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iamnotback
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December 04, 2016, 11:09:00 AM |
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And then he gets caught and points his finger at you
You are repeating what I already pointed out: The fly in this ointment is that ironclad anonymity against the national security agencies is very dubious. How can you control when the person you bought the ranch from screws up his anonymity and TPTB rubber hose him to force him to reveal the crypto-currency was obtained from you.
Instead I suggest a plausible different strategy...
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iamnotback
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December 04, 2016, 11:09:45 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2016, 11:20:27 AM by iamnotback |
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China Curbs Gold ImportsThis would automatically shift demand to digital gold, aka Bitcoin. If that happens, you can expect China to take action restricting purchases of Bitcoin in some time. So a short and quick raise in bitcoin's price would be followed by a dump.  Don't bet on it. First of all, it will boost smuggling and black market activity. Bitcoin is a niche product, only few people are aware of it as an investment alternative. The direct impact of China news on Bitcoin prices is greatly exaggerated. So I don't expect a rise in BTC price because of it. Even if the scenario you are pointing out becomes reality, restrictions for Bitcoin purchases would not succeed on a large scale, because you can't ban p2p trade. China doesn't need to import BTC since most of the minted BTC is now mined inside of China. Unless China can track ongoing every BTC mined in China by requiring them to be sold and held on regulated exchanges that never allow users to have access to private keys (which would not be Bitcoin any more), then they have no hope of regulating it. If China does basterdize BTC that way, then Bitcoin is dead. And we will just move on to another altcoin. In which case the mining farms in China will be useless door stops. Also China would be shooting its own technology sector in the foot. I just don't think China's think tanks are this stupid. China is powerless to stop crypto-currency. Besides the capital flight via BTC is so damn small so as to be insignificant. The entire market cap of Bitcoin is only a minuscule $12 billion. The daily volume on Bitcoin is $48 million and RNB forex volume is some $5 trillion annually or $14 billion daily. We need a 10 or 100X higher BTC price before we have to worry about it being significant to China's capital flight volumes. ... [more to read] ...
Looks like a serious breakout to ATHs is within months: Note they need the raise the upper limit of block size (while lowering the average block size with the one-time SegWit compression) in order to accommodate surge load and also one of the flaws of Lightning Networks is it can place very high surge load on the blockchain. So although this isn't the fix for the long-term, it is a near-term solution to open the throttle on Bitcoin adoption. |
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vokain
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December 04, 2016, 11:55:12 AM |
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The key problem seems to be to be how you quietly convert the crypto to real-world goods.
I thought about this question awhile ago... critiques welcome 1. Create a business for say, home/auto rentals 2. Crowdfund to raise money for this business to start purchasing assets 3. Accept anonymous money from "donors" 4. Purchase assets Are you 12? Or just never had more money then needed to be taxed? What about anonymous loans? Would that be taxable income? Edit: if no rewards are offered, donations can be considered nontaxed income http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2015/oct/crowdfunding-and-income-taxes.html |
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deisik
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December 04, 2016, 02:22:08 PM |
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And then he gets caught and points his finger at you
You are repeating what I already pointed out: The fly in this ointment is that ironclad anonymity against the national security agencies is very dubious. How can you control when the person you bought the ranch from screws up his anonymity and TPTB rubber hose him to force him to reveal the crypto-currency was obtained from you.
Instead I suggest a plausible different strategy...
Okay, now when we are done with that, let's proceed further How is that essentially different from your ranch in Peru?
