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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 378992 times)
jordaninthesky
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May 15, 2013, 04:01:51 AM
 #1201

I openly speculated about the integrity of the process...  (I ordered $2666 in July-August 2012).  They forced a refund upon me and booted me out of my 3xxx and 4,xxx orders of 60 gh/s respectfully just a few days ago.  

Josh said I could vote with my money, but it looks like he did the voting for me. I'm sad and I feel cheated.  They won't talk to me.  =(

After PuertoLibre's fake avalon/dhl shipping notice, (yes, that low can someone's self esteem sink), this is a good joke too:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2100103#msg2100103

Hahaha! That's awesome.

........................
........................
........................

They finally ended up going to Wal-Mart, who has no standards and is used to interacting with trash, and got some tires. As far as I know, the WBC have never been back to McAlester Oklahoma. Wink

That was a long story but I read it anyway.  There's a lot I don't hate about BFL.  But I do feel terribly mislead having been talked into pre-ordering ASICs instead of FPGAs back in July of 2012 because ASICS "are shipping in October", verbatim via e-mail.  And they took my potential (yet directly affiliated) options: bitcoins direclty, ASICminer, or Avalon (which I turned down).  I felt even more mislead that the website claimed that we could do pre-orders because the chips were in the final stage of development.  This, and further investigation lead me to believe that the chips were all we were waiting on.  But then, oh yeah, 8 months later we need to finish prototyping everything else.

Okay, 10 months later, we are waiting on chips again.

Can you tell me why I ought to be happy with WHAT bfl is doing?

My privileged pre-order has turned into an "untouched 'investment'" that has nothing to do with funding BFL's R&D process.

I don't know exactly what your business is or why someone would be waiting out so long for it; but I cannot say that I actually believe that it is a real scenario.  I am intrigued either way, so if you wanted to expound..
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jordaninthesky
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May 15, 2013, 04:09:51 AM
 #1202

I openly speculated about the integrity of the process...  (I ordered $2666 in July-August 2012).  They forced a refund upon me and booted me out of my 3xxx and 4,xxx orders of 60 gh/s respectfully just a few days ago.  

Josh said I could vote with my money, but it looks like he did the voting for me. I'm sad and I feel cheated.  They won't talk to me.  =(

After PuertoLibre's fake avalon/dhl shipping notice, (yes, that low can someone's self esteem sink), this is a good joke too:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2100103#msg2100103

Hahaha! That's awesome. This guy wants to defame the company and do nothing but complain, but then he gets all butthurt when they tell him to take his business elsewhere!

"I hate you and your company so much, but don't you DARE tell me I can't buy your products!" The hypocrisy is overwhelming!

I have, as a business owner myself, had the wonderful satisfaction of telling the very rare disagreeable customer to take their money and get the fuck out. The reaction is always PRICELESS. You can tell that people really believe this "The customer is always right" crap, to mean that they're entitled to behave any way they want, and businesses are obligated to just put up with it.

You're not entitled to force me into an abusive customer/business relationship. If you're unhappy, I'll try and make you a happy customer. If you're just going to be a prick, I'll save us both some time, and you can go be somebody else's problem.

99.999% of all of my customer interactions are amicable, and most 'dissatisfied' customers are easily turned into satisfied customers with very little effort, a little dialogue and compromise on both sides. It doesn't always involve me giving exactly what they asked for in their complaint.

If I have a delay in being able to fill somebody's order, I give them a choice of a refund, or waiting it out. Regardless, the choice is in their hands. If they believe that my product is worth waiting for, they will. If not, they can seek other arrangements. Most rational human beings can understand that. I used to work for a very large computer company (not legally allowed to say who). More than once, I blacklisted idiot customers (business accounts even) from ever being able to place an order, or get phone support ever again (wonder how well it went for them when they had to explain to the boss man why he now no longer had a service contract, or the ability to buy his computers from that company anymore).

No longer in the computer business, but I have a customer who has been waiting on a $2900 order since September (This is a customer who orders $20,000 worth of products a year through me), when the original estimated delivery time was back in December. I CLEARLY underestimated the wait time. Most of this was based off of feedback from the manufacturer, some of it was probably too much optimism on my part. Either way, the result is, it's been 7 months for what was SUPPOSED to take 2 months, and we're still counting down.

Every few weeks, I provide an update on the fact that I'm STILL waiting on a supplier to provide his order to me, and EVERY TIME I offer to refund him if he doesn't feel like waiting anymore. And EVERY TIME, he thanks me for the offer but chooses to continue with his order, as my price is competitive with everybody else and he's not likely to get it much faster anywhere else. Keep in mind that due to government paperwork, that even AFTER his order gets to me, it will still be tied up in bureaucratic red tape for another 3-4 Months, even if it showed up in my hands TODAY.

