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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 870450 times)
BADecker
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April 13, 2017, 02:05:06 AM
 #7321

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool
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BADecker
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April 13, 2017, 02:12:13 AM
 #7322

Well, atheists can't hate God. How to fish on their own can not fly into space. Because in the atheistic worldview there is no God, simply no. Therefore, any feelings to non-existent too. So the question is fundamentally wrong.

Well, of course atheists hate God. Here's why.

<snip>
Classic "Atheists hate god" fallacious arguments....
</snip>

Cool

@BADecker

Why do you hate Allah so much?
Why do you hate Ameretat so much?
Why do you hate Xuan Wu so much?
Why do you hate Zeus so much?

Why so much hate towards these gods?


My hate of false gods is not a passion filled hate. Why hate them? They are causing people to be destroyed. Atheists are little different than false gods. They are standing up against the real God. Even if they do not state that they are a god, they are acting the part by attempting to contradict Him. You are stating that you are a god by your life statement as posted in this forum.

Cool
BADecker
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April 13, 2017, 02:16:06 AM
 #7323

Well, atheists can't hate God. How to fish on their own can not fly into space. Because in the atheistic worldview there is no God, simply no. Therefore, any feelings to non-existent too. So the question is fundamentally wrong.

Well, of course atheists hate God. Here's why.

1. Not all religions have a god in their religion.
2. Atheism is a religion.
3. Atheists know that they have limited knowledge, and that God might exist somewhere.
4. This makes it so that atheism is something else, but not atheism by the dictionary definition.
5. Since atheists only try to believe that God does not exist, they have a religion in atheism.
6. Atheists do not like to be controlled by anything.
7. Atheists hate religion because they know they can't get away from being religious, and being controlled by their atheism religion.

Atheism is only some people trying to fight against God. Atheism is not real according to the dictionary definition of it.

Cool

On point. Some people confuse atheism and anti-theism. Which is far from each other. I have been on the belief of the inexistence of a diety before, so I made lots of research. I have been on most local religions and I have found that it is not the existence of a diety is the problem. The problem is on the people who believe on the existence of a diety. I have read the Bible and most of the church history to check on facts and align it to man's known history and have learned a lot. My final point: I now believe in existence of God but my only duty is to preach his existence, and not to be an asshat to shove it on the throats of those who will not believe. That is why most people will hate the idea of God's existence, 'religious' people judge them on their belief, and believe that their god has already waived his judgement upon them. Hypocrites.

Well said!

Nobody can peacefully force the knowledge of God down the throat of another person.

In a forum where topics talk about God, there is all kinds of discussion that is not force.

Cool
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April 13, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
 #7324

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool

Do you believe in the doctrine of election?

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BADecker
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April 13, 2017, 03:19:20 AM
 #7325

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool

Do you believe in the doctrine of election?

Which version of it?    Cool
Ctstrphy
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April 13, 2017, 03:22:14 AM
 #7326

The version that says that there is a finite number of believers, where it has been pre-selected before the creation. And these are the only people who would believe what is the truth.

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BADecker
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April 13, 2017, 03:31:11 AM
 #7327

The version that says that there is a finite number of believers, where it has been pre-selected before the creation. And these are the only people who would believe what is the truth.

That sounds like a good version. God never elects anyone to Hell. He leaves that to the person, himself... even though many do not know that this is what they are doing when they reject God.

Cool
popcorn1
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April 13, 2017, 05:11:51 AM
 #7328

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool
Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

And maybe that's why the vicars keep sticking the fingers up children's butt holes^^^
God forgives all .Even the ones who have magic fingers^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

And don't you Muslims laugh ..

Imam who raped boy: 'The devil made me do this bad act' ... when the doctor asked if he had ever been abused, the boy told him what Walile .. < Child's parents will cover it up in case of shame on family..

Muslim community cover it up like the church did brings shame on the community or family so they hide it..

