people from total anarchy  , it keeps people calm

[ivanpoldark]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

[igorokavg13]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

I also don't believe in God. Moreover, Amosov made for people more than God, but everyone is talking about God and talking about Amosov I personally knew this great surgeon. Very smart man he was.

[Tyrantt]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

Since religion is mostly geography based and traditinaly based rather than true beliving...

[BADecker]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

Since religion is mostly geography based and traditinaly based rather than true beliving...

The atheist knows that atheism is a lie. How does he know this? Because he doesn't have any proof that God DOESN'T exist. And because there are tons of evidences that suggest that God at least might exist... evidences even in the minds of the atheists.

If atheists were agnostic, they might be truthful. But as atheists, they are liars. As liars, they have a cult going in atheism.

[Indijanos]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

Since religion is mostly geography based and traditinaly based rather than true beliving...

The atheist knows that atheism is a lie. How does he know this? Because he doesn't have any proof that God DOESN'T exist. And because there are tons of evidences that suggest that God at least might exist... evidences even in the minds of the atheists.

If atheists were agnostic, they might be truthful. But as atheists, they are liars. As liars, they have a cult going in atheism.

As much as I can see, you're very active in these religious kinds of threads.

Well I don't believe in any god that is represented in this society but I do believe that there is something out there, something above us, much bigger than us that may have created us but does not have the control over us. Not necessarily a god but a higher being(s).

[shualingfa]

Million law from the heart, heaven and earth are natural! God and God, who can say clearly?

[Buffer Overflow]

The Bible tells us that on his own, nobody can follow the Bible completely and accurately.

I follow the Bible completely because of these two things.

[Karloff]

Not all atheists hate religion. As spoke famous ukrainian surgeon academician Amosov, who was not believer,
- I do not need God, but most of people have an inborn need for faith, and it is normal, i understand and respect that.

Since religion is mostly geography based and traditinaly based rather than true beliving...

The atheist knows that atheism is a lie. How does he know this? Because he doesn't have any proof that God DOESN'T exist. And because there are tons of evidences that suggest that God at least might exist... evidences even in the minds of the atheists.

If atheists were agnostic, they might be truthful. But as atheists, they are liars. As liars, they have a cult going in atheism.

As much as I can see, you're very active in these religious kinds of threads.

Well I don't believe in any god that is represented in this society but I do believe that there is something out there, something above us, much bigger than us that may have created us but does not have the control over us. Not necessarily a god but a higher being(s).

If there was a creature above the people it necessarily would control what it has created. Look at what created by people. Man is always trying to control everything. Even if you can't control it at least attempts to be.

[ekaterina77]

Atheists do not hate religion. It's like a doctor in a mental hospital does not hate her patient and tries to cure him. And atheists trying to explain to believers that their faith in God is a mistake.

[Actualiteit]

Atheists do not hate religion. It's like a doctor in a mental hospital does not hate her patient and tries to cure him. And atheists trying to explain to believers that their faith in God is a mistake.

The way that a lot of atheïsts tell people they're wrong according to them, and the lengths they go to to tell them has akind of... religious vibe to it. Same with the metaphors used, which are, in alot of cases quite degrading.