If, for some reason, he started trolling forums and defaming my business, calling me a scammer, etc, etc. I would write him a refund check, PRONTO, and tell him that his customer privileges have been revoked. Then again, he's not an asshole, so I can't see this ever happening.

I fully support BFL's response to the idiots who want to go around trashing them but also think they are entitled to continue to buy whatever they want from them. The world doesn't owe you anything. BFL doesn't owe you anything. Learn to watch what you say about people that you want to do business with, because business is a two-way street. You have the right to take your business elsewhere, but business owners have the right to send you packing as well. I love it when a company owner has the cajones to remind imbeciles of that fact from time to time.

The Westboro Baptist church went to a small town in Southeastern Oklahoma one time, to spew their hate at whatever random event was happening that day (military funeral, I believe). Somebody cut 2 of their tires.

The WBCers drove all around town on 2 flat tires trying to find a tire shop to buy tires from. Every single tire shop they stopped at recognized them and told them they weren't worthy to be their customers.

They finally ended up going to Wal-Mart, who has no standards and is used to interacting with trash, and got some tires. As far as I know, the WBC have never been back to McAlester Oklahoma. Wink
cool story bro

LOL cool story indeed.  What this customer service superstar seems to overlook is that there is a clear difference between trashing the company with accusations/being a asshole in general and simply asking a few questions.  Josh's conduct in this thread alone is a perfect example of why so many people are upset with BFL.  Questions are asked, and he gets all upset while name calling and raving about how these questions have been answered before and how dare you even ask them....  He can take the time to spew out his negative feelings about the community reaction to the company, but he can't simply paste a link or 2 and point out those answers like a professional.  Because, after all, it's much easier to type out a long bitchy response to someone than it is to hit ctrl+v.  Roll Eyes

Indeed there is a difference. Hence why plenty of people have asked questions, and not had their orders canceled. They aren't canceling orders for every question. They're canceling orders for assholes trashing their business.

I've dealt with plenty of customer questions, and usually do my best to work with them. It's a VEEERRRRY rare occurrence that I tell somebody to GTFO, and it's because they're being an asshole.

We can all see plenty of people who've merely "asked questions" who didn't get their orders canceled, and get blacklisted. So the idea that BFL is canceling orders of those who 'ask questions' is asinine.

And even if they WERE doing so, that's their prerogative. It won't make good business sense, but if they want to cancel every order of any person who asks them a question, they're well within their rights to do so, and you don't have a basis to "Sue or get revenge some other way" as somebody suggested.

If you're gonna talk smack about/cop attitude with a company, be prepared to lose the option to do business with them. If you intend to have a working business relationship with somebody, behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect. Especially if you're in the position of being hosed if they tell you to get lost.

For every one customer that pulls out or gets booted for running his mouth, there are 10 more willing to take his spot. Beggars can't be choosers.

Ok.  I admit, I criticized Josh's PR capability.  I maybe got a little personal/impersonal?  I don't know how he interprets me, but considering that I am all for an audit, I'm not too surprised he considers me a threat either way.
AzureEngineer
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May 15, 2013, 04:11:43 AM
 #1203

on bitminer    there is an alias  realasciminer mining with 5.6 ths  yes ths !!!!!!!

That is a company (ASICminer) and is not affiliated with BFL.

My name was simply a play on "Blue Engineer" from Team Fortress. I am not affiliated with Microsoft or the Azure project.
tiberiandusk
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May 15, 2013, 04:15:54 AM
 #1204

BFL

Big Fucking Lie

Bitcoin Auction House http://www.BitBid.net BTC - 1EwfBVC6BwA6YeqcYZmm3htwykK3MStW6N | LTC - LdBpJJHj4WSAsUqaTbwyJQFiG1tVjo4Uys Don't get Goxed.
jamesgarfield
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May 15, 2013, 04:22:46 AM
 #1205

BFL

Big Fucking Lie
Lol exactly.
charleshoskinson
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May 15, 2013, 04:59:40 AM
 #1206

http://metro.co.uk/2006/11/06/non-invisible-bank-robber-caught-348252/

At least Josh got out of his last job.