Because the purchase of stock can be truly anonymous wherein: 1. The company directors aren't required to know who the stockholders are. Nevada, Wyoming and Delaware offer such. 2. The company directors might know they have deal with you to give you a job, but they don't know how much you personally invested. You just promised them to bring in a lot of investors if they hired you. You might just instead convert a portion of your anonymous crypto-currency to fiat and purchase assets. If your tax residence doesn't tax you on capital gains, then you have nothing to report. The above strategy was to obfuscate the connection between how much crypto-currency you converted to fiat and which addresses were converted I don't see much sense in any of these points if it still boils down to converting a portion of your stash of bitcoins to fiat and then purchasing stocks. It is not that the purchase of stock can or cannot be truly anonymous itself, it is more about converting to fiat which is not anonymous altogether (unless you trade your bitcoins directly for cash), even if you don't have to report your capital gains. Really, why would you have to report anything if you expected to have remained anonymous till then in the first place? So it doesn't actually matter how anonymous is what you are going to do next with the fiat you received from the conversion (namely, purchase stocks) since you are no longer anonymous after that conversion... In other words, the chain is not stronger than its weakest link |
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freshman777
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December 04, 2016, 03:25:46 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2016, 03:38:44 PM by freshman777 |
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What were those tinfoil hats babbling about India and gold upthread...  The country with the highest demand for gold (India), just outlawed gold. Shit just got real. Citizens homes will be searched and 85% of wealth will be confiscated.
They can outlaw it all they want, they can't enforce the ban. People will ignore the stupid law. You're a white American boy, you are trained to respect authority and laws no matter how stupid they are (latinos and blacks in US are better equipped naturally to withstand this bullshit). People in the rest of the world aren't as trustful of their governments and are not inclined to abide by such laws. This particular law is not just stupid, it's designed to take away people's means of living when population already knows the government is corrupt. Rest assured that this outlawing gold together with earlier revoking of large bank notes irreparably undermines Indian government's legitimacy, which is a sure way to spawn all sorts of underground economy means and routes. So yeah, let them bring it on to the faster destruction of the top-down imposed fiat. |
ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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deisik
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December 04, 2016, 05:01:25 PM |
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What were those tinfoil hats babbling about India and gold upthread... The country with the highest demand for gold (India), just outlawed gold. Shit just got real. Citizens homes will be searched and 85% of wealth will be confiscated.
They can outlaw it all they want, they can't enforce the ban. People will ignore the stupid law. You're a white American boy, you are trained to respect authority and laws no matter how stupid they are (latinos and blacks in US are better equipped naturally to withstand this bullshit). People in the rest of the world aren't as trustful of their governments and are not inclined to abide by such laws. This particular law is not just stupid, it's designed to take away people's means of living when population already knows the government is corrupt. Rest assured that this outlawing gold together with earlier revoking of large bank notes irreparably undermines Indian government's legitimacy, which is a sure way to spawn all sorts of underground economy means and routes. So yeah, let them bring it on to the faster destruction of the top-down imposed fiat One should never forbid what one lacks the power to prevent Having said that (or rather repeated after Napoleon), I'm inclined to think that the Indian government may be acting preemptively. That is, they are not actually contributing to the destruction of their fiat currency (since it may be already destructed beyond repair), but sooner trying to take advantage of its inevitable collapse before anyone else or to prevent great masses of Indian population to get away with the confiscatory monetary reform that might follow in the nearest future |
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iamnotback
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December 04, 2016, 05:44:49 PM |
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I don't see much sense in any of these points...
Nevermind. I didn't write it for people who can't comprehend. And I have no obligation to explain it to you. |
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iamnotback
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December 04, 2016, 05:45:13 PM |
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India has not banned gold, there are rumours at this point and nothing more. Shit just got real. Citizens homes will be searched and 85% of wealth will be confiscated.
What they are going door to door looking for gold in a population of 1.3 billion people after giving advance notice they are coming, good luck with that  Until they bribe your neighbors to turn you in. Perhaps you haven't been to the 3rd world and noticed that you don't have much privacy. I live in the Philippines which less densely populated than India, and I promise you I can't even urinate behind a tree without someone seeing me. The government's ban has been very popular in India. The majority support the "fight against black money". You have more than 500 grams of gold, then your neighbor is jealous because you have more than your fair share. Haven't you realized that we live in socialism now. Large quantities of gold are going to be an albatross around your neck. People in the rest of the world aren't as trustful of their governments and are not inclined to abide by such laws.