And don't you Jews laugh..

Brooklyn rabbi charged with sexually abusing teenage boys...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Brooklyn-rabbi-charged-abusing-teenage-boys-gets-60-days-jai...
25 Feb 2016 - A Brooklyn rabbi accused of sexually assaulting several teenage boys was sentenced on Tuesday to 60 days in jail and six years on probation.


YOUR GODS MADE THESE PREACHERS AND THEY WILL ALL BE FORGIVEN FOR HAVING SEX WITH CHILDREN.. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him..

You gather they will pray...                                      < on your children 
alleybuzzy
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April 13, 2017, 06:46:24 AM
 #7329

The reason why atheists hate religion is because in religion, there is a god. Of course, that's why they are called "atheist" it is because they do not believe in ANY god. Another reason is because, we all have different beliefs. The beliefs in church sometimes contradicts the beliefs of the atheist. For example in Christianity, it is illegal to do same-sex marriage or it is against the natural law, while in some atheists, it is right for them that same-sex marriage should be empowered.
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April 13, 2017, 08:55:30 AM
 #7330

Well, atheists can't hate God. How to fish on their own can not fly into space. Because in the atheistic worldview there is no God, simply no. Therefore, any feelings to non-existent too. So the question is fundamentally wrong.

Well, of course atheists hate God. Here's why.

<snip>
Classic "Atheists hate god" fallacious arguments....
</snip>

Cool

@BADecker

Why do you hate Allah so much?
Why do you hate Ameretat so much?
Why do you hate Xuan Wu so much?
Why do you hate Zeus so much?

Why so much hate towards these gods?


My hate of false gods is not a passion filled hate. Why hate them? They are causing people to be destroyed.

Cool

Interesting. Let's look where we're at:

1) You've placed yourself above god, thus making yourself a false god. Check
2) You say you hate false gods. Check
3) You say false gods are causing people to be destroyed. Check

Therefore...

By your logic, you must hate yourself for destroying people.
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Oh dear.. The devil has you well under his wing.



Tyrantt
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April 13, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
 #7331

The reason why atheists hate religion is because in religion, there is a god. Of course, that's why they are called "atheist" it is because they do not believe in ANY god. Another reason is because, we all have different beliefs. The beliefs in church sometimes contradicts the beliefs of the atheist. For example in Christianity, it is illegal to do same-sex marriage or it is against the natural law, while in some atheists, it is right for them that same-sex marriage should be empowered.

atheism and church have different "beliefs"? ypu dont say... same sex marriage isn't something fhat needs to be empowered, its rather something that should be legal, since homosexuality is a completely natural thing and it manifests in all of the animal species. also, id rather have a child growing up in a loving and caring family fhat can provide him love and normal growing up instead of growing up in an abusive christian family or a foster home.
af_newbie
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April 13, 2017, 11:17:49 AM
 #7332

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool
Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

And maybe that's why the vicars keep sticking the fingers up children's butt holes^^^
God forgives all .Even the ones who have magic fingers^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

And don't you Muslims laugh ..

Imam who raped boy: 'The devil made me do this bad act' ... when the doctor asked if he had ever been abused, the boy told him what Walile .. < Child's parents will cover it up in case of shame on family..

Muslim community cover it up like the church did brings shame on the community or family so they hide it..

And don't you Jews laugh..

Brooklyn rabbi charged with sexually abusing teenage boys...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Brooklyn-rabbi-charged-abusing-teenage-boys-gets-60-days-jai...
25 Feb 2016 - A Brooklyn rabbi accused of sexually assaulting several teenage boys was sentenced on Tuesday to 60 days in jail and six years on probation.


YOUR GODS MADE THESE PREACHERS AND THEY WILL ALL BE FORGIVEN FOR HAVING SEX WITH CHILDREN.. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him..