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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May 15, 2013, 05:10:16 AM
 #1207

BFL are real cheats. No doubt that they have created the ASICs. but as people point they have no obligation to ship them immediately, instead they can mine their own bitcoins. Now we wait as they make money using our investments.
Exoskeleton
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May 15, 2013, 05:27:55 AM
 #1208


GFL

Good F#cking Luck (Getting your product...)

BSL

Bull S#it Labs
Thorgrim
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May 15, 2013, 05:33:45 AM
 #1209

This is why you're a joke, Mooc.  You keep posting the same shit over and over.  Everyone already knows it, no one cares.

I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feewings by pointing out the fact that you're too stupid to realize that we didn't need new benches to be able to to assemble our units and could use the old ones. I figured any 6 year old child would be able to figure that out, I had no idea you didn't have the cognitive capacity of a pre-schooler.



Haha, as the saying here in my mother country goes: Sounds like someone got up from the bed on the wrong side this morning... Time to turn that frown upside down  Grin

It may look like this douchebag is actually angry, but that is not the case.  It is a trick of a scam artist.

He merely feigns anger to distract attention from the fact that he's lying and refusing to answer questions by putting attention instead on what a douchebag he's acting like.  If attention is shifted to Josh being a colossal douchebag, which in fact he is, he deflects attention from the fact that worse than that, he's a thieving piece of shit.

My thoughts exactly. Use a personal attack to change the subject.

Seems to be a lot of sociopathic behavior coming from BFL

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May 15, 2013, 06:14:29 AM
Last edit: May 15, 2013, 06:40:28 AM by MooC Tals
 #1210

I found this on BFL's forum and i will say it could be just a troll but you can decide for yourself. I posted this here because I believe it relevant to the discussion. I could be wrong about this but I suspect BFL is falling apart at the seems. Who talks to their customers like this? What really strikes me is the customers out of fear of losing out so close to the ship date that they would take crap like this and sit there through humiliation.

Here is the link
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2661-received-mildly-rude-call-bfl.html


Quote
Received a (mildly) rude call from BFL...

    I couldn't reply...it was a voicemail.

    I sort of feel powerless now and that BFL has me by the balls. The call I received over the weekend (won't say who it was) but you can tell they are at their wits end and they just don't care. This person was responding to my e-mails. Basically it was to ask me to stop asking questions because they have a plethora of e-mails to answer.

    I was being accused of asking the same questions...might have had me confused with someone else. Long story short, the questions I ask they have no info for right now and that I should just wait until more info becomes available.

    Fair enough but the rudeness in this reply made me realize how little they care about customers now. I wish I could say that was all there was to the reply, but it got worse. It went on to further add how I'm not the highest paying customer...as if to say I don't matter as much as others. Words were attempted to be used carefully but it was a train wreck of a voicemail that exposed how they truly feel. I won't say what this person was replying to, but it was an olive branch statement I made which is why the rudeness surprised me. I was considering buying more and asked them a few things.

    I think because my rigs cost them a lot more in hardware costs to manufacture now due to the power consumption screw up estimates...it felt like an attempt to make me want to cancel and I feel they would be very happy if I did.

    This post probably doesn't have much purpose as I'm being cryptic to protect who it was that called me. I don't want to start a shit storm. I'm just curious if others have been treated similarly? I understand what they are going through. A lot of people are angry and there are a ton of flames to fan. I'm just a bit surprised.

    What I have taken from this whole experience has been extreme disappointment. When the second generation of ASIC comes out, I think I'll be going to a competitor unless there is an awesome upgrade plan of some kind.

Jesus Christ! what is wrong with this company? Then after a few posts with mixed opinions he responds to the others with is post as a follow up

Quote
Wow people are really assuming they know what my e-mail said and that it had something to do with bitching or something as trivial as wanting a...blue colored board?

Maybe I'm upset because this came from somebody high up over there that I get access in talking to that some others don't. Jody never treated me this way. Even under stress. Except for when I had a hardware issue, I haven't sent many e-mails. And I never follow up saying "why aren't you responding" like many here do I imagine...christ.

I'm getting more than just a "unit". It's funny seeing the posts in here treat me like a kid trading in his GPU's for a single.

Anywho, to go further is an attempt to expose this person. And that wasn't my intent of this thread. I'm not sure what my intent was. Mostly just to mention how both sides are really stressed out. I'm not as big as someone like darkrice (sp?) but I'm up there. So the treatment was, surprising. And that is why I say "disappointing". And why I say they "have me by the balls" because it would be stupid for me to cancel.