You don't seem to be in touch with the reality that the world is now "99% versus the 1%", which means everything that is yours is your neighbors. You're a white American boy, you are trained to respect authority
You little chickenshit (and not very smart either). I have been living in the 3rd world since I was 26 years old in 1991. I already challenged you to bring your brave Eastern European asshole to me face, so we can see who is better equipped to kick some ass. I am not pure white. I have enough Cherokee indian blood to make me fucking crazy enough to rip your head off if you piss me off. I have been through enough shit here in the 3rd world to entirely remove the American civility from my attitude when provoked. Try me. And it seem both of you imbeciles forgot that the main point of this thread is not whether you can bury your gold in the ground (I never denied that), but whether you can spend your gold for anything in a collapse scenario. Who the fuck is going to accept your gold in India when the government makes it illegal and is bribing your neighbor to rat on anyone who is "getting more than their fair share by trading in gold". Imbeciles just please back up your pickup trucks and stack more gold. As much as possible, because I am going to be laughing at you when you realize you fucked up big time. (latinos and blacks in US are better equipped naturally to withstand this bullshit)
Perhaps Eastern Europeans with their failed socialist economies admire the Latinos in California: Every Household in California Owes $93,000 to Pay for State Pensions Stanford University has been tracking the cost of pensions in California. So while there is a movement starting to separate from the United States especially since they wanted Hillary, California will soon fall on its face and then will be begging Washington for a handout. The real amount owed by every household in California to cover state pensions jumped to $93,000 in 2015 up from $77,700 per household in 2014. California may be the most socialistic state in the union, so expect them to also be among the first to collapse despite being the fifth largest economy in the world if looked at as their own nation. Go ahead – leave; but take your pensions with you please! There are two categories of fools: (1) are those who believe what isn’t true; and (2) those who refuse to believe what is true. Socialists seem to come in both varieties. Millions of Socialists, have murdered and killed those who disagree with them. The opponents of Marxism have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards this mythical land of perfect harmony and utopia. The net result has only been war and conflict and to prove that one half the world is composed of fools and hypocrites who just want to be taken care-of, yet willing to surrender their independence while pretending to be independent. |
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iamnotback
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December 04, 2016, 05:54:26 PM |
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Subject title is bullshit. India did not outlaw gold. As always was the case, gold can be purchased with after-tax money.
The new thing is that the gov is now demanding that all gold be shown to be purchased with after-tax money. And, apparently, resorting to draconian measures to determine if each person's gold above some threshold has been purchased accordingly.
But it has not made gold illegal.
So when has the Communist government ever stopped at its original limited action? This is only the first step. The leader of India was put there by Goldman Sachs. He is there to move India to electronic currency. Watch and observe how it is done by turning the poor against all forms of cash. |
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freshman777
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December 04, 2016, 06:14:32 PM |
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Oh wow, I don't know where to begin. In all the books I've read on American Indians their elders teach youngsters to remain cool-headed and not scream like old ladies. How much Cherokee blood is in you exactly, it has to be something small and insignificant, you completely missed the education. Maybe books lied and all American Indians are like that, I don't want to believe it. I'd shoot you down in a second if you tried something savage against me as a few percentage of your Cherokee blood calls you to do, there is no time for a dick measuring contest.
Back to gold and India. It should be a warning to the rest of the world, the smart ones will take heed and act upon it.
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ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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deisik
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December 04, 2016, 06:22:26 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2016, 09:06:10 PM by deisik |
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I don't see much sense in any of these points...