You gather they will pray...                                      < on your children 


The only conclusion I can reach from this is that God/Allah/Yahweh/Jesus were pedophiles themselves.
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April 13, 2017, 11:46:42 AM
 #7333

The reason why atheists hate religion is because in religion, there is a god. Of course, that's why they are called "atheist" it is because they do not believe in ANY god. Another reason is because, we all have different beliefs. The beliefs in church sometimes contradicts the beliefs of the atheist. For example in Christianity, it is illegal to do same-sex marriage or it is against the natural law, while in some atheists, it is right for them that same-sex marriage should be empowered.

There i would agree with you. Because reproduction is one of most important things for all human kind. If we were made differently, well than i would agree on same-sex marriage, but we are not so i don't support it. If we let same-sex marriage to happen, who will reproduce children in future, some gay guys, maybe for two girls its easier if hey have sperm bank, but that is still wrong.

atheism and church have different "beliefs"? ypu dont say... same sex marriage isn't something fhat needs to be empowered, its rather something that should be legal, since homosexuality is a completely natural thing and it manifests in all of the animal species. also, id rather have a child growing up in a loving and caring family fhat can provide him love and normal growing up instead of growing up in an abusive christian family or a foster home.

And i don't agree with you, same-sex marriage should not be legal, as i said in some other post, I know i would not like to grow up with two fathers. Child needs both mother and father love to grow normally, there is difference between love that comes from father and from mother.  But it is on to individual person after 18 years of live with there family if they want to stay or continue on his own path. There are abusive people all around, even within atheistic family, if they decided that you will become doctor, that is it. You must become doctor even if you don't want.
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April 13, 2017, 11:56:50 AM
 #7334

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool
Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

And maybe that's why the vicars keep sticking the fingers up children's butt holes^^^
God forgives all .Even the ones who have magic fingers^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

And don't you Muslims laugh ..

Imam who raped boy: 'The devil made me do this bad act' ... when the doctor asked if he had ever been abused, the boy told him what Walile .. < Child's parents will cover it up in case of shame on family..

Muslim community cover it up like the church did brings shame on the community or family so they hide it..

And don't you Jews laugh..

Brooklyn rabbi charged with sexually abusing teenage boys...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Brooklyn-rabbi-charged-abusing-teenage-boys-gets-60-days-jai...
25 Feb 2016 - A Brooklyn rabbi accused of sexually assaulting several teenage boys was sentenced on Tuesday to 60 days in jail and six years on probation.


YOUR GODS MADE THESE PREACHERS AND THEY WILL ALL BE FORGIVEN FOR HAVING SEX WITH CHILDREN.. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him..

You gather they will pray...                                      < on your children 


The only conclusion I can reach from this is that God/Allah/Yahweh/Jesus were pedophiles themselves.

God can not be a pedophile, because it is unnatural. But all kinds of pseudo preachers may well cover their pedophilia and other perversions under religion.
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April 13, 2017, 01:39:45 PM
 #7335

There is no God. All that said religion is a fairy tale. And there is no hatred of the atheist. Tell me you know at least one case that atheists burned down a Church or beat up a believer? But the war between religions is not uncommon.

I imply by saying that you can back your facts up and not talk gibberish. Because by simply saying so is implying hatred through. And please do some more research. Google Adolf Hitler.

Google "Gott mit uns" you little prick.  These Christian motherfuckers killed 6 million of Jesus's country men, where the fuck was Jesus and his father?

I suggest you do a little more research you little twit.


You have to be denseness, itself. God has always been welcoming people into eternal life when they die out of this death-filled life. Or, if they weren't one of God's believers, He is holding them in stasis for the time of judgment when they will go into the Lake of Fire.

You're gonna die, buddy. But if Jesus returns before you die, it'll be directly into the Lake for you.

Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

Cool
Turn, while you still have time. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him.

And maybe that's why the vicars keep sticking the fingers up children's butt holes^^^
God forgives all .Even the ones who have magic fingers^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

And don't you Muslims laugh ..