I am just disappointed. Especially since I offered more business with them in this very same e-mail. That is probably why I am shocked the most.

edit: After going through the thread BFL_Dave offered an apology for his conduct. Then it was patts on the back for everyone.
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May 15, 2013, 07:31:37 AM
 #1211

There's certainly reason to think BFL is or isn't a scam, but either way we will all know within the month if you ask me. By then Jalapeno's will start popping up or there will be another convenient delay.
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May 15, 2013, 07:51:26 AM
 #1212

There's certainly reason to think BFL is or isn't a scam, but either way we will all know within the month if you ask me. By then Jalapeno's will start popping up or there will be another convenient delay.

This response is why I gave up trying to explain this BSL situation to people. "In a month we will know" is what they want you to think. "In a month we will know" is what people were saying in November 2012. I thought that after the promise to ship (you know, more than 10 units total) in mid-April that there would be a s#it storm in early May...

Nope. People now give BSL another month. Next month I will be hearing "well if they don't deliver by July then we will know for sure".

Is this real? Am I awake? Is this computer on? Am I really reading this post on May 15th 2013? I seriously have to question my reality after this...
MooC Tals
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May 15, 2013, 07:57:27 AM
 #1213

There's certainly reason to think BFL is or isn't a scam, but either way we will all know within the month if you ask me. By then Jalapeno's will start popping up or there will be another convenient delay.

This response is why I gave up trying to explain this BSL situation to people. "In a month we will know" is what they want you to think. "In a month we will know" is what people were saying in November 2012. I thought that after the promise to ship (you know, more than 10 units total) in mid-April that there would be a s#it storm in early May...

Nope. People now give BSL another month. Next month I will be hearing "well if they don't deliver by July then we will know for sure".

Is this real? Am I awake? Is this computer on? Am I really reading this post on May 15th 2013? I seriously have to question my reality after this...

Try this for shits and giggles! Take a snap shot of their webpage where they estimate when shipping might start and see how its changed when the new month comes due. You'll thank me for the laugh later.

Hello is this mic on? Hello!!!
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May 15, 2013, 08:00:24 AM
 #1214

pretty much these guys not gonna return money also saw people on ebay selling off their receipts for these rigs just to get rid of it with no guarantees and people still buying crzy
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May 15, 2013, 09:01:18 AM
 #1215

What I find disconcerting was the post where people seem to be sinking their 401k money into BFL and Bitcoin.


I mean, I don't want to hurt people, but... are they fucking NUTS?
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May 15, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
 #1216

What I find disconcerting was the post where people seem to be sinking their 401k money into BFL and Bitcoin.


I mean, I don't want to hurt people, but... are they fucking NUTS?

I saw some people who invested their 401k into Google, when Yahoo was the big game in town. I also saw people invest in Yahoo when Yahoo was the big game in town.

It was none of my business, and some people's investments that might have looked foolish at the time made them millionaires. And some people's investments that seemed pretty sound at the time made them very poor indeed. Don't worry about where OTHER people invest their money. You might be right about it, or you might be wrong, but ultimately THEY are the ones who benefit/lose, so it's none of your business.

If you don't believe it's a wise investment, don't do it. Don't fret about what other people chose to do with their own money.  Wink

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May 15, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
 #1217

What I find disconcerting was the post where people seem to be sinking their 401k money into BFL and Bitcoin.


I mean, I don't want to hurt people, but... are they fucking NUTS?

I saw some people who invested their 401k into Google, when Yahoo was the big game in town. I also saw people invest in Yahoo when Yahoo was the big game in town.

It was none of my business, and some people's investments that might have looked foolish at the time made them millionaires. And some people's investments that seemed pretty sound at the time made them very poor indeed. Don't worry about where OTHER people invest their money. You might be right about it, or you might be wrong, but ultimately THEY are the ones who benefit/lose, so it's none of your business.

If you don't believe it's a wise investment, don't do it. Don't fret about what other people chose to do with their own money.  Wink


To be honest, I do fret about it. For one reason: They betting it all on one card and if they succeed, they will be the people that will tell other people how they bet it all on one card and won. Then hundreds of others get inspired, invest in the next ENRON and loose all their money.

It is not about being right or wrong (If BFL delivers I think it is a pretty good investment), it is about making smart long term investment choices. And even if you put it all in Bitcoin, I would argue that diversifying is the smartest way to go. Not investing it all in one manufacturer of devices...
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May 15, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
 #1218

Hmm this is interesting, only time will tell though.
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May 15, 2013, 06:18:47 PM
 #1219

F*** BFL!
They are scamming themselves.
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May 15, 2013, 06:19:38 PM
 #1220

Glad I searched around and found this forum before ordering anything from BFL.

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