Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[jml]

@miner5831

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_charge_a_credit_card_before_shipping_the_product

It says the following:

It is technically legal, but it isn't good business!! Most companies only charge when they ship. It is against VISA and MasterCard's regulations for a merchant to bill their cards prior to shipping.

Contrary to what some sources indicate, the Fair Credit Billing Act does not address if it is legal for a company to charge you before shipping the product. Instead, it makes it illegal to not ship within advertised time period (or 30 days if no expected shipping date is mentioned in the agreement). If a merchant says "this item takes 90 days to ship", then they may bill right away and not have a legal problem if they ship before the 90 day window.

You might want a US based lawyer to confirm this though, but reading on this, BFL have been breaking the Fair Credit Billing Act as they have delayed shipping dates.

More information can be read here http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-fair-credit-billing

Complaints
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) enforces the FCBA for most creditors except banks. If you think a creditor has violated the FCBA, file a complaint with the FTC. https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

You also can sue a creditor who violates the FCBA. If you win, you may be awarded damages, plus twice the amount of any finance charge — as long as it's between $500 and $5,000, or higher amounts if a pattern or practice of violations is established. The court also may order the creditor to pay your attorney's fees and costs.

If possible, hire a lawyer who is willing to accept the amount awarded to you by the court as the entire fee for representing you. Some lawyers may not take your case unless you agree to pay their fee — win or lose — or add to the court-awarded amount if they think it's too low.

[Gator-hex]

If they don't deliver the goods soon you could use this law.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud

You might also like the research the criminal history of Sonny Vleisides https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110786.0

One count of mail fraud, parole ends September 2013, I believe.

[jml]

True, but isn't the CEO already convicted of mail & wire fraud?

[big pete]

If the don't deliver the goods you could use this law.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud

You might also like the research the criminal history of Sonny Vleisides https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110786.0

the BFL's are never coming out, and by the time they do (if they do) they will be as useful as mining as a atom netbook

at least with ATI's you can play games with them when mining becomes too hard

[jml]

I think I'll stick with FPGA mining for now; far safer than ASIC's!

[btcminer021]

If you pay with credit card, you can call the CC company and dispute the charge. They will credit your account and the amount will be removed from your next bill (or they can mail you a check after their investigation). The seller (merchant) almost never wins in an investigation.

[jml]

So what about the customers who have paid with bitcoins? Can anyone offer some input on this if BFL has issued refunds for those who have paid in BTC?

[HUSTLER]

If they are scam why would they no longer accept mini rig orders? That's their biggest pay day.

[jml]

They state that all minirigs have been sold out. Personally, I think the minirig is out of the reach of many typical miners and perhaps they focused more on cheaper variants. But do they exist?

[HUSTLER]

I know. But if they were scam why would they stop taking mini rig money? A scam company would want to bring in a much as possible till the very end. Especially if we're talking about 30K a pop.

[Minor Miner]

They state that all minirigs have been sold out. Personally, I think the minirig is out of the reach of many typical miners and perhaps they focused more on cheaper variants. But do they exist?

They probably pulled the mini rigs because they are not physically possible to make.   Think about how much heat would be coming from 9000W inside that little tin box.    The fans would do nothing (other than fan the flames so to speak)

[jml]

Yes, possibly due to that they underestimated the power needs of a minirig and has poor air circulation. Its just a box with fans

[alexh]

I hope they aren't. A friend of mine acutally purchased stuff for nearly $5000.

[jml]

I would never have invested that amount of money with such large risks. Did he pay via cc or btc?

[InspiredEye]

They state that all minirigs have been sold out. Personally, I think the minirig is out of the reach of many typical miners and perhaps they focused more on cheaper variants. But do they exist?

They probably pulled the mini rigs because they are not physically possible to make.   Think about how much heat would be coming from 9000W inside that little tin box.    The fans would do nothing (other than fan the flames so to speak)

Yep, it's likely due to cooling issues.  I'm planning on running mine via an exotic cooling setup, without the box cover.  Leaning towards an aquarium setup using mineral oil, something like this

[jml]

Nice fish tank! Maybe you can add battery operated fish that swims around for an extra hashing power!

EDIT
====
http://www.amazon.com/Petquarium-Battery-Operated-Animated-Fish/dp/B002NEWCC0

[2x0ninja]

Yep, it's likely due to cooling issues.  I'm planning on running mine via an exotic cooling setup, without the box cover.  Leaning towards an aquarium setup using mineral oil, something like this http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2010/12/mod-of-the-year-2010/g1-1280x1024.jpg

Isn't the problem with mineral oil that you can't cool it off after it heats up, making it a bad idea for a 24/7 machine like a miner?

[jml]

Apparently not what what it says here.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

"Heat generated by the PC is transferred into the mineral oil at a rate over 5 times better than air."

[nathangonmad]

Not a fan of mineral oil cooling. You need such a huge reservoir and even then its not that much better than air. If you really want god cooling get some water blocks and make a water cooling loop.

[JonFocus03]

I was thinking of trying it but still debating on that or just water system.

Jon