Imam who raped boy: 'The devil made me do this bad act' ... when the doctor asked if he had ever been abused, the boy told him what Walile .. < Child's parents will cover it up in case of shame on family..

Muslim community cover it up like the church did brings shame on the community or family so they hide it..

And don't you Jews laugh..

Brooklyn rabbi charged with sexually abusing teenage boys...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Brooklyn-rabbi-charged-abusing-teenage-boys-gets-60-days-jai...
25 Feb 2016 - A Brooklyn rabbi accused of sexually assaulting several teenage boys was sentenced on Tuesday to 60 days in jail and six years on probation.


YOUR GODS MADE THESE PREACHERS AND THEY WILL ALL BE FORGIVEN FOR HAVING SEX WITH CHILDREN.. God accepts anyone who still lives in this life, if they turn to Him..

You gather they will pray...                                      < on your children  


The only conclusion I can reach from this is that God/Allah/Yahweh/Jesus were pedophiles themselves.

God can not be a pedophile, because it is unnatural. But all kinds of pseudo preachers may well cover their pedophilia and other perversions under religion.

He "fucked up" his son pretty good.  At least in the Christian mythology.  Not to mention Joseph who raped Mary (or maybe she was raped by other "distinguished" members of the Jewish society).  Nobody knows.  All we know the child was pregnant and gave birth to the son of "God".

God raped Mary, therefore he is a pedophile.  Case closed. Next.

Now moving on to Islam.  We all know what Muhammad's preference was.  Rape them before they turn 10.
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April 13, 2017, 02:02:06 PM
 #7336

The reason why atheists hate religion is because in religion, there is a god. Of course, that's why they are called "atheist" it is because they do not believe in ANY god. Another reason is because, we all have different beliefs. The beliefs in church sometimes contradicts the beliefs of the atheist. For example in Christianity, it is illegal to do same-sex marriage or it is against the natural law, while in some atheists, it is right for them that same-sex marriage should be empowered.
Maybe no Maybe yes. Atheists believed that god doesn't exist on this world they believed that everything are being created by science by the year past everything is on the people at the moment they generating new generation with the help of technology. it is illegal that they create same sex marriage this is not in the bible.


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April 13, 2017, 02:35:54 PM
 #7337

I don't know how to get a really good conversation with you people because I cannot catch up with your basis of reasoning. I have met a lot of atheists and so far until this day I never had a problem debating with them or cross-checking with facts and scripture. Basing the inexistence of a deity on the scandals of churches? And having statements without any basis like God is a pedophile? On what basis? Have you seen God raping kids? Or have you been into his house and he made you some coffee and you talked about it? I'd rather talk to someone who would have make sense and have a valid conversation with.
He "fucked up" his son pretty good.  At least in the Christian mythology.  Not to mention Joseph who raped Mary (or maybe she was raped by other "distinguished" members of the Jewish society).  Nobody knows.  All we know the child was pregnant and gave birth to the son of "God".
God raped Mary, therefore he is a pedophile.  Case closed. Next.
Now moving on to Islam.  We all know what Muhammad's preference was.  Rape them before they turn 10.
How can you even have a valid statement on a topic which you have just gathered information on heresays. Maybe if you can read the Bible you will clearly understand that Mary was not raped. Or maybe you're no better than radical christians who have their minds closed on their own ideals and  will not even listen to reasoning. How am I not surprised.