Nevermind. I didn't write it for people who can't comprehend. And I have no obligation to explain it to you. People usually lack the skills to explain it (mainly for not fully comprehending it themselves) Nevertheless, I explained it to you why exactly your points don't make a lot of sense as such, and, as I think, I did it in great detail. Note that I didn't pretend that no one can understand it, nor did I shrink from giving a thorough explanation why I'm inclined to think that investing fiat into anything or purchasing anything with it is meaningless after you have converted bitcoins to fiat (since you can no longer stay anonymous with fiat). Indeed, you have no obligation to explain it to me, but this somehow leaves a strong feeling or suspicion that you just don't have anything substantial to say in reply |
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sidhujag
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December 04, 2016, 06:51:03 PM |
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So in other words time to short btc here |
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OROBTC (OP)
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December 04, 2016, 08:58:52 PM |
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... iamnotback, deisik, vokain Yes, it looks like the whole turning BTC into something tangible (at least at scale) really is a problem, and hard to solve. First, buying a ranch in Peru (which might be a special case), automatically puts you in the computers of the tax authorities, which, believe it or not, are much more controlling than the IRS in the USA. Our (small) business, for example, must send monthly EVERY Invoice with various details including customer ID (like our Social Security No.) as well as each item bought, price, address, etc. Rather burdensome. All that is sent on MS Excel spreadsheets. They are super-strict. Second, I agree w/ iamnotback that Tax Havens will soon be out of business! Ouch! * * * I also have a sneaking suspicion that whatever NWO Digital Currency eventually gets adopted will contain "special features" (like code words for important politicians, bankers, etc.) that will allow them to hide their assets. Who knows, but perhaps a Public Key / Private Key system (or whatever variation) may get built in to the new Rothschild World Note System... Great, just great. Our children or grandchildren will be Tax Donkeys...EDIT: Greetings from frosty Prague (back Weds. to America). SLUSH told me that security prevents a visit even to their offices, pity. iamnotback: just STFU about how nice & warm The Philippines is now... |
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iamnotback
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December 05, 2016, 12:46:48 AM |
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Oh wow, I don't know where to begin. In all the books I've read on American Indians their elders teach youngsters to remain cool-headed and not scream like old ladies. How much Cherokee blood is in you exactly, it has to be something small and insignificant, you completely missed the education. Maybe books lied and all American Indians are like that, I don't want to believe it. I'd shoot you down in a second if you tried something savage against me as a few percentage of your Cherokee blood calls you to do, there is no time for a dick measuring contest.
Back to gold and India. It should be a warning to the rest of the world, the smart ones will take heed and act upon it.
Lol, what an imbecile. I guess you read about gold in books too. |
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iamnotback
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December 05, 2016, 12:48:33 AM |
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People usually lack the skills to explain it (mainly for not fully comprehending it themselves)
If that incorrect rationalization makes you feel better, then perhaps that is for the best. They say ignorance is bliss. |
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iamnotback
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December 05, 2016, 12:57:32 AM
Last edit: December 05, 2016, 01:08:54 AM by iamnotback |
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Yes, it looks like the whole turning BTC into something tangible (at least at scale) really is a problem, and hard to solve.
We just explained to you that it is not hard to solve at all. I don't know why you got the entirely opposite meaning from what I wrote. First, buying a ranch in Peru (which might be a special case), automatically puts you in the computers of the tax authorities,
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Second, I agree w/ iamnotback that Tax Havens will soon be out of business! Ouch!
Well we don't know that for sure. Even if so, it doesn't mean we can't minimize our taxes with venue hopping. And how much tangible assets do we really need any way? I get a $100,000 tax exclusion because I live outside the USA more then 335 days a year. I don't even spend $30,000 a year. I also have a sneaking suspicion that whatever NWO Digital Currency eventually gets adopted will contain "special features" (like code words for important politicians, bankers, etc.) that will allow them to hide their assets. Who knows, but perhaps a Public Key / Private Key system (or whatever variation) may get built in to the new Rothschild World Note System...
Great, just great. Our children or grandchildren will be Tax Donkeys...