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af_newbie
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April 13, 2017, 02:49:36 PM
 #7338

I don't know how to get a really good conversation with you people because I cannot catch up with your basis of reasoning. I have met a lot of atheists and so far until this day I never had a problem debating with them or cross-checking with facts and scripture. Basing the inexistence of a deity on the scandals of churches? And having statements without any basis like God is a pedophile? On what basis? Have you seen God raping kids? Or have you been into his house and he made you some coffee and you talked about it? I'd rather talk to someone who would have make sense and have a valid conversation with.
He "fucked up" his son pretty good.  At least in the Christian mythology.  Not to mention Joseph who raped Mary (or maybe she was raped by other "distinguished" members of the Jewish society).  Nobody knows.  All we know the child was pregnant and gave birth to the son of "God".
God raped Mary, therefore he is a pedophile.  Case closed. Next.
Now moving on to Islam.  We all know what Muhammad's preference was.  Rape them before they turn 10.
How can you even have a valid statement on a topic which you have just gathered information on heresays. Maybe if you can read the Bible you will clearly understand that Mary was not raped. Or maybe you're no better than radical christians who have their minds closed on their own ideals and  will not even listen to reasoning. How am I not surprised.

Having sex with a 13 old is pedophilia. I call it rape because no child at this age has a mental capacity to understand what the 40 year old hairy "God" is doing to her.

You are not going to defend people who have sex with 13 year old children, are you?  If you are, you are as despicable as the priests who were caught red handed.

BTW, In Latin, it is "Veritas omnia vincit" or "Vincit omnia veritas" not "Veritas Omnit Vinci".  So change your signature if you want it to mean something in Latin.
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April 13, 2017, 04:35:16 PM
 #7339

I don't know how to get a really good conversation with you people because I cannot catch up with your basis of reasoning. I have met a lot of atheists and so far until this day I never had a problem debating with them or cross-checking with facts and scripture. Basing the inexistence of a deity on the scandals of churches? And having statements without any basis like God is a pedophile? On what basis? Have you seen God raping kids? Or have you been into his house and he made you some coffee and you talked about it? I'd rather talk to someone who would have make sense and have a valid conversation with.
...
How can you even have a valid statement on a topic which you have just gathered information on heresays. Maybe if you can read the Bible you will clearly understand that Mary was not raped. Or maybe you're no better than radical christians who have their minds closed on their own ideals and  will not even listen to reasoning. How am I not surprised.

Very well said. I find it utterly silly when people point to some horrible behavior of mankind and then say "look at what that guy did who said he believes in God!". Do people honestly believe this is some kind of logical argument?

Mankind is flawed. We have have knowledge of good and with this knowledge we often choose evil even when we should know better.

For every horrific evil committed by the religious I will have no problem finding a matching horror among the secular. This also proves nothing other then the fact that there is much evil in mankind. Religion and God help to elevate us. They help us choose the good. The fact that we often fail even those who profess to be holy is to be expected given our flawed natures.

Religion and Progress

The greatest obstacle to human progress is not a technological hurdle but the evil inherent in ourselves. Humans have knowledge of good and evil and with this knowledge we often choose evil.

Collectivism exists because it employs aggregated force to limit evil especially the forms of evil linked to physical violence. Collectivism is expensive and inefficient but these inefficiencies are less than the cost of unrestrained individualism. Collectivism aggregates capital for the common good and we are far from outgrowing our need for this.

1.   Prehistory required the aggregation of human capital in the form of young warriors willing to fight to protect the tribe.
2.   The Agricultural Age required physical capital in the form of land ownership and a State to protect the land.
3.   The Industrial Age required the aggregation of monetary capital to fund large fixed capital investments and factories.

A farmer in the agricultural age could achieve some protection from theft and violence by arming himself. He could protect himself against a small hostile groups by forming defensive pacts with neighboring farmers. To defend against large scale organized violence, however, requires an army and thus a state.

In 1651 Thomas Hobbes argued for the merits of centralized monarchy. He believed that only absolute monarchy was capable of suppressing the evils of an unrestrained humanity. He described in graphic wording the consequences of a world without monarchy a condition he called the state of nature.

Quote
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. - Thomas Hobbes Leviathan

There may well have been a time in human history when the absolute monarchy of Hobbes was the best available government but Hobbes was writing at the end of that era. England had been transformed from a nation almost completely conquered by the Odin worshiping Great Heathen Army of 865 to a country that protected the legal rights of nobles in the Magna Carta of 1215 to a devoutly Christian nation that formalized the rights of judicial review for common citizens in the 1679 Habeas Corpus act. Hobbes had failed to appreciate the growth of moral capital that allowed for superior forms of government with increased freedom.