Our kids are too fucking stupid and support all that socialist crap. So they will reap what they sow. If they wanted to put an end to that they could. Or maybe we can say our kids are smart, because they've already moved on from the physical economy to the virtual one and will embrace the Knowledge Age economy naturally. We'll see... I am not all into worrying about my kids. They have to fight their own battles. If I have enough money to be productive with my life and maybe improve my standard-of-living somewhat, I will be happy. I am more interested in having a lot of assets in the Knowledge Age economy and making an impact therein. Also I am less interested in buying inanimate objects (although spending 5 - 10% of my wealth on the tangible assets might be in order). I'd be more interested in the influence I can have by paying employees. Their taxes are not my concern. I moreover think that by sufficiently accelerating the Knowledge Age economy, the old world bastards will become more and more irrelevant any way. Let them have their stupid SDRs for the old world physical economy, so they will own the dying portion of the economy. We are moving to a higher plane: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg17075048#msg17075048OROBTC, sorry man but I must tell the other tinfoil hats they just don't get it. They are stuck in some old world jail and they choose to stay in it. They wish to fight the socialism head on instead of routing around it. And they are going to be the laughing stock of us who've moved to a higher plane. |
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iamnotback
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December 05, 2016, 01:21:19 AM |
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This "refutation" is based upon the concept that if a virtual currency focuses on something other than micro-transactions it will be shut down by the the "state".
My quoted logic had nothing to do with the "state". Edit: Monero is not even suitable for micro transactions by design, with minimum transaction fees likely to remain around or above 0.01 USD over time in real terms. This is not to say that micro transactions are not a viable market in its own right, but rather than there are likely much better suited solutions for this market. The opportunity for Monero in the micro transactions market may actually be in the on and possible off ramps for these solutions. So for a virtual currency focused on micro transactions Monero is not even a competitor.
I think microtransactions are the big enchilada. And not just monetary microtransactions. Anonymity is so incredibly unrealistic and it is fighting against the socialism. Please see my prior post which was a refutation of the tinfoil hats. I have more debate with them at the following thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1665943.0Although I originally was a tinfoil hat and originally touted the importance of anonymity, I am now coming to the realization that we don't win by hiding from society. We win by changing the economy of society. |
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iamnotback
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December 05, 2016, 01:42:06 AM |
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Ah yes I was thinking it was 500 ounces.
500 grams is much less, but I still doubt the average person owns $20,000 worth of gold.
This will still only have an effect on the very wealthy. Some might buy some Bitcoin, but I assume most are going to hide money in offshore accounts and companies outside their country.
The intended effect is that it will be impractical to use gold as form of tax avoiding cash. You can bury gold in the ground and never use it, because that it no threat at all to the government's desire to tax everything that moves. Have fun eating your gold or watching it sit there useless in the ground while the economic opportunities move on without you. The elite are moving the tangible economy to electronic currency that is tracked for taxes. They will use the poor as a weapon against the middle class. The poor will avidly support increased taxation because the government will promise them free things. In India, the government is recently offering a basic level of free food and medical care system support to the indigent. This is a big deal because in the past 1/3 of Indians only ate once a day. The poor see these increased taxation as ending corruption and funding the support for the poor. They don't realize it is the laying the seeds for tax slavery. But we in the crypto-currency currency arena can offer the poor a better deal than what the government can give them. We can offer them a job in the virtual economy where they can become independently a middle class person. And then they will hate taxes. I am working on this now. Steem(it) was the first (failed) example. We can onboard the billions into crypto-currency by giving them currency when they do work on a social network. We can change the economy of the world. Tinfoil hats are doing nothing. They are stuck in an unimaginative old world fight over tangible resources. Iron used to be a precious metal. Everyone needs to understand we live in an age of surplus and we are moving to a Knowledge Age: You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.
I will be the first to admit I needed a week to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint. The Rise of Knowledge <--- READ THISUnderstand Everything Fundamentally Together these are quite simply the most insightful piece of economic theory I have ever read. If the author is right and I think he is we are all in the midst of a tragedy of epic proportions. It is sad unstoppable and will devastate the lives of much of humanity. ... |
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