Our forefathers understood that it is morality and virtue that allows for freedom a lesson many today have forgotten.

Quote
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin

“Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men; so that we do not depend upon their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.” - James Madison

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” - George Washington

In human interactions we often face a choice between cooperation (reaching a mutually beneficial exchange) and defection (advancement of ourselves to the detriment of our fellow man). The nation state, police, and laws suppress physical violence but do nothing to maintain the morality and virtue that sustain freedom. Collectivism limits some avenues of defection while opening entire new possibilities. New opportunities for defection arise along the entire economic spectrum. Everything from special interest lobbying, to disability scammers, and on a larger scale our entire fiat monetary system are essentially forms of defection allowing the few to profit at the expense of the many. Nation state collectivism has allowed for the creation of great civilizations and yet is entirely unsustainable in its current form.

Quote
"our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it." - A.W. Tozer

The perishing of Western civilization, however, does not mean fragmentation and collapse. Indeed in this instance the opposite appears to be true and collapse looks set to drive us via economic fundamentals and debt into a single world government paradigm for reasons discussed at length elsewhere.

The evolution of the social contract is a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. It is likely that in the near future republics will be consumed by world government, and perhaps someday world government will evolve into decentralized government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. Each iteration increases the sustainable degrees of freedom the system can support. Moral capital is the foundation that allows this progress to occur. For this reason ethical monotheism is the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source since human culture emerged from the stone ages.

Quote
"Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally." - Dennis Prager

The utopia of limited to no government would only be possible for a population constantly striving at all times to be moral. Such a utopia would require all individuals to always act cooperatively, honesty, and transparently. We lack the required moral fiber for anything like this to work at our current juncture in history.

See: Freedom and God for more.



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April 13, 2017, 05:08:08 PM
 #7340

I don't know how to get a really good conversation with you people because I cannot catch up with your basis of reasoning. I have met a lot of atheists and so far until this day I never had a problem debating with them or cross-checking with facts and scripture. Basing the inexistence of a deity on the scandals of churches? And having statements without any basis like God is a pedophile? On what basis? Have you seen God raping kids? Or have you been into his house and he made you some coffee and you talked about it? I'd rather talk to someone who would have make sense and have a valid conversation with.
He "fucked up" his son pretty good.  At least in the Christian mythology.  Not to mention Joseph who raped Mary (or maybe she was raped by other "distinguished" members of the Jewish society).  Nobody knows.  All we know the child was pregnant and gave birth to the son of "God".
God raped Mary, therefore he is a pedophile.  Case closed. Next.
Now moving on to Islam.  We all know what Muhammad's preference was.  Rape them before they turn 10.
How can you even have a valid statement on a topic which you have just gathered information on heresays. Maybe if you can read the Bible you will clearly understand that Mary was not raped. Or maybe you're no better than radical christians who have their minds closed on their own ideals and  will not even listen to reasoning. How am I not surprised.
BUT you religious people said GOD created EVERYTHING?..pedo preachers.

You do realise most religious people have got something wrong with them WHY you ask?
Well they need something to forgive them because most humans wont..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SO WHY WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN WITH CRAZIES..

I hope you do know that a lot off people in the religions want forgiveness AND FOR WHAT?
they wont tell you  THEY ONLY TELL GOD ..   I.E themselves..

And you go here you go i will leave little berty with you today VICAR ..MAGIC FINGERS COME OUT THEN..
Same with all religious preachers..

Now remember not all will be like this.  BUT an awful lot of preachers are getting caught with magic fingers..

Watch magic fingers..

Imam abuses boy - YouTube
Video for imam abuses boy▶ 2:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t36aKTH8ImQ
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